30 Jul
2007
30 Jul
'07
2:23 p.m.
Hi people,
A few days ago my computer vendor came to me with some real problems
regarding Linux. Hes a small time guy who supplies assembled PCs to
individuals and maybe some small companies. Anyway, he owns an office
and himself is pissed off with Microsoft's products as he has to format
the machines every other day.
Another reason pushing him towards Linux is that hes now getting
inquiries regarding installing Linux from home users. And Vista cracks
are not yet stable and widely available :P After having a small chat
with him, I got his requirements.
For office use, he requires:
1. Microsoft Office - docs and excel spreadsheets
2. Internet Explorer - surfing / banking etc..
3. Tally - accounting
Now, I'm aware that he has the following alternatives:
1. Open office
2. Firefox
3. Tally ( Linux version )
But the problem with Open Office:
1. With average machines, it performs slow
2. The documents it generates are not 100% compatible with Ms.Office
3. Advanced features are not completely compatible
But they need to inter-operate with the rest of the world which means a
good compatibility is important.
Another problems that one generally faces is that Linux doesn't always
work out of the box. When it does, it works wonderfully well but when it
comes down to tweaking it to get it to work, its like performing a brain
surgery ( for a newbie ).
One more issue that I perceive is that distros don't always have good
hardware compatibility. Let me explain it in more detail. Ubuntu 6.06
worked well on my friend's machine. No issues. But Ubuntu 7.04 refuses
to work on the same machine. Some driver compatibility issues.
The other issue that people in India generally face is of bandwidth.
Ubuntu installs well. It impresses them. But then it runs up HUGE bills
downloading softwares.
What are your thoughts on this? How can we work with these people to
effective push Linux into homes and offices? This definitely is one of
the best ways of boosting Linux user base :)
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
30 Jul
30 Jul
2:45 p.m.
Hi,
My thoughts below:
On 7/30/07, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
2. The documents it generates are not 100% compatible
with Ms.Office
OpenOffice 2.0 does provide good compatibility. Again, it is the work
of good reverse engineering. Compatibility is a problem on micro$oft's
side. They _never_ comply with standards.
But they need to inter-operate with the rest of the
world which means a
good compatibility is important.
Rest of the world? micro$oft office is not a free/open standard.
The other issue that people in India generally face is
of bandwidth.
Ubuntu installs well.
Use Debian with 3 DVDs?
It impresses them. But then it runs up HUGE bills
downloading softwares.
Why blame the software if ISPs restrict downloads/uploads, and if the
end-user chooses such a plan?
How can we work with these people to
effective push Linux into homes and offices?
Ask them to post queries to this mailing list?
--
Shakthi Kannan
http://www.shakthimaan.com
3:02 p.m.
On 7/30/07, Shakthi Kannan <shakthimaan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Use Debian with 3 DVDs?
A query.
What percentage of typical machines have a DVD drive?
Regards,
Mohan S N
--
The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn,
burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles
3:09 p.m.
On 7/30/07, Shakthi Kannan wrote:
OpenOffice 2.0 does provide good compatibility. Again,
it is the work
of good reverse engineering. Compatibility is a problem on micro$oft's
side. They _never_ comply with standards.
Yes but we have to agree to the fact that 90% of the world use their
software ( pirated or licensed ). You can't keep on playing the blame
game. These people use whatever works and is compatible. They dont
want to get into the standards war or the FOSS vs Proprietary war.
Use Debian with 3 DVDs?
Debian needs a lot of customization and plus its very difficult to
start off for a newbie.
Why blame the software if ISPs restrict
downloads/uploads, and if the
end-user chooses such a plan?
Again we can't play the blame game here. Plus everyone doesn't have
fast downloads. For example, if someone wants to install OpenOffice in
Ubuntu, it'll take a very long time to download and install it on a
256Kbps /stable/ connection.
Ask them to post queries to this mailing list?
Umm...they are not that tech savvy plus they want quick resolutions.
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
2:51 p.m.
On 7/30/07, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The other issue that people in India generally face is
of bandwidth.
Ubuntu installs well. It impresses them. But then it runs up HUGE bills
downloading softwares.
Find out the typically used software and generate APT-on-CDs. The
vendor should be able to get this done with some help.
My Rs. 0.02
Regards,
Mohan S N
--
The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn,
burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles
3:05 p.m.
On 7/30/07, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
1. With average machines, it performs slow
It is slower than Office 2000 but definitely faster than Office XP.
2. The documents it generates are not 100% compatible
with Ms.Office
I'm yet to come across a .doc file Openoffice.org produced that MS
word had a problem interpreting. There have been a couple of cases
vice-versa, but not too many to be bothered about at all. I'm saying
that confidently because my mother transacts about 25-30 word and
excel documents with her clients daily.
Either ways, introduce him to PDF and he'll soon start circulating all
his price sheets, etc in PDF -- PDFs look more official anyways ;)
Another problems that one generally faces is that
Linux doesn't always
work out of the box. When it does, it works wonderfully well but when it
comes down to tweaking it to get it to work, its like performing a brain
surgery ( for a newbie ).
This is probably one of the more tricky problems. He'll have to refer
to (or maintain) a hardware compatibility list to make sure he sells
only that hardware which installs without problems on Linux.
The other issue that people in India generally face is
of bandwidth.
Ubuntu installs well. It impresses them. But then it runs up HUGE bills
downloading softwares.
I guess you pay for it one way or the other ;)
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
This document validates as Plain Text
31 Jul
31 Jul
5:04 p.m.
On Monday 30 Jul 2007 20:35:33 Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On 7/30/07, Dinesh Joshi
<dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Benchmark?
--
----------------------------------------
Mrugesh Karnik
GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8
Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
----------------------------------------
1. With average machines, it performs slow
It is slower than Office 2000 but definitely faster than Office XP.
6:13 p.m.
On 7/31/07, Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Why, my perception of course ;)
Oh, and my family's perception as well... yeah I know it still doesn't
qualify as a scientific reading ;)
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
This document validates as Plain Text
It is slower
than Office 2000 but definitely faster than Office XP.
Benchmark? 
30 Jul
30 Jul
3:53 p.m.
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
Now, I'm aware that he has the following alternatives:
1. Open office
2. Firefox
3. Tally ( Linux version )
Tally does not have a Linux version.
But the problem with Open Office:
1. With average machines, it performs slow
2. The documents it generates are not 100% compatible with Ms.Office
3. Advanced features are not completely compatible
Generally advanced features are not used. I tried out OO for a client
who needs to edit excel files with different colours for different cells
and to his surprise and mine, it showed colours in OO too.
But they need to inter-operate with the rest of the
world which means a
good compatibility is important.
Should not be a major problem for general offices. The problem starts
with pro softwares and their file formats like AutoCad, Photoshop, Corel
Draw.
Another problems that one generally faces is that
Linux doesn't always
work out of the box. When it does, it works wonderfully well but when it
comes down to tweaking it to get it to work, its like performing a brain
surgery ( for a newbie ).
Bad BIOSes are a pain in the arse.
One more issue that I perceive is that distros
don't always have good
hardware compatibility. Let me explain it in more detail. Ubuntu 6.06
worked well on my friend's machine. No issues. But Ubuntu 7.04 refuses
to work on the same machine. Some driver compatibility issues.
I noticed that where Debian clones did not work, RPM based distros
worked quite well and they have full distributions.
The other issue that people in India generally face is
of bandwidth.
Ubuntu installs well. It impresses them. But then it runs up HUGE bills
downloading softwares.
Again use full distros.
What are your thoughts on this? How can we work with
these people to
effective push Linux into homes and offices? This definitely is one of
the best ways of boosting Linux user base :)
Some time back I had posted a link to TurboCash ( as an alternative to
Tally ) which has now become libre and has VAT too. However It is
currently on the Windows platform and is meant for US and UK. I had put
up a suggestion about modifying it for India but no one is interested in
contributing their time and effort for the same.
We also need some work done on AutoCad alternatives. That will push many
architects towards Linux.
--
Regards,
Rony.
Knock Knock
Who's There?
Linux
Who Linux?
GNU/Linux
31 Jul
31 Jul
2 a.m.
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:53:41 +0530, Dinesh Joshi
<dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> said:
1. Microsoft Office - docs and excel spreadsheets
I have found gnumeric to do a decent job with spreadsheets -- it
even imports excel files.
2. Internet Explorer - surfing / banking etc..
Firefox, as you say, should work.
3. Tally - accounting
This is a weak spot.
Another problems that one generally faces is that
Linux doesn't always
work out of the box. When it does, it works wonderfully well but when
it comes down to tweaking it to get it to work, its like performing a
brain surgery ( for a newbie ).
I have found all my recent Etch installs to just work -- but I
generally select my hardware based on compatibility.
manoj
--
A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can take from
you. Ramsey Clark
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta(a)acm.org> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
4:02 a.m.
--- Dinesh Joshi wrote:
But the problem with Open Office:
1. With average machines, it performs slow
Average machines need to be defined here, with
specifications.
2. The documents it generates are not 100%
compatible with Ms.Office
True. Though, the solution could be using OpenOffice
under Windows as well, that seems to be more difficult
to achieve.
One more issue that I perceive is that distros
don't
always have good
hardware compatibility. Let me explain it in more
detail. Ubuntu 6.06
worked well on my friend's machine. No issues. But
Ubuntu 7.04 refuses
to work on the same machine. Some driver
compatibility issues.
If the vendor sells Intel Hardware (processor,
motherboad) it shouldn't be very difficult. There are
rare cases of incompatible between different versions,
with Intel Hardware, AFAIK.
The other issue that people in India generally face
is of bandwidth.
Ubuntu installs well. It impresses them. But then it
runs up HUGE bills
downloading softwares.
The best alternative I can think of, apart from Apt-ON
CD, is installation with a DVD of that distribution.
Sure, we don't know the percentage of homes / offices
with DVD drives, but assembled computers _will_ have
Combo drives (CDRW plus DVD-ROM) or even DVD+-RW
drives in them, because the vendor (could) insist on
having one. Yikes! people would buy illegally copied
movie DVDs, though.
--
FSF of India Associate Fellow - http://www.gnu.org.in
http://www.somaiya.edu/sksasc
Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to
http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html
6:24 a.m.
Hi Dinesh,
For office use, he requires:
1. Microsoft Office - docs and excel spreadsheets
2. Internet Explorer - surfing / banking etc..
3. Tally - accounting
Now, I'm aware that he has the following alternatives:
1. Open office
2. Firefox
3. Tally ( Linux version )
Am not sure tally linux version exists. If the replacement is
immediate try tally on wine .
But the problem with Open Office:
1. With average machines, it performs slow
2. The documents it generates are not 100% compatible with Ms.Office
3. Advanced features are not completely compatible
I will speak for the speed. Its the Ubuntu version of openoffice that
is a slow arse. I have not tried digging into the offending patch.
When I downloaded the rpms from openoffice, aliened them and installed
it worked blazing even on my meagre laptop. Not to mention better
fonts.
Compatibility _is_ a problem but only when there is really horrible
formatting done via MS Office.
One more issue that I perceive is that distros
don't always have good
hardware compatibility. Let me explain it in more detail. Ubuntu 6.06
worked well on my friend's machine. No issues. But Ubuntu 7.04 refuses
to work on the same machine. Some driver compatibility issues.
I agree on this one. 7.04 was a mistake more than anything else. I am
yet to meet someone who has not had problem with 7.04. Having said
that the alternatives are two fold -
1. 6.0.6
2. gutsy. This has worked for me and many others.
The other issue that people in India generally face is
of bandwidth.
Ubuntu installs well. It impresses them. But then it runs up HUGE bills
downloading softwares.
apt on cd
regards,
C
6:49 a.m.
On 7/31/07, Chetan S <cshring(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I have to say this -- clear the thought of Debian being a geeks-only
distro from your mind and give it a serious try. There is little
difference between Debian and Ubuntu once it is installed. Here's a
good comparison between the two (thanks to the getgnulinux.org
thread):
http://polishlinux.org/choose/comparison/?distro1=Ubuntu&distro2=Debian
There's a little bit more to be invested in configuration (and almost
none of it requires rocket science) on installation but the end result
is a system that is much sleeker, faster and more stable overall.
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
This document validates as Plain Text
One more issue
that I perceive is that distros don't always have good
hardware compatibility. Let me explain it in more detail. Ubuntu 6.06
worked well on my friend's machine. No issues. But Ubuntu 7.04 refuses
to work on the same machine. Some driver compatibility issues.
I agree on this one. 7.04 was a mistake more than anything else. I am
yet to meet someone who has not had problem with 7.04. Having said
that the alternatives are two fold -
1. 6.0.6
2. gutsy. This has worked for me and many others.
1 Aug
1 Aug
5:38 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 12:19 +0530, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
I have to say this -- clear the thought of Debian
being a geeks-only
distro from your mind and give it a serious try. There is little
difference between Debian and Ubuntu once it is installed. Here's a
Look, for a person who has known the UNIX / Linux environment in his
entire life, Debian is a nightmare. I'm not talking usagewise but I'm
talking with reference to installation and maintenance.
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
6:14 p.m.
--- Dinesh Joshi wrote:
I'm not talking
usagewise but I'm
talking with reference to installation and
maintenance.
Isn't apt-get a part of Debian too? (or rather,
apt-get was available in Debian first?) From my
partial attempt of installation of Debian GNU/Linux,
all I can say is that the process of installation is
/apparently/ longer than most other distributions
(using GUI installer). I hope, the other half that I
didn't touch, isn't too difficult to install.
--
FSF of India Associate Fellow - http://www.gnu.org.in
5, 50, 500, 5000. Store N number of mails in your inbox. Go to
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2 Aug
2 Aug
6:51 a.m.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 19:14 +0100, Roshan wrote:
Isn't apt-get a part of Debian too? (or rather,
apt-get was available in Debian first?) From my
partial attempt of installation of Debian GNU/Linux,
all I can say is that the process of installation is
/apparently/ longer than most other distributions
(using GUI installer). I hope, the other half that I
didn't touch, isn't too difficult to install.
Its not the question of longer. Try and understand the point I'm trying
to make here. Most people dont know the difference between their
harddisk and RAM. They're ignorant of these things. Vendors /
Independent sellers might have a easier time learning these things but
for a newbie root ( / ) is something that is buried under the ground and
only trees have them...
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
1 Aug
1 Aug
7:12 p.m.
On 8/1/07, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Look, for a person who has known the UNIX / Linux
environment in his
entire life, Debian is a nightmare. I'm not talking usagewise but I'm
talking with reference to installation and maintenance.
I think you meant to say "For a person who _hasn't_ know
Unix/Linux..." because otherwise it doesn't make sense.
Your point would have made sense if you would have just stuck to
initial installation. Installation is lengthier than other systems,
but it is definitely not more difficult. It doesn't really ask for
your monitor sync and refresh rates anymore (it did for my first time,
with woody) so except for the fact that the installaer doesn't look
pretty enough, none of it is _difficult_ per say.
Daily maintenance is as easy as Ubuntu, Roshan's already mentioned
why. Actually, daily maintenance is unnecessary for a Linux based
system (or, I would guess *BSD). You're not really updating your
antivirus everyday or trying to defrag your HD are you?
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
This document validates as Plain Text
2 Aug
2 Aug
6:57 a.m.
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 00:42 +0530, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
On 8/1/07, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
Yes, you're right, it was a typo :(
Look, for a person who has known the UNIX / Linux
environment in his
entire life, Debian is a nightmare. I'm not talking usagewise but I'm
talking with reference to installation and maintenance.
I think you meant to say "For a person who _hasn't_ know
Unix/Linux..." because otherwise it doesn't make sense. Your point would have made sense if you would have
just stuck to
initial installation. Installation is lengthier than other systems,
but it is definitely not more difficult. It doesn't really ask for
your monitor sync and refresh rates anymore (it did for my first time,
with woody) so except for the fact that the installaer doesn't look
pretty enough, none of it is _difficult_ per say.
Umm...yes I was talking not only about the initial installation but also
all the terminologies that Linux uses. They are completely different
from the Windoze world. Plus the post installation maintenance is
sometimes difficult.
I'll pitch a very common problem. Sometimes it does happen that Ubuntu
detects Windows partition but for some unknown reason it doesn't mount
it. Now the solution is simple, for us. Edit /etc/fstab and make the
right entries. But if you look at it from a newbie perspective, he'll
need to know:
1. How to login as root
2. Know UNIX naming convention of block devices
3. Know the format of entries in /etc/fstab
4. How to make mount points ( i.e. creating directories )
5. How to set permissions
This is a real world example.
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
6:43 p.m.
On 8/2/07, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Umm...yes I was talking not only about the initial
installation but also
all the terminologies that Linux uses. They are completely different
from the Windoze world. Plus the post installation maintenance is
sometimes difficult.
I think users who decide to install Linux on their systems do expect
the fact that some things will be addressed differently.
Also, I think you mean to say "post installation customization" and
not maintenance -- I've never had the need to defrag or refresh my
antivirus (I don't have one actually). A few months back, I would have
conceded to the fact that with debian unstable you should keep up with
the upgrades that come out almost every other day, but not anymore. I
just managed to go almost 2-3 months without doing an apt-get update
(ok, I was obsessed with it ;) ) and didn't notice the difference.
I'll pitch a very common problem. Sometimes it
does happen that Ubuntu
detects Windows partition but for some unknown reason it doesn't mount
it. Now the solution is simple, for us. Edit /etc/fstab and make the
right entries. But if you look at it from a newbie perspective, he'll
need to know:
I cannot comment on this since I haven't had a parallel windows
installation for about 2 years now. But then, is this really _that_
common a problem as you're making it out to be? If yes then it's a
reasonably big flaw.
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
This document validates as Plain Text
3 Aug
3 Aug
2:24 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 00:13 +0530, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote:
I think users who decide to install Linux on their
systems do expect
the fact that some things will be addressed differently.
True.
Also, I think you mean to say "post installation
customization" and
not maintenance -- I've never had the need to defrag or refresh my
antivirus (I don't have one actually). A few months back, I would have
conceded to the fact that with debian unstable you should keep up with
the upgrades that come out almost every other day, but not anymore. I
just managed to go almost 2-3 months without doing an apt-get update
(ok, I was obsessed with it ;) ) and didn't notice the difference.
As we both know Linux filesystems dont need defragging or need any
antivirus :P Anyway, the maintenance that I was talking about is
tweaking stuff here and there. One real world problem that most people
face with Linux is with high resolutions. My friend bought an LCD and
when he installed Ubuntu, he couldn't get a resolution above 800x600. He
had to manually edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to get higher resolutions. And
this *is* a common occurrence. Call it customization / tweaking /
maintenance, its all the same to me.
Second problem that I have faced whilst using Linux as my desktop is
that some HD videos weren't playing in any of the players - mplayer,
xine, vlc etc... On windows the file was playing perfectly well. It took
me a while to figure out the problem. I had to increase the memory
buffer in xorg.conf. Once I did that, the files played perfectly :)
These are common problems. I dont install bleeding edge software on my
system or experiment with a lot of hardware but I know for sure that
there are many more such problems. The users or the vendors dont have
the patience to solve such issues. They are not geeks.
I cannot comment on this since I haven't had a
parallel windows
installation for about 2 years now. But then, is this really _that_
common a problem as you're making it out to be? If yes then it's a
reasonably big flaw.
Yes, when I distributed Ubuntu 6.06LTS CDs to my friends, a couple of
them did face such issues.
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
4:06 p.m.
On 8/3/07, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
tweaking stuff here and there. One real world problem
that most people
face with Linux is with high resolutions. My friend bought an LCD and
when he installed Ubuntu, he couldn't get a resolution above 800x600. He
had to manually edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to get higher resolutions. And
this *is* a common occurrence. Call it customization / tweaking /
maintenance, its all the same to me.
It might be to you, but in the real world maintenance and
customization mean two different things. The former is repetitive,
while the latter is a one time job.
These are common problems. I dont install bleeding
edge software on my
system or experiment with a lot of hardware but I know for sure that
there are many more such problems. The users or the vendors dont have
the patience to solve such issues. They are not geeks.
Vendors ought to, not necessarily users -- it brings them business.
--
Siddhesh Poyarekar
This document validates as Plain Text
4 Aug
4 Aug
3:37 p.m.
Dinesh Joshi wrote:
One real world problem that most people
face with Linux is with high resolutions. My friend bought an LCD and
when he installed Ubuntu, he couldn't get a resolution above 800x600. He
had to manually edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to get higher resolutions. And
this *is* a common occurrence. Call it customization / tweaking /
maintenance, its all the same to me.
Very true. Guys, lets have a dedicated session on xorg.conf and the
games we can play with it.
One machine and a variety of monitors from old to new. Xorg experts in
all shapes and sizes please respond. :)
--
Regards,
Rony.
Knock Knock
Who's There?
Linux
Who Linux?
GNU/Linux
1 Aug
1 Aug
8:24 p.m.
On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 23:08:34 +0530, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> said:
On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 12:19 +0530, Siddhesh Poyarekar
wrote:
> I have to say this -- clear the thought of Debian being a geeks-only
> distro from your mind and give it a serious try. There is little
> difference between Debian and Ubuntu once it is installed. Here's a
Look, for a person who has known the UNIX / Linux
environment in his
entire life, Debian is a nightmare. I'm not talking usagewise but I'm
talking with reference to installation and maintenance.
Really? I just installed Debian on a new dell laptop. The
installer allows me to have one boot partition; and the rest is
encrypted. On the encrypted volume, the installer allowed me to
configure LVM -- including a logical volume for swap. It discovered
that I had a dell partition, a windows partition, and configured that
into grub. The machine rebooted fine (decryption and all), and uses
hibernate to suspend itself -- all within an hour or so.
It has the standard X setup, including nvidia non-free
drivers, bind, emacs -- mostly using the chicken peck installation (hit
enter until it stops asking you questions).
Apart from the download time, I barely paid any attention to the
install (apart from partitioning the disk).
This is a standard dell precision m90 box, and so far, I have
had to do _nothing_ special.
manoj
--
A victor only breeds hatred, while a defeated man lives in misery, but a
man at peace within lives happily, abandoning up ideas of victory and
defeat. 201
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta(a)acm.org> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
2 Aug
2 Aug
6:46 a.m.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 15:24 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Apart from the download time, I barely paid any attention to the
install (apart from partitioning the disk).
This is a standard dell precision m90 box, and so far, I have
had to do _nothing_ special.
Good for you :) But that is because you're a Linux user. I was talking
about the average joe who hasn't ever used Linux.
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
7:20 a.m.
Quoting Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com>om>:
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 15:24 -0500, Manoj Srivastava
wrote:
he also happens to be a core debian devel
Apart from the download time, I barely paid any attention to the
install (apart from partitioning the disk).
This is a standard dell precision m90 box, and so far, I have
had to do _nothing_ special.
Good for you :) But that is because you're a Linux user. I was talking
about the average joe who hasn't ever used Linux.
9:41 a.m.
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:16:26 +0530, Dinesh Joshi <dinesh.a.joshi(a)gmail.com> said:
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 15:24 -0500, Manoj Srivastava
wrote:
>
> Apart from the download time, I barely paid any attention to the
> install (apart from partitioning the disk).
>
> This is a standard dell precision m90 box, and so far, I have had to
> do _nothing_ special.
Good for you :) But that is because you're a Linux
user. I was talking
about the average joe who hasn't ever used Linux.
Ah. I thought you were talking about "a person who has known the
UNIX / Linux environment in his entire life", which I see now was a
typo.
In my experience, though, the joe user can't handle major
sysadmin activity on a windows box either (installing, trouble shooting
when things go wrong, setting up SMB shares, ...). In most cases, even
for windows, they turn to a "knowledgeable" person.
manoj
--
Try to be the best of whatever you are, even if what you are is no good.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta(a)acm.org> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
1 Aug
1 Aug
7:11 a.m.
On Monday 30 July 2007 19:53, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
Hi people,
A few days ago my computer vendor came to me with some real
problems regarding Linux. Hes a small time guy who supplies
assembled PCs to individuals
But the problem with Open Office:
1. With average machines, it performs slow
on a via c3 which is equivalent to a p4 cleron 1ghz with 256mb ram
using sarge Oo works absolutely well. So your "average" machine must
be horribly misconfigured. Common problem is assigning half the ram
to video (which uses less than 8MB for most tasks).
2. The documents it generates are not 100% compatible
with
Ms.Office 3.
It will never be. So dont try and stop cribbing (in the sense we know
the reasons and the impossibility of decoding binary blobs which even
M$ is clueless about).
Having said that i find everyone can read my Oo .doc. for good measure
i send pdf and sxw and .doc AFTER a request from the rciever. Which
gives me an opportunity to highilight the shortcomings in .doc.
Advanced features are not completely compatible
????
But they need to inter-operate with the rest of the
world which
means a good compatibility is important.
Read 1
Another problems that one generally faces is that Linux doesn't
always work out of the box. When it does, it works wonderfully well
but when it comes down to tweaking it to get it to work, its like
performing a brain surgery ( for a newbie ).
Learning the ropes before foisting himself on customers is kinda
essential for any business imnsho. No shortcuts here.
One more issue that I perceive is that distros don't always have
good hardware compatibility. Let me explain it in more detail.
Ubuntu 6.06 worked well on my friend's machine. No issues. But
Ubuntu 7.04 refuses to work on the same machine. Some driver
compatibility issues.
Read 2
The other issue that people in India generally face is of
bandwidth. Ubuntu installs well. It impresses them. But then it
runs up HUGE bills downloading softwares.
use DVDs. Copy the iso on the disk. Disk is cheap, besides being the
norm with several laptop vendors with XP pre "installed". And if you
total up the costs for all the AV updates im sure Ubuntu would seem
miserly.
What are your thoughts on this? How can we work with
these people
to effective push Linux into homes and offices? This definitely is
one of the best ways of boosting Linux user base :)
There are no simple answers and the home user desktop in the assembly
segment has hughe number of issues where the only coherent biz
strategy is seat of the pants. It makes sense only if the home user
is also a small business and greatly values his data (lawyers,
doctors). again here the gains are longterm and involves considerably
short term switching resistance.
These issues have been discussed over and over. The "horse n water"
saying fits like a t.
Unless your vendor is really trying to build and grow a business, it's
just a matter of time before M$ sucks out whatever measly profits he
makes from selling machines.
--
Rgds
JTD
3:28 p.m.
jtd wrote:
Unless your vendor is really trying to build and grow
a business, it's
just a matter of time before M$ sucks out whatever measly profits he
makes from selling machines.
What will help is practical case reports on _small_ offices that have
started doing all their M$ based tasks alternatively in Linux. Here is
the list below.
1. Accounting in Tally.
2. Photoshop for image editing. Co-ordinating data files with customers
and suppliers.
3. Corel Draw for image creation. Co-ordinating data files with
customers and suppliers.
4. AutoCad for interior designers, furniture makers, architects.
Co-ordinating data files with customers and suppliers.
5. 3D Max for animation. Co-ordinating data files with customers and
suppliers.
It would be nice if some University in India creates a center for
developing FOSS softwares for professional industry usage.
--
Regards,
Rony.
Knock Knock
Who's There?
Linux
Who Linux?
GNU/Linux
3:43 p.m.
--- Rony wrote:
It would be nice if some University in India creates
a center for
developing FOSS softwares for professional industry
usage.
There's /probably/ not enough _skilled_ manpower for
such a task. Engineering students in Mumbai Univesity
/could/ be at a better position to handle this, since
they have something called as "Linux Laboratory" as an
*infrastructure*.
--
FSF of India Associate Fellow - http://www.gnu.org.in
http://www.somaiya.edu/sksasc
Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now, on
http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html/
2 Aug
2 Aug
6:48 a.m.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 16:43 +0100, Roshan wrote:
There's /probably/ not enough _skilled_ manpower
for
such a task. Engineering students in Mumbai Univesity
/could/ be at a better position to handle this, since
they have something called as "Linux Laboratory" as an
*infrastructure*.
ROTFLMAO. I'm sorry but very few students in Indian universities have
exposure, let alone the expertise to work on such projects. Besides the
fact that they dont get any credit ( in terms of academic benefits ) for
their work. They have to do this along with their regular academic
activities!
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
4:57 a.m.
Quoting Rony <ronbillypop(a)yahoo.co.uk>uk>:
1. Accounting in Tally.
2. Photoshop for image editing. Co-ordinating data files with customers
and suppliers.
Gimp works for this
3. Corel Draw for image creation. Co-ordinating data
files with
customers and suppliers.
4. AutoCad for interior designers, furniture makers, architects.
Co-ordinating data files with customers and suppliers.
5. 3D Max for animation. Co-ordinating data files with customers and
suppliers.
Blender is a possibility here - only problem is that I am yet to find a single
person in India who is competent in blender. Items 1,3 and 4 dont have a
suitable foss equivalent. By 'suitable' I mean that unless the user in question
has a strong commitment to foss and is determined to only use foss tools, the
foss alternatives to these will not satisfy him.
5:59 a.m.
On Wednesday 01 August 2007 20:58, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
You are mixing different classes of desktops. the hardware for the
graphics artist is completly different from that for the ca (or
should be). Break down your market by user (ca, law firm, dtp, etc)
and see what the requirements are.
what we are trying to do is breakdown the market as much as possible
because the strength of GNU/linux is customisation.
Unless your vendor is really trying to build and
grow a business,
it's just a matter of time before M$ sucks out whatever measly
profits he makes from selling machines.
What will help is practical case reports on _small_ offices that
have started doing all their M$ based tasks alternatively in Linux.
Here is the list below.
1. Accounting in Tally.
2. Photoshop for image editing. Co-ordinating data files with
customers and suppliers.
3. Corel Draw for image creation. Co-ordinating data files with
customers and suppliers.
4. AutoCad for interior designers, furniture makers, architects.
Co-ordinating data files with customers and suppliers.
5. 3D Max for animation. Co-ordinating data files with customers
and suppliers.
--
Rgds
JTD
11:07 a.m.
jtd wrote:
On Wednesday 01 August 2007 20:58, Rony wrote:
I haven't touched upon the hardware part. All I would like to know is
actual case reports about small offices that were doing their work
earlier in doze and later migrated everything to GNU/Linux.
The details I am looking for are....
softwares previously used in doze,
file formats used for them,
softwares used to do the same work in Linux,
file formats used in Linux and
how data was migrated from doze to Linux.
I am assuming that softwares used for GNU/Linux were ready ones that
could be downloaded from the net.
--
Regards,
Rony.
Knock Knock
Who's There?
Linux
Who Linux?
GNU/Linux
What will help is practical case reports on
_small_ offices that
have started doing all their M$ based tasks alternatively in Linux.
Here is the list below.
You are mixing different classes of desktops. the hardware for the
graphics artist is completly different from that for the ca (or
should be). Break down your market by user (ca, law firm, dtp, etc)
and see what the requirements are.
what we are trying to do is breakdown the market as much as possible
because the strength of GNU/linux is customisation.
1 Aug
1 Aug
6:04 p.m.
On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 12:41 +0530, jtd wrote:
on a via c3 which is equivalent to a p4 cleron 1ghz
with 256mb ram
using sarge Oo works absolutely well. So your "average" machine must
be horribly misconfigured. Common problem is assigning half the ram
to video (which uses less than 8MB for most tasks).
Some times the software is to be blamed too you know? As Chetan S
rightly pointed out Ubuntu's version of OOo worked slow.
It will never be. So dont try and stop cribbing (in
the sense we know
the reasons and the impossibility of decoding binary blobs which even
M$ is clueless about).
Umm...the real issue is getting people USE our software. As I've already
stated, people expect things to work. They are least interested in the
MS vs FOSS wars or whatever issues we have with MS. So lets all
concentrate on that rather than getting into useless debates?
Learning the ropes before foisting himself on
customers is kinda
essential for any business imnsho. No shortcuts here.
Yes, he'll be "foisting" himself. Thats why the inquiry with me, right?
There are no simple answers and the home user desktop
in the assembly
segment has hughe number of issues where the only coherent biz
strategy is seat of the pants. It makes sense only if the home user
is also a small business and greatly values his data (lawyers,
doctors). again here the gains are longterm and involves considerably
short term switching resistance.
There is a category of customers especially, small businesses whom he is
working with that have grown tired of the loss in productivity due to
constant virus / worm / malware infections. So, they're looking at Linux
as a viable option.
Unless your vendor is really trying to build and grow
a business, it's
just a matter of time before M$ sucks out whatever measly profits he
makes from selling machines.
Hes not trying to make money off it or build a business to compete with
M$. Hes just trying fill a need that might be growing. Earlier Windows
updates + Latest AV + Latest Antispyware would work. Now its not. So the
option of Linux :)
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
2 Aug
2 Aug
5:52 a.m.
On Wednesday 01 August 2007 23:34, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
That issue is partially taken care of by the customer wanting
GNU/Linux.
Wrong. Are u taking the onus of his biz. Or is he going to make the
effort to learn under your guidance. Either way no free lunch. It's
going to cost someone.
Some times the software is to be blamed too you know? As Chetan S
rightly pointed out Ubuntu's version of OOo worked slow.
Indeed. But u cant take corner cases as a benchmark.
It will never
be. So dont try and stop cribbing (in the sense we
know the reasons and the impossibility of decoding binary blobs
which even M$ is clueless about).
Umm...the real issue is getting people USE our software. As I've
already stated, people expect things to work.
So how do they like the thing that they already have biting their ass
every 2nd day.
They are least
interested in the MS vs FOSS wars or whatever issues we have with
MS. So lets all concentrate on that rather than getting into
useless debates?
We arent getting into useless debates. We are defining the boundaries
within which u have to work and 100% compatibility is not on the
cards for now and given M$ crooked ECMA games not likely ever.
Learning the ropes before foisting himself on
customers is kinda
essential for any business imnsho. No shortcuts here.
Yes, he'll be "foisting" himself. Thats why the inquiry with me,
right? There is a category of customers especially, small
businesses whom
he is working with that have grown tired of the loss in
productivity due to constant virus / worm / malware infections. So,
they're looking at Linux as a viable option.
That is a major +++.
> Unless your vendor is really trying to build and
grow a business,
> it's just a matter of time before M$ sucks out whatever measly
> profits he makes from selling machines.
Hes not trying to make money off it or build a
business to compete
with M$. Hes just trying fill a need that might be growing.
Which means he has to cater to some linux customers. If he is a one
man show that is fine. If not he has to have let's say 1 engineer.
That one engineer will do installations and customer support. In the
initial phase lets say he handles fifteen Phone calls per day and
maybe 1 visit.
does your vendor have fifteen customers?. Is he willing to hire a
technician for a much smaller customer base, and then push his
marketing to fill he gap?. He is most likely to loose his tech to
competition. Does he have a plan in mind.
Custome says i want abc after seeing the lates fad ad. Vendor runs to
lamigton rd. buys the cheapest hardware junk n pirate cd and delivers
to customer. That is a courier service not a computer vendor. No
value addition no biz plan no investments. And the great miracle
linux will deliver him new hope?
Ya. I know it sounds vicious. But that is the case with the small
vendor. the only magic pill is his skill. GNU/Linux offers the
opportunity to hone that skill and deliver value without spending
lots of cash.
--
Rgds
JTD
7:04 a.m.
On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 11:22 +0530, jtd wrote:
Wrong. Are u taking the onus of his biz. Or is he
going to make the
effort to learn under your guidance. Either way no free lunch. It's
going to cost someone.
Yes, it is going to cost someone. But he has taken an initiative and if
this isn't an isolated case then there are many small time vendors that
are going to try and "learn" Linux so that when their customers demand
it, they'll be ready. Now they have also understood that the money is
not in selling goods but actually providing their clients support and
troubleshooting.
Ya. I know it sounds vicious. But that is the case
with the small
vendor. the only magic pill is his skill. GNU/Linux offers the
opportunity to hone that skill and deliver value without spending
lots of cash.
I have no idea what his plans are but I see this as an opportunity for
Open Source supporters to spread Linux into small offices and homes.
People are now actually looking for alternatives as M$ is too much of an
headache for them!
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
10:19 a.m.
On Thursday 02 August 2007 12:34, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
Yes, it is going to cost someone. But he has taken an initiative
That is half the problem solved.
and if this isn't an isolated case then there are
many small time
vendors that are going to try and "learn" Linux so that when their
customers demand it, they'll be ready. Now they have also
understood that the money is not in selling goods but actually
providing their clients support and troubleshooting.
Great. so wher is the problem?
I have no idea what his plans are but I see this as an opportunity
for Open Source supporters to spread Linux into small offices and
homes. People are now actually looking for alternatives as M$ is
too much of an headache for them!
More training sessions for the small vendor? We have gone thru this
many times since 99. a few desultory vendors show up expecting the
magic wand. They completely fail to understand their situation and
keep whining for this and that compatability with windows. Thay have
got to understand that they are abandoning a sinking ship and they
have to convince their customers too.
There are added complications of the hardware software upgrad vicious
circle which works to the vendors "benefit".
--
Rgds
JTD
1:27 p.m.
On Thursday 02 August 2007 15:49, jtd wrote:
On Thursday 02 August 2007 12:34, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
More training sessions for the small vendor?
replying to myself. We can most certainly do such sessions for want of
anything better, but dont expect much out of that.
And the negative spiel is just to put things in perspective so that
something better than the above can come up.
--
Rgds
JTD
1:45 p.m.
Quoting jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in>in>:
On Thursday 02 August 2007 15:49, jtd wrote:
i have suggested this before - and dont mind repeating myself. The best way to
do this is conduct a big session in a star hotel with a fat registration fee,
limited participants and concentrate on server setup - slipping in desktop stuff
as an 'afterthought'. If you need a banner under which to hold this, NRC-FOSS is
there - also to bear the expense. Any profit made would be available for LUG
activities in the NRC-FOSS account. I am sure the LUG has sufficient big names
to make the session attractive.
regards
KG
On Thursday 02 August 2007 12:34, Dinesh Joshi
wrote:
More training sessions for the small vendor?
replying to myself. We can most certainly do such sessions for want of
anything better, but dont expect much out of that.
And the negative spiel is just to put things in perspective so that
something better than the above can come up.
2:26 p.m.
On Thursday 02 August 2007 19:15, lawgon(a)au-kbc.org wrote:
Quoting jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in>in>:
I love that. Lay the marketing fat thick. For all we know it might
actually work. And since we have already tried out the least cost
route many times, we might as well try out the most cost route.
--
Rgds
JTD
On Thursday 02 August 2007 15:49, jtd wrote:
i have suggested this before - and dont mind repeating myself. The
best way to do this is conduct a big session in a star hotel with a
fat registration fee, limited participants and concentrate on
server setup - slipping in desktop stuff as an 'afterthought'. If
you need a banner under which to hold this, NRC-FOSS is there -
also to bear the expense. Any profit made would be available for
LUG activities in the NRC-FOSS account. I am sure the LUG has
sufficient big names to make the session attractive. On Thursday 02 August 2007 12:34, Dinesh Joshi
wrote:
More training sessions for the small vendor?
replying to myself. We can most certainly do such sessions for
want of anything better, but dont expect much out of that.
And the negative spiel is just to put things in perspective so
that something better than the above can come up.
3 Aug
3 Aug
4:53 a.m.
On 02-Aug-07, at 7:56 PM, jtd wrote:
so what syllabus do we have? Two aspects are needed - 1. server setup
using linux (which is our USP) and 2. Desktop services that must be
there for SME migration.
for no. 1:
Firewall server with multi isp balancing
Mail server
Quotas for disk space and bandwidth
Monitoring bandwidth usage
Security
Clustering and farms
Fileservers - Samba
Asterix, VPN, VOIP
for no. 2:
Sound
Printing
FA
ERP, CRM, etc
Multimedia and graphics
Wine?
Maybe if there is enough interest we could develop this syllabus on
the wiki
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Associate, NRC-FOSS
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org
http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/
i have
suggested this before - and dont mind repeating myself. The
best way to do this is conduct a big session in a star hotel with a
fat registration fee, limited participants and concentrate on
server setup - slipping in desktop stuff as an 'afterthought'. If
you need a banner under which to hold this, NRC-FOSS is there -
also to bear the expense. Any profit made would be available for
LUG activities in the NRC-FOSS account. I am sure the LUG has
sufficient big names to make the session attractive.
I love that. Lay the marketing fat thick. For all we know it might
actually work. And since we have already tried out the least cost
route many times, we might as well try out the most cost route.
4 Aug
4 Aug
4:41 a.m.
On Friday 03 August 2007 10:23, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
so what syllabus do we have? Two aspects are needed - 1. server
setup using linux (which is our USP) and 2. Desktop services that
must be there for SME migration.
for no. 1:
Firewall server with multi isp balancing
Mail server
Quotas for disk space and bandwidth
Monitoring bandwidth usage
Security
Clustering and farms
Fileservers - Samba
Asterix, VPN, VOIP
for no. 2:
Sound
Printing
FA
ERP, CRM, etc
Multimedia and graphics
Wine?
Maybe if there is enough interest we could develop this syllabus on
the wiki
Irrespective of interest lets put it up on wiki. HEHE we are actually
doing something useful. DJ please note pointless discussion becoming
useful :-)).
--
Rgds
JTD
4:50 a.m.
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 10:11 +0530, jtd wrote:
Irrespective of interest lets put it up on wiki. HEHE we are actually
doing something useful. DJ please note pointless discussion becoming
useful :-)).
The whole discussion wasn't pointless. A pointless post in an useful
discussion turned useful :P
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
5:11 a.m.
On Saturday 04 August 2007 10:20, Dinesh Joshi wrote:
On Sat, 2007-08-04 at 10:11 +0530, jtd wrote:
HAHa.
--
Rgds
JTD
Irrespective of interest lets put it up on wiki.
HEHE we are
actually doing something useful. DJ please note pointless
discussion becoming useful :-)).
The whole discussion wasn't pointless. A pointless post in an
useful discussion turned useful :P
5:34 a.m.
Hi,
On 8/3/07, Kenneth Gonsalves <lawgon(a)au-kbc.org> wrote:
for no. 2:
Sound
Printing
FA
ERP, CRM, etc
Multimedia and graphics
Wine?
For voip am not sure if ppl have come across this one -- wengophone.
Its a nice one that works across a lot of platforms. Available
www.openwengo.org
regards,
C
2 Aug
2 Aug
3:43 p.m.
lawgon(a)au-kbc.org wrote:
Quoting jtd <jtd(a)mtnl.net.in>in>:
The need for training sessions on linux is no longer important as
distros today are self explainatory and auto loading. We really need to
look into the professional software segment and full scale activity in
this sector is required. Installing a desktop is simple. Users don't
want desktops. What will they do with a desktop? They want softwares
that do their jobs. What is really stopping people from migrating is the
actual absence of alternatives to some professional windows based
softwares.
--
Regards,
Rony.
Knock Knock
Who's There?
Linux
Who Linux?
GNU/Linux
On Thursday 02 August 2007 15:49, jtd wrote:
i have suggested this before - and dont mind repeating myself. The best way to
do this is conduct a big session in a star hotel with a fat registration fee,
limited participants and concentrate on server setup - slipping in desktop stuff
as an 'afterthought'. If you need a banner under which to hold this, NRC-FOSS is
there - also to bear the expense. Any profit made would be available for LUG
activities in the NRC-FOSS account. I am sure the LUG has sufficient big names
to make the session attractive.
On Thursday 02 August 2007 12:34, Dinesh Joshi
wrote:
More training sessions for the small vendor?
replying to myself. We can most
certainly do such sessions for want of
anything better, but dont expect much out of that.
And the negative spiel is just to put things in perspective so that
something better than the above can come up.
11:22 a.m.
jtd wrote:
Custome says i want abc after seeing the lates fad ad. Vendor runs to
lamigton rd. buys the cheapest hardware junk n pirate cd and delivers
to customer. That is a courier service not a computer vendor. No
value addition no biz plan no investments. And the great miracle
linux will deliver him new hope?
Everyone is not like that.
Windows is not just install and use. It has to be customized and set up
for the client according to his work environment. The same is true for
GNU/Linux too. A good vendor understands the customer and sets up his
system with loving care as if he were setting up a system for his own
home. A good vendor has to educate the customer about software licenses.
The hardware is not some low cost el cheapo stuff but one that is not
only economical with good quality but also has better warranty backup.
--
Regards,
Rony.
Knock Knock
Who's There?
Linux
Who Linux?
GNU/Linux
1:21 p.m.
On Thursday 02 August 2007 16:52, Rony wrote:
jtd wrote:
The few honorable exceptions are already on the list ;-).
Custome says i want abc after seeing the lates
fad ad. Vendor
runs to lamigton rd. buys the cheapest hardware junk n pirate cd
and delivers to customer. That is a courier service not a
computer vendor. No value addition no biz plan no investments.
And the great miracle linux will deliver him new hope?
Everyone is not like that.
Windows is not just install and use. It has to be customized and
set up for the client according to his work environment.
Ha Ha. The vast majority in the home /small business seg place their
order with the friendly neighorhood Komputerman who knows as much
about computers as a sardine. Never mind small biz. A number of multi
location business are in the same boat. A number of large local state
and central government bodies are similiarly placed.
But i agree with what u say.
--
Rgds
JTD
9:21 p.m.
hi dinesh,
nice to see that people like you are encouraging the hardware venders
to install linux and help common man get freedom and I don't mind if
some one earns good livelyhood on free software, rather it is very
good indeed.
now for the problems you pointed out.
1. openoffice has almost no compatibility issue with .doc or .xls
files but I wont recommend people to use .doc or .xls files because
they are non standard files and really speaking may or may not carry
macro based viruses and yes don't forget microsoft robbs information
from your doc and excel files specially on windows. so I strongly
recommend not to use .doc and .xls for confidential data. use either
.rtf or pdf is the best choice and as one knows open office is one
step ahead in this matter (generally free software is always one step
ahead ), pdf files can be directly created from open office which is
by no ways possible in m$ office.
and I almost import more than 50 files a day from other people which
are .doc and convert it to .odt for my personal use and .pdf for
general public.
I am yet to come across a doc file that did not work with openoffice
and a few months back I did create doc files as well and never had
problems with it too.
but kindly don't use the doc format which is non standard and only
used by microsoft for doing "chori " of your information because only
they can decode your information and if you want to they will give you
some api but you have to sine a non decleration contract and still not
be sure that what you have is safe.
secondly, apt-on cd is a wonderful tool so you can even carry mp3
codecs and g-streemer etc.
I have a very good collection of codecs and other softwares on a cd
which can be used by those who don't have good internet connection .
I cam help you get freedom in your computing needs and make your life
better if you want that cd.
your next point is some thing tricky.
let me give you an example.
if I give you a mobile handset and say that only huch will work on
this and no airtell will you buy such a phone?
so if the hardware vender says "this can only run windows and not
linux " don't buy it because I feel that this is a falty hardware.
you see, hardware has to be software nutral. I will go one step
further and say if some one says "this hardware only works good with
linux and not windows " it is still a bad thing. I know this will
never happen but I wanted to make my point clear.
and by the way, if I have to buy hardware any ways and if my money
will be shelled out any ways then why not buy an all compatible mobo
and processor etc?
I don't think I have to spend more money for a mobo that works with linux?
if one costs 3500 for a motherboard I wont need to pay 350000 for
having linux work on that?
so friends if one needs to buy hardware or if you are selling hardware
do go through the checklist for linux because I am sure the cost is
not at all an issue here.
this has been discussed by many people like roni time and time again
so I wont start a thread for a new checklist *smile * but do read
through the list frequently.
and amongst all things letec is the best formatting and documenting
tools I suppose no m$ office or open office for that matter can beat
it. one can creat amaisingly beautiful pdf files and presentations,
reports, books, and publications etc with letec.
so that's another solution for the office work.
regards,
Krishnakant.
3 Aug
3 Aug
9:40 a.m.
Quoting krishnakant Mane <researchbase(a)gmail.com>om>:
your next point is some thing tricky.
let me give you an example.
if I give you a mobile handset and say that only huch will work on
this and no airtell will you buy such a phone?
You do get such phones in the marked(called locked phones). These
handsets are generally given for very nominal price. Such an
arrangement works in favour of both customers and operators.
--
Anurag <B20A82C1>
2:28 p.m.
On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 02:51 +0530, krishnakant Mane wrote:
1. openoffice has almost no compatibility issue with
.doc or .xls
files but I wont recommend people to use .doc or .xls files because
they are non standard files and really speaking may or may not carry
I'm talking about the formatting. It goes haywire when one works with
docs generated by Ms.Word. It doesn't always happen but does happen
often enough to irritate people.
.rtf or pdf is the best choice and as one knows open
office is one
Is RTF = Rich Text Format?
--
Regards,
Dinesh A. Joshi
5892
days inactive
5897
days old
50 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Anurag -
Chetan S -
Dinesh Joshi -
jtd -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
krishnakant Mane -
lawgon＠au-kbc.org
-
Manoj Srivastava -
Mohan Nayaka -
Mrugesh Karnik -
Rony -
Roshan -
Shakthi Kannan -
Siddhesh Poyarekar