Fsf-friends September 2008

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

26 participants
58 discussions

Microsoft entry through ACM
by CK Raju 07 Oct '08

07 Oct '08

"..Microsoft has signed a licensing agreement with ACM providing all ACM Student Members with access, at no charge, to a variety (~ 100) of software packages through its Microsoft Developer Network Academic Alliance (MSDNAA). The goal of this program is to get these tools into the hands of current students. All active ACM Student Members are eligible to participate in the ACM/MSDNAA Program..." http://www.acm.org/membership/student/msdnaa-faq CK Raju

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Test mail
by achu.kulangara＠gmail.com 30 Sep '08

30 Sep '08

Please ignore. This is a test mail - Anil

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Re: [Fsf-friends] [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated
by Praveen A 30 Sep '08

30 Sep '08

2008/9/29 Anilkumar KV <anilankv(a)gmail.com>: Anil, This would be my last mail on my thread. As Arun said on fsf-friends, lets wait for the official position of the FSF India. > 2008/9/29 Praveen A <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> >> >> Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or >> are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising >> the event? > > > Yes, Kiran Chandra had involved in organising the Hyderabad event. In > fact he was the main organiser of that event. He had involved in it as an > activists of swetcha.in, and not in his capacity as FSF-India director. The > Organisers of Kochi event are constantly in touch with Kiran and other > organisers of Hyderabad event, and it is as per their decision, Kerala and > subsequently Kochi was selected as the venue for the second meet. The > organisers in Kochi has been now assigned to organise the next meet as a > result of the discussion which Hyderabad organisers initiated. I was not aware that Kiran was not representing FSF India but just Swecha. This was the major reason for my confusion. But isn't Swetcha a project by FSF AP? (Swecha.org has FSF Andhra Pradesh written below the logo). I am curious why FSF India was not involved in organising this time when one of its board of directors was actively involved in organising both events. >> >> 'm amazed at the tone of the organizers >> of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free >> Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role >> played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming >> the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in >> Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives >> of the organisers about this event. > > As far as I know, none of the mails from Kochi organisers had any > intention to denounce or discredit activities undertaken by any other free > software organisers or activists. If you sensed like that, please let me > know, corrective action is always ensured. No where it is claimed by any of > the Kochi organisers that efforts to promote Free Software happened last > year. I was referring to the claim by the organisers that the only National Level conference on Free Software after FSF India formed was the Hyderabad event. I felt it was discrediting the efforts of so many of the events that happened in time time. I hope the organisers would acknowledge the contributions of other events and communities in helping promote Software Freedom. > > In fact it is your message that is making confusion among the free > software friends, which comes without collecting actual facts. You could > have at least get information from Kiran before you accusing the Kochi > organisers. Please confirm with him whether the proposed Kochi event have > any legacy of Hyderabad event. I am sorry for creating this confusion. I was not expecting an FSF India board member leading a Free Software conference not in his capacity as a FSF India representative. I was also mistaken that Swecha is not independent of FSF AP. Thanks for all the clarifications. It helps to keep things in perspective. >> >> >> Why would they not consult with the community? >> Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long >> time? >> Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences >> that has happened and happening all over the country? > > > The assumptions prompted you to ask these questions itself is based on wrong > facts. Hence they stands void. >> >> I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal >> organisers and who suggested the name? > > Nobody suggested any exclusions. In fact there is no exclusions indented at > all. The organisers of of the Hyderabad event are part of the decision by > which the next venue and organisers are selected. >> >> This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. >> This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux >> kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. > > You feel it as a problem because you still assume that FSF-India organised > the Hyderabad event, which is not true. > > Your interpretation with example is also wrong due to your ignorance on > organisers of Hyderabad event. It may more resembles on seeking support from > Linus, or whoever it may be, for a second stage of a project, for which he > has extended support for the first stage. > >> I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner >> that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in >> public mailing lists. > > Ok. I appreciate your spirit, however whenever such concern arises please > confirm the base facts with the concerned, otherwise it will create unwanted > confusion among the Free Software community. > > Even then to clear these confusions, let FSF-India directors or secretary > respond to this debate. OK. Lets wait and see what is the official response of FSF India. I apologise for any confusions I have created because of my misunderstandings about Kiran Chandra's role in organising Hyderabad event. I hope the suggestions are taken positively and I wish all the best for the event. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign

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Has FSF-India lost its relevance?
by Jack As 30 Sep '08

30 Sep '08

Hi, I ask the above because of what I see happening... We have an organisation capable of taking free software to the common man, bridging the digital divide, building a better knowledge society... but 1. The members of the FSF-I work group have not met nor changed in ages..(see the Who's who for reference) 2. The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against teams trying to do something to popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities... 3. Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper tigers)... More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to inactivity... @ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves) with those who can. Wishing you to do what is right in the best interest of the movement, Jack As

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Invitation to The National Public Meeting on Software Patents
by Anivar Aravind 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

*Please Circulate widely* With Usual apologies for X-posting On behalf of the organizers, Free Software Users Group- Bangalore cordially invites you to The National Public Meeting on Software Patents ==================================== ==Venue== 2nd Floor, Ecumenical Resource Centre, United Theological College, Millers Road, Benson Town. (Behind Cantonment Railway Station) Bangalore–560046 ==Time== 10:00–17:00 Saturday, October 4, 2008 Software patents in India occupy a contentious and indeterminate legal space. While recent amendments to the Patent Act have sought to bring our law in conformity with WTO-mandated standards, these amendments have shied from pronouncing conclusively on the patentability of software. The result is an equivocation in the law which is being wrestled aggressively and effectively by corporate interests, patent attorneys and the Patent Office in favour of granting software patents. Unheard, and so unrepresented in this powerful triad are the interests of millions of citizen-consumers who are either presumed too ignorant to be credited with a view on the issue, or are presumed to be irrelevant to the determination of issues which are seen as purely "business" matters (as opposed to "citizen" matters). Software is everywhere you look (and many places you never think of looking). With the explosion of low-cost computing devices (think mobile phones and iPods), software has leaked out of its traditional home—the PC—and begun infiltrating various aspects of our lives. From traffic signals to toilet commodes in some countries, refrigerators to railway tickets, vacuum cleaners and electronic voting machines, TVs, refrigerators and electronic pacemakers, inanimate objects of all sizes are humming to themselves, chattering amongst themselves in an intricate, highly complex tongue called 'software' that few of us can ever hope to understand. On the impulses of software, we stop or move on streets, fill up on petrol, and elect governments. Someone's heart beats. Someone else receives land records on a village kiosk. Someone is standing by helplessly for fourteen years (the un-evergreened term of a patent) because software failed to factor in her disability. There are big stakes involved in the control of software in an era when software is becoming increasingly central to the way we humans organize our lives and inhabit a democracy. At one level this is about preserving the right of agency and self-direction that citizens have in their own lives. At another, it is about the right not to be silenced when our long-fought democratic republic is at risk of being diminished by a few lines of software in a machine. Whether or not we are all in fact capable of deciphering software is inessential. Those of us who are ought not to be denied the freedom to interrogate, tinker and improve. Patents have the effect of adding an additional layer of 'protection' to already existing copyright protection of software, while simultaneously overriding the various affordances and safeguards built into copyright law. For instance, the right of "fair dealing" under copyright law permits users to examine and modify any software in order to make it interoperable with other software. This is an extremely potent right that reasserts our right to intervene in the shaping of our surroundings. It is also one of the rights that is most imperiled by software patents. The present "public hearing" on software patents is an invitation for dialogue on the various issue surrounding software patents. Although the Patent Office had scheduled a public consultation on its Draft Patent Manual to be held in Bangalore in August this year, that meeting was abruptly cancelled (or postponed indefinitely, or to an unannounced date—we can't be sure) without any reasons having been assigned by the Patent Office. This signals either of two unpleasant scenarios: first, the Patent Office is proceeding with its consultations in an extremely mechanical fashion, not intending inputs received in the course of these consultations to qualitatively impact their functioning in any way; or secondly, perhaps the Patent Office underestimates the amount that citizens living in the IT capital of India might have to say on the subject of software patents. It is our attempt in this public hearing to organize the kind of consultation that the Indian Patent Office ought to have conducted. We hope also hereby, to serve as a gentle but firm reminder to the Patent Office that its task is as yet undone. ==Agenda== 1000–1100 Presentation on the principles of patent law and software patents Sudhir Krishnaswamy (National Law School) Prabir Purkayastha (Delhi Science Forum) Nagarjuna G. (Free Software Foundation of India) 1100–1130 Discussion on software patents in the Indian context: Indian Patent Act, and the draft patent manual Prashant Iyengar (Alternative Law Forum) Venkatesh Hariharan (Red Hat) 1130–1150 Tea break 1150–1240 Discussion on patents and the development sector (freedom of speech, open standards, healthcare, biotech, agro-sector, etc.) Sunil Abraham (Centre for Internet and Society) Anivar Aravind (Movingrepublic, FSUG-Bangalore) Others 1240–1300 Presentation on the software patents that have been granted so far in India Pranesh Prakash (Centre for Internet and Society) 1300–1400 Lunch break 1400–1700 Open House T. Ramakrishna (National Law School) Abhas Abhinav (DeepRoot Linux) Joseph Mathew (Special It advisor, Govt of Kerala) Sreekanth S. Rameshaiah (Mahiti Infotech) Vinay Sreenivasa (IT for Change) Any others who wish to speak ==Organizers== Centre for Internet and Society; Free Software Users Group-Bangalore; Free Software Foundation of India; SPACE; IT for Change; Alternative Law Forum; Delhi Science Forum; Movingrepublic; Sarai/CSDS; OpenSpace, ; Swathanthra Malayalam Computing; Servelots - Janastu; Mahiti; DeepRoot Linux; Wiki Ocean; Turtle Linux Lab; Zyxware Technologies; INSAF; Aneka Anivar Aravind +91 9449009908 -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Has FSF-India lost its relevance?
by Deepa Paul |ദീപാ പോള്‍ 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

Vikram vincent wrote: > But you definitely owe me an apology. I did not expect such cheapness from you. After reading the the whole thread and forwarded mail from Kerala mailing lists, i feel praveen's position is justified.He made a lot of brilliant points in the forwarded . i feel the below quote from praveen shows the crux of kerala issue <quote> I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal organisers and who suggested the name? This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in public mailing lists. </quote> In this thread i agree with positions raised by Anand babu and shyam I am considering Jack as's mail as an effort to reduce the importance of FSFIndia in defending freedom of users in ongoing campaigns against introducing software patentents At the same i agree that FSF India need to be more active . It needs support and willingness from board to accept it and formulate clear guidelines for volunteers and supporters. I request all to keep calm.. flames will not help us to archive anything In Solidarity -- Deepa paul Researcher

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Fwd: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated
by Anivar Aravind 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anilkumar KV <anilankv(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:07 PM Subject: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Praveen, 2008/9/29 Praveen A <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> > > Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or > are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising > the event? Yes, Kiran Chandra had involved in organising the Hyderabad event. In fact he was the main organiser of that event. He had involved in it as an activists of swetcha.in, and not in his capacity as FSF-India director. The Organisers of Kochi event are constantly in touch with Kiran and other organisers of Hyderabad event, and it is as per their decision, Kerala and subsequently Kochi was selected as the venue for the second meet. The organisers in Kochi has been now assigned to organise the next meet as a result of the discussion which Hyderabad organisers initiated. > > 'm amazed at the tone of the organizers > of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free > Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role > played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming > the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in > Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives > of the organisers about this event. As far as I know, none of the mails from Kochi organisers had any intention to denounce or discredit activities undertaken by any other free software organisers or activists. If you sensed like that, please let me know, corrective action is always ensured. No where it is claimed by any of the Kochi organisers that efforts to promote Free Software happened last year. In fact it is your message that is making confusion among the free software friends, which comes without collecting actual facts. You could have at least get information from Kiran before you accusing the Kochi organisers. Please confirm with him whether the proposed Kochi event have any legacy of Hyderabad event. > > > Why would they not consult with the community? > Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long time? > Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences > that has happened and happening all over the country? The assumptions prompted you to ask these questions itself is based on wrong facts. Hence they stands void. > > I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal > organisers and who suggested the name? Nobody suggested any exclusions. In fact there is no exclusions indented at all. The organisers of of the Hyderabad event are part of the decision by which the next venue and organisers are selected. > > This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. > This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux > kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. You feel it as a problem because you still assume that FSF-India organised the Hyderabad event, which is not true. Your interpretation with example is also wrong due to your ignorance on organisers of Hyderabad event. It may more resembles on seeking support from Linus, or whoever it may be, for a second stage of a project, for which he has extended support for the first stage. > I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner > that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in > public mailing lists. Ok. I appreciate your spirit, however whenever such concern arises please confirm the base facts with the concerned, otherwise it will create unwanted confusion among the Free Software community. Even then to clear these confusions, let FSF-India directors or secretary respond to this debate. - Anil --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "വിവരവിചാരം" group. To post to this group, send email to vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vivaravicharam+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vivaravicharam?hl=ml -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

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Fwd: [smc-discuss] Fwd: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated
by Anivar Aravind 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

In the light of recent discussions in fsf-friends, i am forwarding the whole thread of discussions happening in Kerala mailinglists Anivar Forwarded conversation Subject: [smc-discuss] Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated ------------------------ From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/23 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Web site for the National Free Software Convention, 15, 16 November has bee inaugurated Here is the link http://nfm2008.atps.in/ JOBY JOHN jobyatps(a)gmail.com eiids(a)yahoo.com 91-9446549598 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് - എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിനു് എന്റെ ഭാഷ സംരംഭം: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc വെബ്‌സൈറ്റ് : http://smc.org.in IRC ചാനല്‍ : #smc-project @ freenode പിരിഞ്ഞു പോകാന്‍: smc-discuss-unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- ---------- From: *Anivar Aravind* <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/23 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: Some mistakes in About page It says RMS participated in Hyderabad conference. As far as i remember RMS was not part of Hyderabad Conference. RMS was not in india at that time. See news on Hyderabd Convention (From my Del.icio.us memmory :-)) http://www.thehindu.com/2007/03/05/stories/2007030516130500.htm http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/04/stories/2007030411510400.htm Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown FOSS industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/24 To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com mistake will be corrected 2008/9/24 Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/25 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com Cc: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com please see this comment Dear All, This comment is with respect to the observation that those who didnot contribute anything to Free software movement are the organisers of the conference. In fact, the term organising committee for the Kochi conference doesnot mean to say that they are the organisers of the movement. They are organisers of the event. With this hosting of the event they too become part of the movement. This is a process of enlisting the support of wider sections of the people. So Long as our itntention is to enlist the support of everybody that is interested in FREEDOM of software and knowledge, why should we blame those who come forward to host the conference, for the reason that they have not contributed so far? No body can highjack the movement to wrong tracks. The movement is so strong by virtue of the ideals over which it is founded and the credit will always remain with the FSF. The factual errors pointed out are being corrected. Thomas They got it wrong for the simple reason that these 'so called > organizers' were not even in the picture when the first conference was > conducted. Never thought people could become this shameless. > > James > -- > > HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! > ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM To: Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> I thought he was questioning FSF India :-( (and I was kind of shocked). So luckily I added my doubt at the end... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> Date: 2008/9/25 Subject: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com Free Software movement has come this far only because of the selfless efforts of communities and individual users. New groups and organizations coming up in support of this movement is always a welcome sign. The question here is an ethical one. The organizers have every right to hold a conf on FS. But tell me how are they morally justified in calling this the 2nd National Conf on FS? The 1st National Conf was conducted by FSF India, Swecha and Dept. of History University of Hyderabad. If they really wanted to conduct a sequel to the 1st conf, they could have done so in consultation with the initial organizers. The least they can do at this point is to admit their mistake and rename their conf. to something else. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ilug-tvm" group. To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ilug-tvm-unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com For details visit the website: www.ilug-tvm.org or the google group page: http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign ---------- From: *Anivar Aravind* <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:05 PM To: Praveen A <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> I understood his point. It is a valid one Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/26 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> Date: Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 8:35 AM Subject: [ATPS] Re: Fwd: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in>, atps <ATPS(a)googlegroups.com> The confusion is very clear now. The example quoted is that of a political party, the CPI(M). It should be with the blessings of that party that the Coimbatore party organisation hosted and organised the congress. But here it is not the FSF annual that we are holding in Kochi. It is a conference on Free Software. We are trying to get the participation of activits from across the country, with experts putting their views before them, so that the movement spreads across the country, which is not the activity undertaken by FSF. This was done in Hyderabad too. Hence this is second edition of that. This is not replication of institution or activities of FSF India. There is no conflict with FSF activities or ideals. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:14 AM, James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > > > > As per Arun of FSF India himself, > > > > Free software activists in AP has organised the convention at Hyderabad. > > FSF india only supported it and welcomed all the Free software activists > to > > the event. > > > > Then why free software activists in Kochi cant host and organise the next > > conference. It too will have to be supported by FSF India. > > > > The 19th Party Congress (CPM) was held in Coimbtore this year. It was > organized by the Cadres of that place, with the blessings of CPM. > > Do you think that it is possible for some over-exited cadres in Kochi > to announce a 20th Congress on their own next year? I don't want to > elaborate on this. Hope you get the point. -- Joseph Thomas thomasatps(a)gmail.com, 9447738369. ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/27 To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/26 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: Does that mean, a political party, CPI(M), organization is more important than a civil society organisation? Does that mean only a party organization needs to be respected? That is the exact problem we are talking about. When some one (who was not associated with the first edition) say it is the second edition of an event conducted by FSF India (along with other organizations), people believe it would be similar to the earlier event. But you have now stated it is not the same. If the event is not same as the first edition, how can you call it the second edition? Wow!! That was a good judgment of what the FSF has been doing all these years !!! You want us to believe that? A statement from someone who does not even know who organized the first edition in Hyderabad. But taking over the legacy of first national conference from FSF. If you believe taking over the ownership of second edition of an event organized by FSF India without discussing with them is not conflict, then I will have to agree with you. We are not contesting the fact that the event is going to promote Free Software. What we have a problem with is hijacking the legacy and name of first national conference on Free Software __WITHOUT__ discussing with the organisers of the first nationa conference. This has led people to believe there is something else is going on behind the scenes and we are asking for clarity. If it was announced as First National Conference organised by 'so and so' organisations at Kochi, it would not have been a problem. So I would suggest you to discuss with the organisers of the first national conference and ask them if they are ok with using their legacy. Or remove the "second" part from the name and have it as your first conference. -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/28 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com James Mathew asked : What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual event of FSF India? thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says : I am not undermining and under estimating the great FSF organisation by assuming that it was inactive during the period from 2000 to 2007 to the extend to hold its annual in Hyderabad in 2007. James Mathew said : "..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again how did you know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India? thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says : What is done by Hyderabad organisers has not been done earlier by FSF, mobilising activists from all over India. For knowing that one need not ask somebody at FSF India. All are watching and understanding what is FSF India. James Mathew said : Please refer to this link. http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.… The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more weight than a quick mail from Arun. The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS, avoiding all this confusion. thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says ; The website of swecha website lists FSF India as one of the organisers or even the main organiser. Yes, they may have their own assessment of the assistance obtained from FSF or the role played by it. Can you please quote any FSF India document to show that it held its first or any subsequent annual in Hyderabad during March .2007. Again, the question of ethics and rights are being raised. Why FSF India should have this sort of Identity crisis ? By such questions and mails from those in FSF India confusion is created among the supporters and activists. Better FSF India shed its over emphasis on its rights. The emphasis on its right, in effect, mean the right to contain, restrict and prevent advancement of the Free Software movement. FSF is a respectable organisation and its name and fame shall not be destroyed by such stand taken by FSF India, please. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:41 AM, James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > To: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> > What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual > event of FSF India?"..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again > how did you > know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India?Please refer to this link. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.… > > The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more > weight than a quick mail from Arun. > > The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to > contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we > could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS, > avoiding all this confusion. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 4:18 PM To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : The above words doesnot give any such idea that political party is more important than a civil society organisation. The point raised in that respect is that coimbatore conference of CPI(M) was its annual, which can only further be followed up by that party alone. But the Hyderabad conference is not the annual of FSF India, it is an event conducted by the Hyderabad activists, efforts being made to enlist the participation of activists from all over the country. Had it been the annual of FSF, what we are doing now in Kochi, ie . Naming it as 2nd conference is absolutely wrong. But to us the Hyderabad even was not the annual of FSF. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : Holding conference in series doesnot mean to repeat what is done earlier. The subsequent events will be much advanced with more participation and more results. The content discussed also will vary. Again, the point is Hyderabad event is, in praveens own term, organised by civil society. FSF is only one of the organisation representing a section of civil society. No organisation can claim to be whole and sole representative of civil society. Kochi conference also is being organised by representative of civil society, without any tall claim of representing all, but in any case representing vast majority. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : The comment made by vivaravicharam earlier is justified by the fact that FSF has not organised any such event other than may be in Trivandrum all through he period of 2000 (Year of institution of FSF India) and 2007, the year of Hyderabad conference. This is why it is commented that FSF India has not been organising conferences in different parts of India with the aim of expanding the movement. They in FSF support, serve, offer consultancy and what ever they do to those who approach them. The vast majority of Indians are still unaware of the very issue of Software Freedom. FSF India, instead of disputing the rights of others to organise a conference or do something for the expansion of the movement, shall support all such activities going on in the country, as it has done to Hyderabad community. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : We both hold the same point. Either of us is correct. To me Hyderabad event is conducted by Free Software Activits of Hyderabad (AP) with the support of FSF India. It was not initiated, called for, or organised at the initiative of FSF India. On the contrary it was initiated, called for, support of FSF India sought for and organised by Hyderabad Activists including FSF members. Can any body show any of the FSF India document (I dont mean the site and documents of Hyderabad event ) to show that FSF India organised the Hyderabad event ? vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : Is Praveen arguing that Hyderabad event was the first national conference of FSF India ? Just reconsider it. We have no claims. We only do what we felt correct. The questions, doubts, confusion etc were created by others who questions the right to hold the conference and name it the 2nd. We are not claiming the legacy of any body. We have only named our conference 2nd to that of Hyderabad conference only, because that was the first conference that was organised by activists of any city with earnest effort to organise participation from all over the country, irrespective of the success/failure aspect. Efforts were made. They were successful to a great extend despite the limitations of being the first one. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : So far, all are arguing for FSF India and contesting the right of Kochi organisers to name it as 2nd conference. No body talks on behalf of Hyderabad University, SWECHA and the FREEDOM activits of Hyderabad who is not connected with FSF activities and even Free Software Activities. Organisers of Kochi conference are not claiming the owner ship of even this Kochi conference, leave alone Hyderabad one. Software freedom activists shall, at aleast, know the difference between ownership and right to ownership. Here, we don't claim any right to ownership. No claim of owner ship even. We are only serving the cause of FSF. But FSF India is annoyed, worried and agrieved of their right to ownership (!). We give the ownership right of Kochi conference to the civil society, which belongs to FSF as well. But we shall not surrender our right to our duty, the duty to work for FREEDOM of every body, not only that of software, but knowledge and civil in general. Let FSF claim the right of ownership (!) of this conference as well (!) by supporting it as they have done (?) in Hyderabad. Why creating confusion among the activits ? for whom ? And For what ? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/28 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: The annual was just an example. It does not mean that only annuals conducted by an organization needs to be respected by others trying to conduct sequels. It is just a strawman argument http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument That is the problem here. Everyone who participated in the first event will think it is similar to the first event. Also people will associate the event to the ideas and policies of the first event. Now when some other party claims it is the second edition, we can only hope it would have the same policy, especially when the first organizers are not involved? I did not say this. What I said was "Does that mean, a political "Civil society" and "a civil society organisation" is not the same. ഇതു് ആടും ആട്ടിന്‍കാട്ടവും ഒന്നാണെന്നു് പറയുന്നതു് പോലെയാണു്. another strawman argument I could give just a few names of the conferences that FSF has done like * http://gplv3.gnu.org.in/ International conference on GPLv3 (now don't tell me international conferences don't count :-) ) * http://fsfs.hipatia.net/ Free Software, Free Society conference (again international) I'm amazed at the enthusiasm you are showing to judge the activities of FSF India when you don't even seem to be aware of the event happened in Thiruvananthapuram 3 years back. I don't have to continue batting for FSF India, since the community knows how much it has contributed to promoting Free Software in India. This is news to me !! Thanks to enlightening me. I agree with this whole heartedly. But the way to do is not by undermining the existing community by hijacking their legacy but by joining hands with them. As far as I know the event is initiated and organised by one of the members of board of director of FSF India (he is also part of Swetcha). Wouldn't the active participation and leadership of Kiran Chandra won't count as FSF India participation? I answered it already. We did not contest the right to hold a conference, on the contrary we are welcoming it. We are only contesting the name in a positive spirit to remove any confusions arriving from the naming. This is seriously an insult to the many active members of the Free Software community who work tirelessly to promote the idea of Software Freedom from a person who is arrogant to acknowledge the contributions of the community and want to take credit for others work. There is many conferences happening all over India at every time of the year organised by different Free Software communities. FOSS.IN, Freed, GNUnify, FOSS Meet@NITC, Mukt.in to name a few. We have not gone and contested with them for credits or asked them to change names. With the due respect for your duty to promote the Freedom only, we are asking you to correct a wrong step. Rights also comes with responsibility. We are not asking you to give ownership to FSF here, but to release the ownership of the first conference you have assumed without consulting with FSF India. These are the questions I have to ask. Why was FSF India not contacted when FSF India was the organiser of the the first conference? Why are you discrediting the contributions of the Free Software community by claiming there is only one conference have happened till now? -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anilkumar KV <anilankv(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:47 AM Subject: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Praveen, James and all, The first conference was organised by a group of free software activists in Andra. They wanted FSF-India be a part of it. The FSF-India does not shown any interest in that event. However after finalising the program, the secretary of FSF-India put an email informing FSF-friends that some free software activists in Andra is conducting such an event, and FSF-India supports it. No other official initiatives were known to be taken by FSF-India for conducting Hyderabad event. If I miss anything as such please point it out. Yes here question is ethical one. How can FSF-India claimed to be organisers of an a event for which they just extended its support. The organisers of Kochi event, have started their effort after consulting with the real organisers of Hyderabad event. In fact the name of the event itself was suggested by them and not decided by Kochi organisers by themselves. Hence in here the legacy is a natural right and not just a claim. Before the reception committee formation, the organisers of Kochi event has asked support from FSF-India secretary, However the response was not in favour. Even now, it is not late for FSF-India to extend the support for this event. And I feel the Kochi organisers are even ready to accept FSF-India as organisers of the second conference The FSF-India directors and secretary are aware of these discussions going on here. Let them respond. - Anil ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് <smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com>, ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com forwarding reply to an earlier discussion. Anil, Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising the event? As pointed above, I'm asking about the role of Kiran Chandra in organising the event. Again repeat. As far as I know Kiran Chandra was actively involved in the organising of the event. I'm amazed at the tone of the organizers of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives of the organisers about this event. Why would they not consult with the community? Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long time? Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences that has happened and happening all over the country? I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal organisers and who suggested the name? This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in public mailing lists. -- -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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Fwd: [smc-discuss] Fwd: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated
by Anivar Aravind 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

In the light of discussions in FSF Friends, I am forwarding this thread , happing in Kerala mailing lists Anivar Forwarded conversation Subject: [smc-discuss] Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated ------------------------ From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/23 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Web site for the National Free Software Convention, 15, 16 November has bee inaugurated Here is the link http://nfm2008.atps.in/ -- JOBY JOHN jobyatps(a)gmail.com eiids(a)yahoo.com 91-9446549598 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് - എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിനു് എന്റെ ഭാഷ സംരംഭം: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc വെബ്‌സൈറ്റ് : http://smc.org.in IRC ചാനല്‍ : #smc-project @ freenode പിരിഞ്ഞു പോകാന്‍: smc-discuss-unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- ---------- From: *Anivar Aravind* <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/23 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: Some mistakes in About page It says RMS participated in Hyderabad conference. As far as i remember RMS was not part of Hyderabad Conference. RMS was not in india at that time. See news on Hyderabd Convention (From my Del.icio.us memmory :-)) http://www.thehindu.com/2007/03/05/stories/2007030516130500.htm http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/04/stories/2007030411510400.htm Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown FOSS industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/24 To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com mistake will be corrected 2008/9/24 Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/25 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com Cc: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com please see this comment Dear All, This comment is with respect to the observation that those who didnot contribute anything to Free software movement are the organisers of the conference. In fact, the term organising committee for the Kochi conference doesnot mean to say that they are the organisers of the movement. They are organisers of the event. With this hosting of the event they too become part of the movement. This is a process of enlisting the support of wider sections of the people. So Long as our itntention is to enlist the support of everybody that is interested in FREEDOM of software and knowledge, why should we blame those who come forward to host the conference, for the reason that they have not contributed so far? No body can highjack the movement to wrong tracks. The movement is so strong by virtue of the ideals over which it is founded and the credit will always remain with the FSF. The factual errors pointed out are being corrected. Thomas They got it wrong for the simple reason that these 'so called > organizers' were not even in the picture when the first conference was > conducted. Never thought people could become this shameless. > > James > > > -- > > > HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! > > > ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM To: Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> I thought he was questioning FSF India :-( (and I was kind of shocked). So luckily I added my doubt at the end... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> Date: 2008/9/25 Subject: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com Free Software movement has come this far only because of the selfless efforts of communities and individual users. New groups and organizations coming up in support of this movement is always a welcome sign. The question here is an ethical one. The organizers have every right to hold a conf on FS. But tell me how are they morally justified in calling this the 2nd National Conf on FS? The 1st National Conf was conducted by FSF India, Swecha and Dept. of History University of Hyderabad. If they really wanted to conduct a sequel to the 1st conf, they could have done so in consultation with the initial organizers. The least they can do at this point is to admit their mistake and rename their conf. to something else. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ilug-tvm" group. To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ilug-tvm-unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com For details visit the website: www.ilug-tvm.org or the google group page: http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign ---------- From: *Anivar Aravind* <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:05 PM To: Praveen A <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> I understood his point. It is a valid one Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/26 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> Date: Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 8:35 AM Subject: [ATPS] Re: Fwd: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in>, atps <ATPS(a)googlegroups.com> The confusion is very clear now. The example quoted is that of a political party, the CPI(M). It should be with the blessings of that party that the Coimbatore party organisation hosted and organised the congress. But here it is not the FSF annual that we are holding in Kochi. It is a conference on Free Software. We are trying to get the participation of activits from across the country, with experts putting their views before them, so that the movement spreads across the country, which is not the activity undertaken by FSF. This was done in Hyderabad too. Hence this is second edition of that. This is not replication of institution or activities of FSF India. There is no conflict with FSF activities or ideals. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:14 AM, James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > > > > As per Arun of FSF India himself, > > > > Free software activists in AP has organised the convention at Hyderabad. > > FSF india only supported it and welcomed all the Free software activists > to > > the event. > > > > Then why free software activists in Kochi cant host and organise the next > > conference. It too will have to be supported by FSF India. > > > > The 19th Party Congress (CPM) was held in Coimbtore this year. It was > organized by the Cadres of that place, with the blessings of CPM. > > Do you think that it is possible for some over-exited cadres in Kochi > to announce a 20th Congress on their own next year? I don't want to > elaborate on this. Hope you get the point. -- Joseph Thomas thomasatps(a)gmail.com, 9447738369. ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/27 To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/26 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: Does that mean, a political party, CPI(M), organization is more important than a civil society organisation? Does that mean only a party organization needs to be respected? That is the exact problem we are talking about. When some one (who was not associated with the first edition) say it is the second edition of an event conducted by FSF India (along with other organizations), people believe it would be similar to the earlier event. But you have now stated it is not the same. If the event is not same as the first edition, how can you call it the second edition? Wow!! That was a good judgment of what the FSF has been doing all these years !!! You want us to believe that? A statement from someone who does not even know who organized the first edition in Hyderabad. But taking over the legacy of first national conference from FSF. If you believe taking over the ownership of second edition of an event organized by FSF India without discussing with them is not conflict, then I will have to agree with you. We are not contesting the fact that the event is going to promote Free Software. What we have a problem with is hijacking the legacy and name of first national conference on Free Software __WITHOUT__ discussing with the organisers of the first nationa conference. This has led people to believe there is something else is going on behind the scenes and we are asking for clarity. If it was announced as First National Conference organised by 'so and so' organisations at Kochi, it would not have been a problem. So I would suggest you to discuss with the organisers of the first national conference and ask them if they are ok with using their legacy. Or remove the "second" part from the name and have it as your first conference. -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/28 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com James Mathew asked : What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual event of FSF India? thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says : I am not undermining and under estimating the great FSF organisation by assuming that it was inactive during the period from 2000 to 2007 to the extend to hold its annual in Hyderabad in 2007. James Mathew said : "..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again how did you know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India? thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says : What is done by Hyderabad organisers has not been done earlier by FSF, mobilising activists from all over India. For knowing that one need not ask somebody at FSF India. All are watching and understanding what is FSF India. James Mathew said : Please refer to this link. http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.… The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more weight than a quick mail from Arun. The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS, avoiding all this confusion. thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says ; The website of swecha website lists FSF India as one of the organisers or even the main organiser. Yes, they may have their own assessment of the assistance obtained from FSF or the role played by it. Can you please quote any FSF India document to show that it held its first or any subsequent annual in Hyderabad during March .2007. Again, the question of ethics and rights are being raised. Why FSF India should have this sort of Identity crisis ? By such questions and mails from those in FSF India confusion is created among the supporters and activists. Better FSF India shed its over emphasis on its rights. The emphasis on its right, in effect, mean the right to contain, restrict and prevent advancement of the Free Software movement. FSF is a respectable organisation and its name and fame shall not be destroyed by such stand taken by FSF India, please. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:41 AM, James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > To: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> > What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual > event of FSF India?"..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again > how did you > know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India?Please refer to this link. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.… > > The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more > weight than a quick mail from Arun. > > The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to > contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we > could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS, > avoiding all this confusion. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 4:18 PM To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : The above words doesnot give any such idea that political party is more important than a civil society organisation. The point raised in that respect is that coimbatore conference of CPI(M) was its annual, which can only further be followed up by that party alone. But the Hyderabad conference is not the annual of FSF India, it is an event conducted by the Hyderabad activists, efforts being made to enlist the participation of activists from all over the country. Had it been the annual of FSF, what we are doing now in Kochi, ie . Naming it as 2nd conference is absolutely wrong. But to us the Hyderabad even was not the annual of FSF. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : Holding conference in series doesnot mean to repeat what is done earlier. The subsequent events will be much advanced with more participation and more results. The content discussed also will vary. Again, the point is Hyderabad event is, in praveens own term, organised by civil society. FSF is only one of the organisation representing a section of civil society. No organisation can claim to be whole and sole representative of civil society. Kochi conference also is being organised by representative of civil society, without any tall claim of representing all, but in any case representing vast majority. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : The comment made by vivaravicharam earlier is justified by the fact that FSF has not organised any such event other than may be in Trivandrum all through he period of 2000 (Year of institution of FSF India) and 2007, the year of Hyderabad conference. This is why it is commented that FSF India has not been organising conferences in different parts of India with the aim of expanding the movement. They in FSF support, serve, offer consultancy and what ever they do to those who approach them. The vast majority of Indians are still unaware of the very issue of Software Freedom. FSF India, instead of disputing the rights of others to organise a conference or do something for the expansion of the movement, shall support all such activities going on in the country, as it has done to Hyderabad community. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : We both hold the same point. Either of us is correct. To me Hyderabad event is conducted by Free Software Activits of Hyderabad (AP) with the support of FSF India. It was not initiated, called for, or organised at the initiative of FSF India. On the contrary it was initiated, called for, support of FSF India sought for and organised by Hyderabad Activists including FSF members. Can any body show any of the FSF India document (I dont mean the site and documents of Hyderabad event ) to show that FSF India organised the Hyderabad event ? vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : Is Praveen arguing that Hyderabad event was the first national conference of FSF India ? Just reconsider it. We have no claims. We only do what we felt correct. The questions, doubts, confusion etc were created by others who questions the right to hold the conference and name it the 2nd. We are not claiming the legacy of any body. We have only named our conference 2nd to that of Hyderabad conference only, because that was the first conference that was organised by activists of any city with earnest effort to organise participation from all over the country, irrespective of the success/failure aspect. Efforts were made. They were successful to a great extend despite the limitations of being the first one. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : So far, all are arguing for FSF India and contesting the right of Kochi organisers to name it as 2nd conference. No body talks on behalf of Hyderabad University, SWECHA and the FREEDOM activits of Hyderabad who is not connected with FSF activities and even Free Software Activities. Organisers of Kochi conference are not claiming the owner ship of even this Kochi conference, leave alone Hyderabad one. Software freedom activists shall, at aleast, know the difference between ownership and right to ownership. Here, we don't claim any right to ownership. No claim of owner ship even. We are only serving the cause of FSF. But FSF India is annoyed, worried and agrieved of their right to ownership (!). We give the ownership right of Kochi conference to the civil society, which belongs to FSF as well. But we shall not surrender our right to our duty, the duty to work for FREEDOM of every body, not only that of software, but knowledge and civil in general. Let FSF claim the right of ownership (!) of this conference as well (!) by supporting it as they have done (?) in Hyderabad. Why creating confusion among the activits ? for whom ? And For what ? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/28 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: The annual was just an example. It does not mean that only annuals conducted by an organization needs to be respected by others trying to conduct sequels. It is just a strawman argument http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument That is the problem here. Everyone who participated in the first event will think it is similar to the first event. Also people will associate the event to the ideas and policies of the first event. Now when some other party claims it is the second edition, we can only hope it would have the same policy, especially when the first organizers are not involved? I did not say this. What I said was "Does that mean, a political "Civil society" and "a civil society organisation" is not the same. ഇതു് ആടും ആട്ടിന്‍കാട്ടവും ഒന്നാണെന്നു് പറയുന്നതു് പോലെയാണു്. another strawman argument I could give just a few names of the conferences that FSF has done like * http://gplv3.gnu.org.in/ International conference on GPLv3 (now don't tell me international conferences don't count :-) ) * http://fsfs.hipatia.net/ Free Software, Free Society conference (again international) I'm amazed at the enthusiasm you are showing to judge the activities of FSF India when you don't even seem to be aware of the event happened in Thiruvananthapuram 3 years back. I don't have to continue batting for FSF India, since the community knows how much it has contributed to promoting Free Software in India. This is news to me !! Thanks to enlightening me. I agree with this whole heartedly. But the way to do is not by undermining the existing community by hijacking their legacy but by joining hands with them. As far as I know the event is initiated and organised by one of the members of board of director of FSF India (he is also part of Swetcha). Wouldn't the active participation and leadership of Kiran Chandra won't count as FSF India participation? I answered it already. We did not contest the right to hold a conference, on the contrary we are welcoming it. We are only contesting the name in a positive spirit to remove any confusions arriving from the naming. This is seriously an insult to the many active members of the Free Software community who work tirelessly to promote the idea of Software Freedom from a person who is arrogant to acknowledge the contributions of the community and want to take credit for others work. There is many conferences happening all over India at every time of the year organised by different Free Software communities. FOSS.IN, Freed, GNUnify, FOSS Meet@NITC, Mukt.in to name a few. We have not gone and contested with them for credits or asked them to change names. With the due respect for your duty to promote the Freedom only, we are asking you to correct a wrong step. Rights also comes with responsibility. We are not asking you to give ownership to FSF here, but to release the ownership of the first conference you have assumed without consulting with FSF India. These are the questions I have to ask. Why was FSF India not contacted when FSF India was the organiser of the the first conference? Why are you discrediting the contributions of the Free Software community by claiming there is only one conference have happened till now? -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anilkumar KV <anilankv(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:47 AM Subject: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Praveen, James and all, The first conference was organised by a group of free software activists in Andra. They wanted FSF-India be a part of it. The FSF-India does not shown any interest in that event. However after finalising the program, the secretary of FSF-India put an email informing FSF-friends that some free software activists in Andra is conducting such an event, and FSF-India supports it. No other official initiatives were known to be taken by FSF-India for conducting Hyderabad event. If I miss anything as such please point it out. Yes here question is ethical one. How can FSF-India claimed to be organisers of an a event for which they just extended its support. The organisers of Kochi event, have started their effort after consulting with the real organisers of Hyderabad event. In fact the name of the event itself was suggested by them and not decided by Kochi organisers by themselves. Hence in here the legacy is a natural right and not just a claim. Before the reception committee formation, the organisers of Kochi event has asked support from FSF-India secretary, However the response was not in favour. Even now, it is not late for FSF-India to extend the support for this event. And I feel the Kochi organisers are even ready to accept FSF-India as organisers of the second conference The FSF-India directors and secretary are aware of these discussions going on here. Let them respond. - Anil ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് <smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com>, ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com forwarding reply to an earlier discussion. Anil, Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising the event? As pointed above, I'm asking about the role of Kiran Chandra in organising the event. Again repeat. As far as I know Kiran Chandra was actively involved in the organising of the event. I'm amazed at the tone of the organizers of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives of the organisers about this event. Why would they not consult with the community? Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long time? Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences that has happened and happening all over the country? I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal organisers and who suggested the name? This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in public mailing lists. -- -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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GNU/Linux primer
by shirish 28 Sep '08

28 Sep '08

Hi all, I made an attempt at making a GNU/Linux primer at http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/gnulinux-primer/ To put it simply, just something which tells newbies what it is all about without getting technical. What do you guys think? Do you think I may have missed something? Do you think something could have been put up in a better way? Or you think it plain sucks. Feedback and flames all are encouraged :) -- Regards, Shirish Agarwal This email is licensed under http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/ 065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17

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Fsf-friends September 2008