Fsf-friends January 2003

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

25 participants
49 discussions

by Manjush G.Menon

Original Message ----- From: "IT@School" <itschool(a)asianetindia.com> To: <manjushmenon(a)hotmail.com> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 5:08 PM Subject: Reply > Mr.Manjush G. Menon > We are not giving to depend totally on Ms. Products. Rather MS > Office is taught along with open office and Windows along with Linux > from this year. Arranging the resource persons for training an open > software, making available the software, the maintenance of a help desk > etc. are logistical issues which could not be immediately undertaken. > We plan switch out to open software within three years. > Executive Director > ---- Original Message ----- From: Manjush G. Menon To: itschool(a)asianetindia.com Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: Respected sir, From Manjush G. Menon, Sr.Programmer, Sofker Solutions Pvt Ltd, Kochi-18. To The Executive Director, 'IT @ SCHOOL' Project, SCERT Buildings, Poojapura, Thiruvananthapuram-12. Respected sir, SUB: In protest against the inclusion of products from multinational companies in the syllabus of 'IT @ SCHOOL' It's a very dissappointing fact that when the whole world is moving towards Free software, we at kerala are going behind a major MNC - Microsoft. I hereby register my protest in such an act from 'IT @ SCHOOL' Project team. Breaking of prototypes will definetly help us in finding economical and high quality products for our future generation. For students and programmers, the GNU Linux contains 'GNU Compiler Collections' which includes C, C++, FORTRAN, PERL, TCL etc. Also, for DTP and other publishing purposes, it includes GNU Office utilities like Abi-Word, gedit, and other worksheet utilities, all these with a nominal cost of Rs 700-800/-. The software as it is, is free and the cost is accounted towards the media (CD + Documentation) included. By this letter, I urge you to take this matter seriously and suggest necessary modifications in the action plan of 'IT @ SCHOOL' project. Wishing you all the best and wishing all 'Students @ SCHOOL' a bright future, Thanking you, Yours faithfully Manjush G. Menon. ______________________________________________________ Check out all the latest outrageous email attachments on the Outrageous Email Chart! - http://viral.lycos.co.uk

17 years, 8 months

PERUVIAN EFFORT COULD BAN MICROSOFT ON GOV. COMPUTERS (fwd)

by Frederick Noronha

Thanks to George Lessard for posting this across. FN ---------- Forwarded message ---------- PERUVIAN EFFORT COULD BAN MICROSOFT ON GOV. COMPUTERS Peruvian Congressman Edgar Villanueva is pushing legislation to obligate all public institutions to convert exclusively to open-source software. Open-source programs, embodied by the Linux operating system, have underlying code available to anyone who wants to modify or customize it. Such software, in unadorned form, can be downloaded from the Internet for free. Villanueva hopes his measure triggers activity in Peru's software industry by freeing programmers from the constraints of working with coding controlled by a few large companies. Open-source could take the expense out of software upgrades; which is important for a country like Peru that owes about $30 million in overdue software license fees. [SOURCE: San Jose Mercury, AUTHOR: Associated Press] (http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/news/3531007.htm)

18 years, 8 months

QUERY: Any suggestions how we could help these guys in any way?

by FN

... probably we need to help both Microsoft to get tighter, and those wanting to make the shift away... FN Microsoft on the prowl for unlicensed users in Kerala By Sanu George, Indo-Asian News Service Thiruvananthapuram, Jan 30 (IANS) In its drive against copyright infringement, Microsoft has sent undercover legal officials to catch computer resellers in Kerala using unlicensed versions of the software giant's programs. According to industry sources, four computer resellers have already been fined Rs.30,000 each for selling Microsoft products without licences and given a stern warning. "Two people posing as architects arrived at the office of a leading computer reseller and asked for the latest personal computer. After the machine was supplied with unlicensed software, the two architects revealed they were Microsoft officials and took action against the reseller," a reseller here told IANS, requesting anonymity. Sources said four resellers were sent notices and asked to meet the Microsoft attorney at a resort in suburban Thiruvananthapuram. "What we have been told is that they were all fined Rs.30,000 and let off with a warning," said a computer reseller. The Microsoft officials also visited a few computer institutes here and gathered information about the sellers who had supplied machines to them. All Kerala Computer Products and Dealers Association president John Kottara said while Microsoft was within its rights to act against unlicensed users, the industry was not sure how to respond to these undercover checks. "We have not yet decided how to handle this situation," Kottara said. J. Salim, who runs an IT institute here, told IANS: "In the long run, such raids might hamper the prospects of Microsoft." He added, "One way is to go in for Linux. This free operating system is becoming very popular." --Indo-Asian News Service

20 years, 4 months

Re: III World Social Forum and other musings

by FN

Taking the liberty of sharing Enrique's letter, which makes a lot of interesting points, with this list. FN On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Enrique A. Chaparro wrote: > Hi, Fred! > I've just came back from the III World Social Forum, held in Porto > Alegre, Brazil. The Forum is a response (and a rebuttal :) ) to the > World Economic Forum, and probably one of the most significant > political events in the world. This year, 100000+ people attended > the Forum; there were 20763 representatives of 5717 organizations > from 156 countries, and 4094 journalist of 1432 media covered the > event. > > The IT infrastructure of the event was deployed by Procempa (the > information services company owned by the Municpality of Porto > Alegre), based on free software. All the servers, and 80% of the > ~750 desktops were based on free software. > Debian-RS (the Debian users group of the State of Rio Grande do Sul) > installed and operated ~80 machines at the International Youth Camp > for the independent/alternative press media. > The delegates' registration and workshop scheduling systems were > based on PHP/MySQL. The three internet centers for public access > were based on Linux (RH)/Mozilla/Evolution/OpenOffice; OpenOffice > was also deployed on almost all the desktops (including the few > Windows ones). > We (hmmm... how to define `we'? a loosely coupled hacker community > from Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Canada, Italy and Spain...) made > several workshops one very disparate subjects: from how to manage > a radio with free software, to the implications for human rights > of political (WTO - WIPO - DMCA) and technological (TCPA - Palladium) > measures. > Unfortunately, we were unable to control the Forum's official > website ( http://www.forumsocialmundial.org.br/ ), M$-driven. One > of the workshops made the full conversion of the site to a free > platform (Zope), but I guess it was too late. > The Fourth World Social Forum will probably be held in India in 2004. > Thus, there are two open challenges for the indian free software > community: to make the WSF4 fully powered by free software; and to > increase the awareness of the relationships between software and > freedoms among the social organizations and the progressive forces > of the world. So, the challenges are open; now it's up to you :) > > In other news... > I would like to contact Prof G Nagarajuna, who you told me was > working on the field of free software in education. UNESCO is > organizing an international seminar on free software in education > in Peru for next June; having a paper from him would be great. > > And more... > I've been asked to write an article for `Le Monde Diplomatique' > in Spanish, on the relationships between software and society. > I will need lots of input, so I will be bothering you soon on > the issues in India, if you don't mind. > > Warmest regards from the Far South. > > Enrique > -- Frederick Noronha : http://www.bytesforall.org : When we speak of free Freelance Journalist : Goa India 403511 : software we refer to Ph 0091.832.409490 : Cell 0 9822 122436 : freedom, not price.

20 years, 4 months

NEWS: WSIS fails to agree on FLOSS 'support'... US objects

by FN

---------- Forwarded message ---------- http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/01/15/030115hnwsisos_1.html WSIS delegates fail to agree on open-source 'support' Draft was changed after objections by U.S. TOKYO -- A three-day meeting that brought together Asian governments, organizations, companies and non-governmental organizations (NGOs) ended Wednesday morning with the approval of a declaration that, among other things, calls for encouraging the development of open-source software. A draft of the declaration had called for open source to be "supported" but was changed after objections from the U.S. government delegation late Tuesday night. ADVERTISEMENT [20][336x280_25k.gif] [21][336x280_25k.gif] [22][article;abr=!ie;pos=imu;pkey=platforms;skey=os;paud=cto;saud=bizm gmt;saud=cio;sz=336x280;tile=3;ord=200301151450?] The U.S. opposition was largely perceived to be support for its domestic software companies and in particular Microsoft, said officials from other governments on the sidelines of the conference on Wednesday. After a short debate with a number of countries, including Pakistan, that wanted the original language to remain, all sides finally reached agreement and the declaration was changed to read: "Development and deployment of open-source software should be encouraged, as appropriate, as should open standards for ICT (information and communications technology) networking." The change was one of a number made during a late-night session at the end of the second day of the Asian Regional Conference. The event is one of a number of conferences being held around the world to solicit regional input for the World Summit on the Information Society, a government-leader level U.N. summit that will take place in December this year in Geneva, Switzerland, and in Tunis in 2005. At the meeting, representatives of 48 countries, 21 international organizations, 53 private sector entities and 116 NGOs discussed a number of issues related to the information society and debated over the content of the final output of the meeting, a document called the Tokyo Declaration. The declaration will go forward to a meeting in Geneva next month and bring together participants from around the world as part of the large planning process that must precede the December summit. The declaration touched on a wide range of issues related to the information society and included a call for greater information security, a balance between content owners and users in the area of intellectual property rights, and more work on the digital divide. The lack of awareness of the need for information security was recognized as a weakness for the Asia-Pacific region. The declaration touched upon the need for greater awareness of cybercrime and cyberterrorism while recognizing that equal and fair access to information technology is also important. "Special attention should be paid to the fact that ICTs can potentially be used for purposes that are inconsistent with the objectives of maintaining international stability and security, and may adversely affect the integrity of the infrastructure within states, to the detriment of their security in both civil and military fields," it said. In the area of copyright, the declaration recognized the "vital role" that intellectual property rights play in innovation in software, e-commerce and related areas, but also noted the need to strike a fair balance between such rights and the interests of users. The same two areas were identified by a Japanese government official as possible areas of which participants to WSIS in December will agree require the creation of a legal and policy framework that spans international borders. Agreement on the need to create a global legal and policy framework for the information society is one of several goals already identified for the summit. "I think the big issues that need to be tackled are intellectual property rights and information security," said Yoshio Tsukio, vice minister for policy coordination and Japan's Ministry of Public Management, Home Affairs, Posts and Telecommunications (MPHPT). The conference heard more pledges to bridge the digital divide and several points in the declaration focused on extending the benefits of the information society to the poor and otherwise disadvantaged. "The digital divide unfortunately is widening," said Kim Hak Su, the executive secretary of the United Nations Economic and Social Commission for the Asia-Pacific and the U.N.'s highest ranking official in Asia. "It is not only between the countries but within the countries and between generations and the able-bodied and disabled. The international community is trying to help to assist those countries who do not have a national strategy and a national political commitment is also essential. Also, the Government of Japan is offering a substantial ODA (overseas development aid) package to developing member countries," he told IDG News Service. "This digital divide will be with us for some years to come and we have to work very hard. There is no magic formula but we should work hard," he said. Kim admitted that promises to help have been made before and the problem often comes down to paying for things. "We need the private sector to do many things. Governments cannot do everything anymore." "We need more money and more discussion but Tokyo has set the direction," he said. "The direction is right and WSIS could be important because political commitment is also important." Speaking after the event, a number of NGOs that had taken part in the summit said they were broadly satisfied with the outcome but had hoped for greater commitment in a number of areas such as a social justice. They were satisfied with the inclusion of a reference to human rights in the declaration, despite some attempts to change it, they said. The groups also repeated protests over the deregistration of NGOs from Taiwan on Tuesday as the result of repeated protests by the Chinese government delegation. "There is discrimination against the principles of WSIS for a comprehensive inclusion of all stakeholders in the information society including civil society, which includes Taiwanese NGOs as well," said Chuang Chiting, the international affairs director of the Taiwan Association for Human Rights. "As Taiwan is a very powerful ICT country and it provides major input to the information society, we do hope our voices can be heard and be constructive towards a better future in the international community," she said. The representatives were allowed to stay at the meeting under the affiliation of a Japanese NGO. [23]Martyn Williams is a Tokyo correspondent for the IDG News Service, an InfoWorld affiliate.

20 years, 4 months

QUERY-GOA-SCHOOLS: regarding instruction manuals for linux

by FN

Query from someone working with the GNU/LinuxInSchools initiative in Goa. Could anyone help? FN On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Aparant Infomedia wrote: > > Dear Fred, > If I could get some simplified instruction manuals for Linux it will be > of great help to teachers in our schools. Can you please help me to lay > my hands on any such material. > Regds > sangeeta -- Frederick Noronha : http://www.bytesforall.org : When we speak of free Freelance Journalist : Goa India 403511 : software we refer to Ph 0091.832.409490 : Cell 0 9822 122436 : freedom, not price.

20 years, 4 months

Linux in the Workplace under GNU FDL

by FN

This book has been GNU FDL'd. Does it mean anyone can reprint it in India? If so, who? FN ------------------------------------------------------------------ LINUX JOURNAL PRESS RELEASES "LINUX IN THE WORKPLACE" UNDER GNU FDL Latest in a series of openly published books from No Starch Press imprint COMPLETE STORY: http://linuxpr.com/releases/5510.html ------------------------------------------------------------------

20 years, 4 months

Fwd: [Commons-Law] Who says patents are boring

by FN

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [Commons-Law] Who says patents are boring Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 14:57:27 +0530 (IST) From: lawrenceliang(a)vsnl.net To: commons-law(a)sarai.net thought it will be fun to have some postings about some entertaining patents/ patent claims. This one is forthe method of swinging on a swing Lawrence United States Patent 6,368,227 Olson April 9, 2002 Method of swinging on a swing Abstract A method of swing on a swing is disclosed, in which a user positioned on a standard swing suspended by two chains from a substantially horizontal tree branch induces side to side motion by pulling alternately on one chain and then the other. Inventors: Olson; Steven(337 Otis Ave., St. Paul, MN 55104) Appl. No.: 715198 Filed: November 17, 2000 Current U.S. Class: 472/118 Intern'l Class: A63G 009/00 Field of Search: 472/118,119,120,121,122,123,125 References Cited [Referenced By] U.S. Patent Documents 242601 Jun., 1881 Clement 472/118. 5413298 May., 1995 Perreault 248/228. Primary Examiner:Nguyen; Kien T. Attorney, Agent or Firm:Olson; Peter Lowell Claims I claim: 1. A method of swinging on a swing, the method comprising the steps of: a) suspending a seat for supporting a user between only two chains that are hung from a tree branch; b) positioning a user on the seat so that the user is facing a direction perpendicular to the tree branch; c) having the user pull alternately on one chain to induce movement of the user and the swing toward one side, and then on the other chain to induce movement of the user and the swing toward the other side; and d) repeating step c) to create side-to-side swinging motion, relative to the user, that is parallel to the tree branch. 2. The method of claim 1, wherein the method is practiced independently by the user to create the side-to-side motion from an initial dead stop. 3. The method of claim 1, wherein the method further comprises the step of: e) inducing a component of forward and back motion into the swinging motion, resulting in a swinging path that is generally shaped as an oval. 4. The method of claim 3, wherein the magnitude of the component of forward and back motion is less than the component of side-to-side motion. Description TECHNICAL FIELD The present invention relates to a method of swinging on a swing. BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION A few basic types of swings have been around for generations. Perhaps the most common is one that includes a seat suspended between two ropes or chains that are hung from a tree branch or other substantially horizontal support. These swings are often found in side-by-side sets of two or three or more on, for example, a school playground. Young children often need help to climb onto a swing, and may need a push (sometimes even an "underdog" push) to begin swinging. Others may be able to begin the swinging movement on their own by pushing with their feet against the ground, and once moving may coordinate the motion of their legs and body in what may be called "pumping" to sustain the movement of the swing. When swinging in this manner, the user travels along a path as generally shown in the cross-section of FIG. 1. Another method of swinging on a swing involves twisting the seat around repeatedly so that the chains or ropes are wound in a double helix. When allowed to unwind, the swing spins quickly, which can be entertaining for the user. These methods of swinging on a swing, although of considerable interest to some people, can lose their appeal with age and experience. A new method of swinging on a swing would therefore represent an advance of great significance and value. SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION In accordance with one embodiment of the present invention, a method is provided for swinging on a swing. The swing comprises a seat for supporting a user that is suspended between two chains that are hung from a substantially horizontal tree branch. The method comprises the steps of: a) positioning a user on the seat; and b) having the user pull alternately on one chain to induce movement of the user and the swing toward one side, and then on the other chain to induce movement of the user and the swing toward the other side, to create side-to-side motion. In another embodiment of the invention, the swinging method may be practiced independently by the user to create the side-to-side motion from an initial dead stop. These and other features of the invention are described in greater detail below. BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS FIG. 1 is a schematic top view of the swinging path of a swing used in accordance with conventional swinging methods. FIG. 2 is a front view of a swinging path of a swing used in accordance with one embodiment of the swinging method of the present invention. FIG. 3 is a schematic top view of a swinging path of a swing used in accordance with a second embodiment of the swinging method of the present invention. DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION The present inventor has created, through experimentation on a standard swing, a new and improved method of swinging. The swing is of the type described above, in which a seat is suspended between two chains that are hung from a substantially horizontal tree branch. As is apparent to those of ordinary skill in the area of swinging, the chains could be replaced with ropes, cables, or the like, or the tree branch could be replaced with another substantially horizontal support such as a metal bar or pole. The standard swing should be a single swing that is suspended sufficiently far away from obstructions to make the practice of the inventive swinging method completely safe. That is, the swing should be suspended a sufficient distance away from the trunk of the tree from which it suspended, and from any other swing, building, support, overhead wire, or other obstruction or threat to safety that may be present. The standard method of swinging on a swing is defined by oscillatory motion of the swing and the user along an axis that is substantially perpendicular to the axis of the tree branch from which the swing is suspended. This "forward and back" movement has been known for generations, and is illustrated in FIG. 1. In contrast to the conventional method of swinging, the present inventor has discovered that much greater satisfaction can be obtained by alternately pulling on one chain to move the swing and the user toward that side, and then pulling on the other chain to move the swing and the user toward that side. This side-to-side oscillatory motion of the swing and the user is thus along an axis that is substantially parallel to the axis of the tree branch from which the swing is suspended, and is illustrated in FIG. 2. This side to side swinging method has the added benefit that it can be continued for long periods of time simply by alternately pulling on one chain and then t! he other. The importance of sufficient clearance between the swing and any obstructions or threats to the user's safety is apparent. The present inventor has discovered certain other improvements in the art of swinging on a swing, either or both of which can be used in conjunction with the swinging method described immediately above. The first is that the inventive swinging method can be initiated from a dead stop without pushing, and without the user having to contact the ground. That is, the user can climb onto the swing, and begin from an initial dead stop to pull first on one chain, and then on the other chain, alternately until the user and the swing have begun to swing side-to-side in accordance with the inventive swinging method described herein. This enables even young users to swing independently and joyously, which is of great benefit to all. Another improvement on the swinging method described above is the induction into the side-to-side swinging movement of a component of forward-and-back motion. That is, by skillful manipulation of the body, the present inventor has found it possible to add a relatively minor component of forward-and-back motion to the side-to-side swinging motion, resulting in a swinging path that is generally shaped like an oval, as is shown in FIG. 3. It is preferred that the magnitude of the forward-and back motion (shown in FIG. 3 as being along the Y axis) be less than the magnitude of the side-to side motion (shown in FIG. 3 as being along the X axis), so that the latter predominates. In this manner, the motion can be more easily continued simply by alternately pulling on one chain and then the other in the manner described. Lastly, it should be noted that because pulling alternately on one chain and then the other resembles in some measure the movements one would use to swing from vines in a dense jungle forest, the swinging method of the present invention may be referred to by the present inventor and his sister as "Tarzan" swinging. The user may even choose to produce a Tarzan-type yell while swinging in the manner described, which more accurately replicates swinging on vines in a dense jungle forest. Actual jungle forestry is not required. Licenses are available from the inventor upon request. _______________________________________________ commons-law mailing list commons-law(a)mail.sarai.net http://mail.sarai.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/commons-law -------------------------------------------------------

20 years, 4 months

LILA - A magazine devoted to futuristic computing

by V. Sasi Kumar

The Laboratory in Informatics for the Liberal Arts (LILA) of the Mahatma Gandhi Antarrashtriya Hindi Vishwavidyalaya has brought out a magazine named LILA devoted to futuristic computing. They say that, to their knowledge, this is the first magazine in India to be manufactured completely in Free Software, and also the first to be brought out under the Free Documentation Licence. They propose to have Free Software as its major theme, with other aspects of contemporary trends in computing also included. No price is mentioned on the magazine. Hope it is 'free' as in 'free beer'! ;-) The university has a website: hindivishwa.org email: hindiuniv(a)nda.vsnl.net.in V. Sasi Kumar

20 years, 4 months

Re:{V Sasikumar] Another world is possible

by PostgreSQL Server

You have wrote, > When we are dealing with moral and ethical issues that led to the > formation of the Free Software Movement we cannot confine ourselves > just to the terms set forth in the GPL. The GPL is only a licencing > scheme that was formulated to reflect the principles of behind the Free > Software Movement. If we imbibe the spirit of the movement, then we will > be able to see that the whole issue is about sharing with the community, > and not just giving a copy of the source code to the customer, who, for > all one knows, would often not be able to make head or tail out of it. > Just as a programmer has the freedom to make use of code written by > someone, (s)he has the responsibility to give back to the community code > that (s)he has written. I think that is the spirit. Do correct me if I > am wrong. OSS is considered with moral and ethical issues raised by GPL. OSS is really sharing its sotfware with the community who reqiure it. We realised its advantage. If our customer could not be able to make head or tail out of the source code, they defenitely will approach the nearest approachable software worker. If our project is funded by a social body, we could have share it with community for free of cost. Since it did not happen, we have to share it with community for a price. > It may be easy to say that, if you cannot make a living through selling > services, then you do something else. But we all know that in the > context of our state this is not easily practiced. But I am not sure > that not putting up your software for download would help you earn more > income. If a programmer really wanted to make use of your code, (s)he > could get it from one of your customers, as you yourself have stated. > Or, am I wrong there? OSS do not think that our market will be affected by spreading of source code. But our policy is that development of a sotware solution is achieved through manpower and infrastructure utilisation. Our members are not like Sunday Congress members. (During the earlier stage of freedom struggle bureaucratic members of Indian National Congress meet only on Sundays, Other days they used to work for British rule and they used to blame regular congress members). As we are full time activists of GPL'ed software. we have to sell and service on solutions developed by us. If the price offered by OSS is unaffordable, they can approach our customer. Same was the advise we have given to Nest when they approached us. Now for Mayyanad Service Co-op bank Nest has given the same quotation as ours. They might have received it from some of our customer. OSS is not at all bothered of re-distributing the product by its customer under GPL. But as a society we cannot provide our product free of cost. Our policy is distribute it under GPL for a price. Here is the lists of customers of ShanghaMithra for convenience interested parties. --P&T Employees Credit Society, Ernakulam --Central Excise Employees Credit Co-operative Society, --Malayidamthuruthu Service co-operative bank, Ernakulam --P&T Employees Credit Society, Palakkad --Parakkadavu Service Co-Operative Bank, Ernakulam --Mattanchery Mahajanik Co-operative Urban Bank, Ernakulam --Government Employees Co-operative society, Kollam --Pothukal Service Co-operative Bank Ltd., Malappuram --P&T Employees Credit Society, Thrissoor --P&T Employees Credit Society, Aalapuzha --Pattitthara Service Co-operative Bank Ltd., Malappuram > Cost effectiveness becomes secondary because of a few reasons. I think > the most important issue is empowerment. People who talk about Total > Cost of Ownership forget about the costs of dependency in the long term > and the gain to society through empowerment. While cost becomes > important for a society like ours, it can be properly considered only > when all the implications are taken into consideration, and not just the > immediate cost of implementation. I find a similarity here with the > debate about environment and development, where many people tended to > overlook the long term environmental costs of development projects and > saw only the short term benefits. It is, therefore, important to see > things in their proper perspective. I think there is no one-to-one correlation between software and non-environmental friendly projects. So there is no comparison between them. Cost-effectiveness is essentially a prime requirement for a financially backward community. But Cost-effectiveness claimed for a non-environmental friendly projects are pseudo claim. If we are taken into consideration of environmental costs it is hardly affordable. You may please list all the cost implications those are to be taken into consideration when a software is distributed under GPL but not strictly following your version of ethics of so called free software. Regards, Anil ATPS -------------------------------------------------------

20 years, 4 months

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Fsf-friends January 2003