Fsf-friends February 2005

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

35 participants
67 discussions

Re: Reg ur talk at IITM -- with attachment
by Anand Babu 15 Feb '05

15 Feb '05

,----[ "Mohammed Riyaz" <p_mdriyaz(a)fastmail.fm> ] | Hi, | | I have written this document of what you spoke in IIT. I am | attaching a copy of it. This document will be put on the ilugc | websever. So if you do not like any part of it or want something | changed, let me know. | | Thank you, | Mohammed Riyaz P. | | P.S: it was a great session. :) `---- As I promised, you can download a copy of my presentation and example code at http://www.gnu-india.org/gnu/Hacking-GNU.pdf http://www.gnu-india.org/gnu/Hacking-GNU.sxi http://www.gnu-india.org/gnu/data-server.tgz OK, here is a slightly revised version of your minutes (actually documentation :) ======================================================================== Hacking GNU/HURD ================ as a part of GLV@ILUGC Speaker: Anand Babu Email: ab (at) gnu.org.in Date: 05 FEB 2005 Location: csd 320, Tenet seminar hall, IITM. For all those who couldn't make it, you did miss a lot. Cheer up though, i will try my best to bridge that gap. Brief Introduction: ------------------- The Hurd is a collection of servers that run on the Mach micro kernel to implement file systems, network protocols, file access control, and other features that are implemented by the monolithic Unix kernel or similar kernels (such as Linux). GNU Mach 1.x was derived from CMU Mach 3. There is also GNU Mach 2.0 branch based on Oskit from Utah (Oskit has Mach 4 code). initially developed from MACH 3. L4 (another micro kernel) is currently being developed and GNU Hurd hasn't booted off L4 yet. With L4 lacking the basic framework, AB recommended hacking GNU MACH over L4. Moreover getting a working GNU Hurd can be much faster with GNU MACH as most of the ground work has already been done. What GNU Hurd lacks as of now is mainly device drivers support and performance optimization. AB also emphasized on the need to get GNU Hurd working (it already works fine, i mean up to industry standard) in at least two years, in order to get in par with Linux kernel ;) SNIP: L4 tasks manages their resource themselves unlike Linux kernel. Though named micro kernel, they agent necessarily small in size. GNU Mach is big because of the Linux device drivers in it (more about this later). Drivers in User Space Vs Drivers in Kernel Space: ------------------------------------------------- AB spoke about the possibility of running device drivers in user space unlike Linus kernel where device drivers run in kernel space. Though he recommends hacking drivers in kernel space to get them ready initially. Mach tasks communicate over IPC and the advantages of user-space kernel surpasses the over-head of abstraction, Although performance doesn't suffer that much. Reason being IPC is essentially an abstraction with "mach_mesg" system call interrupt at the heart. (They are not like packets transferred between two socket applications). If the device drivers are made to run in user space, gdb could be run on the device driver to debug it. SNIP: L4 doesn't copy/queue the messages and is totally synchronous. In L4 the designers are planning to use User space drivers. Micro kernel Vs Monolithic Kernel: --------------------------------- No it wasn't a flame war ;)!! Though Linus calls Linux modular, it isn't actually modular because at run time the kernel runs as one big program( it is called modular because of the modules aspect of Linux). The disadvantage of this being, as the kernel gets bigger it is going to be more difficult to maintain it. On the other hand, the micro kernel as such is small. The modules are in user space, and are separate programs in its own space, which helps in maintaining them. Important concepts discussed about MACH: ---------------------------------------- -Threads -Tasks -Ports -Message & Message queue. Threads and tasks are exactly what we think they are. A task is like a container of threads, ports rights... The new and interesting things were ports, messages and message passing. Threads are the basic unit of execution. Task can have one or more threads. How ever Task are not like Unix processes. They do not have pid, gid ... Ports: ****** Unlike the ports we are familiar with, ports in MACH are the portals through which different tasks communicate with each other. The messages to different tasks are sent and received through ports. Ports are message queues with some properties associated to it (like message count). Port rights: ************ These rights which decide whether you can send/receive messages to/from a task(through the port) or not. Different rights: Send right - right to send to a port. Receive right - right to receive messages from a port. Send once right - this right is revoked after being used once. Port Set - Collection of receive rights. Similar to Linux file descriptors for a program that cannot be used by another program, the ports of task are protected by the kernel. The port rights are transferred through messages. Though the tasks can decide on the rights, it is the kernel which actually does the transfer of rights. Port Names pace: *************** Port Names pace is a structure maintained by the kernel for each task which contains the different rights. Each of the send once rights have a unique entry in the names pace and hence have a unique port name(discussed below). Similarly each of the receive right has a unique port name. Each port-set will have a unique port name. Send rights and receive rights to same ports have same port name. Remember a receive right cannot exist inside a port set and out-side as well. Port Name: ********** They appear as numbers like file descriptors. Port names are an index of port-rights into the port name space. Port Set: ********* Port set was released with CMU Mach 3. It is a collection of receive rights for a task. You can let the kernel listen on the entire range of receive-rights in a port-set and notify the task when ever message is ready. (Similar to "select" system call). Messages: ********* Messages consist of a mach message header, and data part. The data part in turn has data type field, count field and a data field. eg. data type - ins count - 10 data - 0..9 as guessed an array of 10 int's. :) How ports are handled in MACH? ------------------------------ In GNU Mach for a task to communicate with another task, it has to be done through ports. More precisely, it needs to have send rights to the other port. So when a task is created in MACH, the kernel creates port called task port (similarly thread port for threads) and the send rights for that port are placed in the task's task structure. Similarly two other ports are created, namely bootstrap port and exception port. The task in turn calls a routine mask_task_self(), which provides the send rights to the task port. Other basic requirements for a task such as contacting the file system server(more about servers later) are taken care of by inheriting the environment ports, which are created during GNU Hurd initialization. SNIP: Look at task.c and ipp_tt.c Line 86 of ipp_tt.c deals with the above paragraph. MiG: ---- MiG is the Mach 3.0 interface generator, as maintained by the GNU Hurd developers for the GNU project. The interface generator produces stub code from interface definition (.defs) files. The stub code makes it easy to implement and use Mach interfaces as remote procedure calls (RPC). Generally a .defs file is written which contains the functions to be implemented and is compiled with MIG. The output is two files, a server part and client part. The server part contains the function prototype. The function definition's are to be filled in by the developer to suit his requirements. The client part contains the routines to call the functions implemented by the server. So the actually message passing part is implemented by MIG. REFER TO data-server.c and data-client.c example. The Requirement- Device Drivers: -------------------------------- Shantanu Goel took Linux (1.3.35) device drivers for block,SCSI, PCI and ISA and got it working with CMU Mach. Advantage being no changes were required for the device drivers source. The wrapper took care of initialization, kernel memory allocation, I/O blocking. Currently GNU Mach has 2.0, 2.2 drivers of Linux kernel. Now the requirement is to port the Linux 2.6 kernel device drivers to GNU Mach. The emulation will produce a performance drop of few microseconds. The GNU Hurd: ------------- Servers: ******** In The GNU Hurd you have servers, eg. filesystem server, authserver TCP/IP stack, block drivers...etc. Communication (IPC) interface is defined by the corresponding MIG .defs files. Each of these servers takes care of specialized tasks and as a whole implements a POSIX system. In future GNU Hurd will also support distributed model called "collectives". Translators: ************ Translators are hooks in the filesystem which in turn link to a task. eg. You already have ftpfs, httpfs file systems, where you can mount a remote FTP or HTTP server locally and run tar or grep on them. $settans /root/.mbox /hurd/pop3fs --server=mail.gnu.org --user=.... to mount a remote POP3 connection as a local mbox file. Once the translator is set you could use the normal file system commands like cat, ls , grep etc on /tmp/ftp and it will behave like a local file system. Similarly translators could be written for gzip, http ... the list ends with your creativity. A whole list of libraries are available for this (eg. libdiskfs libnetfs ..) Two type of translators: *Active translators - these are lost with reboot, and showtrans does not work on them. *Passive translators. CASE STUDY: ~~~~~~~~~~~ The famous /dev/null in Linux is implemented as a translator in HURD. If you run ps you can see /hurd/null running as a task. This is hooked to /dev/null as a translator. If you have understood all this, then you should be wondering how a task (which acts a translator) is able to understand cat, grep, ls ...because i too did and AB explained it beautifully which takes us to the next topic. POSIX implementation on HURD: ----------------------------- Welcome to real world!!! or rather How deep is the rabbit hole??..:) Before we get into this.. there is a function that needs to be discussed. dirlookup() This function returns send rights (read important concepts in Mach) to particular task. (similar to a DNS server which returns a ip for the url). The libc calls like open, read, write .. in turn run a dirlookup() to get the rights from the required server. eg. if there is a regular file /tmp/foo a open on this would request rights from the filesystem server, but if /tmp/foo is a translator linked with foobar the the rights would be returned for foobar. Now both the filesystem server and foobar will have to implement the same set of functions, eg. io_read, io_stat etc. How is this done is you might ask. Remember the .defs file ??(read MIG above) It is the developer who fills the function definition's (go back and read MIG once more if in doubt). so in foobar for io_read, i can do a socket connect, or anything i like. so when you run cat, you call open, which does a dirlookup and returns the send right(either to a translator task or a server) and then open in turn calls io_open, io_read.. on their server. and we already know how to write a translator!!! :).. even though you missed the meet. LUCK HUH!! :) Cool tool librpci: ------------------ I dont really remember much about this(my brain was supercharged by now 4.5 hrs of HURD :)), but this tool will allow you to do a whole lot of things like stealing the task port, recreating the errors. eg if a server seems buggy to you, you could take a dump, then run librpci with this dump, librpci will simulate the previous situation with the help of the dump file. This should recreate the errors making the debugging easier. Closing notes: -------------- If you have installed GNU/Hurd, sshd will not run because /dev/urandom is not yet implemented in HURD. So you could write a binary which returns some thing random (or the same thing every time :) ) and create a symlink to it as /dev/urandom. You will have a sshd running fine. Alright, so you didn't attend the meet or you attended it and slept through out, but at least you have read this document and come this far. That gives more meaning to my effort in typing this document. Thank you. Mohammed Riyaz P. (HAPPY HACKING :) (quoting RMS)) ============================================================================== Here is some more info, I wrote. Usually you take care of this after you finish the installation and login in for the first time. SWAP and CDROM --------------- Also don't forget to add SWAP entries in your /etc/fstab after installation completes. You need to create devices before you use them. If you have a swap partition say hd0s2 (hda2) and cdrom as hd2 (hdc), then # cd /dev # ./MAKEDEV hd0s2 # ./MAKEDEV hd2 and add these two lines to /etc/fstab /dev/hd0s2 none swap sw 0 0 /dev/hd2 /cdrom iso9660 ro 0 0 # swapon -a APT ---- If your network card works, add this to your /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://ftp.gnuab.org/debian unreleased main deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main Or if you have setup to use CDROM instead, do this deb file:/cdrom/debian unstable main contrib local non-US/main non-US/contrib NETWORK -------- Setup networking like this: (Choose IP addresses appropriately) # settrans -fgap /servers/socket/2 /hurd/pfinet -i eth0 \ -a 192.168.1.54 -g 192.168.1.1 -m 255.255.255.0 # echo "nameserver 202.54.15.1" >> /etc/resolv.conf # ping www.gnu.org SSH ---- ssh installation will fail, because of missing /dev/urandom. Before you proceed with ssh installation, temporarily create a symbolic link of some binary file in place of urandom. This is just a dirty hack.. # ln -s /bin/bash /dev/urandom CONSOLE -------- I am comfortable with "screen" package, except I re-map C-a prefix with Happy Hacking, -- Anand Babu Free as in Freedom <www.gnu.org>

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[Fsf-friends] Re: GNU/HURD Installation: native-install goes into endless loop
by Anand Babu 15 Feb '05

15 Feb '05

,----[ "Toufeeq Hussain" <Toufeeq_Hussain(a)infosys.com> ] | I'm unable to create/modify files. remember that I'm operating | under single user mode (-s, during boot-time), maybe the read-only | is set because of single-user mode. `---- This explains. File system is mounted read only. This could have happened because of improper shutdown or incomplete installation. Try this, Assuming your root partition is hd0s1 (hda1) # fsck.ext2 -y /dev/hd0S1 # fsysopts / --writable Then you proceed with your installation. # ./native_install Otherwise, I recommend a re-install. SWAP and CDROM --------------- Also don't forget to add SWAP entries in your /etc/fstab after installation completes. You need to create devices before you use them. If you have a swap partition say hd0s2 (hda2) and cdrom as hd2 (hdc), then # cd /dev # ./MAKEDEV hd0s2 # ./MAKEDEV hd2 and add these two lines to /etc/fstab /dev/hd0s2 none swap sw 0 0 /dev/hd2 /cdrom iso9660 ro 0 0 # swapon -a APT ---- If your network card works, add this to your /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://ftp.gnuab.org/debian unreleased main deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main NETWORK -------- Setup networking like this: (Choose IP addresses appropriately) # settrans -fgap /servers/socket/2 /hurd/pfinet -i eth0 \ -a 192.168.1.54 -g 192.168.1.1 -m 255.255.255.0 # echo "nameserver 202.54.15.1" >> /etc/resolv.conf # ping www.gnu.org SSH ---- ssh installation will fail, because of missing /dev/urandom. Before you proceed with ssh installation, temporarily create a symbolic link of some binary file in place of urandom. This is just a dirty hack.. # ln -s /bin/bash /dev/urandom CONSOLE -------- I am comfortable with "screen" package, except I re-map C-a prefix with ` key. Add this to your /etc/screenrc # turn off annoying visual bell off and enable audible beep vbell off # replace C-a with C-\ escape `^M If you want a fancy Hurd console try this # console -d vga -d pc_mouse --repeat=mouse -d pc_kbd --repeat=kbd \ -d generic_speaker -c /dev/cons /dev/vcs QUESTIONS ---------- Here is a nice FAQ for GNU/Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/faq.en.html -- Anand Babu Free as in Freedom <www.gnu.org>

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[Fsf-friends] Fwd: [mramadoss@techserve.co.in: Can u guide to a GNU laptop]
by Nagarjuna G. 15 Feb '05

15 Feb '05

Can you help him? Nagarjuna ----- Forwarded message from sriramadoss <mramadoss(a)techserve.co.in> ----- > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:14:36 +0530 > From: sriramadoss <mramadoss(a)techserve.co.in> > Subject: Can u guide to a GNU laptop > To: nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org > User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) > > Dear Nagarjunji, > > I came to know about in the recently concluded swatantra symposium at VIT. > > Don't know whether its right to put this question to you. If it is not > so kindly apologise. > > I wish to go for a notebook PC that has absolutely free softwares in it. > > can u guide me... > > Looking forward to your reply. > > Regards, > > Sri Ramadoss M, > Old No: 30/5 New No: 63/5 Murthy Street Extn., > West mambalam, > Chennai - 600 033 > Mobile: 98416 87639 > > ----- End forwarded message -----

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Backlash for Micro$oft
by CK Raju 15 Feb '05

15 Feb '05

Dear Ajay, It has to be done and it needs to be fast. I can tell you the Kerala story. Here a free-lance journalist "Nuaiman" wrote a brilliant expose on the issue (about The Project Shiksha of Micro$oft) in a popular weekly magazine. That caught fire, and the teaching community revolted, who even went to the extent of boycotting exams. Nuaiman wrote about the "earn while you teach" theme of Intel/Microsoft and the "project shiksha". CK Raju --- "Ajay Pal Singh Atwal" <ajaypal(a)bbsbec.org> wrote: Can something similar be done in Punjab. I know there are plenty of ppl from Punjab especially from teaching community in this list. Punjab Technical University has tailored its curriculum as per M$ software. _____________________________________________________________ LinuxTimes.Net --> Open Source to everyone.

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Edward Cherlin's interesting point of view...
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 14 Feb '05

14 Feb '05

Permit me to share Edward Cherlin's interesting point of view, which came up on the BytesForAll list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bytesforall_readers in another context. He makes some interesting points. (I think a better word for 'commercial' software would be 'proprietorial' software.) --FN Bill Gates has a vested interest in denying the reality of progress in anything that Microsoft didn't invent (BASIC and other programming language products) or buy (much of their business) or copy (Windows) or have handed to them (PC DOS)... Yup, we have it. It's called Free Software. Apache is the dominant Web server. You can even get it for Windows, now. Firefox recently started cutting into Microsoft's market share in browsers. You can get OpenOffice, and there are two projects to clone Outlook and the Microsoft messaging server. Countries like Rwanda are creating complete sets of software in their own languages. The full effects of these changes have yet to be felt.... E-commerce is another good Copernican idea. Overstock.com is now the biggest employer in Afghanistan, selling art and craft items on the Web and paying the creators 70% of the final selling price. Compare that with the pennies an hour that children are getting in rug factories in Asia.... The big deal about Free Software is that the manufacturing cost is essentially zero. I am running a Linux system with Free applications that would cost several thousand dollars in commercial near-equivalents. All it cost me was the download time. From my current setup: Free Commercial OpenOffice Microsoft Office MySQL Microsoft Access Quanta Plus Microsoft FrontPage Korganizer + Kmail Microsoft Outlook Gnucash Microsoft Money Kivio Microsoft Visio GIMP Adobe Photoshop Sketch Abode Illustrator Maxima Wolfram Mathematica Kig Interactive Geometry Geometer's Sketchpad FontForge ParaType Fontlab C, C++, Perl, Python, LISP/Scheme, Tcl/Tk When I feel the need for a new program, I don't have to ask myself whether I can afford it. I just do a little searching on the Net to find and compare the alternatives, and install my choice. Or maybe I install several to try out, and then decide which to keep. -- Edward Cherlin, Simputer Evangelist Encore Technologies (S) Pte. Ltd. The Village Information Society http://cherlin.blogspot.com Forwarded via: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Frederick Noronha (FN) Nr Convent Saligao 403511 GoaIndia Freelance Journalist P: 832-2409490 M: 9822122436 http://fn.swiki.net http://fn-floss.notlong.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where the needs of the world and your talents cross, there lies your vocation. --Aristotle

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[Fsf-friends] [digilib_india] National Workshop On E-Learning Technologies (fwd)
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 14 Feb '05

14 Feb '05

Not related directly to FLOSS< but might be of interest. FN ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Dear Professionals, The Department of Library and Information Science,Andhra University,Visakhapatnam(A.P) is organising a four day national workshop on E-Learning Technology applications in LIS Profession from March 2 - 5, 2005. Following topics would be covered in the workshop: - Introduction to E-Learning - Introduction to E-Learning Methods and technologies and their application in LIS profession - Multimedia Applications- Preparation of effective power point presentations using text,audio,images,video content and Animation , Use of OCR technologies, - Overview of HyperText MarkUp Language - Design of Web sites for Libraries and Information Centers The Workshop is mainly organised for Librarians and LIS teachers with basic knowledge of IT. Workshop is intended for a limited number of participants. Registration fee is Rs.500/-per participant. Payment can be made by Demand Draft in favour of �National Workshop on E-learning Technology Applications In LIS Profession", Dept. of Library & Information Science,Andhra University,payable at Visakhapatnam. Cash payment would be accepted only from local participants. For further information please contact: Prof.C.Sasikala, csasikala(a)satyam.net.in Professor, Dept of Library and Inf. Sc., Andhra University, Visakhapatnam Dr.D.CHANDRAN, Associate Professor Dept of Library & Information Sc. Sri Venkateswara University TIRUPATI 517502,INDIA, Email ID : chandrand2001(a)yahoo.co.in http://www.nafizdu.netfirms.com/dr_d_chandran.html PHONE: (res) +91-(0)877-55-72559 OFF: +91`-(0)877-224 9666/314 MOBILE:(0) 94401-90250 FAX : +91-(0)877-225 4830 or 224 9548 or224 9488 or 222 9101 Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.

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Review of Ubuntu
by Praveen A 13 Feb '05

13 Feb '05

Author : Carthikhttp://www.swaroopch.info/archives/2005/02/09/it-finally-hit-me-why-mepis-debian-rocks/#comments Source : I forgot to say what I liked in Ubuntu, in particular : First off, the community is great, and very helpful, and the tolerance towards newbies is high. Second, most of the apps and preferences are set in such a way as to make life easier, and the OS more intuitive and immediately useful. The Ubuntu devs seem to be putting some time into adapting the programs for usability. For example, i have never seen better fonts in a Linux system, and the defaults make sense. Third, I don't want to switch on a later day, when Warren Woodford decides or is forced to call it quits. I am suspicious of one-person projects. Fourth, Ubuntu is totally free and will remain so, but is still backed by a company, Canonical, with lots of money being invested into improving it. Debian and Gnome developers are on a payroll, and that means a lot to me, since I know it is their job to improve Ubuntu - it is not a past time activity for them. Fifth, Ubuntu just worked on my laptop and desktop. I can't say the same for MEPIS which could not boot me into a graphical UI, or setup my wireless card "out of the box". That is important to me, since I can learn more, only if I have everything running to begin with, especially internet access. Now I know enough to install the driver, load the modules etc manually, but to begin with, it's nice to get some hand-holding (besides, isn;t that the way everything should work - with minimal intervention?) Sixth, To me, the philosophy behind the OS is important. Ubuntu is a novel venture in which a person and an organization are investing in the future of free OpenSource software. I want to do what I can to see that this is a success story - so that other organizations will invest in Open source development. I wish Canonical all success, since they do not have any Mandrake-like clubs, or MEPIS-like 'Pro' versions, and since they provide the same OS freely as they do when they get involved with professional support. It is good to know I have the best my distro has on offer, and that I am not discriminated against - even though I pay nothing. Canonical is serious enough about spreading the word. They distribute (read mail out) CD packets to whoever wants them, for free, across the world. The sheer cost of shipping cds worldwide, any number of them, boggles my mind. I received some 10 cd packs, and am lined up to receive another 100 cd packs - each with professionally made and packaged cds. All this and just a general feeling of "this one's a good one" made me choose Ubuntu as my only OS. -- "There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels." A proud GNU user http://www.gnu.org http://www.edathanattukara.com My Weblog at http://www.livejournal.com/users/pravi Visit me at http://www.pravi.tk Rediscover the web ! Get firefox at http://www.getfirefox.com Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

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[Fsf-friends] [Richard Stallman] Re: [FSF India Board] GNUunify is not GNU
by Anand Babu 13 Feb '05

13 Feb '05

Dear Rajeev, Please register your group under http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-user-groups.html Thanks -- Anand Babu Free as in Freedom <www.gnu.org> -- Anand Babu Free as in Freedom <www.gnu.org>

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[Fsf-friends] "Microsoft seeking to bypass decisions of European Court" (fwd)
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 13 Feb '05

13 Feb '05

---------- Forwarded message ---------- FSFE: "Microsoft seeking to bypass decisions of European Court" "My local shop has a rule that they don't serve women. This is not discriminatory because the same rule applies to both males and females equally." Software giant Microsoft seems to behave similar to the shop owner after a decision of European Court. Spring last year, EU Commissioner Mario Monti imposed a penalty of nearly 500 million Euro on Microsoft, as well as some additional conditions. One of those conditions are the publication of so called software interfaces. Software interfaces determine how computers communicate with each other to exchange information. This information is important for several Free Software projects. One of these is SAMBA, which connects the UNIX and GNU/Linux world with Microsoft's operating system and works against the monopoly that Microsoft has established on the operating system market. Without access to the software interface information, SAMBA will have a hard time keeping up. Microsoft appealed against this decision in front of European Court of Justice and asked to suspend the decision until the proceeding has come to a final decision in possibly four years. European Court refused this suspension December last year. Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) supported the European Commission throughout this procedure. Officially Microsoft says it wants to cooperate with the Commission and to comply with the conditions. Microsoft has published an agreement which allows Free Software projects like SAMBA to use the software interface information, but bans it from publishing the software as Free Software. "That is not even complying with the wording of European Court's decision - not to mention its spirit!" Stefano Maffulli, Italian Chancellor of FSFE says. Microsoft requests a "Per User Royalty" from Free Software projects: "Obviously, while paying royalties is not impossible in principle as una-tantum, with Free Software nobody knows exactly how many copies use a certain program are circulating, as Free Software is allowed to be copied as often as necessary, freely.", Maffulli says. FSFE Lawyer Carlo Piana adds: "It seems that Microsoft has misunderstood the actual meaning of the decision. I cannot enter into details, but it has offered a license as though it would have to license its software, while all which is demanded is to release certain information as to the 'language spoken' by its applications." This is the same kind of information that any software company is entitled to acquire and use by reverse engineering, to produce an independent product or buy buying a license to standards like POSIX. Piana adds: "Moreover, the license offered only applies to the European Economic Area (but it is governed by the laws -- and put under the jurisdiction -- of the USA.) Not to say about the agreement requested for evaluating the licensed software, which is incredibly burdensome and only allows inspection for total 48 hours. According to Microsoft testimony, the inspected documentation would pile up 'tens of thousand pages', you can do the math! It took more than four hours to me just to study the contracts... And those who have inspected the information loose the possibility to work on the development of similar products for one year. We cannot even start a discussion on this basis." "We have communicated our concerns to the Commission and we are full of confidence that Brussels will bear them in mind: for European consumers it is a must that SAMBA and any other Free Software developer is allowed to publish Free Software on the basis of the given interface information. Secondly nothing else than a single payment is acceptable to us. And thirdly we have to take care that Microsoft does not try to protect its monopoly with software patents on these interface informations. It is really difficult to follow all the dodges they do", Maffulli says, "but FSFE will be awake to avoid Microsoft making paper tigers out of decisions of the European Court!" About the Free Software Foundation Europe: The Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) is a charitable non-governmental organisation dedicated to all aspects of Free Software in Europe. Access to software determines who may participate in a digital society. Therefore the Freedoms to use, copy, modify and redistribute software - as described in the Free Software definition- allow equal participation in the information age. Creating awareness for these issues, securing Free Software politically and legally, and giving people Freedom by supporting development of Free Software are central issues of the FSFE. The FSFE was founded in 2001 as the European sister organisation of the Free Software Foundation in the United States. Further information: http://www.fsfeurope.org When you would like to receive our press releases regularly please subscribe to our mailinglist at http://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/press-release. Thank you very much for your interest. -- Joachim Jakobs <jj(a)office.fsfeurope.org> Press Speaker - FSF Europe (http://fsfeurope.org) Heinrich-Heine-Str. 3, D-67134 Birkenheide (Tel: +49-179-6919565) _______________________________________________ Press-release mailing list Press-release(a)fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/press-release

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Re: Fsf-friends Digest, Vol 22, Issue 13
by Amachu 12 Feb '05

12 Feb '05

hi, gr8 to read about phoenix.. On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:32:32 -0800 (PST), fsf-friends-request(a)mm.gnu.org.in <fsf-friends-request(a)mm.gnu.org.in> wrote: > Send Fsf-friends mailing list submissions to > fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fsf-friends-request(a)mm.gnu.org.in > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fsf-friends-owner(a)mm.gnu.org.in > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Fsf-friends digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [Fsf-friends] Fwd:[mramadoss@techserve.co.in: Can u guide > to a GNU laptop] (Nagarjuna G.) > 2. Re: Fwd: [mramadoss(a)techserve.co.in: Can u guide to a GNU > laptop] (Mahesh T. Pai) > 3. GNU sticker (was) Fwd: [mramadoss(a)techserve.co.in: Can u > guide to a GNU laptop] (Joe Steeve) > 4. Re: GNU sticker (Anand Babu) > 5. Re: [Fsf-friends] Fwd:[mramadoss@techserve.co.in: Can u guide > to a GNU laptop] (Nagarjuna G.) > 6. Re: Fwd: [mramadoss(a)techserve.co.in: Can u guide to a GNU > laptop] (Joe Steeve) > 7. Re: An interesting site (Nagarjuna G.) > 8. Re: Fwd: [mramadoss(a)techserve.co.in: Can u guide to a GNU > laptop] (Raj Mathur) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:08:19 +0530 > From: "Nagarjuna G." <nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org> > Subject: Re: [Fsf-friends] Fwd:[mramadoss@techserve.co.in: Can u guide > to a GNU laptop] > To: fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in > Cc: Anand Babu <ab(a)gnu.org.in> > Message-ID: <200502112008.19509.nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Thursday 10 Feb 2005 11:10 pm, Anand Babu wrote: > > IBM ThinkPads are the most Free Software compatible ones. > > I recommend IBM T21to T23 on the lower end and IBM T40 to T43 > > on the higher end. IBM X40 is sleek, light weight, 8 hrs battery > but > > costly. > > > > FSF-US gives IBM Thinkpads for FSF Sys Admins. > > do the internal modems in them also work? > > Nagarjuna > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 00:39:21 +0530 > From: "Mahesh T. Pai" <paivakil(a)sancharnet.in> > Subject: Re: [Fsf-friends] Fwd: [mramadoss(a)techserve.co.in: Can u > guide to a GNU laptop] > To: fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in > Message-ID: <20050211190920.GB4424(a)nandini.home> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Nagarjuna G. said on Fri, Feb 11, 2005 at 08:08:19PM +0530,: > > > do the internal modems in them also work? > > Ought to. There is the mwave module. Though it is a binary module, it > is undet the GPL, and is in the official kernel tree. > > Errr ... afaik, RMS is using an IBM thinkpad. > > -- > Mahesh T. Pai <<>> http://paivakil.port5.com > ~/\$ mv -vfi linux gnu/linux > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 01:59:25 +0530 > From: Joe Steeve <joe_steeve(a)gmx.net> > Subject: [Fsf-friends] GNU sticker (was) Fwd: > [mramadoss(a)techserve.co.in: Can u guide to a GNU laptop] > To: Principal Support List of FSF-India <fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in> > Message-ID: <87braqvo0q.fsf_-_(a)deck8.enterprise> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Anand Babu <ab(a)gnu.org.in> writes: > > ... > > AB: Where do I get the `GNU` sticker you had on your laptop., I > thought the stickers RMS promised where like the ones you had., > but they seem to be different. > > -- > .O. A proud GNU user > ..O http://www.joesteeve.tk/ > OOO http://joe.bsdnerds.org/ >

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Fsf-friends February 2005