Hi Gurus,
From: Philip S Tellis
You should probably look at HTML::Template for your HTML Templates, and PDF::Template for your PDF Templates.
As what my reading goes about this query is when to use LAMP and when J2EE?? For this, many of the Gurus suggested that for mid/small size projects, the best option available is LAMP over J2EE and for bigger enterprise applications, go for J2EE.
So, my question here is - the person who wanted to get this for some school database for managing reports and all, how much feasible to use this LAMP? As may be currently he'll implement it for some standards like 9th and 10th...but later it might need to generalised for the whole school. Similar situation can happen with any other application, where we might start off with LAMP considering it as mid/small project, but later when it need to work out on a bigger scale, how much feasible it's to put an effort on portaility of the application? Just wanted to knw the effort estimates for scaling general LAMP application (apprxly. percent of time) over the application which has been developed in J2EE.
Hope all concerned Gurus understand my query, if not feel free to mail me.
Best Regards, --Yogesh R Upadhye.
Asia Pacific Practice Unit, Pune DC. Infosys Technologies Limited +91-20-2932800/1 Extn: 5759
<disclaimer> The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Infosys Technologies Ltd. </disclaimer>
Philip
-- Blutarsky's Axiom: Nothing is impossible for the man who will not listen to reason.
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- GCS/ED/MU/TW d- s+: a- C+++ UL+++ P++++ L+++>$ E--- W+++ N- o-- K- w--- PS+ PE Y+ PGP+ t* X- R* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G++ e+++>$ h* r y ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
As what my reading goes about this query is when to use LAMP and when J2EE?? For this, many of the Gurus suggested that for mid/small size projects, the best option available is LAMP over J2EE and for bigger enterprise applications, go for J2EE.
I feel that there is no _intrinsic_ limitation or inefficiency if you use one over the other. Other non-technical and semi-technical issues may become more important in deciding your choice (e.g. how comfortable does your client feel about sourcing Perl programming resources? We were forced to use Java instead of Perl in one largish project just because the customer said Java programmers are available at every street corner.) There are many such issues which may affect the final decision, and the list of such issues will be too long to enumerate here. :)
Shuvam
On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 02:54:42PM +0530, Shuvam Misra wrote:
As what my reading goes about this query is when to use LAMP and when J2EE?? For this, many of the Gurus suggested that for mid/small size projects, the best option available is LAMP over J2EE and for bigger enterprise applications, go for J2EE.
I feel that there is no _intrinsic_ limitation or inefficiency if you use one over the other.
I am not really sure about this, considering that PHP and Perl work through Apache modules, while J2EE will require Tomcat or equivalent. Not to mention that PHP is designed to be inserted inside HTML making it ever so convenient to embed dynamic content into essentially simple HTML. And if you still want real juice, you can always recompile Apache with these modules built in, the way apache-perl is provided on Debian.
As a matter of personal taste, I would stay away from all things Java as far as possible ...
Other non-technical and semi-technical issues may become more important in deciding your choice (e.g. how comfortable does your client feel about sourcing Perl programming resources?
I agree on that. But I would suggest that if you want your code to be maintained and developed in the long run by purely enthusiastic volunteers (which seems likely for a school) then go for PHP or Perl. And also be sure to check out all the frameworks that people have designed over the years to make project design and implementation in these languages.
Considering scalability, I am not sure designing for 9th and 10th and then using it for all the standards constitutes "scalibility" at all! And given that Slashdot runs on Slash, which is entirely made up of LAMP(erl) (http://slashcode.com/about.shtml), I don't think there is any question about whether LAMP can handle scale. Remember this is the code responsible for the slashdot effect that can bring down enterprise websites due to exceedingly large amounts of traffic!
Sameer.
On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe wrote:
Not to mention that PHP is designed to be inserted inside HTML making it ever so convenient to embed dynamic content into essentially simple
Violating the separation of business logic and presentation logic. That's one of the main things I do not like about PHP, JSP, ASP and eperl.
Not to mention that PHP is designed to be inserted inside HTML making it ever so convenient to embed dynamic content into essentially simple
Violating the separation of business logic and presentation logic. That's one of the main things I do not like about PHP, JSP, ASP and eperl.
Actually, this was the reason we went for fanatical templatisation (we might have actually gone a bit overboard on this one in one or two cases where we have more than twenty tiny HTML-fragment templates for building one screen). We were -- and are -- very uncomfortable with the idea of embedding HTML fragments in print statements in the code. And we see hundreds and thousands of programmers who are "experienced Web developers" doing this all over the place. It's disturbing reading that sort of code.
Shuvam
I feel that there is no _intrinsic_ limitation or inefficiency if you use one over the other.
I am not really sure about this, considering that PHP and Perl work through Apache modules, while J2EE will require Tomcat or equivalent.
I agree on the issue of extra weight of Tomcat (or any other servlet engine). However, this is a double-edged sword. The servlet engine can avoid some amount of repeated computation by keeping some state in memory, thus bringing down some overheads. I don't know how to do this in mod_perl. For instance, if I create an object instance in a Java servlet, and attach it to a static member somewhere, that object instance just stays alive till the servlet engine comes down. Thus, one servlet can "set a global variable", which a second servlet can access later. I don't know how to do this in mod_perl. When we looked at mod_perl last, I couldn't figure out how to do this. I know you can do global initialisation when the mod_perl system starts up (and this is a huge performance help), but I don't know "how to set global state" in one mod_perl unit, and keep it there for the next invocation to access.
As a matter of personal taste, I would stay away from all things Java as far as possible ...
:)
I presume you've read http://www.paulgraham.com/javacover.html and http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html ... in fact, most of the articles on that site are superb. The comments in the Java article are quite thought-provoking.
Considering scalability, I am not sure designing for 9th and 10th and then using it for all the standards constitutes "scalibility" at all! And given that Slashdot runs on Slash, which is entirely made up of LAMP(erl) (http://slashcode.com/about.shtml), I don't think there is any question about whether LAMP can handle scale. Remember this is the code responsible for the slashdot effect that can bring down enterprise websites due to exceedingly large amounts of traffic!
Agreed. Seconded. :)
Shuvam
PS: Please communicate my warm regards to Phatak and Kavi Arya, since you appear to be in the same school as them. Haven't met them in a long time. :)
On Sep 10, 2003 at 13:33, Yogesh_Upadhye wrote:
So, my question here is - the person who wanted to get this for some school database for managing reports and all, how much feasible to use this LAMP? As may be currently he'll implement it for some standards like 9th and 10th...but later it might need to generalised for the whole school. Similar situation can happen with any other application, where we might start off with LAMP considering it as mid/small project, but later when it need to work out on a bigger scale, how much feasible it's to put an effort on portaility of the application? Just wanted to knw the effort estimates for scaling general LAMP application (apprxly. percent of time) over the application which has been developed in J2EE.
It is not possible to account for requirements which do not exist. One should always strive to write scalable code, of course.
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Philip S Tellis -
Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe -
Satya -
Shuvam Misra -
Yogesh_Upadhye