- Fsf-friends - lists.fsci.in

RE: [Fsf-friends] newindpress article
by Senthil_OR＠Dell.com 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

> -----Original Message----- > From: Rishi Gangoly > Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 6:09 PM > > On Tue December 23 2003 4:05 pm, Senthil_OR(a)Dell.com wrote: > > > http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IER20031223001556& > > > > I read this article and I am completely surprised. > > > > For RH9.0 and Fedora,I believe,any number of copies can be made and > > distributed. > > It is available for Free Download in the Redhat FTP itself. > > > > The article is not giving the complete picture. > > > I suggest you read this page specifically regarding distribution. > > http://fedora.redhat.com/about/trademarks/guidelines/page4.html > > Also in general you should go through the Trademark Guidelines before > considering distributing it commercially. > > http://fedora.redhat.com/about/trademarks/ > > Regards > I went through the two links you provided. and I did not find anything related to the story itself. See, the news article states as: ...a fresh case of mass copying of the Linux-based Operating System of Red Hat India by the Centre for Development of Imaging Technology (C-DIT) has surfaced... Now, the Fedora License says that: This agreement governs the download, installation or use of the Software (as defined below) and any updates to the Software,**regardless of the delivery mechanism**. The Software is a collective work under U.S. Copyright Law. Subject to the following terms, Fedora Project grants to the user ("User") a license to this collective work pursuant to the ***GNU General Public License***. The link you sent was like the copyright over the name 'Fedora'. I will be sued by RH, if I write an OS and call it Fedora, use its logo. I am free to distribute Fedora( from Redhat) to my friends. Now, coming to the New Ind Press article again, it did not mention, if C-DIT used RH9.0 ( or similar consumer based OS or they used RH-EL). Thus, it gave a wrong picture of the general public. Thanks, Senthil

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RE: [Fsf-friends]
by Senthil_OR＠Dell.com 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

> | > http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IER20031223001556& I read this article and I am completely surprised. Redhat comes in different versions; home-users and enterprise users. For home-users,the last series was Redhat 9.0 and it has been stopped. Fedora Project having the same rpms and srpms has taken over. For RH9.0 and Fedora,I believe,any number of copies can be made and distributed. It is available for Free Download in the Redhat FTP itself. But Enterprise Linux series. RH 2.1AS and RH3.1 EL come for a cost. The cost is for some management packages and the support they provide for Enterprise customers. The article is not giving the complete picture. It is just giving a rough news and definitely not a good outlook to the public. -Senthil

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RE: [Fsf-friends] No warranty
by Senthil_OR＠Dell.com 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

Dear FSF-Friends, I am good comp-sci guy. My head is paining with this. Please provide me some "Free" water, atleast. :) Senthil > Ramanraj K wrote: > > NO WARRANTY > > 11. BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE > IS NO WARRANTY > FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. > EXCEPT WHEN > OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES > PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, > EITHER EXPRESSED > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF > MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE > ENTIRE RISK AS > TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE > PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY > SERVICING, > REPAIR OR CORRECTION. > > </quote> > > The GPL, under clause 11 says: > > "THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE > PROGRAM IS WITH YOU." > > >

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Re: [Fsf-friends]
by Rajkumar S 23 Dec '03

23 Dec '03

> Its true that redhat is partly proprietary. Why do you say that? Which non free software are they distributing ? I have never heard some one describing RH as prop. raj

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Wealth by copyleft... creativity in the digital age
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- Call for Contribution ===================== Wealth by copyleft ================== Creativity in the digital age ============================= 3. Oekonux Conference May 20th-23rd, 2004 Department of Philosophy at Vienna University ______________________________________________________________________ Project Oekonux --------------- In Project Oekonux [http://www.oekonux.org/] and in the neighboring OpenTheory [http://www.opentheory.org/] different people with different opinions and different methods study the economic and political forms of Free Software. An important question is, whether the principles of the development of Free Software (without exchange in the core, self-organized, common and unlimited participation in the production knowledge) may be the foundation of a new economy which is no longer based on the dogma of economic scarcity. New economy may also mean the basis for a new form of society. So Oekonux is not only concerned with Free Software but with the relation of Free Software and transformation of society. From the far ranging Oekonux debate new views on past transformation processes of society and a completely new theory of transformation of society emerge - e.g. the germ form hypothesis. A closely related question is, whether, where and how in the given economic and societal framework a culture of Free Information Goods emerges and thus makes the principles of the development of Free Software fruitful for other areas. Are the principles of the development of Free Software a temporary or integratable phenomenon or do they spread in other areas of society sooner or later. The conference -------------- The motto of the conference "Wealth by copyleft -- Creativity in the digital age" points especially to these questions: o How do the production methods of Free Software affect science, art, education, production? o Does the wealth of the information society come from patents and "Creative Industries"? Or does Copyleft gain legitimization for a more powerful and sustainable source of wealth beyond the logic of money? o Which coalitions do evolve in these processes and on which basis do they work? o Special interest receives the relation of Free Selbstentfaltung and societal agreements: How do self-organized societal relations come into being and how do they grow? How does cooperation and self-organization function at all? Especially: How are conflicts and power handled? Meanwhile for these and similar questions the Oekonux community became an internationally recognized focus point. From the simple mailing list this virtual community slowly develops into a collective research project - without a prior project management. Factual needs and their perception shall determine the next step. A slowly emerging consensus and the work of accepted maintainers are the moving spirit. This is producing theory just as Free Software. After the success of the 1. [http://erste.oekonux-konferenz.de/] and 2. [http://second.oekonux-conference.org/] Oekonux conference the 3. Oekonux conference [http://www.oekonux-conference.org/] takes place in cooperation with the Institute for Philosophy in Vienna. Besides the questions raised above contributions to these topics are welcome. o Free Software Experiences from projects, success stories, but also conflicts, contradictions (for example making money vs. self-unfolding, wage labor vs. Free Doing, etc.) as well as studies about the phenomenon of Free Software. o Technological development Examples of development of technology with a potential similar to Free Software. What significance do Free Standards have? What may such a technological development mean for ecological questions? o Alternative and anti-economy Theoretical models of the abolition of exchange, labor, and money. Practical experiences in projects on the height of the technological and social development. Contradictions of theory and practice. o How can Oekonux become practical? Interesting are suggestions for concrete projects, which try to practice our ideas. Free Licenses for other fields, gratis shops, ... For all contributions the relation to the topic field of Oekonux should be recognizable. The planned conference shall give room to bundle, collectively re-discuss and make fruitful for all, thoughts which developed in different places independently. Besides getting to know one other in talks and workshops the respective current state of the discussion shall be presented. Moreover there will be a concentrated introduction in the content of the Oekonux debate. Speakers wanted --------------- People interested in giving a talk, preparing a workshop or moderate a discussion round please submit a short outline of their intentions to Project Oekonux [mailto:projekt@oekonux.de]. (Mails to this address are archived on the web. Please ask there if there is a problem with this.) If someone wants to add some other kind of contribution please also contact this address. Deadline for such outlines is March 1st, 2004 Decision about the chosen contributions is until March 31th, 2004. The conference languages are German and English. Translators are needed! --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- 8< --- FORWARDED THROUGH INDIA BY: -- Frederick Noronha : http://www.fredericknoronha.net Ph 0091.832.2409490 Freelance Journalist : http://www.bytesforall.org Ph 0091.832.2409783 http://fredericknoronha.blogware.com Cell 0 9822 122436

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Morphix-GIS
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

Anyone wants this CD? We can arrange to distribute it via our low-cost CD store run by Aniket <aniket at gmx.net>: MORPHIX-GIS: This CD contains two GIS applications and other useful software that can be freely distributed. The CD is bootable. It contains a full networked operating system with applications. All applications can be used from the CD itself. You can also install it on your hard disk. the CD autoruns in MS Windows, showing a help file. This CD has been compiled with special emphasis to GIS packages. Two mature GIS applications (GRASS and SPRING), a map viewer (Thuban) and several other applications. The directory /usr/local/Gisdoc gives some tutorial files for the GIS applications. The directory /usr/local/Gisdata gives some example data files for Thuban. For limited help with the CD, mail to: Dr C M Harish cmharic at postmark.net or Dr V Sasi Kumar vsasi at hotpop.com I am grateful to Dr Harish at Thiruvananthapuram for sending me a copy, gratis. -- Frederick Noronha : http://www.fredericknoronha.net Ph 0091.832.2409490 Freelance Journalist : http://www.bytesforall.org Ph 0091.832.2409783 http://fredericknoronha.blogware.com Cell 0 9822 122436

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Interesting speech by RMS
by fjsylvester 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

hi friends, I found this speech by RMS on the net I forgot the url from were I saved it on my pc. Can you trust your computer? By Richard Stallman - Who should your computer take its orders from? Most people think their computers should obey them, not obey someone else. With a plan they call "trusted computing," large media corporations (including the movie companies and record companies), together with computer companies such as Microsoft and Intel, are planning to make your computer obey them instead of you. Proprietary programs have included malicious features before, but this plan would make it universal. Proprietary software means, fundamentally, that you don't control what it does; you can't study the source code, or change it. It's not surprising that clever businessmen find ways to use their control to put you at a disadvantage. Microsoft has done this several times: one version of Windows was designed to report to Microsoft all the software on your hard disk; a recent "security" upgrade in Windows Media Player required users to agree to new restrictions. But Microsoft is not alone: the KaZaa music-sharing software is designed so that KaZaa's business partner can rent out the use of your computer to their clients. These malicious features are often secret, but even once you know about them it is hard to remove them, since you don't have the source code. In the past, these were isolated incidents. "Trusted computing" would make it pervasive. "Treacherous computing" is a more appropriate name, because the plan is designed to make sure your computer will systematically disobey you. In fact, it is designed to stop your computer from functioning as a general-purpose computer. Every operation may require explicit permission. The technical idea underlying treacherous computing is that the computer includes a digital encryption and signature device, and the keys are kept secret from you. (Microsoft's version of this is called "palladium.") Proprietary programs will use this device to control which other programs you can run, which documents or data you can access, and what programs you can pass them to. These programs will continually download new authorization rules through the Internet, and impose those rules automatically on your work. If you don't allow your computer to obtain the new rules periodically from the Internet, some capabilities will automatically cease to function. Of course, Hollywood and the record companies plan to use treacherous computing for "DRM" (Digital Restrictions Management), so that downloaded videos and music can be played only on one specified computer. Sharing will be entirely impossible, at least using the authorized files that you would get from those companies. You, the public, ought to have both the freedom and the ability to share these things. (I expect that someone will find a way to produce unencrypted versions, and to upload and share them, so DRM will not entirely succeed, but that is no excuse for the system.) Making sharing impossible is bad enough, but it gets worse. There are plans to use the same facility for email and documents -- resulting in email that disappears in two weeks, or documents that can only be read on the computers in one company. Imagine if you get an email from your boss telling you to do something that you think is risky; a month later, when it backfires, you can't use the email to show that the decision was not yours. "Getting it in writing" doesn't protect you when the order is written in disappearing ink. Imagine if you get an email from your boss stating a policy that is illegal or morally outrageous, such as to shred your company's audit documents, or to allow a dangerous threat to your country to move forward unchecked. Today you can send this to a reporter and expose the activity. With treacherous computing, the reporter won't be able to read the document; her computer will refuse to obey her. Treacherous computing becomes a paradise for corruption. Word processors such as Microsoft Word could use treacherous computing when they save your documents, to make sure no competing word processors can read them. Today we must figure out the secrets of Word format by laborious experiments in order to make free word processors read Word documents. If Word encrypts documents using treacherous computing when saving them, the free software community won't have a chance of developing software to read them -- and if we could, such programs might even be forbidden by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Programs that use treacherous computing will continually download new authorization rules through the Internet, and impose those rules automatically on your work. If Microsoft, or the U.S. government, does not like what you said in a document you wrote, they could post new instructions telling all computers to refuse to let anyone read that document. Each computer would obey when it downloads the new instructions. Your writing would be subject to 1984-style retroactive erasure. You might be unable to read it yourself. You might think you can find out what nasty things a treacherous computing application does, study how painful they are, and decide whether to accept them. It would be short-sighted and foolish to accept, but the point is that the deal you think you are making won't stand still. Once you come depend on using the program, you are hooked and they know it; then they can change the deal. Some applications will automatically download upgrades that will do something different -- and they won't give you a choice about whether to upgrade. Today you can avoid being restricted by proprietary software by not using it. If you run GNU/Linux or another free operating system, and if you avoid installing proprietary applications on it, then you are in charge of what your computer does. If a free program has a malicious feature, other developers in the community will take it out, and you can use the corrected version. You can also run free application programs and tools on non-free operating systems; this falls short of fully giving you freedom, but many users do it. Treacherous computing puts the existence of free operating systems and free applications at risk, because you may not be able to run them at all.Some versions of treacherous computing would require the operating system to be specifically authorized by a particular company. Free operating systems could not be installed. Some versions of treacherous computing would require every program to be specifically authorized by the operating system developer. You could not run free applications on such a system. If you did figure out how, and told someone, that could be a crime. There are proposals already for U.S. laws that would require all computers to support treacherous computing, and to prohibit connecting old computers to the Internet. The CBDTPA (we call it the Consume But Don't Try Programming Act) is one of them. But even if they don't legally force you to switch to treacherous computing, the pressure to accept it may be enormous. Today people often use Word format for communication, although this causes several sorts of problems (see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html). If only a treacherous computing machine can read the latest Word documents, many people will switch to it, if they view the situation only in terms of individual action (take it or leave it). To oppose treacherous computing, we must join together and confront the situation as a collective choice. For further information about treacherous computing, see http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/tcpa-faq.html. To block treacherous computing will require large numbers of citizens to organize. We need your help! The Electronic Frontier Foundation (www.eff.org) and Public Knowledge (www.publicknowledge.org) are campaigning against treacherous computing, and so is the FSF-sponsored Digital Speech Project (www.digitalspeech.org). Please visit these Web sites so you can sign up to support their work. You can also help by writing to the public affairs offices of Intel, IBM,HP/Compaq, or anyone you have bought a computer from, explaining that you don't want to be pressured to buy "trusted" computing systems so you don't want them to produce any. This can bring consumer power to bear. If you do this on your own, please send copies of your letters to the organizations above. Postscripts: 1. The GNU Project distributes the GNU Privacy Guard, a program That implements public-key encryption and digital signatures, which you can useto send secure and private email. It is useful to explore how GPG differs from treacherous computing, and see what makes one helpful and the other so dangerous. When someone uses GPG to send you an encrypted document, and you use GPG to decode it, the result is an unencrypted document that you can read, forward, copy, and even re-encrypt to send it securely to someone else. A treacherous computing application would let you read the words on the screen, but would not let you produce an unencrypted document that you could use in other ways. GPG, a free software package, makes security features available to the users; they use it. Treacherous computing is designed to impose restrictions on the users; it uses them. 2. Microsoft presents Palladium as a security measure, and claims that it will protect against viruses, but this claim is evidently false. A presentation by Microsoft Research in October 2002 stated that one of the specifications of Palladium is that existing operating systems and applications will continue to run; therefore, viruses will continue to be able to do all the things that they can do today. When Microsoft speaks of "security" in connection with Palladium, they do not mean what we normally mean by that word: protecting your machine from things you do not want. They mean protecting your copies of data on your machine from access by you in ways others do not want. A slide in the presentation listed several types of secrets Palladium could be used to keep, including "third party secrets" and "user secrets" -- but it put "user secrets" in quotation marks, recognizing that this is not what Palladium is really designed for. The presentation made frequent use of other terms that we frequently associate with the context of security, such as "attack," "malicious code," "spoofing," as well as "trusted." None of them means what it normally means. "Attack" doesn't mean someone trying to hurt you, it means you trying to copy music. "Malicious code" means code installed by you to do what someone else doesn't want your machine to do. "Spoofing" doesn't mean someone fooling you, it means you fooling Palladium. And so on. 3. A previous statement by the Palladium developers stated the basic premise that whoever developed or collected information should have total control of how you use it. This would represent a revolutionary overturn of past ideas of ethics and of the legal system, and create an unprecedented system of control. The specific problems of these systems are no accident;they result from the basic goal. It is the goal we must reject. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/tcpa-faq.html. Copyright 2002 Richard Stallman Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article is permitted without royalty in any medium provided this notice is preserved. regards, sylvester

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Re: [Fsf-friends] WSF, RMS
by Senthil_OR＠Dell.com 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

> --- Arun M <arun(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > > > > RMS should be in india from Jan 16 to Feb 2nd. > > Will be participating in WSF. Could you please provide the itenerary of RMS. I think many like me, would be eager to know. wsfindia.org currently is down. Welcome to India, RMS! Senthil

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WSF, RMS
by Arun M 22 Dec '03

22 Dec '03

Hi, RMS should be in india from Jan 16 to Feb 2nd. Will be participating in WSF. regards, arun.

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Links to why RMS is an Inspiration to
by fjsylvester 21 Dec '03

21 Dec '03

I enjoyed reading the belowlinks http://www.mayin.org/aragorn//RMS/ http://www.hackgnu.org/rms_trip_log.txt regards sylvester

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No Loop
by Ramanraj K 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Ramanraj K wrote: > Is the Mailman in a Loop? Hope Mailman is OK. I wonder what Suraj has > to say about this? > My last mail was delivered correctly. Mailman is OK. May be Rakesh and Pai sent mail twice.

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Welcome Rms
by fjsylvester 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Dear friends, Merry Christmas season It will be great to see RMS in india in the new year Will he be coming to bombay ? I came to know about RMS when his photo and article was published inthe times of india ciao regards sylvester

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Linux 2.6.0 kernel released
by Soundara Rajan N.S 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Linux 2.6.0 kernel released Version 2.6.0 of the Linux kernel is ready for business. Readers of the linux-kernel mailing list learned that testing of the open-source operating system's new core ended late Wednesday, when Linus Torvalds sent an e-mail beginning with the cryptic phrase "The beaver is out of detox." Source : Technology and Business Daily Scoop dt 18.12.2003

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Help: Introducing students to OSS
by balachandran c 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

Hi friends, I have an opportunity to teach a few courses to computer science students at Engg. college tvm. I would like to know your opinions/ideas on introducing the students to OSS. Though I havent had much interaction with the students yet, i believe that most of the 2nd year guys are not familiar with Gnu/Linux. PS: Im new here Balachandran Chandrasekharan

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At the bottom of splitting threads
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Dear Mahesh Pai, Thanks for the reply. You are correct. I finally got to the bottom of this issue some hours ago, after reading: http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html <http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html> and made some trial and error postings. Some discussion about this went on at ILUGC also. If you are interested, please do visit: http://www.aero.iitm.ernet.in/pipermail/ilugc/2003-December/thread.html Regards, K. Ramanraj.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] [serious]How to write the subject line in emails while posting messages
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Hi Arky and Suraj, http://www.atra-tr.org/netetiquette.htm was helpful. I deliberately cross-posted the request to ILUGC also, to measure response rate! Suraj pointed to http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#bespecific But both links are generally useful but do not point specifically to answers on the subject raised. Now, please let me know if there is a serious page on this heavy subject [pun unintended]. How does mailman do the threading? [just the plain logic without code] How to fork the threading? Suppose I start a thread like "Is an International Free Software Treaty Possible?", is it possible to return to the thread even the next month? Can I view all posting on a single thread alone? Please do not think I know and I am asking :-) I am just trying to reach the root of the subject matter! Cheers! K. Ramanraj.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] [answer]How to write the subject line in emails while posting messages
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

I wrote: >Could anybody let me know how to write the subject line in emails, >while posting messages to mail lists, so that it is correctly threaded? The correct answer was found at: http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html Thanks for the help BGa and all who responded. Cheers! K. Ramanraj.

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[Fsf-friends] How to write the subject line in emails while posting messages
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Could anybody let me know how to write the subject line in emails, while posting messages to mail lists, so that it is correctly threaded?

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Re: Fund Raising for FSF-India
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Suraj <suraj(a)symonds.net> responded to my request to ilugc and fsf-friends, instantly, along with this correction: Please find the corrected document attached herewith. As for the correction about 'holy' vs 'wholly' I have made it '[w]hol[l]y'. Feel free to make any changes (and i would be helped if you can send back the changes so that I can maintain a nice copy of it for myself). The speech and the Q&A session must have been for 3 to 4 hours, and it has taken me that much time to merely correct punctuation, and I am only half way through! The RMS speech is important, as it conveys the entire history and philosophy of the Free Sofware movement in a capsule. It could probably be published as a booket by FSF-India. I wrote as follows to Suraj, privately: >Dear Suraj, > >Thanks for having done a wonderful job of writing the transcript of the RMS speech. It made me feel like I actually attended the meet. It must have taken a lot of your time and patience... > >Regards, >Ramanraj. I feel like gifting our young friend Suraj a carton of 5-Stars, all for himself :-) for the good work done!

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Help: Introducing students to OSS
by Harish Narayanan 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Greetings again. That sounds like a good collection of recent and friendly software. I had totally overlooked the possibility of a live CD such as Knoppix, I guess because I feel I am before their time and never had the chance (or made the time) to use one. That is an excellent way of getting people to use it and not have to worry about issues related to hard drive partition management. I really can't believe the thought didn't cross my mind. (But I am not sure of the speed implications of running from a CD, but then again, one problem at a time.) Again, I have to say, Cygwin, though extremely useful, usually tends to result in people assuming "that's how your average GNU Linux distribution will be like", so it wouldn't be my way of showing someone free software for the first time. Now for the more important part, in my opinion. I was pretty focused on what you were talking about too, again in my opinion. What I said had nothing to do with being politically correct. All the software you mentioned, are free. There is usually a lot more involved in these projects in the form of ideology, goals, their effect on society etc, which, I feel, is not adequately conveyed calling it open source. They might sound the same on paper, but the inherent ideologies of the camps are quite different, and it would have been important to me to clarify this to my students, had I the opportunity. I can see how this can be of different levels of importance to different people, and I was offering my opinion, which hopefully portrays what is important to me. Good luck, Harish Narayanan http://www-personal.umich.edu/~hnarayan/site/ balachandran c wrote: >Hi > >Thank you for your thoughful comments. Personally, I have already compiled cds of knoppix, firebird, openoffice (with sdk, documentation), eclipse and GIMP (with doc for writing scripts, plugins). Basically, the stuff I find interesting/useful. I was not sure about cygwin, and havent downloaded it yet. I think your suggestions are useful and will try to make the most of it. > >Calling it OSS? well, im pretty focused on what im talking about and at this moment, all i care is what i can do to meet my objectives. I believe that i know what im talking about and do not care about being politically correct. I am not undermining the importance of what you said, but just pointing out that it is just not my priority. > >thank you friend, > >bala > > > >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 Harish Narayanan wrote : > > >>Greetings. >> >>Firstly, it's nice to hear teachers at colleges taking the initiative. When I was in school/college (and still am for that matter), we weren't explicitly told about the ideals and goals of these projects, but we were exposed to a good deal of them since there were (and are) labs running these software, and we were using them often. >> >>But, (I don't quite know whether to refer to you as Balachandran or Sir, so I am going with neither) I am sure once you talk to your students you will be pleasantly surprised how much they have already been exposed to GNU Linux and other Free Software, and how much they have figured out on their own and from other people. From personal experience, anybody who I've known to be curious or read any magazine related to computers or technology has popped in a distribution install disc and tried playing with it at home. This has been, again in my experience, in high school, when they have finally decided they are brave enough to partition their hard disk. Many of them have gone on to be full time users. >> >>I think what I am trying to say is, a fair portion of the people, by second year in college have tried it, are using it or have friends who do. It would be nice if you could identify these people, and help them influence people they know to try it, or help them with installation or in other ways. This, I have seen is the easiest way to get people comfortable with it. My parents, for instance, don't have an issue now with using Mandrake GNU Linux (granted their usual realm of usage doesn't propagate too much beyond Galeon, gaim, OpenOffice.org and Ximian Evolution on a fairly standard GNOME desktop). But they wouldn't have made an attempt to get it installed on a machine themselves. Once that is done and everything is set up to "just work", they are comfortable without proprietary software. Anyway, enough of my personal experiences and to attempt to answer your question in a college setting. >> >>My suggestions include (not all are necessarily feasible, I know): >> >>* First, on the same note as above, organise a local user group for people who use these software, at a college or larger level, so that they can meet once a month or so and help/influence other people. (This is also a sort of social event for the geeky types. We need to get out more. At least this way it's with like minded people to an extent.) >>* If the primary work environment in labs is Windows based (which I am assuming it is) have the lab administrator install a fairly recent GNU Linux distribution on a separate partition and indicate to the students they can boot to it if they want. (Again, I am assuming you do not wish to remove the windows partition just yet). There is usually a rather common misconception that free software is harder to use, because it is free and used only by hackers. Once people try it, they could realize they were not entirely right. Plus there is usually a lot of cool stuff, the GIMP for instance, that can catch people's fancy. I'd have to say, superficial as it may be, programs like the GIMP and eye-candy in environments such as Enlightenment (no "real" updates in ages) made it cool and fun to use. Which is actually quite important when you are in school. >>* As a step leading to what I said above, replace (or install along side) standard windows software (such as MS Office, IE, Outlook Express ...) and other proprietary software, with free equivalents (OpenOffice.org, Firebird, Thunderbird ...). If people get used to, say OpenOffice.org on windows, and they realize it runs just the same or even better on GNU Linux, they will find it easier, and hence be more willing to make the shift. (Again, in my experience, environments such as Cygwin are generally of very different quality, so please don't make it a users first experience. They will tend to assume all software on an "actual" GNU Linux environment performs that way.) >>* Please don't force the coursework, in your case (I am assuming programming) to depend on the nuances of a particular compiler or platform (graphics programming for instance). Teach them standard programming practices based on rigorous standards, so people can use the compilers and build chains of their choice. Again hoping this will allow people to delve into GNU software, such as gcc, gdb and make. It will be hard to say, yes, GNU Linux can do this and that, but please code in MS Visual C++ because your assignment requires some win32 specific headers. The same goes for using, say Word to type out reports. Introduce them to Latex or a similar program, which may be harder initially, but once they get the hang of it, the quality of their work will be higher. ( I am not a student in the field of computer science, so am not entirely sure what really goes into the curriculum. The same logic also applies to say, HTML/XHTML, SQL and whatever else the curriculum might contain.) >>* As a practice, in general, following the same vein of the previous point, don't use proprietary or patented formats as far as possible for anything and set an example. If you want to play them, say an audio clip of a talk, use an Ogg Vorbis file and not an MP3. Someone will definitely notice this, and ask you why. Then you can use that as an opportunity to explain the ideals, which I have reiterated as my next point. >>* In classes, indicate the ideals and goals behind such projects. They will realize for themselves the technical superiority (or where it is lacking) of these tools in comparison with their proprietary counterparts. Once people understand the ideology, they will appreciate it a lot more. The ones so inclined will also contribute code, financially, bug reports etc.. to help these projects grow. >>* And please don't call it OSS. >> >>I could come up with a few more if I really thought about it, but I will wait to see how people feel about this existing set before I do. >> >>Just another student and FSF associate member from the month he started earning, >>Harish Narayanan >> >>balachandran c wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi friends, >>> >>>I have an opportunity to teach a few courses to computer science students at Engg. college tvm. I would like to know your opinions/ideas on introducing the students to OSS. Though I havent had much interaction with the students yet, i believe that most of the 2nd year guys are not familiar with Gnu/Linux. >>> >>>PS: Im new here >>> >>>Balachandran Chandrasekharan >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Fsf-friends mailing list >>>Fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in >>>http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends >>> >>> >>> > > > > > >

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Fund Raising for FSF-India
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

__ Explicit Note: These are *MY* own views__ Recently, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay <gajo(a)softhome.net <mailto:gajo%40softhome.net?Subject=%5BFsf-friends%5D%20About%20the%20preliminary%20draft%20i%20had%20sent%20in&In-Reply-To=>> wrote about extending the reach of FSF-India. Directly connected with this, is the question of raising funds for FSF-India. The issue does stare upon our faces, and we ought not to skirt this issue. I putforth here, what strikes me as correct. Please do send in your suggestions. I am sure FSF-India, could deal with this issue in a better way, when this is done voluntarily by all of us. 1) Donations: This, the FSF-India invites through its web site. It should help if FSF-India also draws up and publishes a budget. Any donation from even a mere Rs. 10^0 to even > Rs.10^10 should help. We cannot underestimate the value of even 10^0, when the population of India is more than10^9, and if each Indian were to contribute just 10^0, FSF-India would have Rs. 100 Crores at its disposal. But, since that is flying too high, more pragmatically individuals may be comfortable with the idea of contributing anything from 10^2to6, and it would be nice if FSF-India, could give away CD's or a DVD of stable releases of top software from the Free Software Directory to donors. Corporates and governments who use and earn considerable profits from Free Software, could start at 10^5 and share whatever they could to promote FSF-India. We have about two dozen states, and if each could send as little as anything from 10^6to9, that should build a solid corpus. Please always remember that, when we part with our wealth to FSF, all of us end up becoming more wealthy! 2) Free Software CD's/DVD's: I have never seen a GNU/Linux box in Chennai. I have to place orders to shops in Bangalore if I want a GNU/Linux box. FSF-India could package and distribute Free Software CD's/DVD's along with printed documentation, through major book stores. This could generate revenue. For all that I know, FSF-India may be the distribution point for the whole of Asia. Now, that could also earn foreign exchange for India. 3) Posters: Our friend Rakesh Ambati, suggested posters of the Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace by Perry John Barlow. We could have posters of GPL under the GNU head logo [I would frame one for my office], and may be of St. iGNUtius RMS with his famous lines: I bless your computer my child I'm saint iGNUtius of the church of Emacs. Emacs started out as a text editor but it became a way of life for many computer users and then a religion. infact there was an alt.religion.emacs newsgroup back around 1990. I don't know what it was used for because I never read net news. but so,emacs became a religion. we even have a great sism between two different versions of emacs. and now we have saints. fortunately no gods yet. To join the church of emacs you must repeat the confession of the faith three times. you must say, "There's no system other than the GNU. and Linux is one of its kernels." The church of Emacs has some advantages compared with some other churches because to be a saint in the church of Emacs does not require celibacy however it does require making a moral commitment to live a life of purity and then living by it. You must Exorcise the evil proprietary operating systems from all the computers you control. and then install a wholly free operating system instead. because wholly can be spelled in more than one ways. and then only install free software on top of that. if you make this commitments and live by it, then you too would be a saint and you too may eventually have a halo, if you can find one because we don't make them anymore Now sometimes people ask me "In the Church of Emacs, is it a sin to use vi?" The answer is that "Using a free version of vi is not a sin its a penance." and people sometimes ask me if my halo is really an old computer disk. this is no computer disk. this is my halo. But it was a computer disk in a previous life. so, 'happy hacking' every one! The ilugc has the full text of the above speech at: http://www.chennailug.org/rms-chennai.txt The first line, "I bless your computer my child", touched my heart because the blessing comes alive with a load of GNU free software. I have removed the [laughter] tags that you will find in the link above. More ideas for posters are welcome. There is scope for audio tapes and cd's too: including the free software song by RMS, and other free songs that can inspire and relax us. 3) T-Shirts, Shoes, Footballs and a whole range of sports gear: Arun proposed Khadi Kurtas. I particularly request Footballs. Whenever we see somebody kicking well, we could send them a FSF Football and write "Wow, you kick so well! I am impressed. Please kick well so that we can together reach the goal". Some will use Free Software but refuse to promote it. They get free kicks! We could have a special offer on a pair of Footballs, where the purchaser pays for two at a discount but is delivered only one, and the other is sent to the deserving candidate for free kicks. This special offer could be called "Share your kicks!". Our OpenSource friends may promote a whole range of events based on the FSF sports gear: International tournaments, open matches, etc - oh! what fun it will be! But since sports gear cannot be copied like software, these efforts will bring home wealth to FSF coffers to promote Free Software. With the FSF sports gear, regardless of the players, we can always reach and win the goal of sharing the true spirit. This is Christmas Season. We could send some Footballs to Santa Claus so that he could give away to children for free. But we should also watch out for entitites with the initials of Santa Claus who run after the balls they have given away for free all these years! 4) Free Computers Junction: Providing a junction for disposal of unwanted or discarded computer hardware and software that is still usable, could help people who need these for development efforts. This may be just a mailing list to start with. This is a kind of wealth, and could also be used by FSF-India, say in fairs for demo purposes. Now, please contribute something more and add to the above fund raising. <mailto:gajo%40softhome.net?Subject=%5BFsf-friends%5D%20About%20the%20preliminary%20draft%20i%20had%20sent%20in&In-Reply-To=>

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Help: Introducing students to OSS
by balachandran c 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Hi friends, I have an opportunity to teach a few courses to computer science students at Engg. college tvm. I would like to know your opinions/ideas on introducing the students to OSS. Though I havent had much interaction with the students yet, i believe that most of the 2nd year guys are not familiar with Gnu/Linux. PS: Im new here Balachandran Chandrasekharan

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[Fwd: [LIG] FSF India opinion :: Dept of Information Technology, GoI]
by Rajkumar S 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

Saw this on LIG, may be of interest to subscribers here raj -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [LIG] FSF India opinion :: Dept of Information Technology, GoI Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:42:41 +0530 From: Raghavendra Bhat <ragu(a)asianetonline.net> Reply-To: linux-india-general(a)lists.sourceforge.net To: linux-india-general(a)lists.sourceforge.net Section 87 of Information Technology Act, 2000 empowers the Government to regulate the file formats and standards to be followed in submission and issue of electronic records and money transfers between the government and public. The Department of Information Technology had invited opinion on the rules proposed to be framed. The opinion sent by FSF India can be read by linking here http://gnu.org.in/philosophy/mitrules.html -- ragOO http://puggy.symonds.net/~fsug-kochi

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About Warranty For Free Sofware
by Fitzgerald Joy Sylvester 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

dear friends, Why free software has no warranty If there is warranty then we would get more support for our cause , what if free software is run on a life support system regards sylvester

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[Fsf-friends] A help needed to correct transcript of RMS speech delivered at MIT
by Ramanraj K 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

The Chennai ILUG http://www.chennailug.org has published transcripts from the speech delivered by Richard M Stallman, founder of the Free Software Movement, at MIT, Chennai, on 13th, March, 2002 at : http://www.chennailug.org/rms-chennai.txt RMS recently had an occasion to view a part of it and suggested a few corrections to it as follows: <quote> but so,emacs became a religion. we even have a great sism between It's spelled "schism". You must Exorcise the evil proprietary operating systems from all the computers you control. and then install a wholly free operating system instead. I suggest writing "holy (= wholly)" here. if you make this commitments and live by it, then you too would be a Commitment, singular. </quote> It would be nice if all the typos and errors in the transcript are fixed. Is there anybody who attended the speech of RMS on 13th, March, 2002 at MIT and prepared to edit and correct the transcript?

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Local GNU ftp Mirror
by Ramanraj K 14 Dec '03

14 Dec '03

The address of GNU ftp mirror at IMTECH, Chandigarh is: ftp://www.imtech.res.in/pub/mirror_sites/gnuftp/

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[Fsf-friends] Promoting Free Software: Local RedHat/Debian/GNU Mirror
by Ramanraj K 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

I just noted that the IIT Madras has a mirror for RedHat and Debian . There is also a GNU mirror at Chandigarh. Please visit: http://www.chennailug.org/mirror.php

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hi all
by Fitzgerald Joy Sylvester 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

Merry Christmas season

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WSIS and Free Software
by Anivar Aravind 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

Some Interesting Links about The UNs World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) in Geneva 1.The WSIS: whose freedom, whose information? Solana Larsen The UNs World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) in Geneva is intended to create ways of bridging the global digital divide. But will its political tensions and complex agenda make it less of an internet-Kyoto and more of an arid talk shop? link: http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article-8-10-1630.jsp 2.World Summit on the Information Society: Brazil gets it right Brazil's official contribution to the summit affirms the importance of free software and the sharing of knowledge. link: http://www.for-the-people.org/blog/entries/entry.2003-12-11.5514 3.Wipe Out WIPO! Link: http://de.indymedia.org/2003/12/69764.shtml 4.Official Web of WSIS Link: http://www.itu.int/wsis/ 5.Wording on software and IPR reflects tough battle Geneva conference features heated debate By John Blau, IDG News Service Link: http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/12/11/HNConferencedebate_1.html 6. Ablog on WSIS Link: http://www.dailysummit.net/ regards Anivar Aravind -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.hackermail.com Powered by Outblaze

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[Fsf-friends] Looking for an alternative Knowledge Base Software....
by Rishi Gangoly 13 Dec '03

13 Dec '03

Hi This is a proprietory Knowledge Base tool we use at our office. http://www.softwarepoetry.com/kbnow/ I'm looking for 'Free' (as in Freedom) alternatives. Tried to find something on Freshmeat, but no joy. Anyone knows what something like this would cost to make and where to post such a request? Prefereably it should work on PHP/MySQL. I'd be happy to pay for it, license is GPL and upload it to a site for the rest of the world to enjoy it. Regards Rishi -- Expect the worst, it's the least you can do.

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Need help on how to respond to insecure CEOs
by Rishi Gangoly 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Hi Whenever I meet a director or CEO of a software company and talk to them about FSF and talk them into considering licensing their software with GPL, at first they listed but then the fear factor takes over. The Fear Factor: - What if the competition uses my code and shuts my company down? How does one respond to the fear? Anyone knows of documents or articles on the NET that talks about this worry and how it can be overcome? The reason I'm having difficulty is because I'm not sure about this either. Anyone / Any comments? Regards Rishi -- Cold hands, no gloves.

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Question in Indian parliament
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Below is the text of a question raised in the Indian parliament: Government of India * Ministry of Communications and Information Technology * Departemnt of Information Technology * Rajya Sabha unstarred question No 976 * To be answered on 11-12-2003 Promotion of Free/Libre and Open Source Software Will the Minister of Comunications & Information Technology be pleased to state:- (a) what steps have been taken since the announcement of the Linux India Initiative by Government on the issue of promoting free/libre and open source software within the country; (b) the level of usage of FLOSS products in Government and semi-Government organisations; and (c) whether the research benefits of publicly-funded computing institutions would be made sharable to all, by placing the same under the General Public Licence (GPL) or similar licences that do not restrict sharing of knowledge due to copyright restrictions? ANSWER Minister of State for Communications and Information Technology (SU Thirunavukkarasar) (a): Two more consultative meetings have been held since then for in-depth discussion on projects and policy positions to be taken -- one with the Government and associated agencies and another with NGOs/Civil Society. Various related initiatives, as planned, under Linux India Initiative exercise are also being pursued. (b): They are growing. (c): Research benefits of publicly funded computing institutions are being shared wherever appropriate. For instance, Centre for Development of Advanced Computing (C-DAC) had added components relating to a number of Indian languages for Linux available under General Public Licence (GPL) in September, 2003. Similarly, open office solutions have been provided for Indian languages under GPL developed by C-DAC, CollabCAD software developed by National Informatics Centre (NIC) package has also been put in a limited sharing mode within certain agencies of Government. C-DAC has also put its Indian fonts in public domain. Wherever appropriate, software developed under public funded efforts are being shared under GPL or similar licenses that do not restrict the sharing of knowledge due to copyright restrictions **** Forwarded through: -- Frederick Noronha : http://www.fredericknoronha.net Ph 0091.832.2409490 Freelance Journalist : http://www.bytesforall.org Ph 0091.832.2409783 http://fredericknoronha.blogware.com Cell 0 9822 122436

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RE: [Fsf-friends] Looking for an alternative Knowledge Base Softw are....
by Senthil_OR＠Dell.com 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

> -----Original Message----- > I'm looking for 'Free' (as in Freedom) alternatives. Tried > to find something > on Freshmeat, but no joy. Anyone knows what something like > this would cost to > make and where to post such a request? > > Prefereably it should work on PHP/MySQL. > A Wiki software would serve the Best Knowledge Base tool. All your requirements are present therein. At sf.net you may find a variety of wikis suitable to your needs,taste and dressings ;) Senthil .O. ..O OOO

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CBSE syllabus
by Mahesh T. Pai 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Hi All!! Some of you had put in some efforts to get the CBSE to include free software in their syllabus. Will you please be kind enough to post me (on or off list) details of that?? Even contacts of people who put in the efforts / pointers to list archives will help. I remember that people from the Delhi LUG had done something, But cannot exactly remember it. We need to do something about -- http://www.cbse.nic.in/curric~1/syllabus_sample.htm -- +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ Mahesh T. Pai, LL.M., 'NANDINI', S. R. M. Road, Ernakulam, Cochin-682018, Kerala, India. http://in.geocities.com/paivakil +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

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Need help on how to respond to insecure CEOs
by Ramanraj K 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Rishi Gangoly wrote: >What if the competition uses my code and shuts my company down? >How does one respond to the fear? >The reason I'm having difficulty is because I'm not sure about this either. The concept of sharing is ubiquitous in free software - in the kernel itself through time sharing of processor and other resources, in the distribution through the free licence, and in all of us through the free software philosophy. Sharing is innate in society, and we can easily adapt to this environment. But I do not know if anyone could guarantee that it will not shut down a company that is not resourceful. Most users of free software are intelligent, and they would be able to identify you as the author of your code, and one could reasonably expect them to seek your assistance when appropriate. The legal and medical professions have been living for long, comfortably in such an environment. Many drug companies market paracetamol using different brand names, and it does take one to other areas like brand building and marketing in the ultimate analysis. But really, we are in the transition period from the Industrial Age to the Information Age, that should hopefully lead us to the Space Age [no-war, total peace and prosperity, with ample resources for adventuring into inter-galactical space missions], and there are tons and tons of things waiting to be done. There are enough problems confronting mankind at present. To the best of my knowledge, there is not even a program that prints [to a printer] a html page with css as required by the w3c specification. If a company solves a problem, let us all feel happy about it, even rejoice together, and identify the next problem to tackle with vigour and move on. We could solve the AI problem. We could port all the laws - natural and man made to computers. Only with free software, we can even attempt to work without duplication, and this in itself should take us places. I think the realisation of this strength and truth behind free software is the best antidote for the fear.

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Re: Free Software CD's (Clean Distributions) and learning to reason
by Ramanraj K 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Mahesh T. Pai wrote: > >Users can get source packages in both RPM and Debian's dpkg system. Necessity is the mother of invention, and rpm and dpkg do have their use. Many users cannot compile or never have to bother with sources, and it suits such needs well. But today, with better hardware and software, compilation can be done reliably and quickly. Compiling directly from the sources may be the most preferred method, and if this fails or is not possible, others could be opted. SRPMs give the sources, but then, can we not more directly distribute and use *tar or *bz2 released by major free software project teams?

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Cerberus Helpdesk Public License: Version 1.0
by Rishi Gangoly 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Hi Would this software be considered "non-free"? http://cerberusweb.com/license.php I use this application in our office as a helpdesk / bugtracker in our office. Does anyone know of a 'free' equivalent? I don't mind paying for it, as long as it is free as in freedom. I tried PHP Projekt, but it wasn't as feature rich. Regards Rishi -- Things will be bright in P.M. A cop will shine a light in your face.

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Freedom in Cyberspace
by Ramanraj K 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Living in Cyberspace, I am ashamed to say, I never knew about the Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace by John Perry Barlow, until a friend wrote about it to me today. Please do visit: http://www.eff.org/Publications/John_Perry_Barlow/barlow_0296.declaration http://www.eff.org/~barlow/library.html http://www.eff.org

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OpenSource TelephonyConference (fwd)
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 10 Dec '03

10 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Ann: 1st International Conference "Open Source-Telephony" Dear members of the Linux-User-Group we here with proudly announce the first "Free Software / Open Source-Telephony-Summit" which will be held from January 16 - 20, 2004 in Geilenkirchen, Germany. The summit is hosted by GUUG (German Unix User Group) with the kind support of Open Source Centrum Europa e.V. as well as CSB-SYSTEM AG. After a three-day developer workshop, the project will be presented to user public during a conference day (Jan. 19) and a tutorial day (Jan. 20). For more details please point your browser at: http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/telephony-summit-2004/ We kindly endorse the distribution of this announcement among your members and potential summit visitors. Kind regards, OSCE - Open Source Centrum Europa e.V. European Association for the Advancement of the Use of Open Source Base Technologies Circus 16 D-18581 Putbus auf Rügen Germany Phone: +49 2451 625-444 Fax: +49 2451 625-445 E-Mail: baeumer(a)osce.de

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hi fsf-india
by fiju 10 Dec '03

10 Dec '03

hi fsf-friends, i new to fsf-friends regards sylvester

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U.K. gov't considers Sun in open source software push
by Soundara Rajan N.S 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

U.K. gov't considers Sun in open source software push Government begins trials to evaluate costs and usability of Sun's JDS and JES software By Scarlet Pruitt, IDG News Service December 08, 2003 LONDON -- The U.K. government has signed a five-year agreement with Sun Microsystems Inc. to potentially offer the company's new Java Desktop System (JDS) and Java Enterprise System (JES) software to public sector agencies as part of an overall open source push. The Office of Government Commerce (OGC) purchasing authority said Monday that it will soon begin trials of the software to evaluate costs and usability in the hopes of saving money on hardware and software upgrades. No definitive agreement has yet been made to purchase and deploy the software, however, as the OGC said that it is evaluating all of its options before making a final decision. The government has already been performing similar trials with IBM Corp.'s open source server software, according to OGC spokesman Martin Day, and is particularly interested in an open source alternative for the desktop. Read more at http://newsletter.infoworld.com/t?ctl=4D03D1:1F429AC +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Posted by N.S. Soundara Rajan, Mysore, India Freelance IT journalist Columnist "Deccan Herald" Spoken English Teacher Knowledge networker ...connecting people to people and people to knowledge

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[Withoutfrontiers] UserLinux (fwd)
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 06 Dec '03

06 Dec '03

---------- Forwarded message ---------- http://userlinux.com/white_paper.html "The Problem Enterprise users have embraced GNU/Linux. But the very aspects that make Linux desirable, its low cost, Open Source nature, and the way it gives customers more control over their software, are under attack by Linux vendors bent on increasing shareholder value. Businesses are paying more as Linux distributions demand a per-seat cost and service lock-in for software that they didn't develop and that others support. Many of the early adopters of Linux are small but profitable industries with extremely sophisticated needs, and commercial Linux distributors simply can't afford to pay much attention to them while larger markets are waiting. "........ take a look seppo _______________________________________________ Withoutfrontiers mailing list Withoutfrontiers(a)lists.mahiti.org http://lists.mahiti.org/mailman/listinfo/withoutfrontiers

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Free Computers
by Ramanraj K 06 Dec '03

06 Dec '03

Manilal K M wrote: >Hello friend, >To sit and write and a code that you have given, we need resources. We need a machine, connectivity. >Where it will comes from. Those who do not have a PC and wishes to do such a job , what he will do? >What I meant by the word 'fund' is the things needed for sustainability. >Manilal > > Personally, many years ago, when Sinclair Spectrum ZX81 32K and BBC 128K micros were being introduced, I was curious to know what these could do. The British Council Library at Chennai, had these two, and allowed the members who requested, to use them freely for 20 minutes. I used to queue, just to hit a few commands and see it run Basic, or play a game of Crosswords. I have personally felt the pain of being without a machine, even though it was of no real use for me then. Not having a PC to do work is a serious problem. I guess most developers would always miss a better machine, and only the scale varies. For Charles Babbage, assembling the hardware itself was a major project, that never materialised during his life time. We are fortunate to live in better times, but still many are without access to a PC [please don't confuse this with Plumbing Connection for water, which might also be missing], and those with a PC might be missing a more powerful machine. We could see this as state responsibility. All public libraries could have as many computers as possible connected to the Internet all the time, and those interested could share and use them. Free computers could be provided in kiosks, schools, public libraries, and wherever possible. We just know that India could afford to lose more than Rs.3000 crores per annum for the past 10 years in counterfeit stamp papers and I am sure with these leaks plugged, we can afford to have Free Computers and other benefits. As the Free Software philosophy reaches more quarters, a more equal public sharing of resources looks quite possible.

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Per-seat licences... and the right price (fwd)
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

It's becoming difficult to see the differences between "Linux" megacorps and Microsoft. This reminds you of a story: A man once asks a pretty young lady, "Will you sleep with me for ten dollars?" The lady feels outraged, and shouts back: "What do you take me for? A prostitute?" Not giving up, the man says: "Lady, would you sleep with me for a million dollars?" Suitably influenced, she says that could be considered. Comments the man: "Now that we've established you are indeed a prostitute, the only thing left to be determined is the price." Think this is from something George Bernard Shaw wrote... FN _______________________________________________ Red Hat cuts academic pricing Red Hat has announced a cut-price deal for schools and colleges in the US on its Enterprise Linux distributions. The discount scheme is expected to be extended to academic institutions in other countries shortly. Under the deal, the WS distribution for desktops will cost US$25 per seat per year, while the AS distribution for servers will cost US$50. There will also be a site-wide subscription available, priced at US$2500 per year. http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?bw.120303/233375118&tick… _______________________________________________ Perens announces UserLinux plan Bruce Perens has put his thoughts about a 'free as in beer' enterprise Linux distribution into a draft document. A response to the Linux distributions introducing per seat licencing and annual support contracts, Peren's proposed UserLinux distribution will be Debian based, as you might expect given his early contributions to that project. The proposed distribution will have automatic installation, be endorsed by application vendors and certified by standards organisations such as the LSB, and will be backed by a development and service outfit. http://userlinux.com/white_paper.html _______________________________________________

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Re: [Withoutfrontiers] UserLinux
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, seppo koskela wrote: > http://userlinux.com/white_paper.html > > "The Problem > Enterprise users have embraced GNU/Linux. But the very aspects that > make Linux desirable, its low cost, Open Source nature, and the way it > gives customers more control over their software, are under attack by > Linux vendors bent on increasing shareholder value. Businesses are > paying more as Linux distributions demand a per-seat cost and service > lock-in for software that they didn't develop and that others support. > Many of the early adopters of Linux are small but profitable industries > with extremely sophisticated needs, and commercial Linux distributors > simply can't afford to pay much attention to them while larger markets > are waiting. "........ > > take a look > > seppo > > > _______________________________________________ > Withoutfrontiers mailing list > Withoutfrontiers(a)lists.mahiti.org > http://lists.mahiti.org/mailman/listinfo/withoutfrontiers > -- Frederick Noronha : http://www.fredericknoronha.net : When we speak of free Freelance Journalist : http://www.bytesforall.org : software we refer to Ph 0091.832.2409490 : Cell 0 9822 122436 : freedom, not price.

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by prabhakar kini 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Novel, Suse, Ximian...
by Manilal K M 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

Hello, I think we should think in this direction. But the main problem who will provide the funds ? Manilal ----- Original Message ----- From: Ramanraj K <ramanraj(a)md4.vsnl.net.in> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:11:45 +0530 To: fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in Subject: Re: [Fsf-friends] Novel, Suse, Ximian... > What is needed is a Free Software Distribution/Installation program > under the GPL that allows users/distributors to customize Free Software > Distribution without referring to a particular FOO distribution package. > > SuSE has YaST - Yet another Setup Tool that is released under the SuSE > License. RedHat has Anaconda that is covered under the RedHat Licence. > We do not know what Licence will cover Fedora or the future Novell > distribution. All the other Free Software included in the > distributions, that are ultimately used, are covered by the GPL, FreeBSD > license or other like free licence. > > Recently, Knoppix has made an attractive entry by making installation as > simple as loading a cd. Knoppix is released under the GPL, and based > on the Debian distribution. A straightforward installation program like > Knoppix, under the GPL, giving the user the choice of using any of the > kernels, HURD, Linux or FreeBSD, should help the community to release > more custom distributions, and we should be able to talk more plainly, > generally and directly about applications, without any bother about the > distribution tool/package used. > > > _______________________________________________ > Fsf-friends mailing list > Fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in > http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends -- ______________________________________________ Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox. Powered by Outblaze

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Novel, Suse, Ximian...
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

I wonder what RMS (and others on this list) would make of the recent Novel acquisition of Suse, Ximian and other similar initiatives. Is it good for the community? Is it bad? Or is it a mixed blessing, which we will need some time to evaluate? FN -- Frederick Noronha : http://www.fredericknoronha.net : When we speak of free Freelance Journalist : http://www.bytesforall.org : software we refer to Ph 0091.832.2409490 : Cell 0 9822 122436 : freedom, not price.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Novel, Suse, Ximian...
by Ramanraj K 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

What is needed is a Free Software Distribution/Installation program under the GPL that allows users/distributors to customize Free Software Distribution without referring to a particular FOO distribution package. SuSE has YaST - Yet another Setup Tool that is released under the SuSE License. RedHat has Anaconda that is covered under the RedHat Licence. We do not know what Licence will cover Fedora or the future Novell distribution. All the other Free Software included in the distributions, that are ultimately used, are covered by the GPL, FreeBSD license or other like free licence. Recently, Knoppix has made an attractive entry by making installation as simple as loading a cd. Knoppix is released under the GPL, and based on the Debian distribution. A straightforward installation program like Knoppix, under the GPL, giving the user the choice of using any of the kernels, HURD, Linux or FreeBSD, should help the community to release more custom distributions, and we should be able to talk more plainly, generally and directly about applications, without any bother about the distribution tool/package used.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Novel, Suse, Ximian...
by Manilal K M 04 Dec '03

04 Dec '03

Hello Mr. Noronha, I agree with the last part of your message. It's a mixed blessing. It'll wipe out the concept that Free Software is not needed by the enterprise. But the fear is that will it become proprietory. For this we need sometime to evaluate. We have to consider the RedHat's issue in this context Manilal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <fred(a)bytesforall.org> Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:22:15 +0530 (IST) To: Richard Stallman <rms(a)gnu.org> Subject: [Fsf-friends] Novel, Suse, Ximian... > I wonder what RMS (and others on this list) would make of the recent Novel > acquisition of Suse, Ximian and other similar initiatives. Is it good for > the community? Is it bad? Or is it a mixed blessing, which we will need > some time to evaluate? FN > -- > Frederick Noronha : http://www.fredericknoronha.net : When we speak of free > Freelance Journalist : http://www.bytesforall.org : software we refer to > Ph 0091.832.2409490 : Cell 0 9822 122436 : freedom, not price. > > _______________________________________________ > Fsf-friends mailing list > Fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in > http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends -- ______________________________________________ Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox. Powered by Outblaze

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