Dear Friends, Thanks for pointing out that some of the speakers used proprietary software in FSFS conference. It is a serious mistake and I will be taking this up in organising committee of the conference to ensure that this mistake is not repeated.
I talked to the person in charge of the technical track and he said two or three speakers in technical track used proprietary operating system. It seems that they had their development environment setup in their laptops with proprietary OS hence wanted to use their laptop.
Unfortunately no one pointed out this at the venue. Otherwise we could have corrected there itself. Most of the free software activists were spending their time in Policy track and exhibition.
In the policy track, participants objected to speakers when they took position which was not acceptable to free software community.
I request my friends to raise voices when ever you see these kinds of mistakes. By raising your voice and protesting, we will be able to better educate others. Mistakes can be an opportunity for education.
Couple of other points raised in blogs:
1. I dont think it is wrong to show windows like theme in the exhibition. 2. One blogger try to ridicule free software activists as fanatics. Another blogger finds fault in stating that free software is a social movement.
Warm regards Arun
Hi Arun, I guess you are referring to my blog. http://brainstorms.in/?p=243 Kenney's bloghttp://www.kenneyjacob.com/2008/12/12/fsfsin-and-free-software-nonsense/and the flame war going on at ilug Trivandrum http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm/t/6ee4f0d7d60b260b I just wanted convey that there are lots of guys jumping into the bandwagon ( Mainly on policy matters) with out properly understanding the philosophy. They use free software as a propaganda tool and secretly use Closed source. I pointed out at the venue that the JavaFX technology is not available on the free platform. But the speaker quickly wound up and declared it is time for lunch. There were some prominant activists around . No one came forward to support me at the venue.
I think I also have some freedom in pointing out mistakes on my blog. 73s Sunil VU2SWX
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Couple of other points raised in blogs:
- I dont think it is wrong to show windows like theme in the exhibition.
- One blogger try to ridicule free software activists as fanatics. Another
blogger finds fault in stating that free software is a social movement.
Warm regards Arun
Dear Sunil,
war going on at ilug Trivandrum I just wanted convey that there are lots of guys jumping into the bandwagon ( Mainly on policy matters) with out properly understanding the philosophy. They use free software as a propaganda tool and secretly use Closed source.
Yes, it true for any social movement which is becoming mainstream. Every one wants to be seen as free software person even if they dont believe in it.
There is another side to your argument, many are now not able to say anything against free software, even if they are secretly using proprietary software. It is a victory to some extend (not sufficient).
I pointed out at the venue that the JavaFX technology is not available on the free platform. But the speaker quickly wound up and declared it is time
I was under the impression that it a free software. https://openjfx.dev.java.net/
Now I understand that it is only partly free.
for lunch. There were some prominant activists around . No one came forward to support me at the venue.
Next time on dont worry even if there is no other activist around or you are not getting support. If you think what you are doing is correct, raise your voice, protest. At least some of us will be with you and you would have educated many others who were in that hall. I can assure you that you wouldnt have been manhandled.
I think I also have some freedom in pointing out mistakes on my blog.
Absolutely, my objection is not to the issue you raised, but the generalist statements you have made, which only helps to malign all those who are seriously working for the promotion of free software.
with regards, arun
Hi Arun
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
There is another side to your argument, many are now not able to say anything against free software, even if they are secretly using proprietary software. It is a victory to some extend (not sufficient).
It is out of fear and looks Stalinist. We must educate people on the perils rather than secretly using it.
I pointed out at the venue that the JavaFX technology is not available
on
the free platform. But the speaker quickly wound up and declared it is
time
I was under the impression that it a free software. https://openjfx.dev.java.net/
Now I understand that it is only partly free.
Nice to see your statement admitting the folly. I am also looking for Javafx license. Can any of the listers enlighten.
Was there any peer review in selecting topics . Or was it done arbitrarily. I have written another article on closed source papers. See it here. http://brainstorms.in/?p=244 I hope all the listers will agree with me.
for lunch. There were some prominant activists around . No one came
forward
to support me at the venue.
Next time on dont worry even if there is no other activist around or
you are not getting support. If you think what you are doing is correct, raise your voice, protest. At least some of us will be with you and you would have educated many others who were in that hall. I can assure you that you wouldnt have been manhandled.
I feel I am getting lot of flak for pointing it out on my blog. Hope the local "fanatics" won't manhandle me.
I think I also have some freedom in pointing out mistakes on my blog.
Absolutely, my objection is not to the issue you raised, but the generalist
statements you have made, which only helps to malign all those who are seriously working for the promotion of free software.
I did generalize for pointing out the follies. But several people on the lug tvm list feel that I am targeting them. Of late, my interest in FOSS had declined due to my other hobby. Now I am fully charged.:D
73s Sunil VU2SWX
--
I was under the impression that it a free software. https://openjfx.dev.java.net/
Now I understand that it is only partly free.
Nice to see your statement admitting the folly. I am also looking forJavafx license. Can any of the listers enlighten.
See the link above, JavaFX compiler and part of the library is GPLv2.
I did generalize for pointing out the follies. But several people onthe lug tvm list feel that I am targeting them. Of late, my interest in FOSS had declined due to my other hobby. Now I am fully charged.:D
You are welcome.
with regards arun.
Hi,
So it has some proprietary library too. You must ask the gentle man who took the session to clarify which is free and how is the other part licensed.
You didn't answer my second question.
Was there any peer review in selecting topics . Or was it done arbitrarily.
Do you have any clue to it. Sunil
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:19 AM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
I was under the impression that it a free software. https://openjfx.dev.java.net/
See the link above, JavaFX compiler and part of the library is GPLv2.
I did generalize for pointing out the follies. But seve
Hi,
It is interesting to see that partly proprietary java fx got in. I am not asking for the details of tech committee.
Sunil
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:33 AM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Was there any peer review in selecting topics . Or was it done
arbitrarily.
Do you have any clue to it.
There was a program committee for technical presentations.
regards arun
Dear Sunil,
Mistake is mistake and it has to be corrected. It would have been nice if you had joined as a volunteer for the conference. We were just a hand full of people who were doing most of the work at the end of the day. All the committees and officials did not do the sweat job. And it is a fact that technical track was on our lowest priority.
Out of around 16 technical session only one came out to be wrong decisions. Out of nearly 50 panelist who participated in policy session, no one found any major policy issues.
In the exhibition area only issue that was found is one person having a windows laptop in SBT stall. State Bank of Travencore was a sponsor for the event and they were given a stall. They were distributing their publicity materials. One of their staff was having a windows based laptop.
Having windows like theme is not a wrong thing IMHO. Some one asked about streaming technology used. It is giss.tv and as far as we know it is based on free software and ogg format. Video conferencing was with Ekiga.
with warm regards arun.
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Sunil Thomas Thonikuzhiyil vu2swx@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It is interesting to see that partly proprietary java fx got in. I am not asking for the details of tech committee.
Sunil
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:33 AM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Was there any peer review in selecting topics . Or was it done arbitrarily.
Do you have any clue to it.
There was a program committee for technical presentations.
regards arun
Dear Arun, Just a single question...
Mistake is mistake and it has to be corrected. It would have been nice if you had joined as a volunteer for the conference. We were just a hand full of people who were doing most of the work at the end of the day. All the committees and officials did not do the sweat job. And it is a fact that technical track was on our lowest priority.
Why didnt you have the same feeling when you initiated the bloody drama in the name of Novell protest at Cochin conference...????? A hand full of students and teachers were working hard day and night to make the Cochin event a great success... No one like you were there to help them... And at the end of the day, you tried your level best to demoralize them.... At least start thinking in the right direction, for the best of the free software community if you still do not have some other concerns...
Rakesh
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:55 AM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Dear Sunil,
Mistake is mistake and it has to be corrected. It would have been nice if you had joined as a volunteer for the conference. We were just a hand full of people who were doing most of the work at the end of the day. All the committees and officials did not do the sweat job. And it is a fact that technical track was on our lowest priority.
Out of around 16 technical session only one came out to be wrong decisions. Out of nearly 50 panelist who participated in policy session, no one found any major policy issues.
In the exhibition area only issue that was found is one person having a windows laptop in SBT stall. State Bank of Travencore was a sponsor for the event and they were given a stall. They were distributing their publicity materials. One of their staff was having a windows based laptop.
Having windows like theme is not a wrong thing IMHO. Some one asked about streaming technology used. It is giss.tv and as far as we know it is based on free software and ogg format. Video conferencing was with Ekiga.
with warm regards arun.
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Sunil Thomas Thonikuzhiyil vu2swx@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It is interesting to see that partly proprietary java fx got in. I am not asking for the details of tech committee.
Sunil
On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:33 AM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Was there any peer review in selecting topics . Or was it done arbitrarily.
Do you have any clue to it.
There was a program committee for technical presentations.
regards arun
Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
Dear Rakesh,
Why didnt you have the same feeling when you initiated the bloody drama in the name of Novell protest at Cochin conference...?????
What did I do at CUSAT ?
A hand full of students and teachers were working hard day and night to make the Cochin event a great success... No one like you were there to help them...
I would like to appreciate all of them for their efforts. In fact many of the organisers of CUSAT event participated in conference held in Trivandrum. They were part of the organising committee of FSFS conference right from the beginning.
And at the end of the day, you tried your level best to demoralize them....
I am sorry if I tried to demoralize them. But i dont understand how I did that.
As a free software activists I respect freedom of speech. While myself or organisations I belong are not involved in any campaign against novell, I respect the freedom of others to campaign against Novell or even free software. When your freedom of speech is chained what is the point in having free software ?
I did protest against manhandling of Anivar and other free software activists MES college. I still keep that position.
Protest like one that happened in Kochin happened in FSFS also. At least some of us raised voice against those who spoke against the interest of our movement. But none of us manhandled any one. I was happy that Sunil pointed out the mistake. I would have been more happy if he had protested more strongly (Sunil said he did protest and there were no one to support) at the venue and informed the audience about the mistake.
Now, please tell me, what did I do wrong at CUSAT ? Do you think I should have kept silent ? Do you know that I've been locked in a room with people shouting at me and Mr Amarnath Raja (IEEE/InApp) saying that we wont be allowed to go out ? Is this the civilized manner in which a protest should be dealt with ? Why did our friends and fellow organisers did not come to resolve the issue, until we started the protest(against manhandling) ? What actions were taken against those who harassed students from MES who just took photographs of what happened ?
We did not protest against use of proprietary software in the conference(we should have). In e-governance session one speaker, after doing some google research, was telling the audience who difficult it is to use GNU/Linux. I doubt if he used GNU/Linux ever in his life.
And at the end, one of the key organiser started campaigning against me and FSF India for all that happened in CUSAT. Why me and FSF India, there were several others who protested that day, I was just one among them, Ranjith(Lecturar, Barton Hill Engg College), Anil kumar K S( Head E-Gov, Kerala State IT Mission), Pramod, Vimal (SPACE), Anoop (ZYXWare), and many others.
I am willing to correct if you can point out my mistake.
Why FSF India and I became the target ? Time will tell more...
warmly arun.
Dear Arun,I was there in the middle of all these drama happened at Cochin... I was just standing in front of MES Engg college stall when Anivar and his friends started protest... One thing which I want to point here is that, Novell banner was there in the main venue right from the first day... No one including you and Anivar were raising even a single word against it... Anivar also participated in one session as speaker... At the end, just before the end of this Cochin conference, you started protest which seems like a well prepared drama to me... and I am still doubtful about the motivation... Do you think that we all will believe that all of those who created a scene at the end in the name of Novell protest were blind till the last hour of the conference...???? Just because you are not the organizer, you are never supposed to create some ugly scenes there...
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Dear Rakesh,
Why didnt you have the same feeling when you initiated the bloody drama
in
the name of Novell protest at Cochin conference...?????
What did I do at CUSAT ?
I explained a little bit above... But apart from all that, we all are expecting some kind of maturity from the FSF board members who are supposed to lead the entire free software movement in India... But you clearly showed that you are not matured enough even to lead a movement in a primary school... I saw you were initiating all these unnecessary scenes... You were compelling MES students to boycott the conference... Just a question - Do you think that this was organized to destroy the free software movement in India...??? Do you believe that the conference was the result of some conspiracy to weaken the free software movement...???? You tried to chanalise the complete attention to the mistake that happened from the organizers which would have been discussed and corrected internally...(I am not saying that that was not a mistake or that was a silly mistake...) This can happen in any movement at initial stages of its growth that the new volunteers those who are not really strong in ideology commit some mistakes...
A hand full of students and teachers were working hard day and night to
make
the Cochin event a great success... No one like you were there to help them...
I would like to appreciate all of them for their efforts. In fact many of the organisers of CUSAT event participated in conference held in Trivandrum. They were part of the organising committee of FSFS conference right from the beginning.
And at the end of the day, you tried your level best to demoralize
them....
I am sorry if I tried to demoralize them. But i dont understand how I did that.
As a free software activists I respect freedom of speech. While myself or organisations I belong are not involved in any campaign against novell, I respect the freedom of others to campaign against Novell or even free software. When your freedom of speech is chained what is the point in having free software ?
I did protest against manhandling of Anivar and other free software activists MES college. I still keep that position.
Protest like one that happened in Kochin happened in FSFS also. At least some of us raised voice against those who spoke against the interest of our movement. But none of us manhandled any one. I was happy that Sunil pointed out the mistake. I would have been more happy if he had protested more strongly (Sunil said he did protest and there were no one to support) at the venue and informed the audience about the mistake.
Now, please tell me, what did I do wrong at CUSAT ? Do you think I should have kept silent ? Do you know that I've been locked in a room with people shouting at me and Mr Amarnath Raja (IEEE/InApp) saying that we wont be allowed to go out ? Is this the civilized manner in which a protest should be dealt with ? Why did our friends and fellow organisers did not come to resolve the issue, until we started the protest(against manhandling) ? What actions were taken against those who harassed students from MES who just took photographs of what happened ?
We did not protest against use of proprietary software in the conference(we should have). In e-governance session one speaker, after doing some google research, was telling the audience who difficult it is to use GNU/Linux. I doubt if he used GNU/Linux ever in his life.
I was also there when all these happened... Freedom of one should not be to deny the freedom of others... Forcefully sticking banners over the banners of others(those who participated in the exhibition) is not the right freedom... He could have stick the boycott banners at the empty spaces... And again, there were mistakes from the volunteers also, no doubt... But it was not in single direction... Anivar is also supposed to have some kind of maturity than the volunteers those who are newbies to this movement...
And at the end, one of the key organiser started campaigning against
me and FSF India for all that happened in CUSAT. Why me and FSF India, there were several others who protested that day, I was just one among them, Ranjith(Lecturar, Barton Hill Engg College), Anil kumar K S( Head E-Gov, Kerala State IT Mission), Pramod, Vimal (SPACE), Anoop (ZYXWare), and many others.
The answer is again, Arun is not one among thousands to this movement... If you feel so, I have nothing to say...
I am willing to correct if you can point out my mistake.
Why FSF India and I became the target ? Time will tell more...
I am not against FSF India or Arun personally... I am just pointing out some mistakes which the free software community do not want to happen in future... I personally respect FSF India and the work they are doing to spread free software movement all over India... But at the same time I believe that FSF India is also not too high to be criticised... Please take the criticisms in a constructive manner and in the right sense for the best interests of the movement... I am also part of the movement and I believe that only constructive criticism can correct the problems inside and keep it really moving... Hope Arun is getting it in the right sense...
warmly arun.
Rakesh
Dear Rakesh,
No one including you and Anivar were raising even a single word against it...
I reached venue around 12 pm on second day. I was not there on first day.
BTW as I said, I've protested and asked others to protest against attack over freedom of Speech. People like RMS has joined and appreciated Anivar for his stand. (I hope RMS wont be manhandled for supporting the protester ;) Just kidding )
I saw you were initiating all these unnecessary scenes... You were compelling MES students to boycott the conference...
They (MES Students) wanted me to talk to officials so that they can put up a poster which they were putting on their stall, one which was torn down by some of the exhibition organisers. Organisers harassed me as well. I asked MES to take stand as their right to speech has been denied by organisers of exhibition. They said they are afraid, they talked to their college management who. I did not force them once they decided to continue with their stall. You may ask them and their coordinator.
Just a question - Do you think that this was organized to destroy the free software movement in India...???
Absolutely not.
Do you believe that the conference was the result of some conspiracy to weaken the free software movement...????
As far as I understand it is not. Except for some irresponsible acts from the side of the organisers, I believe event was organised with good intentions.
You tried to chanalise the complete attention to the mistake that happened from the organizers which would have been discussed and corrected internally...(I am not saying that that was not a mistake or that was a silly mistake...)
It was something which could have addressed internally if Anil(OSS) or Kiran(FSF India) or others (from organising team) responded when they were requested to intervene and resolve. It was a serious mistake from their side that they did not act and they are not accepting it still and I am being blamed for protesting against the attack !!!
This can happen in any movement at initial stages of its growth that the new volunteers those who are not really strong in ideology commit some mistakes...
Manhandling I dont think is a simple mistake. What ever be the ideology, no one has the freedom to physically attack another person(or we become barbaric). And also organisers of exhibition denied right of other stall owners to put up posters. It is attack over freedom of speech.
I am not against FSF India or Arun personally...
I am just pointing out some mistakes which the free software community do not want to happen in future... I personally respect FSF India and the work they are doing to spread free software movement all over India... But at the same time I believe that FSF India is also not too high to be criticised...
Absolutely yes, I would like to know who you are, may be off list. This is first time I am getting in touch with you. As a free software activists, I am interested in getting in touch.
And I told enough of the issue. I dont have anything more to say. Time will tell more...
with warm regards arun.
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Arun M -
Jayson Joseph Chacko -
Rakesh രാകേഷ് -
Sunil Thomas Thonikuzhiyil -
Sunil Thomas Thonikuzhiyil