In our discussion about the subject, we were pointing out the current state of affairs. Most of the actions proposed involved contacting the relevant authorities and pointing out the facts to them. While this is necessary, it is nowhere near sufficient. (Please don't misunderstand me, I do believe that it involves a lot of hard work, and it really is necessary). Let us assume that these efforts become successful. MS could still give away their software to students, or show off some eye candy (ooh, avalon is soo shiny). Suddenly, FS becomes that thing which you are forced to use, not something you choose to use. It is very easy to manipulate people's opinion against it, in this condition. This is under a very optimistic assumption.
We could use the {horse, cart} analogy here?? Shouldn't we try to get the students onboard first? Is it that difficult to get students' attention? Maybe we could sponsor an FS based event in college Tech. meets. Students will be looking around for interesting things, and they can find stuff about FS for themselves.
Are people neglecting the "attention first, ideology later" option because they think it is on the wrong side of "ends / means" argument? Is it considered too *ahem* inappropriate to be discussed on this list?
Bala.
"balachandran c" balachandran_c@rediffmail.com writes:
We could use the {horse, cart} analogy here?? Shouldn't we try to get the students onboard first? Is it that difficult to get students' attention? Maybe we could sponsor an FS based event in college Tech. meets. Students will be looking around for interesting things, and they can find stuff about FS for themselves.
No this is _not_ difficult and is being done in many places. May be not as a `FSF India sponsored/backed` event, but as a self interest activity. Voluteers do conduct sessions and colleges and schools.
The reason why the FS community is bothered about the activities of MS in schools and colleges is that they never talk the truth. They never go and tell, what parts of their technology is patented before teaching them to the students. They would call their `shared source license` as a `open source license`. They practice cheap business tricks with the student community. The student community (especially in india) is very much vulnerable to this because of the lack of availability of resources., and the lack of awareness.
A number of colleges in TamilNadu are so bent on just the placement count. They'd do anything for the company which promises to recruit half of their students. Infection of engineering syllabus happens in almost every autonomous college.
Are people neglecting the "attention first, ideology later" option because they think it is on the wrong side of "ends / means" argument? Is it considered too *ahem* inappropriate to be discussed on this list?
Hmm., the problem with this is that., people `create the attention` but fail to do the phase two., the ideology. They are happy with the results of phase 1 and hence the result wears off, or ends up as not useful to the community. A person who uses `linux` all day and does not want to acknowledge the `gnu` in it, is just no different from any other windows user.
Hmm., the problem with this is that., people `create the attention` but fail to do the phase two., the ideology. They are happy with the results of phase 1 and hence the result wears off, or ends up as not useful to the community. A person who uses `linux` all day and does not want to acknowledge the `gnu` in it, is just no different from any other windows user.
It is happening in our campus and I'm trying to change it with my friends Dilip and Amal to educate them of the Gnu part. All computer Science students here know 'linux' and they use it for project, programming ... and they never know the underlying philosophy, nor they support it. What is the use if we see all the users of The world use 'linux' and no one cares about the gnu part and they go on installing proprietay softwares on 'linux' , like skype, acrobat reader, oracle... and so one ?
What do the community gain from it ? I firmly believe it is important to talk about the Freedom. We are not advertising here for Linus Torvalds who only want to see the maximum number of users use his software (well, I appreciate his effort and the importance, but don't neglect the real facts).
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"Joe" == Joe Steeve joe_steeve@gmx.net writes:
Joe> [snip]
Joe> A number of colleges in TamilNadu are so bent on just the Joe> placement count. They'd do anything for the company which Joe> promises to recruit half of their students. Infection of Joe> engineering syllabus happens in almost every autonomous Joe> college.
Well, food, shelter and clothes do come before abstract ideas like freedom for most people in this country. I may intellectually damn a college catering to the job market, but deep down I can't really take exception to its strategy.
Regards,
- -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:35:06 +0530, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
Well, food, shelter and clothes do come before abstract ideas like freedom for most people in this country. I may intellectually damn a college catering to the job market, but deep down I can't really take exception to its strategy.
Are you saying we would still be happy under colonial rule, if somehow we had food, shelter and clothes? No offense, but your response unfortunately seems to read more like a stereo-typical comment one would find in Slashdot conversations.
Don't get me wrong. I do think Joe's original comment about campus placement offices is very true. However, the answer does not have to be one of submission, but rather that of increasing awareness. Numerous job opportunities abound for students well versed in free software, and colleges/universities stand to benefit on a lot of other fronts as well from students using/contributing to free software. Maybe a local LUG representative can give a seminar to nearby colleges?
Regards, Ragavan
Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org writes:
Joe> A number of colleges in TamilNadu are so bent on just Joe> the placement count. They'd do anything for the company Joe> which promises to recruit half of their Joe> students. Infection of engineering syllabus happens in Joe> almost every autonomous college.Well, food, shelter and clothes do come before abstract ideas like freedom for most people in this country. I may intellectually damn a college catering to the job market, but deep down I can't really take exception to its strategy.
Well, placements should not be the only concern of colleges/universities. They should think of research. By polluting the syllabus, they are hindering the growth of possibly research minded students. And, without enough research in the Universities., I dont know where science would head to.
,----[ Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org ] | Joe> A number of colleges in TamilNadu are so bent on just | Joe> the placement count. They'd do anything for the company | Joe> which promises to recruit half of their | Joe> students. Infection of engineering syllabus happens in | Joe> almost every autonomous college. | | Well, food, shelter and clothes do come before abstract ideas | like freedom for most people in this country. I may | intellectually damn a college catering to the job market, but | deep down I can't really take exception to its strategy. `----
It is sad but true. Not valuing the freedom is a big mistake. Even slaves got food, clothing and shelter except freedom.
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Anand Babu -
balachandran c -
Joe Steeve -
Praveen A -
Ragavan Srinivasan -
Raj Mathur