Dear FSF India friends,
I am looking for a free software substitute for Google forms. I would really appreciate if you can suggest something on urgent basis. I wish to turn down 2 requests in which students are being forced to fill their information in Google forms.
Thanks and regards, SS
I am looking for a free software substitute for Google forms. I would
really appreciate if you can suggest something on urgent basis.
https://www.kobotoolbox.org/ is a free software alternative for Google Forms. I cannot recommend you to use that because it installs Google Analytics cookies in the visitor's browser. In other words, the central server https://www.kobotoolbox.org/ front end is nonfree software because it contains Google Analytics cookies which is nonfree.
If you would like to use this alternative, please request the visitors to use Privacy Badger plugin which will block the Google Analytics cookies. uBlock origin also blocks the GA.
My suggestion is that they can send students the questions or entries that they would like to collect using Google Forms from the students in the mail.
Like, in the mail itself create a form such as:
Fill the following details:
Name: Date of Birth:
etc.
I wish to turn down 2 requests in which students are being forced to fill their information in Google forms.
In my opinion, the requests should be turn down. No one should be forced to fill Google Forms for education.
Thanks Ravi. I actually emailed them saying that I will gather the student data offline and then send them one datafile by email. I know that such requests must be turned down but you know how it works. People think that temporary convenience is more important than freedom.
Snehal,
I am curious on what is students' take in your department on software freedom. On the other note, even if the students don't care about freedom, it is the institute's responsibility to not force proprietary software on the students. If the institute is not aware of the free software ideas, then they at least have the responsibility to listen to students, parents or other people who raise these issues. Many people from the institute do not even listen when we raise such issues.
On 2021, മാർച്ച് 12 11:24:06 AM IST, Ravi Dwivedi ravi@anche.no wrote:
I am looking for a free software substitute for Google forms. I would
really appreciate if you can suggest something on urgent basis.
https://www.kobotoolbox.org/ is a free software alternative for Google Forms. I cannot recommend you to use that because it installs Google Analytics cookies in the visitor's browser. In other words, the central server https://www.kobotoolbox.org/ front end is nonfree software because it contains Google Analytics cookies which is nonfree.
You are mixing up issues here. I don't think cookies are non-free. They are not essential for the functionality of the form as you already explained. You can block them easily.
And it is Free Software, so anyone is free to host an instance without google analytics.
I don't think it is a good idea to lose nuances and give same priority to all the problems in the world.
I'd consider moving to kobotoolbox an improvement in software freedom.
Free Software is not about free of cost services.
If you would like to use this alternative, please request the visitors to use Privacy Badger plugin which will block the Google Analytics cookies. uBlock origin also blocks the GA.
My suggestion is that they can send students the questions or entries that they would like to collect using Google Forms from the students in the mail.
I don't think this is a scalable approach. We don't want to completely reject the benefits of software because one of the services uses google analytics cookies.
Like, in the mail itself create a form such as:
Fill the following details:
Name: Date of Birth:
etc.
I wish to turn down 2 requests in which students are being forced to fill their information in Google forms.
In my opinion, the requests should be turn down. No one should be forced to fill Google Forms for education.
You are mixing up issues here. I don't think cookies are non-free.
Sorry for that.
They are not essential for the functionality of the form as you
already explained. You can block them easily.
And it is Free Software, so anyone is free to host an instance
without google analytics.
Yes.
My main point is that the central server install Google Analytics cookies in the browser. So beware. I won't prefer that central server.
I don't think it is a good idea to lose nuances and give same
priority to all the problems in the world.
The main nuance which matters here, I think, and which makes this software different from Google Forms is that you have a defence so that you can avoid the data entered to be send to Google.
The following is not related to this case but it is my general remark on the nuances statement:
We can decide for ourselves which nuances matter for us.
For example, free software movement does not consider some non-free software as more ethical than the other non-free program. It considers all nonfree software as equally unethical.
Let me quote https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw "While we can distinguish various nonfree distribution schemes in terms of how far they fall short of being free, we consider them all equally unethical."
There are nuances in how much freedom proprietary programs give but we don't think those nuances are worth considering. Any of you can decide if you would like to consider those nuances--that some proprietary software gives more freedom than the other proprietary program-- in your personal life. Depends on the case and the person's priorities.
If I avoid using messenger systems which make phone number as mandatory for the service, I don't want to consider further nuances before rejecting them. You don't have to see that way. You can consider further nuances before making a personal choice.
Now in the case of Kobotoolbox, software freedom nuance(I think) matters and gives us a real defence against tracking while Google Forms does not.
On 2021, മാർച്ച് 12 9:24:48 PM IST, Ravi Dwivedi ravi@anche.no wrote:
You are mixing up issues here. I don't think cookies are non-free.
Sorry for that.
They are not essential for the functionality of the form as you
already explained. You can block them easily.
And it is Free Software, so anyone is free to host an instance
without google analytics.
Yes.
My main point is that the central server install Google Analytics cookies in the browser. So beware. I won't prefer that central server.
I don't think it is a good idea to lose nuances and give same
priority to all the problems in the world.
The main nuance which matters here, I think, and which makes this software different from Google Forms is that you have a defence so that you can avoid the data entered to be send to Google.
The following is not related to this case but it is my general remark on the nuances statement:
We can decide for ourselves which nuances matter for us.
For example, free software movement does not consider some non-free software as more ethical than the other non-free program. It considers all nonfree software as equally unethical.
Let me quote https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw "While we can distinguish various nonfree distribution schemes in terms of how far they fall short of being free, we consider them all equally unethical."
There are nuances in how much freedom proprietary programs give but we don't think those nuances are worth considering. Any of you can decide if you would like to consider those nuances--that some proprietary software gives more freedom than the other proprietary program-- in your personal life. Depends on the case and the person's priorities.
If I avoid using messenger systems which make phone number as mandatory for the service, I don't want to consider further nuances before rejecting them. You don't have to see that way. You can consider further nuances before making a personal choice.
Now in the case of Kobotoolbox, software freedom nuance(I think) matters and gives us a real defence against tracking while Google Forms does not.
The difference here is, these are not essential features required for the functionality. For example even when a site use non-free JavaScript, if the site works with Libre JS plugin, won't you visit that webpage?
I don't think this is a scalable approach. We don't want to
completely reject the benefits of software because one of the services uses google analytics cookies.
I was talking about rejecting that server. But I don't know any other instance.
On 2021, മാർച്ച് 12 9:27:29 PM IST, Ravi Dwivedi ravi@anche.no wrote:
I don't think this is a scalable approach. We don't want to
completely reject the benefits of software because one of the services uses google analytics cookies.
I was talking about rejecting that server. But I don't know any other instance.
I don't think that thinking is a sustainable one. If something is important, we have to create that service collectively. We cannot say Freedom in the so called 'cloud' is only a matter of choosing what is currently available. If we can organize enough people, we can run such a service.
Rejecting it may be easier option, but we can't always expect freedom to be easy.
I don't think that thinking is a sustainable one. If something is
important, we have to create that service collectively. We cannot say Freedom in the so called 'cloud' is only a matter of choosing what is currently available. If we can organize enough people, we can run such a service.
Rejecting it may be easier option, but we can't always expect freedom
to be easy.
Remember that we can always collect data by asking them to send form via emails. Also, we can send the form via KoboToolbox form to people and say:
1. block google analytics cookies
2. if they don't prefer filling form via that form, they can send the details asked via mail.
In this case, the visitor can either avoid the server or block the cookies. Both are acceptable to me.
On 2021, മാർച്ച് 13 2:48:20 PM IST, Ravi Dwivedi ravi@anche.no wrote:
I don't think that thinking is a sustainable one. If something is
important, we have to create that service collectively. We cannot say Freedom in the so called 'cloud' is only a matter of choosing what is currently available. If we can organize enough people, we can run such a service.
Rejecting it may be easier option, but we can't always expect freedom
to be easy.
Remember that we can always collect data by asking them to send form via emails. Also, we can send the form via KoboToolbox form to people and say:
block google analytics cookies
if they don't prefer filling form via that form, they can send the
details asked via mail.
But that adds extra manual work for the person collecting data.
We need to change our attitude here and actively create the services we want. It may take longer to actually build it, but if no one is actually even thinking about it, how will it ever get solved?
This whole 'cloud' thing needs us to think beyond just being a user and think ourselves as service providers. It is not only for technical people, there are many ways non technical people can be a part of it.
We usually have technical people to run the service, but not enough volunteers to manage fund raising. Often the same technical people have to also take care of non technical tasks of running the service.
In this case, the visitor can either avoid the server or block the cookies. Both are acceptable to me.
We need to change our attitude here and actively create the services
we want. It may take longer to actually build it, but if no one is actually even thinking about it, how will it ever get solved?
This whole 'cloud' thing needs us to think beyond just being a user
and think ourselves as service providers. It is not only for technical people, there are many ways non technical people can be a part of it.
We usually have technical people to run the service, but not enough
volunteers to manage fund raising. Often the same technical people have to also take care of non technical tasks of running the service.
You are right.
You are mixing up issues here. I don't think cookies are non-free.
I don't know much but if we go at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics and then in technology section, it says that Google Analytics is a Javascript code, which means it is a software running in your browser.
I presumed GA Javascript to be nonfree.
What am I missing? How is cookies not non-free?
On 2021, മാർച്ച് 12 9:30:00 PM IST, Ravi Dwivedi ravi@anche.no wrote:
You are mixing up issues here. I don't think cookies are non-free.
I don't know much but if we go at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics and then in technology section, it says that Google Analytics is a Javascript code, which means it is a software running in your browser.
I presumed GA Javascript to be nonfree.
What am I missing?
Currently you need to use plugins to avoid non-free js for regular web browsing too, so this is not something specific to this service.
How is cookies not non-free?
Cookies are just data stored on your browser and send back to the server when you visit that site again. It does not involve running any code.
Cookies is not a Free Software problem. Free Software services can also set cookies. It is an issue of tracking and the defense we have is self host without GA.
Also another option is Next Cloud forms which I mentioned already and disroot.org offers it.
https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/forms
Currently you need to use plugins to avoid non-free js for regular
web browsing too, so this is not something specific to this service.
Yes, I see your point. It is the same when we share a news article with someone.
On 2021, മാർച്ച് 13 2:44:19 PM IST, Pirate Praveen praveen@onenetbeyond.org wrote:
On 2021, മാർച്ച് 12 9:30:00 PM IST, Ravi Dwivedi ravi@anche.no wrote:
You are mixing up issues here. I don't think cookies are non-free.
I don't know much but if we go at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics and then in technology section, it says that Google Analytics is a Javascript code, which means it is a software running in your browser.
I presumed GA Javascript to be nonfree.
What am I missing?
Currently you need to use plugins to avoid non-free js for regular web browsing too, so this is not something specific to this service.
How is cookies not non-free?
Cookies are just data stored on your browser and send back to the server when you visit that site again. It does not involve running any code.
Cookies is not a Free Software problem. Free Software services can also set cookies. It is an issue of tracking and the defense we have is self host without GA.
Also another option is Next Cloud forms which I mentioned already and disroot.org offers it.
I think we should add these options in the article on why educational institutions should use Free Software.
On 2021, മാർച്ച് 12 7:19:17 AM IST, Snehal M Shekatkar snehal@inferred.co wrote:
Dear FSF India friends,
I am looking for a free software substitute for Google forms. I would really appreciate if you can suggest something on urgent basis. I wish to turn down 2 requests in which students are being forced to fill their information in Google forms.
I think next cloud has a forms plugin and disroot provide such a service already. Since you already use Next Cloud, you can install this plugin or use the disroot hosted service.
Thanks and regards, SS
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Pirate Praveen -
Ravi Dwivedi -
Snehal M Shekatkar