27 Mar
2002
27 Mar
'02
2:01 p.m.
Hi,
http://zoyd.tomk32.de/gnu/index.html
http://zoyd.tomk32.de/gnu/boilerplate.html
Two things would help to make a website to look and feel
Indian.
a) text
b) images
The GNU project's philosophy has been content instead of looks.
To achieve this, both text and images should functionally or
non-functionally be a part of the content.
Text could be made Indian by greeting a visitor with a
'Namaskaar' followed by a standard 'Welcome to the Free ....',
projects could have Indian names, like Naba Kumar's Anjuta
and Raju Mathur's VishwaKarma.
Images should be used as sparingly as possible. I don't think
we want to make another one of those Indian portals having
images all over for no reason.
Some pages could contain random images of places/festivals
around the country with a small description of the image.
These images would be contributed by hackers from their own
city/state. Thereby encouraging involvement. Such images would
be put only in pages that are the most viewed instead of all
the pages.
It would be boring to have (fsf|gnu).org.in to be running
phpnuke/slash/squish/zope and the likes.
I volunteer to built the (fsf|gnu).org.in website, both
backend and frontend.
Could someone in the Board or close to it please maintain
a offsite list of the tasks at hand and the volunteers working
at it.
My views on the FSF-I logo and logos in general.
Logos are for easy identification of an entity.
A Logo is similar to a brand. It needs time for people to
associate a logo with an entity. The artwork of a logo must
be such that it can be presented in all kinds of media.
The most tricky and expensive is the print media. There are
very different rules for offset multicolor, digital, screen,
block printing, etc. The logo should not loose it's correctness
and preferrably also it's effectiveness. There should not be
a dependency on color. The GNU head as it is works well for
most cases.
The GNU head will almost never be used alone.
It will be accompanied with the name
'Free Software Foundation of India', on letter heads,
visiting cards, brochures, flyers, etc.
The Linux penguin doesn't have 'Linux' and 'http://www.linux.org'
as a part of it's logo, nor do most logos. It was just a matter
of time that people associated the penguin with 'Linux'.
Making the name of the organisation a part of the logo artwork
is not necessary. The name in a small font size serves no purpose
when the name will appear again somewhere around it.
We have a handsome and well known logo. The more we use it as it
is the better it's for us.
Clarity, correctness and simplicity should be the mantra.
Think about it.
Thanks,
Vinay Pawar,
Pune.
27 Mar
27 Mar
5:11 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 02:01:14PM +0530, Vinay Pawar wrote:
It would be boring to have (fsf|gnu).org.in to be running
phpnuke/slash/squish/zope and the likes.
I volunteer to built the (fsf|gnu).org.in website, both
backend and frontend.
Could someone in the Board or close to it please maintain
a offsite list of the tasks at hand and the volunteers working
at it.
It is so nice to find a volunteer like you. We do need your
services.
Regarding webapplications listed above and your comment, I must
say that I disagree. Reason: It is important to have a
collaborative site which is maintainable by a group of people,
instead of one web master. Suppose if the webmaster leaves, we
will be in no position to maintain the site, because the backend
is not known. When we use applications we follow a standard, and
the content can be syndicated. The reason why we want to use a
product like squishdot is for this purpose. Content grows by
collaboration, classified, searcheable, catalogued, syndicatable,
automatic linking, not from one single page, but from all over
the site etc. In what sense it is boring is not clear to me.
I am also not in favour of toomany custom applications for
FSF-Site. Using a general application is beeter. An example
comes to my mind. the web site www.freeos.com was done in php,
and most stuff was customized by one php guru. After he left the
site was down for months. That should not happen to us.
My views on the FSF-I logo and logos in general.
Logos are for easy identification of an entity.
A Logo is similar to a brand. It needs time for people to
associate a logo with an entity. The artwork of a logo must
be such that it can be presented in all kinds of media.
The most tricky and expensive is the print media. There are
very different rules for offset multicolor, digital, screen,
block printing, etc. The logo should not loose it's correctness
and preferrably also it's effectiveness. There should not be
a dependency on color. The GNU head as it is works well for
most cases.
The GNU head will almost never be used alone.
It will be accompanied with the name
'Free Software Foundation of India', on letter heads,
visiting cards, brochures, flyers, etc.
The Linux penguin doesn't have 'Linux' and 'http://www.linux.org'
as a part of it's logo, nor do most logos. It was just a matter
of time that people associated the penguin with 'Linux'.
Making the name of the organisation a part of the logo artwork
is not necessary. The name in a small font size serves no purpose
when the name will appear again somewhere around it.
We have a handsome and well known logo. The more we use it as it
is the better it's for us.
Clarity, correctness and simplicity should be the mantra.
Think about it.
You are quite right, I agree that the logo need not have any
text. But for that we really need a symbolic figure. Some
thoughts about taking peecock/elephant are good, but they dont go
so easily with GNU. Let us see, I am also searching for ideas.
Nagarjuna
6:17 p.m.
There seems to be a tiny bit of confusion.
I didn't say I would webmaster the website.
I'll built it such that others(including myself)
can maintain/webmaster it, much like the squishdot
kinds allows us to.
And by maintainence I mean articles, news and
other content can be posted/edited/deleted with
a web interface.
I haven't used phpnuke, squishdot, etc.
But I guess it would be tricky to have it generate
HTML like the gnu.org website. Those applications
tend to have the same 3 column look which I find
very boring. All the dynamic magic they do is great
but they're used too much and often when a custom
backend is not feasible and there's no idea for a
particular look'n'feel for the website. If we can
build a backend that is simple and does exactly what
we want it to do, why use squishdot's backend which
might be complex to customise.
I don't understand what kind of 'php guru' would make
something that others can't maintain.
Is there a plan about what the fsf.org.in website
is going to contain.
I hope I'm more clear.
Thank You,
Vinay Pawar,
Pune.
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:11:41 +0530
"Nagarjuna G." <nagarjun(a)hbcse.tifr.res.in> wrote:
...................
Regarding webapplications listed above and your comment, I must
say that I disagree. Reason: It is important to have a
collaborative site which is maintainable by a group of people,
instead of one web master. Suppose if the webmaster leaves, we
will be in no position to maintain the site, because the backend
is not known. When we use applications we follow a standard, and
the content can be syndicated. The reason why we want to use a
product like squishdot is for this purpose. Content grows by
collaboration, classified, searcheable, catalogued, syndicatable,
automatic linking, not from one single page, but from all over
the site etc. In what sense it is boring is not clear to me.
I am also not in favour of toomany custom applications for
FSF-Site. Using a general application is beeter. An example
comes to my mind. the web site www.freeos.com was done in php,
and most stuff was customized by one php guru. After he left the
site was down for months. That should not happen to us.
.................
Nagarjuna
9:06 p.m.
If memory serves me right, Vinay Pawar wrote:
I'll built it such that others(including myself)
can maintain/webmaster it, much like the squishdot
kinds allows us to.
Yes, that's a good idea. I can help with some stuff.
I'm sort of good with <?php?>.
I haven't used phpnuke, squishdot, etc.
But I guess it would be tricky to have it generate
HTML like the gnu.org website.
Are we talking about gnu.org.in or forum.gnu.org.in ?.
The forum uses the defautl squishdot template.
Those applications tend to have the same 3 column
look
which I find very boring.
.......
backend is not feasible and there's no idea for a
particular look'n'feel for the website.
That's where I come in, suggest a good style and I can
try implementing that style.
we want it to do, why use squishdot's backend
which
might be complex to customise.
The cross browser HTML generation is a black art of
CGI programming . Things like CMS (content management systems)
simplify such things.
I don't understand what kind of 'php
guru' would make
something that others can't maintain.
I would have understood if you had said "perl guru" (LAMO !)
Php is a pretty decent language if you use the OO features well.
Is there a plan about what the fsf.org.in website is
going to contain.
Again more doubts. About forum or fsf site ?
Gopal.V
--
The difference between insanity and genius is only measured by success
//===<=>===\\
|| GNU RULEZ ||
\\===<=>===//
9:24 p.m.
If memory serves me right, Vinay Pawar wrote:
HTML like the gnu.org website. Those applications
tend to have the same 3 column look which I find
very boring. All the dynamic magic they do is great
I've got a fresh CVS of Zope & Squishdot and will
try some DTML for the forum. Will report results .
Gopz
--
The difference between insanity and genius is only measured by success
//===<=>===\\
|| GNU RULEZ ||
\\===<=>===//
28 Mar
28 Mar
11:23 a.m.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 06:17:19PM +0530, Vinay Pawar wrote:
There seems to be a tiny bit of confusion.
I didn't say I would webmaster the website.
I'll built it such that others(including myself)
can maintain/webmaster it, much like the squishdot
kinds allows us to.
And by maintainence I mean articles, news and
other content can be posted/edited/deleted with
a web interface.
I haven't used phpnuke, squishdot, etc.
But I guess it would be tricky to have it generate
HTML like the gnu.org website. Those applications
tend to have the same 3 column look which I find
very boring. All the dynamic magic they do is great
but they're used too much and often when a custom
backend is not feasible and there's no idea for a
particular look'n'feel for the website. If we can
build a backend that is simple and does exactly what
we want it to do, why use squishdot's backend which
might be complex to customise.
It is clear now that what you mean by boring. True, the three
colum format is boring. But we can change that, without changing
the squishdot application. As I said earlier, in Zope as in any
OO application the design of the views is independent of the
logic. Then let us discuss what changes we should make to the
design.
Nagarjuna
27 Mar
27 Mar
6:18 p.m.
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:01:14 +0530, Vinay Pawar <zoyd(a)gmx.net> wrote:
It would be boring to have (fsf|gnu).org.in to be
running
phpnuke/slash/squish/zope and the likes.
The present consensus is to use plain html for static content and zope
for dynamic content (such as free software directory, news, events,
ongoing projects etc). The choice of zope for the latter is actually
very appropriate because it enables collaborative development; groups
of authenticated volunteers can contribute entries to the zope
web-applications in an organised manner. (Nagarjuna or Arun will
please correct me if I am wrong here)
As for the choice of squishdot for the forum, is there a need for an
argument? Of course, there may be alternatives, but since it is
already in place, let us accept in and carry on with the real work of
providing content as you have rightly stressed. But I don't understand
what you mean by describing these solutions as "boring."
I volunteer to built the (fsf|gnu).org.in website,
both
backend and frontend.
Could someone in the Board or close to it please maintain
a offsite list of the tasks at hand and the volunteers working
at it.
Vinay, there is no need to involve high level entities :) like the
Board here. We will try and do everything by consensus right here on
this list. I hope you have seen the first post in the archive of this
list for some background.
My views on the FSF-I logo and logos in general.
Logos are for easy identification of an entity.
A Logo is similar to a brand. It needs time for people to
associate a logo with an entity. The artwork of a logo must
be such that it can be presented in all kinds of media.
The most tricky and expensive is the print media. There are
very different rules for offset multicolor, digital, screen,
block printing, etc. The logo should not loose it's correctness
and preferrably also it's effectiveness. There should not be
a dependency on color.
Sure. This point has already been made before.
The GNU head as it is works well for
most cases.
The GNU head will almost never be used alone.
It will be accompanied with the name
'Free Software Foundation of India', on letter heads,
visiting cards, brochures, flyers, etc.
We should have the organisation's name as part of the logo precisely
to make the addition of the organisation's name in text unnecessary!
With the incorporation of the organisation's name and URL the logo
becomes independent and self-contained. We can then, for example,
place just the logo on other websites (of individuals, like minded
organisations etc.) without any need for an accompanying caption. We
can also, for example, make stickers of just the logo. Flyers,
brochures etc then need to have just the logo at the top and it will
serve the purpose of a title and url-referrer without any addition of
text. The advantages are innumerable.
The Linux penguin doesn't have 'Linux' and
'http://www.linux.org'
as a part of it's logo, nor do most logos. It was just a matter
of time that people associated the penguin with 'Linux'.
We are mixing up brands and organisations here. Most organisations'
logos *do* have their names in them. (And a large number of
organisations' logos are actually nothing but a distinct rendering of
their name and nothing else!) Besides, we can't wait for the Indian
public to recognise the Gnu head and automatically associate it with
FSF-I. That would take a really long time indeed. Even when we do
reach that utopian period when people recognise the Gnu head as they
now recognise the Mercedes emblem for example, they wouldn't know
whether to associate it with the GNU project, FSF-America or
FSF-India.
We cannot have a logo which is so completely dependent on accompanying
text to qualify its association. That defeats the purpose of a logo.
--
Khuzaima A. Lakdawala
9:12 p.m.
If memory serves me right, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote:
of authenticated volunteers can contribute entries to
the zope
web-applications in an organised manner. (Nagarjuna or Arun will
please correct me if I am wrong here)
Oops, Authenticated volunteers ?. I think it needs an army of
volunteers to moderate a site it if it gets popular. (which it should).
As for the choice of squishdot for the forum, is there
a need for an
First make it popular, then build the kernel. (oops !).
We will try and do everything by consensus right here
on this list.
As democratic as possible please.
With the incorporation of the organisation's name
and URL the logo
becomes independent and self-contained. We can then, for example,
"The logo says it all".
We are mixing up brands and organisations here. Most
organisations'
logos *do* have their names in them. (And a large number of
one point from me -- GNU is not the logo of FSF .. But we would
like it to be associated to FSF in some way -- so we put it on our
logo !.
Gopal.V
--
The difference between insanity and genius is only measured by success
//===<=>===\\
|| GNU RULEZ ||
\\===<=>===//
28 Mar
28 Mar
11:26 a.m.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 06:18:59PM +0530, Khuzaima A. Lakdawala wrote:
On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:01:14 +0530, Vinay Pawar
<zoyd(a)gmx.net> wrote:
Correct! It is possible for me to give permission to maintain a
directory or even a file to somebody, without giving him/her
total control of the site.
It would be boring to have (fsf|gnu).org.in to be
running
phpnuke/slash/squish/zope and the likes.
The present consensus is to use plain html for static content and zope
for dynamic content (such as free software directory, news, events,
ongoing projects etc). The choice of zope for the latter is actually
very appropriate because it enables collaborative development; groups
of authenticated volunteers can contribute entries to the zope
web-applications in an organised manner. (Nagarjuna or Arun will
please correct me if I am wrong here)
As for the choice of squishdot for the forum, is there a need for an
argument? Of course, there may be alternatives, but since it is
already in place, let us accept in and carry on with the real work of
providing content as you have rightly stressed. But I don't understand
what you mean by describing these solutions as "boring."
If we have time, we should spend it for applications that need to
be developed. A web magazine problem is solved, let us not
reinvent it unless something is seriously wrong with the
available applications.
Nagarjuna
7922
days inactive
7923
days old
8 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Gopal.V -
klak＠giasbm01.vsnl.net.in -
Nagarjuna G. -
Vinay Pawar