Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: How to IM from behind a SQUID proxy on a GNU/Linux box? Here is a solution...
I think Philip is raving mad! What prompted you to think that only meebo and not Yahoo!, Google or Microsoft will be having our IM passwords and sneaking into our privacy?
To be able to authenticate to Yahoo!, you need to know a username and password from that service. You are not supposed to share that with anyone else. Meebo is effectively able to MITM your IM conversations.
But thats not the point. Yahoo! may very well read every e-mail IM that I have ever sent. Who told you that the Yahoo! guys ae absolute saints not prone to mischief. Its a matter of trust. If you trust Yahoo!, very well, go forward and use its services. If you trust meebo then go ahead. If you do not then, very well again. But do not spread your mistrust, until you have very sound reasons to back your claims.
Can you prove how Yahoo! is more trustable than meebo?
By the way I will greatly appreciate it if Philip is able to come up with a solution to IMing from behind a proxy.
There is always Jabber. Plus, if you _do_ need IM from work, you should be able to get a hole poked in the proxy. Alternatively, you could always telecommute, or even get another job.
Hahaha my dear friend, you have got it all wrong. I do not do a job, I study in an university where every other Windows IM client works. Yahoo! MEssenger, Google Talk, Rediff Bol, etc.. Therefore the university has no policy to block IM. But not a single UNIX based client works. Not even Gaim, Kopete, Yahoo! Messenger for UNIX. Needless to say that I have tried using Jabber on Gaim. The simple reason being that the Windows clients piggyback the IM packets on HTTP packets and use port 80 for their job, while the UNIX based ones do not. Hence the problem.
Those who have attended Mark's talk on making GNU/Linux more desktop friendly, we have to work out solutions that work on Windoze and GNU/Linux equally well. So do not talk about stuff that require obscure hacking to make them work. I do not have any problem with them, but laymen do have problems doing so!
For your kind information a lot of UNIX based utilities like CVS are very difficult to get to work from behind a proxy (in my case SQUID)!
I expect an answer to my poblems...
On Monday 06 February 2006 5:09 pm, Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray wrote:
I think Philip is raving mad! What prompted you to think that only meebo and not Yahoo!, Google or Microsoft will be having our IM passwords and sneaking into our privacy?
To be able to authenticate to Yahoo!, you need to know a username and password from that service. You are not supposed to share that with anyone else. Meebo is effectively able to MITM your IM conversations.
But thats not the point. Yahoo! may very well read every e-mail IM that I have ever sent. Who told you that the Yahoo! guys ae absolute saints not prone to mischief. Its a matter of trust. If you trust Yahoo!, very well, go forward and use its services. If you trust meebo then go ahead. If you do not then, very well again. But do not spread your mistrust, until you have very sound reasons to back your claims.
Can you prove how Yahoo! is more trustable than meebo?
By the way I will greatly appreciate it if Philip is able to come up with a solution to IMing from behind a proxy.
There is always Jabber. Plus, if you _do_ need IM from work, you should be able to get a hole poked in the proxy. Alternatively, you could always telecommute, or even get another job.
Hahaha my dear friend, you have got it all wrong. I do not do a job, I study in an university where every other Windows IM client works. Yahoo! MEssenger, Google Talk, Rediff Bol, etc.. Therefore the university has no policy to block IM. But not a single UNIX based client works. Not even Gaim, Kopete, Yahoo! Messenger for UNIX. Needless to say that I have tried using Jabber on Gaim. The simple reason being that the Windows clients piggyback the IM packets on HTTP packets and use port 80 for their job, while the UNIX based ones do not. Hence the problem.
Those who have attended Mark's talk on making GNU/Linux more desktop friendly, we have to work out solutions that work on Windoze and GNU/Linux equally well.
Eh! I do not remember him saying anything like that. In fact what he said was forget about the windows user and focus on those who do not have a comp - they are the ones with potential.
So do not talk about stuff that require obscure hacking to make them work. I do not have any problem with them, but laymen do have problems doing so!
That is why u have admins.
For your kind information a lot of UNIX based utilities like CVS are very difficult to get to work from behind a proxy (in my case SQUID)!
Anything and everything is difficult to get working behind a proxy if u follow proper security procedures and if u have clueless admins. And btw my cvs downloads work perfectly behind a proxy if that is what u are referring to.
I expect an answer to my poblems...
Your pompous attitude is disgusting. If u so desperately want answers to your POBLEMS find them yourself or hire / cajole / beg someone to find them. If u find poblems between windows and linux interworking sit down and write code / decode the protocols and pray u dont get shafted by M$ lawyers. U are as clueless as they come.
On Monday 06 February 2006 12:19, JTD wrote:
I expect an answer to my poblems...
Your pompous attitude is disgusting. If u so desperately want answers to your POBLEMS find them yourself or hire / cajole / beg someone to find them. If u find poblems between windows and linux interworking sit down and write code / decode the protocols and pray u dont get shafted by M$ lawyers. U are as clueless as they come.
Why does this list exist? To solve problems, I hope, not to flame people who need help. His expectations arent too wild. All he is asking for an answer if one exists that is. If not then he can contact the developers of whatever software he is having trouble with. You can't expect every other user to sit down and write code and neither can he expect you to do the same. Not everyones a genius and end users certainly aren't.
So the next time you feel the need to use the reply button please make sure you have something useful to contribute. Ofcourse I am nobody to tell you that.
Sometime Today, DRR cobbled together some glyphs to say:
I expect an answer to my poblems...
ok, fine, here's the answer to your problems. Go ahead, download the source code of gaim, hack it to make it work with a proxy (not too hard, I've done something similar myself, it involves using a packet analyser), and send a patch back to the gaim folks.
If your patch gets accepted, then that's really great, because... - You get your name in gaim's credits - You can put this fact on your resume - No one will ever have this problem again
Of course, someone has to do it first, and there is absolutely no reason why it cannot be you. I can see the passion in you to get at a solution. Here's your chance to actually make it happen. How cool would that be?
There is no excuse for you not to do it. Let me repeat. No Excuse!
About meebo - here's a technical reason why it's not 'as good' as a desktop app. Meebo is based on a pull model. ie, the web client keeps polling the server to find out if something has changed, and then pulls the data if it is. Your desktop app works in a push-pull model. The server can push data to the client when it has something, and the client can pull data from the server if it wants something.
Why is one better than the other? Polling in general is not good. There is too much CPU, application time and network overhead lost in checking for updates. There's also the issue of how often does one poll. If you poll too fast, you could overwhelm the server and network. If you poll too slowly, you lose the pseudo real time feel. With sufficient guess work and testing, you can settle on a reasonable window that's 'acceptable' if not perfect.
I don't see anything wrong from meebo's point of view. I'd thought of doing something similar in 2003 as a sample implementation of libyahoo2, but the aforementioned trust issues are what told me to spend my time elsewhere. If you're good enough, maybe you can take that forward.
It's fine to ask questions, but when you live on the cutting edge, you have to be prepared to maybe find the answer on your own.
Philip
On Monday 06 February 2006 12:22, Philip Tellis wrote:
Sometime Today, DRR cobbled together some glyphs to say:
I expect an answer to my poblems...
ok, fine, here's the answer to your problems. Go ahead, download the source code of gaim, hack it to make it work with a proxy (not too
I hope you realize you are embarassing yourself. Gaim already has an option to use proxy servers ( socks 4/5 and http + authentication ).
About meebo - here's a technical reason why it's not 'as good' as a desktop app. Meebo is based on a pull model. ie, the web client keeps polling the server to find out if something has changed, and then pulls the data if it is. Your desktop app works in a push-pull model. The server can push data to the client when it has something, and the client can pull data from the server if it wants something.
Why is one better than the other? Polling in general is not good. There is too much CPU, application time and network overhead lost in checking for updates. There's also the issue of how often does one poll. If you poll too fast, you could overwhelm the server and network. If you poll too slowly, you lose the pseudo real time feel. With sufficient guess work and testing, you can settle on a reasonable window that's 'acceptable' if not perfect.
I don't see anything wrong from meebo's point of view. I'd thought of doing something similar in 2003 as a sample implementation of libyahoo2, but the aforementioned trust issues are what told me to spend my time elsewhere. If you're good enough, maybe you can take that forward.
Good explanation. But with Ajax there really isn't another way of implementing it.
It's fine to ask questions, but when you live on the cutting edge, you have to be prepared to maybe find the answer on your own.
A fine statement indeed.
Sometime Today, DJ cobbled together some glyphs to say:
I hope you realize you are embarassing yourself. Gaim already has an option to use proxy servers ( socks 4/5 and http + authentication ).
I know (read the gaim COPYRIGHT). I was hoping that the OP would find out the interesting way.
Good explanation. But with Ajax there really isn't another way of implementing it.
which is why I said there are technical reasons not to use an ajax app for IM.
On Monday 06 February 2006 11:39, Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray wrote:
university has no policy to block IM. But not a single UNIX based client works. Not even Gaim, Kopete, Yahoo! Messenger for UNIX.
Why?
Needless to say that I have tried using Jabber on Gaim. The simple reason being that the Windows clients piggyback the IM packets on HTTP packets and use port 80 for their job, while the UNIX based ones do not. Hence the problem.
What?! If you would've just checked the settings of gaim ( preferences button on the main window ) then under the network option you have several options of choosing a proxy server - SOCKS 4/5 or HTTP. For SQUID you require to use HTTP. You can also authenticate if the proxy server requires login. I am using Fedora Core 2 and Gaim v1.1.2. I had setup SQUID at my place for certain reasons and removed NAT. I had to use the proxy settings and it worked perfectly.
Have a look at this too: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/faq.php#q67
I am quite sure Kopete and other messengers have the same settings. There are also other ways of getting them to use HTTP proxies through environmental variables but I am not sure.
I hope this solves your problem.
Those who have attended Mark's talk on making GNU/Linux more desktop friendly, we have to work out solutions that work on Windoze and GNU/Linux equally well. So do not talk about stuff that require obscure hacking to make them work. I do not have any problem with them, but laymen do have problems doing so!
No dear. No obscure hacking. Just your regular settings.
Ok now heres the bashing: RTFM before you ask a question. Google is your friend. If you can't find help on google only _then_ post on the list. It's for your own good...
I expect an answer to my poblems...
Everyone does :)
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Debarshi 'Rishi' Ray -
Dinesh Joshi -
JTD -
Philip Tellis