I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "women and free software in India"
As I could 'perceive' being in some events in India, the situation is a little bit terrible.
Women absolutely separated not to say 'segregated'
This gave me the impression that not being talking to a group of activists for freedom since women was outside.
Was that just my perception and impression?
regards juan
Hi, Well, the fact is that while there are women in ICT industry but very few are "hackers " in the field of free software and even with regards the software industry, the field to which they tend to limit themselves is a very narrow one.
Doing a job in a typically big company like infi or TCS, learning and going into the trend of "happening technology " and doing some kind of a sterio type of job.
There might be many reasons but I too personally observed in most of the workshops I conduct in colleges etc that the ratio of women to men attending the workshop is very very bad to say the least.
When I talk with all my female friends and students in this context (and I talk often ), I get reasons like "we never knew we could do this stuff " or "there are many social factors because of which we don't tend to go out of houses far away to work no matter how great the project is ".
So this is the kind of situation, However we can let some knowledgable female take a lead and being motivated herself can motivate others.
happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 17:17 +0100, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez wrote:
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "women and free software in India"
As I could 'perceive' being in some events in India, the situation is a little bit terrible.
Women absolutely separated not to say 'segregated'
This gave me the impression that not being talking to a group of activists for freedom since women was outside.
Was that just my perception and impression?
regards juan
Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
On 2/22/09, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez jucar@hipatia.net wrote:
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "women and free software in India"
As I could 'perceive' being in some events in India, the situation is a little bit terrible.
Which are these events you have mentioned.
Women absolutely separated not to say 'segregated'
This gave me the impression that not being talking to a group of activists for freedom since women was outside.
When one abstracts the concept of freedom to "Free Software" alone, one will be blind to the issue that you have raised and to a lot of other burning issues in this Country.
Was that just my perception and impression?
Please research on the archives of this mailing list.
You must be knowing that there are bigot soldiers on the march here to enforce an obsolete ideology. Welcome to my country sir.
IMHO "Women and free software" narrows down this issues to a level where things might blur and one might come to the wrong conclusions.
You can ask more direct questions, like how many of you gentlemen here make their own food(atleast help women in the kitchen), how many wash their own clothes, how many here pay the maid sevant a decent salary, how many have taken dowry to marry, how many have seen women as equals.. and so on and so forth.
regards juan
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On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 17:41 +0530, Krishnakant wrote:
There might be many reasons but I too personally observed in most of the workshops I conduct in colleges etc that the ratio of women to men attending the workshop is very very bad to say the least.
Interestingly, girls are in the majority among students, and women are in majority among teachers. It is for, so to say, "extra curricular" activities that females are absent. And this must be due to social issues -- male dominance. And the domestic responsibilities that they have to carry on their heads. If there are females in this list, it would be nice if they respond.
This problem cannot be tackled by Free Software. It exists, as I understand, almost everywhere, including the developed world. This has to be tackled from a different angle.
Best Sasi
One question
is there some woman in this list?
regards juan
On Sunday 22 February 2009, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez wrote:
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "women and free software in India"
As I could 'perceive' being in some events in India, the situation is a little bit terrible.
Women absolutely separated not to say 'segregated'
This gave me the impression that not being talking to a group of activists for freedom since women was outside.
Was that just my perception and impression?
regards juan
hello, Yes there are a lot of women teachers and as I said earlier the girls tend to go for some typicle circle of job options.
Today free and open source culture has created new avanues of working and the way in which we work also differs with reference to such organisations. What I found is that due to obvious social conditions, this is the place where not many girls are seen.
Yes, free software or software persay can't be the solution, but having said that it will be nice to see more and more women coming to this culture.
happy hacking. Krishnakant. On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 20:49 +0530, V. Sasi Kumar wrote:
On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 17:41 +0530, Krishnakant wrote:
There might be many reasons but I too personally observed in most of the workshops I conduct in colleges etc that the ratio of women to men attending the workshop is very very bad to say the least.
Interestingly, girls are in the majority among students, and women are in majority among teachers. It is for, so to say, "extra curricular" activities that females are absent. And this must be due to social issues -- male dominance. And the domestic responsibilities that they have to carry on their heads. If there are females in this list, it would be nice if they respond.
This problem cannot be tackled by Free Software. It exists, as I understand, almost everywhere, including the developed world. This has to be tackled from a different angle.
Best Sasi
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez < jucar@hipatia.net> wrote:
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "women and free software in India"
As I could 'perceive' being in some events in India, the situation is a little bit terrible.
Women absolutely separated not to say 'segregated'
This gave me the impression that not being talking to a group of activists for freedom since women was outside.
Was that just my perception and impression?
Others perceptions could be like I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "old women and free software in India"
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "young women and free software in India"
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "xyz women and free software in India"
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "old men and free software in India"
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "young kids and free software in India"
I feel that it is nothing wrong in thinking about what women are thinking about a particular topic provided there is enough time to spend on that
Rather than segregating or just trying to seperate, it would be good to think and work towards involving more and more people invoved in taking forward Free Software Movement irrespective of gender or any other categorization.
regards juan
--
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On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez jucar@hipatia.net wrote:
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "women and free software in India"
As I could 'perceive' being in some events in India, the situation is a little bit terrible.
Women absolutely separated not to say 'segregated'
This is very true. This is very common in India especially in Kerala's "Progressive" society. ( I think you were in kerala most of the time) . Free software communities may inherit this problem because they are also part of the same patriarchal mail dominant society.
This gave me the impression that not being talking to a group of activists for freedom since women was outside.
Was that just my perception and impression?
Free Software Communities will not change everything suddenly top down. Also the celebrity called "hacker" in Free Software model is a Male . I dont think Free Software Philosophy is not a tool for addressing/ bridging gender inequality in society. It needs more women , who can understand womens issues need to come to free software front and need to address the issues that preventing their involvement. Also there are a lot of other factors need to be addressed. So lets finish is my point. Free Software is not that much radical to change all existing social structures.. It will change some. But not all.. For eg: It cant address oppressions of Caste , class & gender.
Freedom is not coming as a package. we need separate fights on each domains to claim it
Deepa Paul
regards juan
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On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 6:23 PM, justin joseph justinjoseph007@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/22/09, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez jucar@hipatia.net wrote:
I'm very interested to understand more on the topic "women and free software in India"
As I could 'perceive' being in some events in India, the situation is a little bit terrible.
Which are these events you have mentioned.
extra terrestrial interests :-)
Women absolutely separated not to say 'segregated'
This gave me the impression that not being talking to a group of activists for freedom since women was outside.
When one abstracts the concept of freedom to "Free Software" alone, one will be blind to the issue that you have raised and to a lot of other burning issues in this Country.
The concept of Freedom is not a copyrighted to free software alone. It have various dimensions and various movements used to address this issue in there own fields. I agree with you that a lot of burning issues in this country that need to be addressed separately. But spare this list for those discussions.
Was that just my perception and impression?
Please research on the archives of this mailing list.
You must be knowing that there are bigot soldiers on the march here to enforce an obsolete ideology. Welcome to my country sir.
IMHO "Women and free software" narrows down this issues to a level where things might blur and one might come to the wrong conclusions.
Oh You are cared about Conclusion and analysed it as wrong .. great!!
You can ask more direct questions, like how many of you gentlemen here make their own food(atleast help women in the kitchen), how many wash their own clothes, how many here pay the maid sevant a decent salary, how many have taken dowry to marry, how many have seen women as equals.. and so on and so forth.
Please do it in some other list. leave us from spamming And I think this is not a men's only list to ask such questions
Deepa Paul
regards juan
--
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On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 8:49 PM, V. Sasi Kumar sasi.fsf@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 17:41 +0530, Krishnakant wrote:
There might be many reasons but I too personally observed in most of the workshops I conduct in colleges etc that the ratio of women to men attending the workshop is very very bad to say the least.
Interestingly, girls are in the majority among students, and women are in majority among teachers. It is for, so to say, "extra curricular" activities that females are absent. And this must be due to social issues -- male dominance.
I will correct the term "absent" to subverted. Also generalising will not solve a problem. That needs active involvement from women
And the domestic responsibilities that they have to carry on their heads. If there are females in this list, it would be nice if they respond.
It is sad that you are not aware about female presence in this list
This problem cannot be tackled by Free Software. It exists, as I understand, almost everywhere, including the developed world. This has to be tackled from a different angle.
Best Sasi
-- V. Sasi Kumar Free Software Foundation of India http://swatantryam.blogspot.com
Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
On Sun, 2009-02-22 at 23:13 +0530, Krishnakant wrote:
hello, Yes there are a lot of women teachers and as I said earlier the girls tend to go for some typicle circle of job options.
Krishnakant, we have men working in various kinds of jobs involved in many different kinds of other activities. The men and boys in this list itself must be working in various different kinds of jobs. Some of them may be employed in the kinds of jobs that you refer to. You see the men here, but not as many women. I don't know whether software is not the kind of work that women do not really enjoy, in general. Assuming that there is no such gender difference, we should be seeing so many more women here, since the sex ratio in the general population is pretty close to 1:1. And, in Kerala, females are more. Interestingly, to subscribe to a mailing list and to send responses occasionally, one doesn't even have to leave one's home. We need to understand why, then, we have very few females here. Is it because they tend to be overloaded with their jobs plus their domestic responsibilities? This could be a reason. Though gender equality is not one of the objectives of this list, I think it is an issue in all spheres of human activity, and, therefore, should be discussed everywhere. It is important that we do not, by any means, keep away one half of the population.
Today free and open source culture has created new avanues of working and the way in which we work also differs with reference to such organisations. What I found is that due to obvious social conditions, this is the place where not many girls are seen.
My idea is to understand why. If it is that women do not find this activity very interesting, and, therefore, don't want to get involved, it is fine with me. But if there is something that keeps them away, especially something that we do or don't do, then we should look into it and take corrective measures. Is there something we can do to get more girls/women to join this list and come for our meetings? Of course, the timing of our meetings and the kind of venues we fix, are probably two examples of points that we should take care of to make it convenient for our female friends. It is true that there are social pressures that inhibit their participation, but there may be little we can do about it.
Best
On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 00:57 +0530, Deepa Paul |ദീപാ പോള് wrote:
I will correct the term "absent" to subverted. Also generalising will not solve a problem. That needs active involvement from women
I deliberately used the term "absent" because it is value neutral. I did not want to be judgemental without understanding it. Yes, we cannot generalise. But when we see that women are a majority in many careers, including teaching, but see less of them in non-career activities, we may tend to suspect some kind of social hurdle. But I fully agree with you that women have to take an active role in breaking out (if that is what you meant). And the men who sympathise with the cause also need to help.
And the domestic responsibilities that they have to carry on their heads. If there are females in this list, it would be nice if they respond.
It is sad that you are not aware about female presence in this list
Sorry that I did not remember your name, though you have sent several mails. It was not written after a careful examination, but I just wrote on the spur of the moment. And I could not recollect the names of any females who were members here. I am sorry. But I still cannot recollect another name.
Incidentally, recently there was a private discussion about a conference of women FOSS enthusiasts. It originated from FSUG, Meerut, if I remember right. What do the females here think about it? The idea is, of course, not to exclude men, but for women to take the lead roles. You may allow a few men also to participate. What say?
Best
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Deepa Paul |ദീപാ പോള് -
Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez -
justin joseph -
Krishnakant -
renuka prasad -
V. Sasi Kumar