I had registered my grievance at the Consumer Online Resource & Empowerment Centre (http://www.ccccore.co.in/ or http://www.core.nic.in/). Let's see what happens.
Core indeed works.... However you need to do much than that. I had been cheated by ICICI Lombard people in similar fashion. They sold me Health insurance through phone, and told me that its applicable only on credit card. Fearing hidden costs, I told them I dont want to pay through credit card, but they insisted that there wont be any other charges apart from Premium and service charge.... Eventually I realized that they converted my 20K premium to EMIs and started charding me EMI....
On calling them they denied of not making me aware of EMI. When asked for cancellation of Policy, they demanded 70% of the premium as cancellation charge. I launched a complaint with Core.nic.in and also sent a mail t ICICI Lombard grievence department demanding the recording of my call with Lombard during the time of purchase... They retrived the recording and as I said they realized that I was not made aware of EMI. Finally they agreed to cancel the policy and gave me complete refund along with Service charges.
*Now here's what you can do... Call up Reliance and ask them to provide you the recording of the telephonic conversation between you and the executive where he/she assured you about the FREE service. If they deny launch a compliant stating that you are not provided information. If RTI act covers telecom, then go ahead and file RTI suit against them.* *I was told that my money is gone, but I got it back. You just need patience and right move. All the best.*
Bye Regards
On Thursday 28 May 2009, Pravin Dhayfule wrote:
I had registered my grievance at the Consumer Online Resource & Empowerment Centre (http://www.ccccore.co.in/ or http://www.core.nic.in/). Let's see what happens.
God. The hoops one has to go thru, to get the bare minimum service. And we dream of being a world economic power and having world class companies. I wonder if any of the honchos who head these milking machines use their own services anonymously.
Tata indicom is quite ok in comparison. I am using their regular vdata usb modem for a few years now. Except for a complain about non receipt of bills, and hence reversal of late payment charges (which they did reverse promptly), i have had no issues. Speed is very dependent on signal strength and is slow if you are inside a typical mumbai concrete cage or valley.
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
Tata indicom is quite ok in comparison. I am using their regular vdata usb modem for a few years now. Except for a complain about non receipt of bills, and hence reversal of late payment charges (which they did reverse promptly), i have had no issues. Speed is very dependent on signal strength and is slow if you are inside a typical mumbai concrete cage or valley.
I have used TataIndicom broadband when I was in Bombay. Too many problems and very bad service, Same is the case with everyone - be it Reliance, Tata, Vodafone etc. Their systems are badly programmed and man power lacks essential skills and, most importantly, their processes are flawed.
Thanks & Regards, Rajendra Prasad Murakonda
On Thursday 28 May 2009, Rajendra Prasad Murakonda wrote:
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
Tata indicom is quite ok in comparison. I am using their regular vdata usb modem for a few years now. Except for a complain about non receipt of bills, and hence reversal of late payment charges (which they did reverse promptly), i have had no issues. Speed is very dependent on signal strength and is slow if you are inside a typical mumbai concrete cage or valley.
I have used TataIndicom broadband when I was in Bombay. Too many problems and very bad service, Same is the case with everyone - be it Reliance, Tata, Vodafone etc. Their systems are badly programmed and man power lacks essential skills and, most importantly, their processes are flawed.
Vodafone and airtel gprs were the absolute pits. Even VSNL in the dialup days was 100x better.
On Thursday 28 May 2009 12:01:51 jtd wrote:
I have used TataIndicom broadband when I was in Bombay. Too many problems and very bad service, Same is the case with everyone - be it Reliance, Tata, Vodafone etc. Their systems are badly programmed and man power lacks essential skills and, most importantly, their processes are flawed.
Vodafone and airtel gprs were the absolute pits.
airtel gprs only sucked in Mumbai, Bangalore and Coimbatore - rest of India it was fantastic.
Pravin Dhayfule wrote:
I had registered my grievance at the Consumer Online Resource & Empowerment Centre (http://www.ccccore.co.in/ or http://www.core.nic.in/). Let's see what happens.
Also go and put the details on consumer sites like mouthshut.com which are repositories of consumer opinion of various products. Many people search that site to see who has had problems with it and it also surfaces often on google search for a product. It may have a better hit rate than your blog.
Regards Saswata
Thank you Praveen. This is an encouragement. I will surely take your advice and work on this.
Regards Pankaj
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Pravin Dhayfule dhayfule@gmail.comwrote:
I had registered my grievance at the Consumer Online Resource &
Empowerment
Centre (http://www.ccccore.co.in/ or http://www.core.nic.in/). Let's see what happens.
Core indeed works.... However you need to do much than that. I had been cheated by ICICI Lombard people in similar fashion. They sold me Health insurance through phone, and told me that its applicable only on credit card. Fearing hidden costs, I told them I dont want to pay through credit card, but they insisted that there wont be any other charges apart from Premium and service charge.... Eventually I realized that they converted my 20K premium to EMIs and started charding me EMI....
On calling them they denied of not making me aware of EMI. When asked for cancellation of Policy, they demanded 70% of the premium as cancellation charge. I launched a complaint with Core.nic.in and also sent a mail t ICICI Lombard grievence department demanding the recording of my call with Lombard during the time of purchase... They retrived the recording and as I said they realized that I was not made aware of EMI. Finally they agreed to cancel the policy and gave me complete refund along with Service charges.
*Now here's what you can do... Call up Reliance and ask them to provide you the recording of the telephonic conversation between you and the executive where he/she assured you about the FREE service. If they deny launch a compliant stating that you are not provided information. If RTI act covers telecom, then go ahead and file RTI suit against them.* *I was told that my money is gone, but I got it back. You just need patience and right move. All the best.*
Bye Regards -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Done that.
-- Regards Pankaj
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 4:41 PM, scrapo scrapo@saswatabanerjee.com wrote:
Pravin Dhayfule wrote:
I had registered my grievance at the Consumer Online Resource &
Empowerment
Centre (http://www.ccccore.co.in/ or http://www.core.nic.in/). Let's
see
what happens.
Also go and put the details on consumer sites like mouthshut.com which are repositories of consumer opinion of various products. Many people search that site to see who has had problems with it and it also surfaces often on google search for a product. It may have a better hit rate than your blog.
Regards Saswata -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Pankaj Jangid wrote:
Thank you Praveen. This is an encouragement. I will surely take your advice and work on this.
Regards Pankaj
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Pravin Dhayfule dhayfule@gmail.comwrote:
[snip]
*Now here's what you can do... Call up Reliance and ask them to provide you the recording of the telephonic conversation between you and the executive where he/she assured you about the FREE service. If they deny launch a compliant stating that you are not provided information. If RTI act covers telecom, then go ahead and file RTI suit against them.* *I was told that my money is gone, but I got it back. You just need patience and right move. All the best.*
While he is mentioning that he is getting bills, he hasn't yet mentioned what exactly they charged him for, as the amount he mentions does not tally with his monthly rental. Anyway it is his choice. Many a times, the first bill contains an advance rental for the next month. Even with zero rental bills, the amount is deducted only after the bill + taxes is made. For eg. If a Rs. 1750/-. rental is waived off, they add the 12.5% service tax to it and on the final amount of Rs. 1968/- deduct Rs. 1750/- which means a bill of Rs 219/-. They pay our rental (For the free period) but we pay its tax as that is not free.
On Saturday 30 May 2009, Rony wrote:
Pankaj Jangid wrote:
Thank you Praveen. This is an encouragement. I will surely take your advice and work on this.
Regards Pankaj
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Pravin Dhayfule
dhayfule@gmail.comwrote:
[snip]
*Now here's what you can do... Call up Reliance and ask them to provide you the recording of the telephonic conversation between you and the executive where he/she assured you about the FREE service. If they deny launch a compliant stating that you are not provided information. If RTI act covers telecom, then go ahead and file RTI suit against them.* *I was told that my money is gone, but I got it back. You just need patience and right move. All the best.*
While he is mentioning that he is getting bills, he hasn't yet mentioned what exactly they charged him for, as the amount he mentions does not tally with his monthly rental. Anyway it is his choice. Many a times, the first bill contains an advance rental for the next month. Even with zero rental bills, the amount is deducted only after the bill + taxes is made. For eg. If a Rs. 1750/-. rental is waived off, they add the 12.5% service tax to it and on the final amount of Rs. 1968/- deduct Rs. 1750/- which means a bill of Rs 219/-. They pay our rental (For the free period) but we pay its tax as that is not free.
Whoever pays the rent pays the tax. If you paid tax, you must get a tax receipt, cause you are entitled to setoff.
Afaik you are mistaken, cause Reliance cannot claim tax on zero bill.
The bill was generated assuming Rs. 650 per month plan. Since I started in the middle of the billing cycle they interpolated it and bill was reduced to ~3xx. In the next month they added the previous month bill and a penalty I suppose. -- Regards Pankaj
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 11:12 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009, Rony wrote:
Pankaj Jangid wrote:
Thank you Praveen. This is an encouragement. I will surely take your advice and work on this.
Regards Pankaj
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Pravin Dhayfule
dhayfule@gmail.comwrote:
[snip]
*Now here's what you can do... Call up Reliance and ask them to
provide
you the recording of the telephonic conversation between you and the executive where he/she assured you about the FREE service. If they
deny
launch a compliant stating that you are not provided information. If
RTI
act covers telecom, then go ahead and file RTI suit against them.* *I was told that my money is gone, but I got it back. You just need patience and right move. All the best.*
While he is mentioning that he is getting bills, he hasn't yet mentioned what exactly they charged him for, as the amount he mentions does not tally with his monthly rental. Anyway it is his choice. Many a times, the first bill contains an advance rental for the next month. Even with zero rental bills, the amount is deducted only after the bill + taxes is made. For eg. If a Rs. 1750/-. rental is waived off, they add the 12.5% service tax to it and on the final amount of Rs. 1968/- deduct Rs. 1750/- which means a bill of Rs 219/-. They pay our rental (For the free period) but we pay its tax as that is not free.
Whoever pays the rent pays the tax. If you paid tax, you must get a tax receipt, cause you are entitled to setoff.
Afaik you are mistaken, cause Reliance cannot claim tax on zero bill.
-- Rgds JTD -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
jtd wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009, Rony wrote:
While he is mentioning that he is getting bills, he hasn't yet mentioned what exactly they charged him for, as the amount he mentions does not tally with his monthly rental. Anyway it is his choice. Many a times, the first bill contains an advance rental for the next month. Even with zero rental bills, the amount is deducted only after the bill + taxes is made. For eg. If a Rs. 1750/-. rental is waived off, they add the 12.5% service tax to it and on the final amount of Rs. 1968/- deduct Rs. 1750/- which means a bill of Rs 219/-. They pay our rental (For the free period) but we pay its tax as that is not free.
Whoever pays the rent pays the tax. If you paid tax, you must get a tax receipt, cause you are entitled to setoff.
Afaik you are mistaken, cause Reliance cannot claim tax on zero bill.
Rental being free does not automatically imply that tax on it is free. A CA would be able to unravel this mystery. The bill and the cheque payment is proof of tax paid and can be used for accounting purposes. If you pay cash at the Webworld, you get a stamped receipt. In my mobile, I am on a zero rental scheme where I get free talk time equal to my rental amount. My bill has many components like sms usage, surfing etc and on the final amount after tax is added, I get the discount for my local and std calls.
Pankaj Jangid wrote:
The bill was generated assuming Rs. 650 per month plan. Since I started in the middle of the billing cycle they interpolated it and bill was reduced to ~3xx. In the next month they added the previous month bill and a penalty I suppose.
Avoid posting replies above the original text. In your case you appear to have been duped by the sales guy. Did you check the form after it was filled, as you are on a different plan altogether. Did the sales guy simply take your signature and tell you that he will fill up the form for you? Did the free 2 months offer appear on the Reliance website? It is always better to check out the website for offers in print, before believing any sales person of any company.
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
Avoid posting replies above the original text. In your case you appear to have been duped by the sales guy. Did you check the form after it was filled, as you are on a different plan altogether. Did the sales guy simply take your signature and tell you that he will fill up the form for you? Did the free 2 months offer appear on the Reliance website? It is always better to check out the website for offers in print, before believing any sales person of any company.
That is GMAIL. :(
He told me that once the free 2 month bundle is over the plan will automatically be changed to 650 per month.
-- Regards Pankaj
On Sunday 31 May 2009, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009, Rony wrote:
While he is mentioning that he is getting bills, he hasn't yet mentioned what exactly they charged him for, as the amount he mentions does not tally with his monthly rental. Anyway it is his choice. Many a times, the first bill contains an advance rental for the next month. Even with zero rental bills, the amount is deducted only after the bill + taxes is made. For eg. If a Rs. 1750/-. rental is waived off, they add the 12.5% service tax to it and on the final amount of Rs. 1968/- deduct Rs. 1750/- which means a bill of Rs 219/-. They pay our rental (For the free period) but we pay its tax as that is not free.
Whoever pays the rent pays the tax. If you paid tax, you must get a tax receipt, cause you are entitled to setoff.
Afaik you are mistaken, cause Reliance cannot claim tax on zero bill.
Rental being free does not automatically imply that tax on it is free.
It does. No rental charge, No tax on rental.
A CA would be able to unravel this mystery. The bill and the cheque payment is proof of tax paid and can be used for accounting purposes.
The bill has to mention the tax as a separate component.
If you pay cash at the Webworld, you get a stamped receipt. In my mobile, I am on a zero rental scheme where I get free talk time equal to my rental amount.
So zero rental = zero talk time?. No. It means you pay rental X and get free talk time = X. And you get a tax charge for X.
My bill has many components like sms usage, surfing etc and on the final amount after tax is added, I get the discount for my local and std calls.
So SMS = X Surfing = Y Local call = Z Discount on Local call z Actual charge on Local call = Z-z Tax = 10 % Total =1.1 * ( X + Y + Z-z ) Not Taxable amount = 1.1 * ( X + Y + Z ) Less discount = (1.1 * ( X + Y + Z )) -z
I had a spat with HSBC (one of the worst disorganisations i have ever come across in my entire life anywhere in the world - and i have been to some real hell holes), on precisely this issue, where they tried to charge me late payment charges inspite of payment being made on time, then reversing the charge, but not the tax because they had paid the tax. Told them that they have to claim a refund, cause they cannot charge me tax on an amount that i have never paid. It is ILLEGAL.
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:30 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
I had a spat with HSBC (one of the worst disorganisations i have ever come across in my entire life anywhere in the world - and i have been to some real hell holes), on precisely this issue, where they tried to charge me late payment charges inspite of payment being made on time, then reversing the charge, but not the tax because they had paid the tax. Told them that they have to claim a refund, cause they cannot charge me tax on an amount that i have never paid. It is ILLEGAL.
What does HSBC have that SBI or any other nationalized bank doesn't? These private banks are a bunch of ********* and are out to rip you off :)
On Sunday 31 May 2009, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:30 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
I had a spat with HSBC (one of the worst disorganisations i have ever come across in my entire life anywhere in the world - and i have been to some real hell holes), on precisely this issue, where they tried to charge me late payment charges inspite of payment being made on time, then reversing the charge, but not the tax because they had paid the tax. Told them that they have to claim a refund, cause they cannot charge me tax on an amount that i have never paid. It is ILLEGAL.
What does HSBC have that SBI or any other nationalized bank doesn't? These private banks are a bunch of ********* and are out to rip you off :)
One of the HSBC cards was fraudulently transacted with. The fraud happened because attempts to block via their call center were futile as the call center was non functionaI during that period. I duly registered a police plaint and informed HSBC, and asked HSBC by fax to chennai backend (the local Mumbai zombie alongwith the rest of their Mumbai office promptly forgot about the fax ) to provide the receipts of the transactions and the addresses of the establishments where the transactions took place. Chennai backend verbally informs that it will take 40 days. No written reply till date (10 months later).
As the amounts were substantial, I begin investigating my self, with substantial support from our very hard pressed police. The transactions were traced to Madan Jewellers and Subhiksha, both in zaveri bazar area. You can imagine my shock when the jeweller produced a letter from AXIS Bank (owner of the POS) stating that the transactions were reversed as it was a fraud. So HSBC had reversed the transactions about two months after the fraud. Subhkisha had wound up in the meantime. However the winding up was two months AFTER the jeweller transaction reversal. I am more than sure that the same reversal would have been done with Subhiksha. The POS receipt I obtained from the jeweller has a signature which is utterly different from the sig on the card.
AND HSBC continues to bill me for the entire amount + interest + late payment and threaten me. Ofcourse I have bluntly refused to pay anything and might take them to court. They havent provided the signed counter slip till date.
If any one of you have had to pay on a fraud make sure you obtain the original receipt from the bank and visit the concerned establishment. The bank is worse than the badabhais they hire, illegally collecting money from both ends.
To me it looks like the bank and the recovery dept employees are on the take and recieve bribes on recovery leads they provide to the recovery agents. I cant believe that their call centers are so disconnected from their backends and recovery processes.
jtd wrote:
On Sunday 31 May 2009, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
On Saturday 30 May 2009, Rony wrote:
While he is mentioning that he is getting bills, he hasn't yet mentioned what exactly they charged him for, as the amount he mentions does not tally with his monthly rental. Anyway it is his choice. Many a times, the first bill contains an advance rental for the next month. Even with zero rental bills, the amount is deducted only after the bill + taxes is made. For eg. If a Rs. 1750/-. rental is waived off, they add the 12.5% service tax to it and on the final amount of Rs. 1968/- deduct Rs. 1750/- which means a bill of Rs 219/-. They pay our rental (For the free period) but we pay its tax as that is not free.
Whoever pays the rent pays the tax. If you paid tax, you must get a tax receipt, cause you are entitled to setoff.
Afaik you are mistaken, cause Reliance cannot claim tax on zero bill.
Rental being free does not automatically imply that tax on it is free.
It does. No rental charge, No tax on rental.
A CA would be able to unravel this mystery. The bill and the cheque payment is proof of tax paid and can be used for accounting purposes.
The bill has to mention the tax as a separate component.
If you pay cash at the Webworld, you get a stamped receipt. In my mobile, I am on a zero rental scheme where I get free talk time equal to my rental amount.
So zero rental = zero talk time?. No. It means you pay rental X and get free talk time = X. And you get a tax charge for X.
The tax componet is seperate.
My bill has many components like sms usage, surfing etc and on the final amount after tax is added, I get the discount for my local and std calls.
So SMS = X Surfing = Y Local call = Z Discount on Local call z Actual charge on Local call = Z-z Tax = 10 % Total =1.1 * ( X + Y + Z-z ) Not Taxable amount = 1.1 * ( X + Y + Z ) Less discount = (1.1 * ( X + Y + Z )) -z
What I get is X + Y + Z + R = T (Total usage + Monthly Rentals ) Tax = 12% of T. New total = T + Tax = TT Final amount F = TT - Free Talktime Discount
I had a spat with HSBC (one of the worst disorganisations i have ever come across in my entire life anywhere in the world - and i have been to some real hell holes), on precisely this issue, where they tried to charge me late payment charges inspite of payment being made on time, then reversing the charge, but not the tax because they had paid the tax. Told them that they have to claim a refund, cause they cannot charge me tax on an amount that i have never paid. It is ILLEGAL.
In your case charging the late fee itself was wrong so they wrongly paid the tax and that's their problem. You can't be charged for it.
jtd wrote:
To me it looks like the bank and the recovery dept employees are on the take and recieve bribes on recovery leads they provide to the recovery agents. I cant believe that their call centers are so disconnected from their backends and recovery processes.
The best thing is to not have any credit card till the security situation gets better. Nowadays anyone can just flick someone's card and do shopping without any problems. There is no verification process. Another option for Railway booking online is the ITZcash Card. It is a prepaid card in denominations of 1000/- and above. The maximum risk is the limited value of the card. I use it for railway bookings.
Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
To me it looks like the bank and the recovery dept employees are on the take and recieve bribes on recovery leads they provide to the recovery agents. I cant believe that their call centers are so disconnected from their backends and recovery processes.
The best thing is to not have any credit card till the security situation gets better. Nowadays anyone can just flick someone's card and do shopping without any problems. There is no verification process. Another option for Railway booking online is the ITZcash Card. It is a prepaid card in denominations of 1000/- and above. The maximum risk is the limited value of the card. I use it for railway bookings.
In India, there is a better solution. Its called netbanking. Most of the good sites allow you to debit your bank account directly (mostly through billdesk.com). The transaction links you to your own bank's internet banking system where you put in a user name and password ON THE BANK'S WEBSITE and the merchant has no control on the transaction. Once teh bank confrims your transaction, it passes a confirmation to the merchant.
I have to book about 6-10 railway tickets every month for our audit teams which travel all over the country. I always opt for net banking instead of credit cards. Try it next time.
Regards saswata
On Sunday 31 May 2009, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
So zero rental = zero talk time?. No. It means you pay rental X and get free talk time = X. And you get a tax charge for X.
The tax componet is seperate.
My bill has many components like sms usage, surfing etc and on the final amount after tax is added, I get the discount for my local and std calls.
So SMS = X Surfing = Y Local call = Z Discount on Local call z Actual charge on Local call = Z-z Tax = 10 % Total =1.1 * ( X + Y + Z-z ) Not Taxable amount = 1.1 * ( X + Y + Z ) Less discount = (1.1 * ( X + Y + Z )) -z
What I get is X + Y + Z + R = T (Total usage + Monthly Rentals ) Tax = 12% of T. New total = T + Tax = TT Final amount F = TT - Free Talktime Discount
It's not correct. They should be doing T- Free Talktime Discount. Then charging tax. They are charging you tax on the discounted portion.
I had a spat with HSBC (one of the worst disorganisations i have ever come across in my entire life anywhere in the world - and i have been to some real hell holes), on precisely this issue, where they tried to charge me late payment charges inspite of payment being made on time, then reversing the charge, but not the tax because they had paid the tax. Told them that they have to claim a refund, cause they cannot charge me tax on an amount that i have never paid. It is ILLEGAL.
In your case charging the late fee itself was wrong so they wrongly paid the tax and that's their problem. You can't be charged for it.
True. But the point is not about a wrong fee, rather about the illogical charging of tax on charges not applicable (or waived). There was a court case many aeons ago against the excise department where the excise department would not allow a discount (which was based on volumes), and would compute tax on the maximum price. Afair the excise dept lost.
-- Regards,
Rony.
GNU/Linux ! No Viruses No Spyware Only Freedom.
-
Dinesh Joshi -
jtd -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Pankaj Jangid -
Pravin Dhayfule -
Rajendra Prasad Murakonda -
Rony -
scrapo