Linuxers April 2002

linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in

85 participants
122 discussions

Its all in the head!
by Amol Hatwar 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

Hi, I have been following the pieces on convincing the Govt. to use GNU/Linux very closely. First, the factor of spending US$ is a logical one. Second, use GNU/Linux for most of my work and the learning curve has been steep-but I enjoy it. Ideally the Govt. should use GNU/Linux. But I wonder if the point just ends there. Leave training the babus apart, someone or some pressure has to be put for learning things. Who'll do this? Perhaps we could make a easier to use interface for the babus to use. But many people still doubt the capabilities of loosely connected programmers using the Net to develop real life programs. Linux itself has been through this stage. Its my general observation that many people who do use Linux and related technologies in the ring mainly do so because of the sense of adventure of trying something out thats cheaper, powerful, open and scaleable. Also there is a huge amount of self-motivation involved. On the other hand people generally get attracted to Windoze because of the eye-candy. They say it's more productive. Still, I see people around me in offices and big firms with a Compaq or an MNC brand desktop catching dust (*Kya karu Amol seekhne ko time nahi milta*). I see training camps that are arranged for people to get on to the new electronic system-happy smiles during the lunch and after a day or two everyone snaps back to the old method of work, the lunch digested well. Sometimes its just the other way. Firms think their new software is rancid (*grrr... Amol I can't even enter a mobile number in it*). They go for a new system with guarantees of SLAs and a thousand pages of Requirement Specs and a dozen of prototypes are tested. The thing ships. Somehow people are just not enthusiastic about it anymore. They know deep inside that there's been a mistake somewhere but they refuse to accept it. They still get the work done somehow with a Chandu from the Software Devloper's on permanent deputation in the firm. I have seen most of the projects on Windoze come to this. So I think the issue is far from convincing here. It's more about motivation and taking interest. If we can make the babus feel motivated to make the decision, there will be no reason why they wouldn't make it. Of course, someone will have to make the applications for them probably without any of the above glitches and deliver it in time. Maybe making and supporting applications for a sum will be a place where the almost undoable babu-hunger can be satisfied in someway. I feel this area is a bit more sensitive. Probably because our Govt. can take the responsibilities and shove it on to other peoples backs. The Armed forces have suuferred a plenty because of the glitches higher up. But here, the babus themselves will have to use the things they pay and decide for. No matter what the platform-who will save the babus if they are not motivated? Amol Hatwar.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux.....let the babus use it 1st..;)
by Dinesh Shah 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

Hi, On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Trevor Warren wrote: > can i suggest 1 thing pliss...;) > "A satisfied Customer is the BEST Advertising tool > any enterprise can hire...."...not tru in all cases > tho...;) > > Dude..letz get the babus to use it 1st and DEMO to > them that all their daily server/desktop needs can b > done using Free SOftware.....The industry behind the > services perspective will alwayz b there......ANd > believe me dude... And how do you plan to make them use any thing? > once the Govt sees that Support/Service is > available.....all the aprehensions will be drawn away. > So lets aske for a dept to start Gnu-linuxing ASAP. > The rest we can plan out.... Have you approached any department? > Trevor Warren With regards, -- --Dinesh Shah :-) Shah Micro System dinesh(a)indiamail.com http://dineshah.tripod.com Mobile: 98213-11906

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Problem with Cookies support
by volu gina 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

Hi, Every person in the my organisation does not have internet connectivity provided for them. To allow access to certain websites we have an apache configured which helps us do it. Here is one such configuration for accessing one particular website. When any user needs to access this website he keys his url as http://192.9.200.203 and accesses the website without even knowing that he is accessing the website on the internet since the url will always show up as http://192.9.200.203/xxxx. Below is the config for the same. <VirtualHost 192.9.200.203> ServerName 192.9.200.203 RewriteEngine On RewriteRule ^(.*) http://www.company.com$1 [P,L] ProxyPass / http://www.company.com/ ProxyPassReverse / http://www.company.com/ ProxyRemote http://www.company.com/ http://192.9.200.34:80 </VirtualHost> Now the problem here is this particular website has made cookies support manditory and this has created a lot of problem because every time the user connect and a cookies is sent to this user the cookies is sent with company.com. Since the cookies doesnt get registered every hit of his to this website keeps sending him new cookies. I cannot create a dummy dns entry like local.company.com instead of the ip address 192.9.200.203 because I do not have a local dns server put in place here. Any suggestions as to how can I enable .company.com cookies to work on such a setup. Thanks in Advance. Cheers, Volly. --------------------------------- Download Yahoo! Score Tracker for live cricket scores on your desktop

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[OT] VPN with two invalid IPs
by Amish Mehta 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

Hi, I want to connect my home and office computers(atleast share files, full TCP/IP would be best). But the problem is both computers have invalid IPs 172.16.x.x and I do not have control over gateways to setup VPN(one on in2 cable network, other on star cable network). I can keep both computers on 24 hrs, having access to internet via their local gateways. But I do not know how they will find each other. Currently I manually email and download files but is there a way I can actually FTP to and fro? Amish.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] networking problem
by Tahir Hashmi 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:00:15 ketan shah wrote: > >at one time only one program runs unless we use >multithreading.is there any command in linux which >will run both programs at same time > Run the server, it waits for the client to send requests. Run the client. Period. If your server requires the client to be started _simultaneously_ it's broken. Can you please be more specific about your problem to get more meaningful answers than this one? --- Tahir Hashmi (VSE, NCST) http://www.ncst.ernet.in/~tahir tahir AT ncst DOT ernet DOT in __________________________________ We, the rest of humanity, wish GNU luck and Godspeed See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_02020…

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[commercial] RHCE course material
by Philip S Tellis 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

Does anyone have RHCE course material either soft copy or hard copy, and is willing to share it, please contact me off list.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux
by Dinesh Shah 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

Hi, Here are my thoughts on "what government should do to promote Free and Open Source softwares in India". The Government in most countries are BIG buyers in IT. Being a BIG buyers gives them the leverage vis-a-vis the dictating terms on the vendors. The Indian Government can use this leverage to boost Free and Open Source software by defining purchase policies of their needs. The Government purchases can be classified in to two categories - Defense and Non-Defense IT purchases. The Government can lay down following buying policy in their tendering procedures. Defense Purchases : The tenders for these purchases should ask for solutions rather then a specific product from a specific company. This will provide level playing field to all competing product or service vendors, whether Free/Open Source or Proprietary. The tenders for these purchases should accompany the source code for the products. This needs to be mandatory as it relates to defense and security of the product should be paramount in nature. The security can only be ascertained if the source code is available. Non-Defense Purchases : As with non-defense purchase, the tenders for purchase should ask for solutions rather then a specific product. This tender can have a voluntary clause for providing source code for the product. However, it should mandate that a product which accompanies source code will be preferred over non-availability of source code. If the above policy guide lines are followed as is or with required modifications it will lead to Get superior, robust, scalable and easy to use IT Solution Lower IT acquisition cost for the Government Efficient use of "scares" resources Enhanced SECURITY Possible savings in nett foreign exchange outflow More employment opportunities for the people as focus shifts from products to services. Providing "level playing field" to all vendors Reducing governance and leveraging purchase power of the Government Promotion of Free and Open Source software The same priority should be there for private sector as well. HTH With regards, -- --Dinesh Shah :-) Shah Micro System dinesh(a)indiamail.com http://dineshah.tripod.com Mobile: 98213-11906

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Promoting Linux : Govt and Education, Demo needed
by jitendra 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

I have been in touch with the Mah Government authorities and have found many takers for good ideas , particularly Linux since it is free. However , since I am new to the Linux community, I have not been able to gather the demo capability. I am trying thru a small setup in Powai. I am ready to arrange the demo , even use some BE grad students to work , if someone can help in the following or tell me how exactly to go about it What is urgently needed is 1> OS level : Tiny linux : apparently specifically designed to work on old (even 386) machines. Even if it works on P-I or similar there is good scope to convince schools and Govt to consider adopting. 2> Applications level : If only unicode/ISO standard based editors can be demonstrated with GUI . Similarly spreadsheets. 3> Content level: a> School Educational The government hs come out with a Teachers manual (about 50 pages) which I have a copy of , for the 9th and 10th standard IT course. The manual is shabby by all standards. But the content can be made far better if we adapt the content to Linux based stuff. It contains wordprocessor, Basic language and some smattering of 'internet'. It is in english. The alternative would be a CD based, multimedia rich and video-intensive Cd making teacher feel absolutelly comfortable. It need not be very polished or commercial quality video. b> Governance: some application that can help the rural folks to prepare village population data base and use the same for filling typical forms like birth-certificate, death certificate,request for land-records like 7/12 extract etc. There are about 94 forms that the govt would be keen that people give electronically. Dont presume everyone in the authority will be warm to such happenings. But it is feasible. c> Watershed and mapping: There is a great need for a small-time GIS facilty. We know how severe the water shortage is. At the same time it is known that only 4% of land consumes 70% of irrigation facilities created by dams. Half of nations dams are in maharashtra. The limit is someone (PK Patil ) has the temerity to suggest using sugarcane for cars as alcohol hich will cause further skew use of water and greater shortage of drinking water and thus a greater driving of resources from rural folks to urban folks.The facts , if on maps can be so stunning that such arguments will not be advanced. For that map-making must reach every school and every desktop. Can we localise GRASS or MyWorld(from Northwestern University) . It is only sad that institutions like IITs which have built a lot of software on Public money are unwilling to make their software 'freely' available . I hope some people will respond to this. I have simultaneously taken up a localisation project . It is an humble beginning. ( Refer Loksatta -Arthvrittant of 18 and 25 March for more details) Watch the site sourceforge.net/projects/gnuindia Jitendra

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FUD Against Proprietary software
by abhijeet 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

Hi, This is in light of the current discussion to promote Gnu/Linux/Free Software in India. Microsoft uses the FUD..The Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt propoganda to suppress any form of free software. What we could do here is to spread FUD about illegally using proprietary software. How? Many users don't even know that they are doing something seriously illegal when they use proprietary software without a license. They need to be educated about this, maybe by setting up a few examples. When that happens I believe that users would think twice before choosing software that they are expected to pay for. And suddenly free software would be *the thing*. People knowing about it would be in demand. My point is that by enforcing license rules more stringently (which can be done at the government level) free software would have a lot to gain and we as people using free software should back people trying to enforce license policing. Not only that, I believe we should encourage(help?) them. This way there would be Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt in the mind of a prospective(illegal) user of proprietary software and we will have used M$'s stategy against them in the interest of our community. What say guys? Do you see the point? Though this may sound rather inflammatory, I believe it is important and the time has come that we take a step of the sort. We can make a start, by lets say not co-operating with people using proprietary software. We can talk about making a legal choice and asking people to either pay for a licensed copy of proprietary software or using free software (which would be legal). What that means is that if you own a copy of , lets say M$ Windoze, refuse to share it. And ofcourse if you can, However, I haven't been able to put this point in a manner that would be more conducive to a body like the government and I'm expecting someone on this list will, though it is rather late. It is important that the government see it this way. We can only spread the FUD.The government can enforce it. I hope people on the list see my point ciao abhijeet

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Promoting Linux
by RNS 17 Apr '02

17 Apr '02

Hi group, Trevor good work , but as Keyur said , try not to defame MS ( though they deserve to ) , remember who your audience are ( Somewhere u mentioned M$crosoft-please remove it). Moreover, few stuffs which ppl think makes win score over gnu-linux (atleast on thier desktop ) is user- friendlyness, though this hurdle has been tackled to large extend- ppl dont realize it. I think that has to b stressed more , along with linux strong points like security and upgradibility. Other stuffs seems to b fine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Linuxers April 2002