Fsf-friends October 2002

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

27 participants
55 discussions

not using sourceforge
by Sayamindu Dasgupta 12 Oct '02

12 Oct '02

Hello, I want to start a Free project of my own (a centralised place for Unicode compliant Bangla fonts) , and I do not want to use sourceforge. I was looking for alternatives The first one that cam to my mind was savannah.gnu.org But, for some reason, they have not responded to my Project proposal (it is almost 1.5 weeks now) So, I was thinking of some other place - https://developer.berlios.de/ Can anyone advice me on this site - do they have licensing terms similar to srcfrge?? -iti- sayamindu

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Re: LINK: Open domain software meet
by Arun M 12 Oct '02

12 Oct '02

> Open Domain Software Movement has gained momentum in recent years. Open > software is increasingly viewed as a panacea to the digital divide and a > means of providing cost effective e-governance. > > Many countries are ready to exploit the benefits of Open Source software > by framing policies encouraging the use of open source > software wherever possible. Open software are usually copyrighted or > copylefted. While they are generally freely distributable, > there are certain redistribution and reusability guidelines that require > the attention of every user of that software. I was just wondering, in India, do we really have 'Open Source Movement', less a 'Open Domain Software Movement'. What is the role of Open Source Movement !!! Is it really a Movement or just a 'mask' some people wanted, to further their commercial interest ? I think Fred's interview with Rishab Aiyer, gives some idea. <snip> In the developer survey (part 4), one interesting result was, despite the adoption of the term "open source" among most of the media and support structure (e.g., O'Reilly, Slashdot, Sourceforge), developers themselves identify with the term free software by a huge margin. </snip> It tells who dont wants to say Free Software, its not Developer nor the User.

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]Open IT - Govt to rewrite source code in Linux
by Frederick Noronha 11 Oct '02

11 Oct '02

Inspite of all one's enthusiasm about Free Software and Open Source, it's hard to be too sure or optimistic about the story below. If government decides on such policies (i) shouldn't the policy decision be taken openly, on the record and without the possibility of any later hanky-panky? (ii) is nobody willing to take responsibility for such a stand -- which is very welcome -- and say so publicly? (iii) if not, why should we not conclude that this is just some kind of kite-flying, which actually may be intended to pressurise some 'proprietory solutions' vendors to come up for equally behind-closed-doors negotiations? In a neighbouring country, Pakistan, some quaters at least were trying to use the GNU/Linux-is-great argument to get Microsoft to reduce its prices. [One recalls times when a number of attempts were made to appeal to Microsoft to offer discounts for the use of their products in schools. These appeals were studiously ignored, or snubbed. Today, when there is a growing demand for GNU/Linux being implemented in schools (inspite of blocks like a Microsoft-products-only syllabus in parts of India), the proprietory coders are willing to offer 'special discounts'.] It might be a good thing if companies like Microsoft could be convinced to offer more realistic prices to the Third World (just as, say, book publishers have special prices for South Asia, which are one-seventh or less of the Western prices) to take care of the lower earning capacity and the unfair exchange rate we get for our currencies. But it would be surely a better thing to ask fundamental questions about what should be the nature of software, whether knowledge should be meant primarily to harvest profits or to meet desperate human needs. Free Software and/or Open Source needs to be adopted not just as a cheaper option, or a matter of convenience, but as a rational choice that would -- in some small way -- make ours a less iniquiteous world by taking the gift of skills and knowledge to those who need it so badly. -FN PS: To put things very bluntly, is this report a plant? If not, then let's see that scrap of paper which would make it something more than loud thinking..... On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Ashish Kotamkar wrote: > Open IT - Govt to rewrite source code in Linux > TIMES NEWS NETWORK [ WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 09, 2002 01:29:29 AM] > http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?artid=24598339 > > NEW DELHI: If the Chinese have IT, get it. The Indian government seems to be > taking a leaf out of China's operating system, and is planning a countrywide > drive to promote the open source operating system, Linux, as the 'platform > of choice' instead of 'proprietary' solutions. > > For proprietory, read Microsoft, which controls over 90% of the desktop > software market. > > The Department of Information Technology has already devised a strategy to > introduce Linux and open source software as a de-facto standard in academic > institutions, especially in engineering colleges through course work that > encourages use of such systems. > > Research establishments would be advised to use and develop re-distributable > toolboxes just as Central government departments and state governments would > be asked to use Linux-based offerings. > > DIT is in talks with leading industry players like IBM and HCL to get a feel > of their work in the area and invite proposals for joint projects. "As a > first step we are persuading all government institutions to offer courses on > Linux and programming for Linux environment. We would also set up Linux > Resource Centres in academic institutes (with co-funding from government and > industry)," said a senior government official. > > Though India has made a name for itself selling solutions, software as a > product is expensive within the country. And the cost will bite once India > starts implementing IPR protection in earnest, as it has committed itself > to. > > While redistribution of proprietary software is restricted through a licence > agreement, the licensing terms for Linux grants the right to obtain and > redistribute copies. Many analysts believe that China's growing dominance in > the IT space is fuelled by its low cost open source bias. > > The Chinese government has consistently promoted its local software based on > Linux, both for cost reasons, and reportedly for 'security' concerns as > well. > > The source code for proprietory software is not revealed, and this, it is > believed, has not found favour with the Chinese, especially in defence and > security related applications. > > Microsoft, in what many observers and reports say is an attempt to soften > the Chinese government's stand, recently committed to investing $750m in > China in three years to help set up a software college and put its money > into Chinese education. > > In comparison, Microsoft has announced investments worth only $75m over a > three-year time frame in India. Howver, the Chinese company Redflag > Software, which was set up by the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the country's > most prestigious research institute, has often come out with low-cost > software based on Linux, in direct competition to Windows-based software. > > The Indian government's plan, however, is not driven by security concerns, > but by the far more simple arithmetic of costing. To put it simply, India > being a developing country needs low cost solutions. > > Unlike the Microsoft-developed Windows operating system, Linux code is free > and downloadable from the internet. With the addition of special > applications, it can be personalized to meet specific needs. > > An industry-government-user-developer conference on the subject would be > organised to throw up ideas for specific initiatives including funding, > reliable sources told ET. > > The only issue here is support and services, which Indian government sources > feel is not likely to be an issue in a country known for its software > support and service skills. > > Like China, the government is also eyeing the increasingly lucrative global > support and services market for the Linux environment may prove lucrative. > While proprietary support agreements govern only the systems purchased (with > licences), for free software support is independent of the number of copies > owned. > > "With applications in security being a focus area, inputs have been sought > from the Defence on their experience with Linux. Indian-language based > solutions, e-governance, embedded and high performance cluster solutions are > other areas. But firstly we want to concretise the position on IPR issues in > the use of Linux," the source said. > > DIT is planning a three-tier mechanism, with itself as the first, industry, > user groups and state governments as the second and a national apex > committee headed either by a government representative, an industry expert > or an academician to oversee manpower and skill development, applications > development and deployment and public policy support, said sources. > > According to IDC's figures for '00, Microsoft still controlled 94% of the > desktop software market and while Linux is expected to overtake the number > two � Apple Mac OS � by '03, it would still control less than 4% of the > market. > > In server software, it fares a little better and is expected to control > around 30% of the market by '03, according to IDC. Linux, which has > established itself in the server space, is an open reliable OS that runs on > virtually any platform and was developd by Finnish technologist Linus > Torvalds. > > After developing the initial source code, Linus made it available on the > Internet for use, feedback and further development.

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SMALL GRANTS: Need resources to write Free Software?
by Frederick Noronha 11 Oct '02

11 Oct '02

Sarai/CSDS, a Delhi-based research network that realises the potential of Free/Open Source software, is offering a limited number of small grants (in three categories of under Rs 10,000; Rs 10-30,000; and Rs 30,000-60,000) for those willing to write socially-useful programmes and put these out in the public domain. Ownership of these programs will remain with its writer(s), under the GNU/GLP or similar suitable licence. But the coders will undertake to widely distribute and make available their work to those who desire to use the same, in the interest of promoting Free Software/Open Source in India. Email in your plans and suggestions via email to application(a)sarai.net with a copy to fred(a)bytesforall.org not later than October 31, 2002. Use "FLOSS application" as the subjectline. This should contain the following details: * Outline of project * How this project would be relevant to society's needs * Stage of the project (if work is underway) * Time-frame required for completion * Whether work will be done singly, or if jointly, names of all individuals/groups to be involved * Estimated number of man-hours for completion of this project * Estimated cost with break-up * Any other information you feel relevant. Last date for application is October 31, 2002. Feel free to pass around this note, particularly to students who could use such help productively.

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need a summary comparison of MS vs linux
by akr!linux-delhi.org＠linux-delhi.org 10 Oct '02

10 Oct '02

i need a quick and short summary comparison of MS versus Linux (or open source) deployment. i know that there could be several (google searchable) sites that i can troll. but if any of you have a ready document, or can point to the right website or url, i would be very grateful. basically the document should describe in short and non-technical language, the cost-benefit analysis, the non-monetary benefits, and long term vs short term implications of using open source/free software, as against proprietary software like MS. thanks in advance, ajit ranade. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

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INTERVIEW: Europe (and a desi) takes a deeper look at FLOSS
by Frederick Noronha 09 Oct '02

09 Oct '02

EUROPE TAKES A DEEPER LOOK AT FREE/LIBRE AND OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE... It is being viewed as a "major research project" coming out of Europe, that takes a detailed look at the reasons behind the growing use of Free and Open Source software. One of the key persons behind this study is Rishab Aiyer Ghosh, who moved from the Indian capital of New Delhi to Europe just a couple of years ago. Does Aiyer Ghosh see this report changing the way Free and Open Source software is seen? "Not necessarily," says he modestly. But then adds, almost as an after-thought: "But hopefully the study will increase the depth and clarity with which the phenomenon is understood." Commentators have already called this study perhaps the "first large-scale rigorous study concerning any aspect of free software". It included interviewers with thousands of developers and hundreds of businesses. Till a couple of years back, the 27-year-old Indian-born author of the study was based in Delhi, and closely involved in the Indian internet/telecom scene. He wrote for technical and mainstream publications too. Ghosh had his own newsletter, 'Indian Techonomist', which went out to people like Reed Hundt and Vint Cerf, and he wrote various consultation papers on the opening up Internet policy (especially to small providers) on the request of senior Indian government officials. Extracts from an exclusive interview Aiyer Ghosh <rishab at dxm dot org> had with Frederick Noronha <fred at bytesforall dot org>: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: What was your contribution in preparing the report? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I wrote the original proposal and workplan for the FLOSS study, and after approval from the EC (European Commission), was coordinator of the project consortium (University of Maastricht and Berlecon Research). I was lead author of the parts written at the university. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: How much time was put into it in all? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FLOSS was a 13 month project. there were three people at the university and three at Berlecon Research working on it. But I off-hand can't give you a person-hours breakdown! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: What was the most surprising finding/s? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- That's a hard question to answer. We weren't really surprised by our own findings, but from the user survey (Berlecon; final report part 1) the level of F/OSS use among organisations was higher than one might have expected (e.g. 6% of all companies use some F/OSS on the desktop). An important, though expected, finding was that licence fees were #3 on the list of reasons for user organisations choosing F/OSS -- stability and security were more important. In the developer survey (part 4) one interesting result was that despite the adoption of the term Open Source among most of the media and support structure (e.g. O'Reilly, Slashdot, Sourceforge) developers themselves identify themselves with the term free software by a huge margin. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: What are the aspects that are still to be researched on FLOSS, in your view? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Much more work needs to be done on measuring organisation and production of the software itself (started in part 5 of the report); lots of analysis remains to be done on the data from the developer survey. On the user side, due to a limited budget, FLOSS didn't ask organisations who said they don't use any F/OSS why they don't do so, which would have been interesting. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: This dilemma of explaianing why affluent Europe is increasing turning to FLOSS, how would you look at it? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't see that as a dilemma. I can imagine that licence fee savings are an attraction in developing countries, but arguably the total cost of ownership isn't necessarily much lower for f/oss than for proprietary solutions. Certainly, most advocacy in Europe emphasises other advantages rather than cost, which is a dubious advantage if it is one at all and easier to attack ("cheap" software must be bad...) As the user survey showed, F/OSS is being adopted more for stability and security than price. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: Besides this study, what have you been busy with since moving out of India? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- i moved to Maastricht in October 2000, and the FLOSS proposal was submitted that month. I've been working mostly full-time with this study and related research, and speak frequently on the topic of free software and the "cooking-pot market" model I developed to explain non-monetary economic activity on the Internet. (Ghosh explains the 'cooking pot model' at http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue3_3/ghosh/ ) I also continue my involvement as a founding editor of First Monday, the now very successful peer-reviewed Internet journal, and organised the first First Monday conference in Maastricht last year (www.infonomics.nl/newdefinitions/) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: Do you see this report as changing the way FLOSS is seen? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Not necessarily. But hopefully the study will increase the depth and clarity with which the phenomenon is understood. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: Could you tell us something about how you chose the word -- rather apt in my view -- FLOSS, to describe both Free Software and Open Source in one neat twist of phrase? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- European Commission projects often have long-winded titles and the official project acronym is therefore quite important. Early drafts of the project proposal were entitled Free/Open Source User and Developer Study. FOSUDS sounded rather less catchy than FLOSS, which also had the additional advantage of incorporating "Libre Software", a term that is hardly in use outside the french-speaking members of the EC bureaucracy, which is a pity. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- FN: If you had a chance to do this study all over again, what would you have done differently? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know, really, still digesting what we've just finished. But certainly we would have asked user organisations for reasons _not_ to use F/OSS... See the report at http://www.infonomics.nl/FLOSS/report/ For a photo of Aiyer Ghosh, please see http://www.infonomics.nl/niew/about/people_cv.php?id=81

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Re: [FSF-WG] [rajnibakshi@yahoo.com: Re: From Rajni Bakshi]
by klak＠giasbm01.vsnl.net.in 09 Oct '02

09 Oct '02

On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:43:14 -0400, Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> wrote: > Please tell him about the ways that Indian governments are > promoting Windows. > > From: rajni bakshi <rajnibakshi(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: From Rajni Bakshi > To: rms(a)gnu.org > Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:17:04 -0700 (PDT) > > Please send me more information about government's > forcing Windows on schools etc. Especially names and > contact numbers of people in India who are involved in > these issues. > It is not certain if I can write about this myself but > I will try and alter journalists who would write about > it. > Regards, > Rajni

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Profits from piracy
by klak＠giasbm01.vsnl.net.in 09 Oct '02

09 Oct '02

What we were really worried about is beginning to happen: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/09/26/piracy_unlimited/ Going "soft" on so-called piracy is now a part of MS's strategy, at least in China. (India next?) They have realised that "allowing" piracy to happen is an efficient way to fight free software. (Not to mention giving away free (zero-cost) licenses to entire school systems across states and countries) Forgive me for this "I told you so" attitude, but please see http://forum.gnu.org.in/1016695648/index_html where this strategy was predicted to stress why Cost should not be an Issue in the advocacy of free software. -- Khuzaima A. Lakdawala

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Good news for Linux(GNU Linux?)! On Economic Times today!
by N S Srikanth 09 Oct '02

09 Oct '02

Hi Listers Good news for Linux Lovers! Front Page cover story on Economic Times today (09/10/2002)! "Linux turns government's "Platform of choice"" It gives details about the IT ministry's broad guide lines and directives to promote Linux in Govt depts and more so in Engineering colleges. Isn't this good? Pl give your feedback. N S Srikanth Trivandrum

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RE:FLAG
by Kanti Jadia 08 Oct '02

08 Oct '02

I have come in contact with few people who would like to donate money for this cause. Now the problem is two fold. a.To whom should i direct this small amount of money. b.How can i further the cause so as to help them donate more.They have been using various free software's for some work and like the concept too. On the point of running informal Free Software User Groups. The group we need to form in nagpur will cater both as a FLUG as well as a GLUG. This in simple terms means that they will also provide help in formalising/configuring/using free software for certain needs. The monetory portion thus collected will be further directed towards promoting use of free software. We also plan to distribute free software cd's since they are not available locally. To support all these activities what things have to be done. From the following link http://plug.org.in/minutes.php i understand that a trust can be formed which will take care of the activities. Would like input from all patrons of FSF-India as well as the members. regards Kanti Jadia

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Fsf-friends October 2002