Students might be interested in this.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Rural-coordinates/723535
On 12 December 2010 10:08, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
Students might be interested in this.
<quote>A small team of scientists, research scholars and technical engineers, led by Professor Nagarjuna G of Gnowledge Lab, is carefully collecting trails, positions and tracks and putting these villages on the Internet. A result of the free and open source movement, their idea is to map these villages that do not exist on sites like Google maps and WikiMapia.
The project, which began a month ago, has so far mapped the villages of Khairat, Varose, Bidkhurd and Morbe Dam, besides Borgaon.
Once every week, the Gnowledge lab team starts off early in the morning and visits the village school. From here, the team swells to include teachers and some students and they leave to carry out mapping and tracking activity. The others stay back with laptops that the team brings for the children. The team then treks through the village, armed with GPS systems that are synced with laptops, on to which the paths and trails are collected and saved. Then, a file containing the entire path is created and saved before it’s uploaded on to www.openstreetmap.org. The GPS systems were designed by J T D’Souza and Punit D’Souza, volunteers with the project. </quote>
Kudos to Nagarjuna and the other Gnowledge team :)
Regards, Pavithran
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 10:08 +0530, jtd wrote:
Students might be interested in this.
students???????????? I am interested
On Sunday 12 December 2010 14:32:18 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 10:08 +0530, jtd wrote:
Students might be interested in this.
students???????????? I am interested
Some students from VJTI are /were / should have been on the team. Other students interested in mapping and related pedagogy could join.
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 21:11 +0530, jtd wrote:
students???????????? I am interested
Some students from VJTI are /were / should have been on the team. Other students interested in mapping and related pedagogy could join.
what I meant is: why restrict it to students?
I'm curious to about the device and how it works.
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.orgwrote:
On Sun, 2010-12-12 at 21:11 +0530, jtd wrote:
students???????????? I am interested
Some students from VJTI are /were / should have been on the team. Other students interested in mapping and related pedagogy could join.
what I meant is: why restrict it to students?
regards Kenneth Gonsalves
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Mukesh Yadav mak.gnu@gmail.com wrote:
I'm curious to about the device and how it works.
Have a spectacle of the spectacle cased GPS made by JTD.
http://gnowledge.org/~nagarjun/spectacle-case-gps.jpg
The two USB sockets go to the laptop, one of them for power (the device has no battery) and the other dumps the data to through the serial port (in this case it is usually /dev/ttyUSB0). We have to install and run gpsd, configured to look at the serial port mentioned. You also need either tangogps or Markaarter, or Qlandkarte to view the tracks while mapping. you can add waypoints and take logs and also upload them to openstreetmap.org
Our next trip to mapping is scheduled for 18th of this month. interested people may send an email off the list to me. we can coordinate where to meet etc.
-- GN
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 13:10 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote:
Have a spectacle of the spectacle cased GPS made by JTD.
http://gnowledge.org/~nagarjun/spectacle-case-gps.jpg
The two USB sockets go to the laptop, one of them for power
nice to see that jtd is slowly moving into the 21st century - maybe by 2020 he will phase out his serial ports completely
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 15:07:43 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 13:10 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote:
Have a spectacle of the spectacle cased GPS made by JTD.
http://gnowledge.org/~nagarjun/spectacle-case-gps.jpg
The two USB sockets go to the laptop, one of them for power
nice to see that jtd is slowly moving into the 21st century - maybe by 2020 he will phase out his serial ports completely
Sorry to disappoint, but my latest automation system (automates the house, with touch screen, media server, media players, light , AC control etc) uses serial ;-E
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:47 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 15:07:43 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 13:10 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote:
Have a spectacle of the spectacle cased GPS made by JTD.
http://gnowledge.org/~nagarjun/spectacle-case-gps.jpg
The two USB sockets go to the laptop, one of them for power
nice to see that jtd is slowly moving into the 21st century - maybe by 2020 he will phase out his serial ports completely
Sorry to disappoint, but my latest automation system (automates the house, with touch screen, media server, media players, light , AC control etc) uses serial ;-E
don't use an tiger when you can do it with a cat :-)
This is just to say it is the purpose that determines what chipset to use, and not what the market demands. Since we do this for education as well, it works for our project to keep it simple.
-- GN
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 18:00 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote:
Sorry to disappoint, but my latest automation system (automates the house, with touch screen, media server, media players, light , AC control etc) uses serial ;-E
don't use an tiger when you can do it with a cat :-)
This is just to say it is the purpose that determines what chipset to use, and not what the market demands. Since we do this for education as well, it works for our project to keep it simple.
as a long time member of the jtd fanclub, I very much appreciate the simplicity and utility of his devices - only it is getting increasingly difficult to source serial to usb converters.
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 17:47 +0530, jtd wrote:
nice to see that jtd is slowly moving into the 21st century - maybe by 2020 he will phase out his serial ports completely
Sorry to disappoint, but my latest automation system (automates the house, with touch screen, media server, media players, light , AC control etc) uses serial ;-E
dinasaurs became extinct because they could not adapt ;-)
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 11:31:51 Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 17:47 +0530, jtd wrote:
nice to see that jtd is slowly moving into the 21st century - maybe by 2020 he will phase out his serial ports completely
Sorry to disappoint, but my latest automation system (automates the house, with touch screen, media server, media players, light , AC control etc) uses serial ;-E
dinasaurs became extinct because they could not adapt ;-)
The dinos are doing quite well - as birds. In passing, the predecessors of the dinos, the crocs, and their predecessors the turtles are having a ball. So with a little bit of wool we may conclude that predecessors of valves - mechanical switches will do very well in the future. I am talking of optical computing. And fibre optic links. Both of which use micro mecahnical switches.
USB is meant for bulk bursty data. It is overkill for low speed (like gps data), and a poor performer for sustained through puts, or long cables. Apart from that, usb devices for embedded systems was horrendously buggy (Nagarjuna did the serial-to-usb dongle work yesterday?) and adds Rs.500 to the cost.
So usb is bad on costs for the gps case. USB is horrible for the automation case of long cables.
Also USB to serial are now available easily once again.
On Thursday 16 December 2010 12:58 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 12:30 +0530, jtd wrote:
Also USB to serial are now available easily once again.
not in Ooty
Ah! Paradise. You must be freezing now.
On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 19:58 +0530, Rony wrote:
On Thursday 16 December 2010 12:58 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 12:30 +0530, jtd wrote:
Also USB to serial are now available easily once again.
not in Ooty
Ah! Paradise. You must be freezing now.
Paradise?? a place where you cannot get a usb-serial dongle cannot be termed paradise.
Is there a site describing this device,
1. its usage ( meaning what kind of data capture/mapping is this designed for , other than tracing paths) 2. cost 3. availability 4. etc
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Nagarjuna G nagarjun@gnu.org.in wrote:
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Mukesh Yadav mak.gnu@gmail.com wrote:
I'm curious to about the device and how it works.
Have a spectacle of the spectacle cased GPS made by JTD.
http://gnowledge.org/~nagarjun/spectacle-case-gps.jpghttp://gnowledge.org/%7Enagarjun/spectacle-case-gps.jpg
The two USB sockets go to the laptop, one of them for power (the device has no battery) and the other dumps the data to through the serial port (in this case it is usually /dev/ttyUSB0). We have to install and run gpsd, configured to look at the serial port mentioned. You also need either tangogps or Markaarter, or Qlandkarte to view the tracks while mapping. you can add waypoints and take logs and also upload them to openstreetmap.org
Our next trip to mapping is scheduled for 18th of this month. interested people may send an email off the list to me. we can coordinate where to meet etc.
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, jitendra jituviju@gmail.com wrote:
Is there a site describing this device,
1. its usage ( meaning what kind of data capture/mapping is this designed for , other than tracing paths)
It does nothing other than tracking on a 32 channel GPS. It does one thing, and does it well.
2. cost
about 6k. This 6k model is with batteries and internal memory, and ability to add wavepoints. No display though. It can be used independently. What is great with this model: get a fix within 60sec.
we can do more R&D and come out with more advancements if people support by buying these models.
-- GN
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Nagarjuna G nagarjun@gnu.org.in wrote:
about 6k. This 6k model is with batteries and internal memory, and ability to add wavepoints. No display though. It can be used independently. What is great with this model: get a fix within 60sec.
we can do more R&D and come out with more advancements if people support by buying these models.
I have one of these http://www.flickr.com/photos/runa-sankarshan/tags/gpsdataloggers/ and I have to say that these are fairly nice and rugged.
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 10:55 +0530, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:
I have one of these
I have two which have been working perfectly for the last 3 years. The batteries are the older nokia batteries and last for 6-7 hours. I did a 12 hour trip the other day and logged the whole trip - recharged when I stopped for breakfast and lunch. The antenna is magnetic and has a 3 meter cable so it is ideal for sticking on the roof of a car. When walking, the device can be put in the backpack and the antenna clipped to collar of the shirt (under the sweater so no one can see it and get suspicious).
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 08:35 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote:
we can do more R&D and come out with more advancements if people support by buying these models.
well last time I discussed with jtd, he said with about 1.2L he can build two prototypes of an inch accurate device which could be manufactured for around 40K a piece (government is using devices which cost 7L a piece)
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 11:41 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 08:35 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote:
we can do more R&D and come out with more advancements if people support by buying these models.
well last time I discussed with jtd, he said with about 1.2L he can build two prototypes of an inch accurate device which could be manufactured for around 40K a piece (government is using devices which cost 7L a piece)
With this new low cost device, the Govt. should integrate GPS plotting with the PWD and everytime they widen roads or make any changes or even re-tar the roads, they update the GPS records.
On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 19:53 +0530, Rony wrote:
well last time I discussed with jtd, he said with about 1.2L he can build two prototypes of an inch accurate device which could be manufactured for around 40K a piece (government is using devices
which
cost 7L a piece)
With this new low cost device, the Govt. should integrate GPS plotting with the PWD and everytime they widen roads or make any changes or even re-tar the roads, they update the GPS records.
which is what we are doing with openstreetmap. Please join the movement.
On Monday 20 December 2010 07:01 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 19:53 +0530, Rony wrote:
well last time I discussed with jtd, he said with about 1.2L he can build two prototypes of an inch accurate device which could be manufactured for around 40K a piece (government is using devices
which
cost 7L a piece)
With this new low cost device, the Govt. should integrate GPS plotting with the PWD and everytime they widen roads or make any changes or even re-tar the roads, they update the GPS records.
which is what we are doing with openstreetmap. Please join the movement.
I find it strange that the general public has to do this by walking on the streets at remote locations. Not that the people should not do it. It should be a proper Govt. initiative with well paid personnel and proper transportation arrangements.
On Tue, 2010-12-21 at 17:18 +0530, Rony wrote:
re-tar the roads, they update the GPS records.
which is what we are doing with openstreetmap. Please join the
movement. I find it strange that the general public has to do this by walking on the streets at remote locations.
we do not *have* to do it - we do it because it is fun
Not that the people should not do it. It should be a proper Govt. initiative with well paid personnel and proper transportation arrangements.
thats what the chinese do - but this is not china
On Sunday 19 December 2010 19:53:17 Rony wrote:
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 11:41 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 08:35 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote:
we can do more R&D and come out with more advancements if people support by buying these models.
well last time I discussed with jtd, he said with about 1.2L he can build two prototypes of an inch accurate device which could be manufactured for around 40K a piece (government is using devices which cost 7L a piece)
With this new low cost device, the Govt. should integrate GPS plotting with the PWD and everytime they widen roads or make any changes or even re-tar the roads, they update the GPS records.
You dont require gps - most of the time. ISRO cartosats have all the stuff down to .5 mtr res. Ofcourse after using public money to generate all that data, they have no qualms in pirating the stuff as their own and selling it for rs.200 per 100sq mtr. Third rate citizens that we are, we are restricted to a site known as bhuvan, which is a doze only site and does not work on doze either. Ayear after grandiose announcements and proly a whole lot of public money in the drain, the site is dead.
It takes a very special brand of idiocy to achive this, when the free GIS systems and tools simply work without any effort at all.
We had a grea time on Saturday mapping several places around khalapur. Shekhar Krishnan, one of the guys who got us started on this in 2007 thru the freemap workshop was present. His anecdotes on Mumbai's urban history was absolutely riveting. He has some very exiting stuff on hand - stay tuned.
DD shayadri was also there. WE ARE GOING TO BE TV STARS. Oh well, maybe not. But atleast the FOSS message on GIS and libre knowledge will spread.
We put those loggers to good use. Our "spectacle case GPS" as usual works like a charm - Dr.Nagurjuna, Erle Schyuler and afaik Sanjay Bhangar are the only owners of this on earth. Everyone decided that the loggers must be built in a spectacle box. My wife Punit - the person who actually manages to make our crazy ideas into devices and products - was also there and cant stop raving about the trip. Shekhar and Nagarjuna have a whole lot of ideas on the UI, so more work for Punit.
We should organise a mapcamp in khalapur or some similiar area. The Mumbai Amateur Radio Association runs such a field trip for training it's members on disaster and emergency use of Amateur radio. and it can be a nice template. Infact a collab with those guys would be really great.
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 18:01:15 jitendra wrote:
Is there a site describing this device,
- its usage ( meaning what kind of data capture/mapping is this
designed for , other than tracing paths)
32 channel, 4MB serial flash, external antenna. It does only one thing trace paths and log way points when a button is clicked. Anotation of way points has to be done offline as it has no display, writing on paper then transferring to pc works remarkably well (as compared to mucking around with stupid menus and tiny keys to enter single characters). We can provide display and sensor interfaces for customised applications.
- cost
7K
- availability
Off the shelf
- etc
Better than 2.5M accuracy, fast fix, cusomisable.
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:08 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
Students might be interested in this.
Good initiative. Similar system is waze (waze.com). It is a mobile app for Android/IPhone/Symbian that automatically collects GPS tracks if it is running. These tracks are uploaded and are then available for to use (in form of GPX) on its site.
Users get free turn-by-turn direction. It also captures traffic jams etc in real time and broadcasts to users in vicinity or users that are heading in that direction. Users can mark errors in map and record new roads.
Primary benefit is, it is very easy to use and does not require any technical knowledge. So chances of broader usage are higher.
-Shamit
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Shamit Verma subs.linux.mum@vshamit.comwrote:
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:08 AM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
Students might be interested in this.
Good initiative. Similar system is waze (waze.com). It is a mobile app for Android/IPhone/Symbian that automatically collects GPS tracks if it is running. These tracks are uploaded and are then available for to use (in form of GPX) on its site.
Users get free turn-by-turn direction. It also captures traffic jams etc in real time and broadcasts to users in vicinity or users that are heading in that direction. Users can mark errors in map and record new roads.
Primary benefit is, it is very easy to use and does not require any technical knowledge. So chances of broader usage are higher.
A mobile phone's AGPS is too off mark in giving locations. I have seen it in the google maps application on my cell phone. Sattelite based GPS is designed to be accurate. GPS using mobile towers is an add-on feature.
-- As a proper list etiquette... Please trim your replies. Post your replies below the relevant original text, leaving a line space. Do not re-use old messages to write new ones.
Regards,
Rony.
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 03:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 12:31 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
A mobile phone's AGPS is too off mark in giving locations.
agps does not mean gps using cell phone towers. It uses cellphone towers to speed up fixing the location. You can switch off this feature.
My mistake. I was referring to mobile phone gps. It is not very accurate. In google maps on my phone, my location is off by about 200 to 300 meters. Not good for giving directions as I am not present on that spot. A left or right turn based on this perceived location can be disastrous.
Sine we are on this topic, I could not help think aloud. A good option in cities would be to have cheap low power RFID type directional transmitters on every electric pole along the road or additional stumps where pole are absent, and only someone in close proximity will receive the signals. Cannot go off-track here. It could also be used for future driverless automobiles. The vehicle moves from pole to pole. Roads that turn or curve can have guide rails at the curve that have a series of such transmitters to guide vehicles on the turn. To center the vehicle, such transmitters can be embedded inside the road dividers to keep vehicles from straying in the opposite lane. The transmitters could be sealed disposable units for easier maintainance. The vehicle measures the signals from both sides and makes its calculations. Proximity sensors along the vehicle sides keep it safe from collisions through speed control and auto steering and braking. This system can work even in tunnels and underground roads.
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 23:08:41 Rony wrote:
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 03:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 12:31 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
A mobile phone's AGPS is too off mark in giving locations.
agps does not mean gps using cell phone towers. It uses cellphone towers to speed up fixing the location. You can switch off this feature.
My mistake. I was referring to mobile phone gps. It is not very accurate. In google maps on my phone, my location is off by about 200 to 300 meters. Not good for giving directions as I am not present on that spot. A left or right turn based on this perceived location can be disastrous.
GPS in mobiles have 12channel recievers with only 6 in use. Besides the RF noise in a mobile is very very high and results i n very poor GPS sensitivity and accuracy.
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 23:08 +0530, Rony wrote:
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 03:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 12:31 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
A mobile phone's AGPS is too off mark in giving locations.
agps does not mean gps using cell phone towers. It uses cellphone
towers
to speed up fixing the location. You can switch off this feature.
My mistake. I was referring to mobile phone gps. It is not very accurate. In google maps on my phone, my location is off by about 200 to 300 meters. Not good for giving directions as I am not present on that spot. A left or right turn based on this perceived location can be disastrous.
either you need a new phone or google maps are inaccurate. In Mumbai, on openstreetmap, my phone is accurate to about 10-20 meters which is less than the width of the roads.
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 11:37 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 23:08 +0530, Rony wrote:
My mistake. I was referring to mobile phone gps. It is not very accurate. In google maps on my phone, my location is off by about 200 to 300 meters. Not good for giving directions as I am not present on that spot. A left or right turn based on this perceived location can be disastrous.
either you need a new phone or google maps are inaccurate. In Mumbai, on openstreetmap, my phone is accurate to about 10-20 meters which is less than the width of the roads.
I have an application called Google Maps in my mobile ( Samsung Star ). I doub't if there is a GPS in my mobile. The application opens up with my current location as the default map. It has a tiny spot which indicates my location. I believe it uses some triangulation from the cell phone towers. I re-checked my location and it is off-set by about 60 to 70 meters.
On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 19:49 +0530, Rony wrote:
either you need a new phone or google maps are inaccurate. In
Mumbai, on
openstreetmap, my phone is accurate to about 10-20 meters which is
less
than the width of the roads.
I have an application called Google Maps in my mobile ( Samsung Star ). I doub't if there is a GPS in my mobile. The application opens up with my current location as the default map. It has a tiny spot which indicates my location. I believe it uses some triangulation from the cell phone towers. I re-checked my location and it is off-set by about 60 to 70 meters.
buy a decent phone and use openstreetmap
On Sunday 19 December 2010 19:49:20 Rony wrote:
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 11:37 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 23:08 +0530, Rony wrote:
My mistake. I was referring to mobile phone gps. It is not very accurate. In google maps on my phone, my location is off by about 200 to 300 meters. Not good for giving directions as I am not present on that spot. A left or right turn based on this perceived location can be disastrous.
either you need a new phone or google maps are inaccurate. In Mumbai, on openstreetmap, my phone is accurate to about 10-20 meters which is less than the width of the roads.
I have an application called Google Maps in my mobile ( Samsung Star ). I doub't if there is a GPS in my mobile. The application opens up with my current location as the default map. It has a tiny spot which indicates my location. I believe it uses some triangulation from the cell phone towers. I re-checked my location and it is off-set by about 60 to 70 meters.
This one uses the cell servers for triangulation and sends back a lat-lon co-ord to the cell. The tower sends time stamped sig, the phone rplies back and the backend server connected to the tower does the calc.
On Monday 20 December 2010 11:37 AM, jtd wrote:
On Sunday 19 December 2010 19:49:20 Rony wrote:
I have an application called Google Maps in my mobile ( Samsung Star ). I doub't if there is a GPS in my mobile. The application opens up with my current location as the default map. It has a tiny spot which indicates my location. I believe it uses some triangulation from the cell phone towers. I re-checked my location and it is off-set by about 60 to 70 meters.
This one uses the cell servers for triangulation and sends back a lat-lon co-ord to the cell. The tower sends time stamped sig, the phone rplies back and the backend server connected to the tower does the calc.
Hmm!
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com wrote:
My mistake. I was referring to mobile phone gps. It is not very accurate. In google maps on my phone, my location is off by about 200 to 300 meters. Not good for giving directions as I am not present on that spot. A left or right turn based on this perceived location can be disastrous.
Check raw GPS data for your phone. It should show number of sats and signal strength of each, It would also show accuracy of current position.
In my phone (Nokia 5230 and N82), location accuracy is about 10 - 15 meters which is good enough for this task. This is in Mumbai. Accuracy is better on highways since more sats are visible.
Dedicated GPS units have better accuracy, E.g. my Garmin unit has accuracy of 5 - 10 meters in Mumbai.
-Shamit
2010/12/14 Rony gnulinuxist@gmail.com:
On Tuesday 14 December 2010 03:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 12:31 +0530, Rony Bill wrote:
A mobile phone's AGPS is too off mark in giving locations.
My mistake. I was referring to mobile phone gps. It is not very accurate. In google maps on my phone, my location is off by about 200 to 300 meters.
I think this depends on the phone (manufacturer, who gets to decide how accurate the phone should be). My N900 I think is fairly accurate, in the sense that it even locates me on the right side of single carriageway roads. I have a screenshot of raw GPS dump here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/binand/Screenshots#5552559201771080626
Which seems to suggest that it is only about 10m off.
Binand
-
Binand Sethumadhavan -
jitendra -
jtd -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Mukesh Yadav -
Nagarjuna G -
pavithran s -
Rony -
Rony Bill
-
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay -
Shamit Verma