From akiyer@vsnl.com Sun Oct 21 12:01:10 2001 From: Anand To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Linuxers digest, Vol 1 #239 - 3 msgs Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 12:05:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD13DCA.5010209@vsnl.com> In-Reply-To: <200110191201.f9JC1sEG019570@cc4.tifr.res.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4030492590293733262==" --===============4030492590293733262== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Re: HMI: Making the Browser SCADA Multilingual (Philip S Tellis) > You're reinventing the wheel man. These things already exist. There are already 2_2 language codes for all languages, and html has a lang attribute for all tags. So, your html would be something like this: .....

...

... and so on. Alternately, servers could have content negotiation, based on the Accept-language: header sent by the browser. I won't go into this now. the 2_2 codes are of the format: two letter code for language, optional underscore and two letter code for dialect. en -> english en_US -> us english en_GB -> brit english pt -> portuguese pt_BR -> brazilian portuguese you get the idea I hope. I don't recall where you can get the full list of language codes, but it's out there somewhere. All you have to do, is get your browser to support it. AFAIK, all other browsers already support it. Philip Hello, Thanks for the reply, But I believe that the language code as on date only signifies the character presentations. In case i type "How are you" and the user has a devanagari operating system, it helps in him seeing it as "How are you" But by langcodes, when i type "How are you", the code is passed to the user and he sees it as "AAp kaise hain" in devanagari script. In other words, the entire text gets translated in phrases. Similarly when he types, "main acha hoon", the english initiator of the message sees it as "I am well". I don't think, this can be in any way reinventing the wheel. But such a scheme will facilitate communications in the internet without any language barriers. You can put up your website in english and a chinese person who only knows chinese or an arab who only knows arabic or a Indian who only knows hindi or gujarathi or marathi, can see the contents in his native language. Anand > > > --===============4030492590293733262== Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.html" MIME-Version: 1.0 PGh0bWw+CjxoZWFkPgo8L2hlYWQ+Cjxib2R5Pgo8YmxvY2txdW90ZSB0eXBlPSJjaXRlIiBjaXRl PSJtaWQ6MjAwMTEwMTkxMjAxLmY5SkMxc0VHMDE5NTcwQGNjNC50aWZyLnJlcy5pbiI+CiAgPHBy ZSB3cmFwPSIiPiZuYnNwO1JlOiBITUk6IE1ha2luZyB0aGUgQnJvd3NlciBTQ0FEQSBNdWx0aWxp bmd1YWwgKFBoaWxpcCBTIFRlbGxpcyk8L3ByZT4KICA8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+CiAgPHByZSB3cmFw PSIiPjwhLS0tLT4KWW91J3JlIHJlaW52ZW50aW5nIHRoZSB3aGVlbCBtYW4uICBUaGVzZSB0aGlu Z3MgYWxyZWFkeSBleGlzdC4gIFRoZXJlIAphcmUgYWxyZWFkeSAyXzIgbGFuZ3VhZ2UgY29kZXMg Zm9yIGFsbCBsYW5ndWFnZXMsIGFuZCBodG1sIGhhcyBhIGxhbmcgCmF0dHJpYnV0ZSBmb3IgYWxs IHRhZ3MuICBTbywgeW91ciBodG1sIHdvdWxkIGJlIHNvbWV0aGluZyBsaWtlIHRoaXM6CgombHQ7 aHRtbCBsYW5nPSJlbiImZ3Q7IC4uLi4uCgombHQ7cCBsYW5nPSJlbiImZ3Q7Li4uCiZsdDtwIGxh bmc9ImZyIiZndDsuLi4KCmFuZCBzbyBvbi4KCkFsdGVybmF0ZWx5LCBzZXJ2ZXJzIGNvdWxkIGhh dmUgY29udGVudCBuZWdvdGlhdGlvbiwgYmFzZWQgb24gdGhlIApBY2NlcHQtbGFuZ3VhZ2U6IGhl YWRlciBzZW50IGJ5IHRoZSBicm93c2VyLiAgSSB3b24ndCBnbyBpbnRvIHRoaXMgbm93LgoKdGhl IDJfMiBjb2RlcyBhcmUgb2YgdGhlIGZvcm1hdDoKCnR3byBsZXR0ZXIgY29kZSBmb3IgbGFuZ3Vh Z2UsIG9wdGlvbmFsIHVuZGVyc2NvcmUgYW5kIHR3byBsZXR0ZXIgY29kZSAKZm9yIGRpYWxlY3Qu CgplbiAgICAtJmd0OyAgZW5nbGlzaAplbl9VUyAtJmd0OyAgdXMgZW5nbGlzaAplbl9HQiAtJmd0 OyAgYnJpdCBlbmdsaXNoCnB0ICAgIC0mZ3Q7ICBwb3J0dWd1ZXNlCnB0X0JSIC0mZ3Q7ICBicmF6 aWxpYW4gcG9ydHVndWVzZQoKeW91IGdldCB0aGUgaWRlYSBJIGhvcGUuICBJIGRvbid0IHJlY2Fs bCB3aGVyZSB5b3UgY2FuIGdldCB0aGUgZnVsbCBsaXN0IApvZiBsYW5ndWFnZSBjb2RlcywgYnV0 IGl0J3Mgb3V0IHRoZXJlIHNvbWV3aGVyZS4KCkFsbCB5b3UgaGF2ZSB0byBkbywgaXMgZ2V0IHlv dXIgYnJvd3NlciB0byBzdXBwb3J0IGl0LiAgQUZBSUssIGFsbCBvdGhlciAKYnJvd3NlcnMgYWxy ZWFkeSBzdXBwb3J0IGl0LgoKUGhpbGlwPC9wcmU+CkhlbGxvLDxicj4KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUg cmVwbHksPGJyPgogIDxicj4KQnV0IEkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBsYW5ndWFnZSBjb2RlIGFz IG9uIGRhdGUgb25seSBzaWduaWZpZXMgdGhlIGNoYXJhY3RlcgpwcmVzZW50YXRpb25zLiBJbiBj YXNlIGkgdHlwZSAiSG93IGFyZSB5b3UiIGFuZCB0aGUgdXNlciBoYXMgYSBkZXZhbmFnYXJpCm9w ZXJhdGluZyBzeXN0ZW0sIGl0IGhlbHBzIGluIGhpbSBzZWVpbmcgaXQgYXMgIkhvdyBhcmUgeW91 Ijxicj4KICA8YnI+CkJ1dCBieSBsYW5nY29kZXMsIHdoZW4gaSB0eXBlICJIb3cgYXJlIHlvdSIs IHRoZSBjb2RlIGlzIHBhc3NlZCB0byB0aGUgdXNlcgphbmQgaGUgc2VlcyBpdCBhczxicj4KIkFB cCBrYWlzZSBoYWluIiBpbiBkZXZhbmFnYXJpIHNjcmlwdC48YnI+CiAgPGJyPgpJbiBvdGhlciB3 b3JkcywgdGhlIGVudGlyZSB0ZXh0IGdldHMgdHJhbnNsYXRlZCBpbiBwaHJhc2VzLjxicj4KICA8 YnI+ClNpbWlsYXJseSB3aGVuIGhlIHR5cGVzLCAibWFpbiBhY2hhIGhvb24iLCB0aGUgZW5nbGlz aCBpbml0aWF0b3Igb2YgdGhlIG1lc3NhZ2UKc2VlcyBpdCBhcyAiSSBhbSB3ZWxsIi48YnI+CiAg PGJyPgpJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rLCB0aGlzIGNhbiBiZSBpbiBhbnkgd2F5IHJlaW52ZW50aW5nIHRo ZSB3aGVlbC48YnI+CkJ1dCBzdWNoIGEgc2NoZW1lIHdpbGwgZmFjaWxpdGF0ZSBjb21tdW5pY2F0 aW9ucyBpbiB0aGUgaW50ZXJuZXQgd2l0aG91dAphbnkgbGFuZ3VhZ2UgYmFycmllcnMuPGJyPgog IDxicj4KWW91IGNhbiBwdXQgdXAgeW91ciB3ZWJzaXRlIGluIGVuZ2xpc2ggYW5kIGEgY2hpbmVz ZSBwZXJzb24gd2hvIG9ubHkga25vd3MKY2hpbmVzZSBvciBhbiBhcmFiIHdobyBvbmx5IGtub3dz IGFyYWJpYyBvciBhIEluZGlhbiB3aG8gb25seSBrbm93cyBoaW5kaQpvciBndWphcmF0aGkgb3Ig bWFyYXRoaSwgY2FuIHNlZSB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgaW4gaGlzIG5hdGl2ZSBsYW5ndWFnZS48YnI+ CiAgPGJyPgpBbmFuZDxicj4KICA8YmxvY2txdW90ZSB0eXBlPSJjaXRlIiBjaXRlPSJtaWQ6MjAw MTEwMTkxMjAxLmY5SkMxc0VHMDE5NTcwQGNjNC50aWZyLnJlcy5pbiI+CiAgICA8cHJlIHdyYXA9 IiI+PGJyPiAgIDwvcHJlPgogICAgPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPgogICAgPGJyPgogICAgPC9ib2R5Pgog ICAgPC9odG1sPgo= --===============4030492590293733262==-- From philip.tellis@iname.com Sun Oct 21 13:09:17 2001 From: Philip S Tellis To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Linuxers digest, Vol 1 #239 - 3 msgs Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:10:06 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3BD13DCA.5010209@vsnl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8933089209874235812==" --===============8933089209874235812== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Anand wrote: > But by langcodes, when i type "How are you", the code is passed to the > user and he sees it as > "AAp kaise hain" in devanagari script. > > In other words, the entire text gets translated in phrases. Yes, I got that on the second reading, but I don't think it's technically feasible. At NCST, we are doing a lot of work on natural language processing, and have some idea of the tasks required. My thought would be to implement it on the server and use multiviews to send the correct content. Since I have some time now, I'll go into details. When a browser makes a request to a server, it sends in the header lines like Accept-encoding and Accept-language: In the Accept-language header, it specifies a list of languages in descending order of preference in which it would like the content. For example, I may set my browser to request content in the order en fr es it de nl When I request a file called say content.html, the request to the server looks like this: GET /content.html HTTP/1.0 Accept-language: en fr es it de nl ... Let's say the server is configured with multiviews. It notices that the browser would like english content if possible, for content.html. It looks for a file called content.html.en, and if found, returns that as content.html. If not found, it looks for a file called content.html.fr, and proceeds until the end of the list, after which, it returns the default content.html that was present. Typically, the content developer would have to create content in all these languages, but, using something like babel fish, or the tools we develop at NCST, the server can be made to automatically create content for all pages based on the language required. We still have the problem of a single page having different content. This can be solved by actually specifying which content to use on the server side, using something like SSI. In any case, I do not think that this should be implemented at the client side at all. Storing a list of common phrases is not sufficient, as uncommon phrases are more common on the Internet. I know that sounds weird, but if you think about it, you'll notice that the two uses of common refer to different things. Philip -- Refreshed by a brief blackout, I got to my feet and went next door. -- Martin Amis, _Money_ Visit my webpage at http://www.ncst.ernet.in/~philip/ Read my writings at http://www.ncst.ernet.in/~philip/writings/ MSN philiptellis Yahoo! philiptellis AIM philiptellis ICQ 129711328 --===============8933089209874235812==-- From martin@konark.ncst.ernet.in Sun Oct 21 13:09:54 2001 From: Sumant Martin Desaraj To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Linuxers digest, Vol 1 #239 - 3 msgs Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:18:10 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3BD13DCA.5010209@vsnl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1763927407008007516==" --===============1763927407008007516== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > But by langcodes, when i type "How are you", the code is passed to the > user and he sees it as > "AAp kaise hain" in devanagari script. That will involve tranlation and translation is pretty tough, not to say tough to achieve under real time. Also say ur browser supports 5 languages, then u gotta have 20 (5 x 4)translation engines. one way to get around this complexity will be to convert the input language to a language independent intermediate format and then from this intermediate format to the final language. in this case you just gotta have 10 translation engines, and the savings get greater as you start supporting more languages. There is work being done for developing an intermediate languae (UNL, Unified Natural Language). But this brings along problems of its own. In India IITB is involved in developing engines for Hindi to UNL and viceversa. regards, Martin. --===============1763927407008007516==-- From navin_dhanuka@yahoo.com Tue Oct 23 16:14:52 2001 From: Navin Dhanuka To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: [ILUG-BOM] :::SRPMS ? ::: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:15:05 +0000 Message-ID: <003c01c15b54$efee8010$1c00005a@redhat> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1554727196771357646==" --===============1554727196771357646== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, What is SRPMS? Navin Dhanuka _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com --===============1554727196771357646==-- From philip.tellis@iname.com Tue Oct 23 16:28:12 2001 From: Philip S Tellis To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] :::SRPMS ? ::: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:29:02 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <003c01c15b54$efee8010$1c00005a@redhat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1566201086269626349==" --===============1566201086269626349== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Navin Dhanuka wrote: > What is SRPMS? A source rpm. It contains the source code, with all patches. When installed, only the source is installed. You have to do rebuild to make the packages. man rpm. Philip -- A successful [software] tool is one that was used to do something undreamed of by its author. -- S. C. Johnson Visit my webpage at http://www.ncst.ernet.in/~philip/ Read my writings at http://www.ncst.ernet.in/~philip/writings/ MSN philiptellis Yahoo! philiptellis AIM philiptellis ICQ 129711328 --===============1566201086269626349==-- From pankaj@yugandhar.ncst.ernet.in Tue Oct 23 16:38:31 2001 From: Pankaj Jangid To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] :::SRPMS ? ::: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:39:03 +0000 Message-ID: <20011023163755.B4203@ashoka.ncst.ernet.in> In-Reply-To: <003c01c15b54$efee8010$1c00005a@redhat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3506798895590147385==" --===============3506798895590147385== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, Oct 23, 2001 at 05:24:48AM +0530, Navin Dhanuka wrote: > What is SRPMS? source RPMS -- Pankaj Jangid National Centre for Software Technology Alt-Email-ID : pankaj(a)ncst.ernet.in Yahoo-msnger : pankaj_jangid GPG Public Key : http://ashoka.ncst.ernet.in/~pankaj/gpg.txt --===============3506798895590147385== Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="attachment.sig" MIME-Version: 1.0 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogR251UEcgdjEuMC42IChHTlUv TGludXgpCgppRDhEQlFFNzFVK0w0dDQwbWlQQi9sNFJBcyt2QUo5YTFrN0dlQjN3ZU9yNkVHM3VB QVpnN0EreGxBQ2VOSkU5CnRJeitGOUFjRU9hcTV2ZzV3cEJuUHdVPQo9aGo2RQotLS0tLUVORCBQ R1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0K --===============3506798895590147385==-- From mitul@mitul.com Tue Oct 23 16:51:54 2001 From: Mitul Limbani To: linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] :::SRPMS ? ::: Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 16:56:02 +0000 Message-ID: <20011023112316.26195.qmail@ns7.nttindia.com> In-Reply-To: <003c01c15b54$efee8010$1c00005a@redhat> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3213964647373206941==" --===============3213964647373206941== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Navin SRPMS = Source RPMS -Mitul Limbani (mitul 2 mitul.com) Navin Dhanuka writes: > Hi, > > What is SRPMS? > > > > Navin Dhanuka > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers > --===============3213964647373206941==--