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3393 discussions

Re: Microsoft to share ...
by CK Raju 25 Dec '02

25 Dec '02

Satish, > the issue is not just about property rights. the issue is about .. > itself. i am not responding to just one feature of the debate. it... > all. if a hypothesis cannot stand the weakest test, how strong wou.. You appear to be putting forth crucial issues. FS movement is definite to prove a point here, when it finally brings down one such 'goliath' within the 'core'. While 'progress' that you mentioned is working in favour of this 'core' or 'centre' through manipulative moves, this movement now stands a good chance of claiming victory by organising the 'periphery' towards a common goal. The movement, by then would have acquired a huge proposition with a lot of workforce behind it, from where the next important 'reproduction of inequality' can be addressed. Perhaps, it would be for this reason, that 'technology' would be remembered for generations, in achieving, what has so far eluded most philosophers, towards, suggesting a safe way out. Since most of them in their own areas, have already created necessary 'backups', recreating glory and prosperity may not be all that difficult. Moreover these issues are not just confined to inner circles of philosophers,of late, they have been projected even by the CIA, for instance, the growing 'inequality and power divide' has been identified as the most 'possible' cause behind the unrest, that the developed nations are currently worried about. This should not idle us from going ahead, as the 'core' needs to be scared, for it to get 'adjusted' to being 'less violent', in order for our 'governments' to acquire some amount of confidence, to be real 'alternatives' and not just 'alternations'. CK Raju -------------------------------------------------------

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"Intellectual Property"
by vsasi＠vsnl.com 25 Dec '02

25 Dec '02

agreed about the right to believe. agreed also about the fact that the majority is not always right. but you seem to have overlooked a lot of things i had written before that. please do give that also a thought. regards v. sasi kumar sjha(a)vsnl.com wrote all members of parliament can get more votes than sunil. therefore going by your logic should i entrust them with the task of writing the basic tenets of philosophy of science? just because someone is an infectious speaker does not make them right. no, what he is saying is his belief system and he has a right to have that and you have as much right to believe in something that i consider wrong or questionable. thanks much ________________________________ satish jha cmd, james martin & co www.jmcin.com president, digital partners india n-103, panchsheel park, new delhi - 110 017 v: 649 9384/5; 649 4384/5 f: 649 4380 ----- Original Message ----- From: "V. Sasi Kumar" <vsasi(a)vsnl.com> To: "satish jha" <sjha(a)vsnl.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Fsf-friends] Re: [bytesforall_readers] Microsoft to shareWindows code withIndia > On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 01:03, satish jha wrote: > > sunil: > > > > thanks much. went to the recommended site. i don't think you need ti oversimplify it. it is oversimplified in itself though it could do with a bit of editing. > > > > having seen it, read it i am persuaded that its propounders live in a world of their own and have a right to do so. > > Thanks. > > i believe that without intellectual property rights there may have been some ideas. innovation, technolgy development and progres would have taken another path altogether and it can be shown that at least in terms of economics as we know it, it would be a sub-optimal model compared to what we have known. > > You forget that a large part of development took place without what you > call "intellectual property rights". Those who claim rights for > "intellectual property" forget that they have made ample use of similar > "intellectual property" that others could have laid claim to. Would they > be willing to share their "property rights" with everyone who has > contributed towards its generation, right from the people who invented > the wheel? Remember, even Isaac Newton, one of the greatest scientists > ever, said that "If I have seen further, it is because I have stood on > the shoulders of giants". > > In India we have a model of knowledge that has been of tremendous value > to humanity, which grew, and continues to grow, without the benefit of > "intellectual property rights" - I refer to Ayurveda. But I tend to > agree with you when you say that there may have been a different path > of progress if "intellectual property rights" - that path would have led > to a more equitable society, something that is much more valuable to > people like us in this list than what goes by the word "progress" today. > > i do not wish to debate it on this forum for a variety of reasons and would think while the debate has a place on this forum, it may not be the right place for allocating majority of its time to free software etc. > > I think if you had no desire to debate this on this forum, then you > should not have raised the question here. > > > you are an infectious speaker and will always sway people your way. that will not persuade me to go along with the substance of it though. > > What you are essentially saying is that you admit that what Sunil said > is true, but you are not willing to admit it. That is really good. > > > > > thanks much > > ________________________________ > > satish jha > > cmd, james martin & co > > www.jmcin.com > > president, digital partners india > > n-103, panchsheel park, > > new delhi - 110 017 > > v: 649 9384/5; 649 4384/5 > > f: 649 4380 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: sunil > > To: bytesforall_readers(a)yahoogroups.com > > Cc: linux-india-general(a)lists.sourceforge.net ; fsf-friends(a)gnu.org.in > > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 5:21 PM > > Subject: Re: [bytesforall_readers] Microsoft to share Windows code withIndia > > > > > > Dear Satish, > > > > Free Software is not Open Source Software. Access to code is not the main > > issue. Free License implies Ownership and Control. It is not the recipe of > > coke but the ownership of coke. > > > > Copyrighting is the root cause of the digital divide... here is an > > oversimplification so that you can understand.. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Before the concept of Private Property: > > No Economic Divide > > After the concept of Private Property: > > Land Owners > > Landless > > Economic Divide > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Before the concept of Intellectual Property:- > > No Digital Divide > > After the concept of Intellectual Property: > > Those with Knowledge > > Those without Knowledge > > Digital Divide > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > You will notice this trend in all forms of privatization:- water, phrases, > > gestures, ideas, products etc. > > > > General Public License transfers ownership of digital assets to the poor. > > To use a Marxist phrase - the means of production in the knowledge economy > > will be transfered to the poor. This is a 'critical' component of any > > digital divide intervention.Without this type of systemic intervention all > > other ICT is merely technology band-aid. > > > > Please see my IIM-B presentation for more details: > > http://www.mahiti.org/events/Event.2002-12-16.3025/view > > > > Thanks, > > > > Sunil > > Thanks, > > > > Sunil > > > > ===== > > Sunil Abraham [MAHITI] > > 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur > > Bangalore - 560 071 Karnataka, INDIA > > Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003. Pager: 9624 279519 > > sunil(a)mahiti.org http://www.mahiti.org > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > bytesforall_readers-unsubscribe(a)yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > >

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Re: [bytesforall_readers] Microsoft to share Windows code with India
by sunil 24 Dec '02

24 Dec '02

Dear Satish, Free Software is not Open Source Software. Access to code is not the main issue. Free License implies Ownership and Control. It is not the recipe of coke but the ownership of coke. Copyrighting is the root cause of the digital divide... here is an oversimplification so that you can understand.. ------------------------------------------------------ Before the concept of Private Property: No Economic Divide After the concept of Private Property: Land Owners Landless Economic Divide ------------------------------------------------------ Before the concept of Intellectual Property:- No Digital Divide After the concept of Intellectual Property: Those with Knowledge Those without Knowledge Digital Divide ------------------------------------------------------ You will notice this trend in all forms of privatization:- water, phrases, gestures, ideas, products etc. General Public License transfers ownership of digital assets to the poor. To use a Marxist phrase - the means of production in the knowledge economy will be transfered to the poor. This is a 'critical' component of any digital divide intervention.Without this type of systemic intervention all other ICT is merely technology band-aid. Please see my IIM-B presentation for more details: http://www.mahiti.org/events/Event.2002-12-16.3025/view Thanks, Sunil Thanks, Sunil ===== Sunil Abraham [MAHITI] 314/1, 7th Cross, Domlur Bangalore - 560 071 Karnataka, INDIA Ph/Fax: +91 80 5352003. Pager: 9624 279519 sunil(a)mahiti.org http://www.mahiti.org

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What is Knoppix... and more
by Frederick Noronha 23 Dec '02

23 Dec '02

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html KNOPPIX 3.1 Released Version 3.1 of KNOPPIX with KDE 3.0.4 and many other new features (see [23]CHANGELOG and [24]packages.txt) has been gone from internal tests to a public Betatest release, and is now available on the public [25]mirrors. The information on this webpage has been modified accordingly. New: Starting from Release 29-08-2002, KNOPPIX is capable of booting remotely via PXE from a server already running KNOPPIX. This is especially useful for clients that have no CD-rom drive, but a Linux-supported bootable network card. _________________________________________________________________ What is KNOPPIX�? KNOPPIX is a bootable CD with a collection of [30]GNU/Linux software, automatic hardware detection, and support for many graphics cards, sound cards, SCSI and USB devices and other peripherals. KNOPPIX can be used as a Linux demo, educational CD, rescue system, or adapted and used as a platform for commercial software product demos. It is not necessary to install anything on a hard disk. Due to on-the-fly decompression, the CD can have up to 2 GB of executable software installed on it. * [31]Slides for the Knoppix presentation at the Chemnitzer Linux-Tagen 2002 (PDF, German) * [32]Slides for the cloop presentation at the Chemnitzer Linux-Tagen 2002 (PDF, German) * [33]Paper for the Annual Linux Showcase 2000 (HTML, English) * [34]Paper for the Annual Linux Showcase 2000 (PDF, English) * [35]Slides for the presentation at the Annual Linux Showcase 2000 (PDF, English) * Slide updates for the presentations at the IFA 2001 (English) [36][Postscript] [37][PDF] * [38]Sources for the special components of the KNOPPIX-CD How is KNOPPIX started? To start the CD, set up the BIOS of your computer to boot off the CD, put the CD in the drive, and power up the computer. If your computer doesn't support this option, you have to use a boot disk. You can create this disk from the image in KNOPPIX/boot.img on the CD. Is there a mailing list, a forum or a newsletter for KNOPPIX? New: A [142]web-based Knoppix-Forum is now present at [143]http://www.linuxtag.org/forum/. Interested beta testers can fill out [144]the web form to be included in the newsletter for beta testers. They can find out about new versions and planned features, or make suggestions for future versions. Developers and people interested in technical discussions can subscribe to the Knoppix developers' list at [145]debian-knoppix at linuxtag.org. ______________________________________________________________________ � Klaus Knopper [150]<knoppix(a)knopper.net>

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Mentoring students !!
by Tarun Gaur 23 Dec '02

23 Dec '02

Hi Richard, Free software will follow. All of us will need each other's help to pull it off with students community in india. I am already working on making students aware of the movement. Now there seems to be a small issue here. I am unaware of who is formally handling the indian wing of GNU and on your advice, have been repeatedly mailing them from my informal and fomal mail ids but honestly, you (after handling GNU world over) respond faster than them. I am yet to hear from them. I suppose i have sent you the copies of the mails that i have sent to them too. I am not blaming anyone, but we have to act fast. The movement and free software! Richard, it will take time, but once it picks up in india, we'll rejoice on the results. Someone has to sow to reap the fruits later. As for the movement, what Suraj and others are doing is quite encouraging. Regards, Tarun Gaur From: Suraj Kumar <suraj(a)symonds.net> To: Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> CC: raamanp(a)yahoo.co.in, gaur_tarun(a)hotmail.com, fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in Subject: Re: [Fsf-friends] Mentoring students !! Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 08:26:19 +0530 Richard Stallman wrote on Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 12:12:11PM -0500: ,---- | ,---- | | We at Chennai have a movement for imparting ideals of | | Free Sofware to students, with aim of getting future | | developers. You can look at | | www.gpasokan.com/demo-schools | `---- | | | Have you managed to develop a useful free software package yet? `---- No. We have the following course of action: 1. Teach Free Software to school kids 2. Pilot a software development project - by students, for students, of students 3. Take this software to other schools; repeat through step 1 but in step 2 make students improve / fix bugs (thereby telling them the importance of sharing) We are also writing free books for use with a formal Free Software syllabus. There has been an overwhelming response from the community. We found a good deal of books. We will also be using a few books from gnupress.org and trim it down to fit a typical school student's mind. Our FAQ: http://gpasokan.com/demo-schools/faq.php -Suraj -- +-------------------------------------------------<suraj(a)symonds.net>--+ | Evils dare not touch families of high tradition, | | and succession free from blemishes | | (wealth of children - 2), Thirukkural | +--<http://symonds.net/~suraj/>----------------------------------------+ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=74… http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_advancedjm…

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Demo@School project
by Arun M 23 Dec '02

23 Dec '02

FSUG Chennai new affiliate of FSF India, will undertake activities of FSF India locally, in Tamilnadu. FSUG Chennai will also be coordinate the demo@schools program which tries to bring Free Software to schools. For more information contact demo-schools(a)gpasokan.com. Also, read a recent brief on demo@schools and what it does on Freedom Matters. More information on demo@schools site is available here http://gpasokan.com/demo-schools/. For FSF India.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Mentoring students !!
by Richard Stallman 22 Dec '02

22 Dec '02

We are also writing free books for use with a formal Free Software syllabus. That is a very important project. Can you show me one of them, whichever you think is best?

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Re: Sent Hurd, Connectiva
by Frederick Noronha 22 Dec '02

22 Dec '02

This is what a friend of mine from Belgaum says about Hurd. It seems to be true...FN On Sun, 22 Dec 2002, Ashutosh Naik wrote: > Hi Fred, > Rohan just sent u Connectiva and Hurd yesterday.. > Hope it reaches u soon.. I am also sending a copy of > Hurd to Supreet in Pondy... And all the > techies,interested in Hurd are too busy developing > Hurd, rather than popularising it.... > Something needs to be done abt it.. > The new versions Knoppix, and Mandrake > r the most popular out here

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[OT] DRM battles
by Raju Mathur 22 Dec '02

22 Dec '02

[Beware: cross-posted] The DRM players are battling it out, and MS seems to be in a vulnerable position: http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0%2c15935%2c400412%2c00.html INTERTRUST Can Victor Shear Bring Down Microsoft? Maybe not. But his company's patent suit is the biggest legal threat to Microsoft since the antitrust case. FORTUNE Tuesday, December 17, 2002 By Roger Parloff A small Santa Clara, Calif., company called InterTrust Technologies maintains that it is, in fact, that company. Though there are those who dispute this claim, InterTrust has some awfully big players convinced, including consumer electronics giants Sony and Philips. Indeed, in November, the two companies offered to buy InterTrust for $453 million in cash; as FORTUNE goes to press, they are in the process of trying to close the acquisition. In its current incarnation, InterTrust consists of 39 employees and a patent portfolio: 26 issued patents and about 85 more pending, all in the fields of DRM and trusted systems. InterTrust also has one other asset of note: a suit against Microsoft that appears to be the highest-stakes patent litigation in history. The suit's charges give a good feel for the scope and breadth of InterTrust's patents, at least as InterTrust sees it. The company says its patents are being infringed every time Microsoft ships its Windows XP operating system; Office XP suite; Word 2002 word processor; Excel 2002 spreadsheet; Outlook 2002 e-mail client; PowerPoint 2002 slide presentation software; Windows Media Player; Xbox videogame console; Microsoft software for servers, mobile phones, pocket computers, and consumer electronics devices; and many of the components and tool kits that Microsoft now markets in connection with its most cutting-edge "bet the company" initiative: the networked computing and web-services platform known as .NET. Understand what that means: InterTrust is seeking an injunction barring distribution of about 85% of Microsoft's product line. (Though the DRM and trusted systems technologies form only a piece of each product, they have been, in Microsoft's trademark fashion, tightly integrated into these larger programs.) InterTrust seeks damages too--which could be trebled if Microsoft were shown to have acted willfully. Polaroid's spectacular 1976 patent suit against Kodak--which eventually forced Kodak to scrap its $2 billion foray into instant photography and pay $900 million in damages--is dwarfed by the scope of the InterTrust-Microsoft litigation. [snip] -- Raju Mathur raju(a)kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ It is the mind that moves

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NEWSLETTER: GNU/LinuxIndia Dec 22, 2002
by Frederick Noronha 21 Dec '02

21 Dec '02

e88~~\ 888b | 888 | L 888 888 ,e, d888 |Y88b | 888 | I 888 888-~88e e88~\888 " /~~~8e 8888 __ | Y88b | 888 | N 888 888 888 d888 888 888 88b 8888 | | Y88b | 888 | U 888 888 888 8888 888 888 e88~-888 Y888 | | Y88b| Y88 | X 888 888 888 Y888 888 888 C888 888 "88__/ | Y888 "8__/ / 888 888 888 "88_/888 888 "88_-888 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Formerly LinuxInIndia * Compiled by: Frederick Noronha * Dec 22,2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------- o GNU/LINUX UTILITIES FOR EDUCATION... GLUE: Ajith Kumar <ajith(a)nsc.ernet.in> deserves credit for his work on this front. Recently, Ajith announced that his product -- the "GNU Linux Utilities for Education" CD is now hosted at "ftp.seul.org". This is a bootable CD that will install a GNU/Linux system with OpenOffice, several educational software packages and the Terminal Server Software "within 10 minutes", as he puts it. Ajith needs help in testing. You can download the ISO image from ftp://ftp.seul.org/pub/glue/ Bowse the contents of it at ftp://ftp.seul.org/pub/glue/GLUE/index.html Recently, Ajith was demoing the CD to the Press. Says he: "It takes only 10 minutes to setup the lab. Method is extreamly simple. Create a RedHat (or any other) installation and all other required software. Make a tarball of it. A bootable CD with a small script plants it to another computer. "Kudzu" does a good job in detecting new hardware." Free Software campaigners in the Southern State of Kerala are convinced that the local government is "wasting their money" if they sign a MoU (memorandum of understanding) for costly proprietorial software to be implemented in their IT@School Project. o MAKING FREE SOFTWARE/OPEN SOURCE A 'HOUSEHOLD NAME': Abhishek <efylinux1(a)electronicsforu.com> of ElectronicsForYou magazine writes in to announce the planned launch of a new Indian mag, devoted entirely to Free Software and Open Source. Some key facts, as promised by this publishing group, are as follows. Launch date: mid January 2003. Pages: 100 plus. Cover price: Rs 50, or about US$1 (including a CD). This mag is likely to be called 'Linux For You'. It is being published by the same group that brings out 'Electronics For You' and the 'i.t.' magazines. Ideas, suggestions, doubts and inputs for editorial content invited. o LINUX-INDIA GENERAL: This is the list which still is working to play the role of networking different Free/Libre and Open Source Software initiatives across India. See the Linux-India General list at https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-india-general o LITTLE LEAGUE: The idea is to help smaller LUGs around India to network and share resources and ideas to grow and survive. If you belong to this category, contact Sukrit D of Pondicherry <sd_root(a)yahoo.com>. There's also an offer to help you get inexpensive (maybe even zero-cost) CDs of useful distros... provided you undertake to share the same widely in your area. o BELGAUM LUG: Belgaum is a city of c. 300,000 in North Karnataka and home to one of the youngest GNU/Linux user groups in India. This was recently launched with most members being students of the Gogte College of Engineering there. If you'd like to get in touch contact Ashutosh Naik <a7ash(a)yahoo.com> and Rohan Kangralkar <rohankangralkar(a)hotmail.com>. See also their list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ilug-belgaum All the best to them. o LINKING STUDENTS, PROJECTS, MENTORS: Mumbai/Bombay-based Trevor Warren <trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com> or <trevor.w(a)media.mit.edu>, while still in his early twenties, has come up with this idea of a Project Resource Centre. The goal? To link students wanting socially-useful and challenging projects with techies willing to play the role of mentors. Any volunteers? Says Warren: "As of now...we are looking forwards to having a decent site dissimanating information to the FSF/OS community on the following aspects. --> What is the objective of the PRC. --> List of projects for (students) to take up --> List of mentors with their skill sets (based on a Wiki-like tool) --> List of projects students/community wants to propose --> Section for commercial projects that the industry wants to offer --> Collabration tool for all. Tripta <tripta(a)sarai.net> from Delhi, another young lady behind a lot of interesting work, volunteered to list some of the people who have already signed up at the PRC as mentors, some possible projects, and who's coming forward to work on the same. For more details, sign on or check out the archives at the site http://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/prc -------------------------------------------------------------------------- SiteWatch RANDOMLY-SELECTED INDIAN GNU/LINUX SITES: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://ilugmvgr.sourceforge.net Hi all, this is MVGR college linux user group website. In this website we will chat and explore to Linux as well as Linux applications. This website has lots of information as well as good links to visit on LINUX. Every one is invited to join us, we are well supported by OSDN (open source development network), SOURCEFORGE (world's biggest open source arena) as well as lots of Linux lovers.... We will discuss all Linux issues and help each other. Members can also write application programs for Linux but under GNU (the General Public License). http://groups.yahoo.com/group/in-phpug A group for PHP users and developers in India. Anyone and everyone who is interested in PHP, the world's most popular scripting language, is invited to join the Indian PHP User Group. Share your code, your problem, search for solutions, create fantastic new projects. And most importantly *enjoy*. Founded Dec 2001. Members 103. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- YOUR INPUTS to this newsletter are welcome. Volunteers more than welcome. Contact us at fred at bytesforall dot org --COPYLEFT 2002, GPL. May be freely circulated provided entire text is retained. FN --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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