Fsf-friends March 2005

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

51 participants
106 discussions

[Fwd: [Ilugc] "Letter from Peruvian Congressman"]
by Ramanraj K 05 Mar '05

05 Mar '05

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Ilugc] "Letter from Peruvian Congressman" Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:33:41 +0530 From: Sridhar Ratna <sridharinfinity(a)gmail.com> Reply-To: Sridhar Ratna <sridharinfinity(a)gmail.com> To: Chennai Linux User's Group <ilugc(a)ae.iitm.ac.in> This is a reply made to a slashdot post (http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/04/1359234 ) Letter from Peruvian Congressman - by suso (Score: 4, Insightful) Thread This letter (http://www.opensource.org/docs/peru_and_ms.php ) by Dr. Edgar David Villenueva Nunez that the linked article links to is absolutely fantastic. I've never read such a good argument for open source outside of its founders. Nor have I read such a great and well thought out letter by a modern day politician. It makes me want to move to Peru. I think that you all should take a moment to read through that so that you can remind yourself that open source is the "more correct" form of software development. -- Sridhar Ratna - http://srid.bsdnerds.org _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, email ilugc-request(a)ae.iitm.ac.in with "unsubscribe " in the subject or body of the message. http://www.ae.iitm.ac.in/mailman/listinfo/ilugc

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Something About SLYNUX
by Sarath Lakshman 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

Dear Sir, Very Thanks for your mail.. I'm glad that i could experience gnoware. After my SSLC exams, i could work more on FS experiments on GNU/Linux. Postal Address: 'Anaswara', Perumunderi, New Mahe - 673311 Phone No: 0490 2336600 With Regards, ----------------------------- S.L http://www.slynux.co.nr ----------------------------- --- "Nagarjuna G." <nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org> wrote: > > Ankit and Sarath, > > we are very proud to have you on the list. I hope > it will inspire > many other students to experience the freedom of > free software. > > Meanwhile, do send me your postal address off list. > I will send you > the latest gnoware for testing, this is made > specially for schools. > > Nagarjuna > > > _______________________________________________ > Fsf-friends mailing list > Fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in > http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends > __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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[Fsf-friends] RECAP of MONEY and FLOSS - Discussions - It should continue to get more answers fro more members
by Venkat Kumaraswamy 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

Here is the recap which were posted in the group. ______________________________________________________________ There's few good articles on the http://www.gnu.org site. I would also suggest these books: 1) The Success of Open Source by Steven Weber 2) Free for All: How LINUX and the Free Software Movement Undercut the High-Tech Titans by Peter Wayner 3) Free Culture: How Big Media Uses Technology and the Law to Lock Down Culture and Control Creativity -- by Lawrence Lessig (not techinicall related with Free software, but same philiosophy). -- Sharif Islam http://www.sharifislam.com - sharif.islam(a)gmail.com Research Programmer University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign Library Systems Office 217-244-4688 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks You Sandip. Let me give you another example. Imagine the state of the IT Industry in India. Most (90%) of the companies are services based companies. They don't develop products. In the case of a FLOSS developer, he has an added advantage in that *he* is the product developer and *he* is also the service provider. Ofcourse, if you include the amount of customizations that can be implementaed for your clients, the oppurtunities are limitless. And your clients will also not mind your product being FLOSS Licensed as long as it serves their purpose and they will be happy to have a community constantly developing *their* software (for free) , so that they don't have to care about maintainence. Ofcourse they might want it customised for a new release, this is where repeat business comes in for you. :) Regards, Toufeeq Hussain - toufeeqh(a)gmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Since the software is free(as in freedom), anyone could modify the installation system and make it user friendly. Vijay - vijaykumar(a)bravegnu.org ________________________________________________________________ "So this said person gives away his software for free, and sells the service of installing it for his clients. No body knows the software as well as he does, and not all clients want to mess around with hacking a software to customize to their needs. So this guy is bound to get work based on his services. IF he has a get-rich-quick idea in mind, I am sorry, but FOSS isn't his area. Let him stick to closed source - in which case there is a 90+% chance that he will fail (in keeping with market norm). " but then that would tempt Person X to keep the installation bit an uneasy procedure since that is his/her only source of bread. "Ankit Malik" <ankitmalik(a)gmail.com> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Sandip Bhattacharya" <sandip(a)lug-delhi.org> This has been answered too many times. I will try to answer it the way I have been convinced. The question you ask is generally asked by people who think making products is the only way to make money. Such people are normally lured by the prospect of creating product once and selling it multiple times and getting rich quick. These same people somehow miss out all the people working around him - the plumber, the carpenter, the accountant, the banker, the electrician ... all the people who earn by selling their *services*. In fact, the service sector of the economy far surpasses the product oriented sector. Just like only the FMCG (Fast moving consumer goods) area of our product economy will always make money, similarly niche fields in software products (like accounting software which needs to be updated every year or anti-virus software) will always make money. And like the rest of the real world products like refrigerators, fridges whose markets become saturated over time, long-term software products (like Commercial operating systems) will also get saturated. Sooner or later long-term software producers have to turn to a service model to ensure constant revenue stream. In short, software products anyway dont work well in the long term. Services always will (even though they would not give you any sharp spikes in revenue like products). FOSS offers the best option for software developers worldwide to develop a common public body of software and then sell it in their local market as a service. Over time this common software treasure will only get richer as no proprietary company can afford to maintain such a huge amount of software at such a scale of human effort. Coming back to your question... So this said person gives away his software for free, and sells the service of installing it for his clients. No body knows the software as well as he does, and not all clients want to mess around with hacking a software to customize to their needs. So this guy is bound to get work based on his services. IF he has a get-rich-quick idea in mind, I am sorry, but FOSS isn't his area. Let him stick to closed source - in which case there is a 90+% chance that he will fail (in keeping with market norm). - Sandip Sandip Bhattacharya * Puroga Technologies * sandip(a)puroga.com Work: http://www.puroga.com * Home/Blog: http://www.sandipb.net/blog --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hello, i guess you might have received a lot of answers. instead of repeating all that here. can you just brief all the answers you got and your counter-args, since it will reduce the no of threads. regards, amal - "amal manuel" <amalmanuel(a)yahoo.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi I know this is an old question! In fact I have asked this at loads of places but with no satisfactory answer. I hope you guys answer it >> "Mr. X is a software developer. He develops a Software Y and releases it as free [as in freedom and beer] So how does he earn money" -- Ankit Malik - "Ankit Malik" <ankitmalik(a)gmail.com> http://scribbler.tk --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Money ??
by amal manuel 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

hello, i guess you might have received a lot of answers. instead of repeating all that here. can you just brief all the answers you got and your counter-args, since it will reduce the no of threads. regards, amal --- Ankit Malik <ankitmalik(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi > > I know this is an old question! In fact I have asked > this at loads of > places but with no satisfactory answer. > > I hope you guys answer it >> > > "Mr. X is a software developer. He develops a > Software Y and releases > it as free [as in freedom and beer] So how does he > earn money" > -- ~amal "its always darkest, before it goes pitch black" __________________________________ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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Money ??
by Ankit Malik 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

Hi I know this is an old question! In fact I have asked this at loads of places but with no satisfactory answer. I hope you guys answer it >> "Mr. X is a software developer. He develops a Software Y and releases it as free [as in freedom and beer] So how does he earn money" -- _______________________ Ankit Malik http://scribbler.tk

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Re: [Ilugc] Fwd: FSF-India response to the Patents (Amendments)Ordinance, 2004
by Ramanraj K 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

Shiv, thanks for your comments. Before the amendment, Section 3(k) of the Patents Act, 1970, falling under "inventions not patentable", stood as follows: "3(k) a mathematical or business method or a computer program per se or algorithms;" It should be left alone in peace. >>Please confine this thread to the amendments proposed to >>Section 3(k) *only*, which is of immediate interest to the FSF India. >> >> "3. In section 3 of the principal Act, (a) in clause (d), for the >> words new use , the words mere new use shall be substituted; (b) >> for clause (k), the following clauses shall be substituted, >> namely: >> >> (k) a computer programme per se other than its technical >> application to industry or a combination with hardware; >> >> (ka) a mathematical method or a business method or algorithms;" >> >> >> >Comments: > >1) Software already has copyright protection, and in addition, >closed-source software also has trade-secret protection. It definitely >doesn't need patent protection in addition. > Correct. TRIPS in fact obliges the member states, India, US and all the others there, to the do the following, which are very clear and self-explanatory: <quote> Article 9 Relation to the Berne Convention 1. Members shall comply with Articles 1 through 21 of the Berne Convention (1971) and the Appendix thereto. However, Members shall not have rights or obligations under this Agreement in respect of the rights conferred under Article 6b is of that Convention or of the rights derived therefrom. 2. Copyright protection shall extend to expressions and not to ideas, procedures, methods of operation or mathematical concepts as such. Article 10 Computer Programs and Compilations of Data 1. Computer programs, whether in source or object code, shall be protected as literary works under the Berne Convention (1971). 2. Compilations of data or other material, whether in machine readable or other form, which by reason of the selection or arrangement of their contents constitute intellectual creations shall be protected as such. Such protection, which shall not extend to the data or material itself, shall be without prejudice to any copyright subsisting in the data or material itself. </quote> The amendment seriously goes against the grain of the above Articles. The mischief, as though the amedment is required to cover "embedded software", is apparently done by misinterpreting Article 27 of TRIPS, dealing with "Patentable Subject Matter" which begins as follows: "1. ... patents shall be available for any inventions, whether products or processes, in all fields of technology, provided that they are new, involve an inventive step and are capable of industrial application..." It is meaningless to justify patents for "embedded software" on the basis of Article 27, and this should explain the source for the mumbo-jumbo below : > >2) This "application to industry" phrase is mumbo-jumbo. Every single >piece of software is applicable to industry - effectively, the phrase >provides a general catch-all exemption. > >3) The "combination with hardware" phrase is even more mumbo-jumbo. All >software functions *only* in combination with hardware. How else are you >going to use the program, hand-simulate it with paper-and-pencil in a >computer science class? Another general catch-all exemption. > It would be clear that TRIPS plainly prescribes copyrights for computer programs, and the above mumbo-jumbo is merely a fanciful invention ;)

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Patents can Kill People
by Ramanraj K 04 Mar '05

04 Mar '05

A snip from "The Profits That Kill" available online at http://www.adduonline.com/articles/bunting.htm : <quote> Put baldly, patents are killing people. But that's not all. Intellectual property protection has become a tool to make permanent the growing inequality of the global economy... </quote> Kuldip Nayar has written an article titled "UPA, come out from the cold: It must get back to first principles if it is to be faithful to its mandate" which is available online at http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=65640 Please post any links, articles, views or opinions that could help in voicing our concern against the proposed drastic amendments to the Patents Act. Thanks, Ramanraj.

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REcipe for a Successful [GNU]Linux User Group
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 03 Mar '05

03 Mar '05

The most recent version of this essay can be found at http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Linux_PR/newlug.html. Recipe for a Successful Linux User Group by Rick Moen See the full essay online ****** Really good. -FN 1. You need a Web page. 2. Your Web page needs a reasonable URL. 3. You need a regular meeting location. 4. You need a regular meeting time. 5. You need to avoid meeting-time conflicts. 6. You need to make sure that meetings happen as advertised, without fail. 7. You need a core of several Linux enthusiasts. 8. Your core volunteers need out-of-band methods of communication. 9. You need to get on the main lists of LUGs, and keep your entries accurate. * http://www.ssc.com/glue/ * http://lugww.counter.li.org/ * http://nlug.org/webring/ * http://www.redhat.com/apps/community/LUG/ * http://www.linux.org/groups/ * http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/Linux/User_Groups/ * http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/ Operating_Systems/Unix/Linux/User_Groups/ 10. You must have login access to maintain your Web pages, as needed. 11. Design your Web page to be forgiving of deferred maintenance. 12. Always include the day of the week, when you cite event dates. Always check that day of the week, first, using gcal [2] (or cal). gcal is your friend. 13. Place time-sensitive and key information prominently near the top of your main Web page. 14. Include maps and directions to your events. 15. Emphasise on your main page that your meeting will be free of charge and open to the public (if it is). 16. You'll want to include an RSVP "mailto" hyperlink, on some events. 17. Use referral pages. 18. Make sure every page has a revision date and maintainer link. 19. Check all links, at intervals. 20. You may want to consider establishing a LUG mailing list. 21. You don't need to be in the Internet Service Provider business. 22. Don't go into any other business, either. 23. Walk the walk. LUG checklist. The following checklist may be useful for your group, once established. 1. Web page: a. Meetings: [ ] Current meeting info? Is it prominent? [ ] Day of the week? Beginning time? Ending time? [ ] Double-checked day/date matches against a calendar? (E.g., is the "Friday, March 28" you listed an error, because the 28th is a Thursday?) [ ] Location? [ ] Map? [ ] Directions (car, public transit)? Parking tips? [ ] Information on the next several meetings? [ ] RSVP mailto link on meetings where this is needed? [ ] Note that meetings are free and open to the public (if they are)? [ ] If there's a special fee, is it disclosed next to the event listing? [ ] If location / time / date formula has changed recently, is this noted prominently? [ ] Have you checked for event conflicts with other nearby groups, or with holidays? b. General: [ ] Includes event date-formulas (e.g., 4th Tuesdays)? Prominently? [ ] Maintainer mailto link? [ ] Last-revised date? c. Periodically (maybe every quarter): [ ] Checked all links on your site for dead links? [ ] Checked your Web server's logs for pages requested but not found? (You'll want to put a referral page at that URL.) [ ] Read all your Web content attentively for outdated content? 2. Other, periodical: [ ] Reviewed/updated all LUG lists that have entries concerning your group? [ ] Reviewed all sites that link to yours? Advised their webmasters of needed corrections? Last revised: 2003-08-04 Having seen (and run) quite a few Linux user groups (LUGs), and observed some thrive and others die, I can hazard some firm recommendations. If you're thinking of starting a LUG, or are running one now, please ponder these lessons, drawn from other LUGs' experience. In fact, please consider reviewing this list from time to time, as a kind of checklist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ d88888b d8b db Frederick Noronha * Freelance Journalist * Goa India 88' 888o 88 f r e d @ b y t e s f o r a l l . o r g 88ooo 88V8o 88 http://www.bytesforall.org * http://fn.swiki.net 88~~~ 88 V8o88 Phone 0091.832.2409490 Mobile 09822 122436 88 88 V888 784 Nr Lourdes Convent, Sonarbhat Saligao Goa 403511 YP VP V8P Writing ... with a difference, on issues that matter

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Patents can Kill People
by Venkat Kumaraswamy 03 Mar '05

03 Mar '05

Good work Ankit Ankit Malik <ankitmalik(a)gmail.com> wrote:Just sent an email to the Prez with a link to Pravi's blog. Hope he will read it. Next Target: Times Of India's Letter to editor On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:06:53 -0800 (PST), Venkat Kumaraswamy wrote: > Email:cpim@vsnl.com > Communist Party of India (Marxist) > A.K. Gopalan Bhawan > 27-29, Bhai Vir Singh Marg, New Delhi 110 001 > Tel. (91-11) 23344918, 23363692, 23747435/36 > fax: (91-11) 23747483 > > Vijay Kumar wrote: > Ramanraj K writes: > > > http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=65640 > > > > Please post any links, articles, views or opinions that could help in > > voicing our concern against the proposed drastic amendments to the > > Patents Act. > > Are we not too late? > > If not, can we write to the CPI(M) about this? There have been > articles about the Patents Ordinance in People's Democracy(Weekly > magazine of CPI(M)). They are the only ones(among political parties) > who seem to be concerned about this. > > http://pd.cpim.org/2005/0130/01302005_snd.htm > http://pd.cpim.org/2005/0227/02272005_patent%20ordinance.htm > http://pd.cpim.org/2005/0130/01302005_dsf.htm > > Vijay > > _______________________________________________ > Fsf-friends mailing list > Fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in > http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends > > --------------------------------- > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web > _______________________________________________ > Fsf-friends mailing list > Fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in > http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends > -- _______________________ Ankit Malik http://scribbler.tk _______________________________________________ Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends --------------------------------- Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

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[Fsf-friends] RMS and Delhi Visit -- Is it the way we receive guests ? Especially a man like RMS -- sighs
by Praveen A 03 Mar '05

03 Mar '05

This was how RMS felt when he received in Delhi ---------------------- I arrived at Delhi at 3am on a flight that had been delayed by an hour and a half. I had expected to do a lot of work on the flight, but I was unexpectedly drowsy and nodded off for a few hours. When I arrived at the airport, the wait for passport control was only 20 minutes, and I spent part of the time explaining free software to another passenger who was curious about it. My bag was already in the carousel when I reached it, so I exited into the terminal and passed along the line of people holding up signs. None had my name on it. The person who was supposed to meet me was not there. Read Full http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/entry-20050222.html It is very disturbing to read it ... -- "There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels." A proud GNU user http://www.gnu.org http://www.edathanattukara.com My Weblog at http://www.livejournal.com/users/pravi Visit me at http://www.pravi.tk Rediscover the web ! Get firefox at http://www.getfirefox.com Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

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Fsf-friends March 2005