I have just read and signed the online petition:
"Sign an Open Letter to the CJI in Support of Prashant Bhushan"
hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition service, at:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/CJI/
I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might agree, too. Please take a look, and consider signing yourself.
Best Sasi
On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, V. Sasi Kumar wrote:
I have just read and signed the online petition:
"Sign an Open Letter to the CJI in Support of Prashant Bhushan"
*Sigh* I'm sure there must be some connection between this and free software in India, but I'm stupid and fail to see it. Would someone be kind enough to enlighten me?
-- Raj
On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 09:58 +0530, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:
*Sigh* I'm sure there must be some connection between this and free software in India, but I'm stupid and fail to see it. Would someone be kind enough to enlighten me?
As I understand it, Free Software is about freedom. If we don't have the freedom to say what we would like to, and point out cases of corruption, then there is no meaning in talking about the freedom of software. I think our basic freedoms are much more fundamental than the freedom of software. And we need all possible people to fight to protect them. So we make use of all available fora to request people to contribute their mite. Those who are willing to can contribute to the efforts. Those who don't want to, for whatever reason, ignore it.
Best Sasi
On 28 September 2010 01:43, V. Sasi Kumar sasi.fsf@gmail.com wrote:
As I understand it, Free Software is about freedom. If we don't have the freedom to say what we would like to, and point out cases of corruption, then there is no meaning in talking about the freedom of software. I
"...Independent documentary filmmakers, journalists, writers and other professionals have struggled to create spaces for images, words and ideas that find little support with governments or market-driven corporations...."
From a write-up where Prashant Bhushan had been a speaker in 2006 on "Free
Speech and Fearless Listening : The Encounter with Censorship in South Asia".
http://waagsarai.waag.org/?p=10 -------------
On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, V. Sasi Kumar wrote:
On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 09:58 +0530, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:
*Sigh* I'm sure there must be some connection between this and free software in India, but I'm stupid and fail to see it. Would someone be kind enough to enlighten me?
As I understand it, Free Software is about freedom. If we don't have the freedom to say what we would like to, and point out cases of corruption, then there is no meaning in talking about the freedom of software. I think our basic freedoms are much more fundamental than the freedom of software. And we need all possible people to fight to protect them. So we make use of all available fora to request people to contribute their mite. Those who are willing to can contribute to the efforts. Those who don't want to, for whatever reason, ignore it.
Let me explain it in words of two syllables:
There is a concept called "being on topic"; there is also a concept called "topic for a forum". This forum is about free software and directly related issues in India. Being on topic in this forum implies that posts are to be somehow related to software freedom in India.
Corruption of the judiciary, the failure of the CWG, the difference between the Congress and the BJP, the bust measurements of Bollywood actresses -- all these, however interesting to some participants, are NOT related to software freedom in India.
If you claim that they are, then I shall henceforth write about whatever comes into my mind and use this list as a personal blog until the admins decide to either (a) ban me from the list, or (b) take a clear stance on on-topic and off-topic postings.
I joined this list to discuss software freedom in India and directly related issues. Now it seems to be a public forum for airing pet peeves and drumming up support for causes and topics completely unrelated to software, software freedom, personal privacy or technology in India. Fair enough, I have pet peeves and causes that need support too, and since this is the place to bring them up, I shall do so without any fear from now on.
End of this discussion from my side.
-- Raj
If we have to discuss the causes which made imperative to have a movement for Free Software, what topics one should chose?
We are not Robnison Crusoe.
2010/9/28 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) raju@linux-delhi.org
On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, V. Sasi Kumar wrote:
On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 09:58 +0530, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:
*Sigh* I'm sure there must be some connection between this and free software in India, but I'm stupid and fail to see it. Would someone be kind enough to enlighten me?
As I understand it, Free Software is about freedom. If we don't have the freedom to say what we would like to, and point out cases of corruption, then there is no meaning in talking about the freedom of software. I think our basic freedoms are much more fundamental than the freedom of software. And we need all possible people to fight to protect them. So we make use of all available fora to request people to contribute their mite. Those who are willing to can contribute to the efforts. Those who don't want to, for whatever reason, ignore it.
Let me explain it in words of two syllables:
There is a concept called "being on topic"; there is also a concept called "topic for a forum". This forum is about free software and directly related issues in India. Being on topic in this forum implies that posts are to be somehow related to software freedom in India.
Corruption of the judiciary, the failure of the CWG, the difference between the Congress and the BJP, the bust measurements of Bollywood actresses -- all these, however interesting to some participants, are NOT related to software freedom in India.
If you claim that they are, then I shall henceforth write about whatever comes into my mind and use this list as a personal blog until the admins decide to either (a) ban me from the list, or (b) take a clear stance on on-topic and off-topic postings.
I joined this list to discuss software freedom in India and directly related issues. Now it seems to be a public forum for airing pet peeves and drumming up support for causes and topics completely unrelated to software, software freedom, personal privacy or technology in India. Fair enough, I have pet peeves and causes that need support too, and since this is the place to bring them up, I shall do so without any fear from now on.
End of this discussion from my side.
-- Raj
Raj Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves _______________________________________________ Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
On Tuesday 28 September 2010, jimmy davis wrote: |If we have to discuss the causes which made imperative to have a movement |for Free Software, what topics one should chose? | |We are not Robnison Crusoe. |
then probably you are already off topic :) lets ban you :)
best
juan
|2010/9/28 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) raju@linux-delhi.org | |> On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, V. Sasi Kumar wrote: |> > On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 09:58 +0530, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote: |> > > *Sigh* I'm sure there must be some connection between this and free |> > > software in India, but I'm stupid and fail to see it. Would |> > > someone be kind enough to enlighten me? |> > |> > As I understand it, Free Software is about freedom. If we don't have |> > the freedom to say what we would like to, and point out cases of |> > corruption, then there is no meaning in talking about the freedom of |> > software. I think our basic freedoms are much more fundamental than |> > the freedom of software. And we need all possible people to fight to |> > protect them. So we make use of all available fora to request people |> > to contribute their mite. Those who are willing to can contribute to |> > the efforts. Those who don't want to, for whatever reason, ignore |> > it. |> |> Let me explain it in words of two syllables: |> |> There is a concept called "being on topic"; there is also a concept |> called "topic for a forum". This forum is about free software and |> directly related issues in India. Being on topic in this forum implies |> that posts are to be somehow related to software freedom in India. |> |> Corruption of the judiciary, the failure of the CWG, the difference |> between the Congress and the BJP, the bust measurements of Bollywood |> actresses -- all these, however interesting to some participants, are |> NOT related to software freedom in India. |> |> If you claim that they are, then I shall henceforth write about |> whatever comes into my mind and use this list as a personal blog until |> the admins decide to either (a) ban me from the list, or (b) take a |> clear stance on on-topic and off-topic postings. |> |> I joined this list to discuss software freedom in India and directly |> related issues. Now it seems to be a public forum for airing pet |> peeves and drumming up support for causes and topics completely |> unrelated to software, software freedom, personal privacy or technology |> in India. Fair enough, I have pet peeves and causes that need support |> too, and since this is the place to bring them up, I shall do so |> without any fear from now on. |> |> End of this discussion from my side. |>
|> -- Raj |> -- |> Raj Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ |> GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F |> PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves |> _______________________________________________ |> Fsf-friends mailing list |> Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in |> http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, jimmy davis wrote:
If we have to discuss the causes which made imperative to have a movement for Free Software, what topics one should chose?
Start another mailing list, or open up the ambit of this one so that it includes anything that anyone considers related to freedom in general and not software freedom specifically (in which case I'll happily unsubscribe).
We are not Robnison Crusoe.
Right, and when you go to your dentist with a toothache and he discusses cricket scores with you for half an hour before having a look at your mouth, you can use that logic to lessen the pain.
-- Raj
Software Freedom comes in a box with particular dimensions, which make it so specific and departed from general Freedom?
2010/9/28 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) raju@linux-delhi.org
On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, jimmy davis wrote:
If we have to discuss the causes which made imperative to have a movement for Free Software, what topics one should chose?
Start another mailing list, or open up the ambit of this one so that it includes anything that anyone considers related to freedom in general and not software freedom specifically (in which case I'll happily unsubscribe).
We are not Robnison Crusoe.
Right, and when you go to your dentist with a toothache and he discusses cricket scores with you for half an hour before having a look at your mouth, you can use that logic to lessen the pain.
-- Raj
Raj Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves
On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 14:43 +0530, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote:
We are not Robnison Crusoe.
Right, and when you go to your dentist with a toothache and he discusses cricket scores with you for half an hour before having a look at your mouth, you can use that logic to lessen the pain.
I don't think these are very analogous. I think it wouldn't be nice to use irrelevant analogies just to score a point.
Regards Sasi
On Tuesday 28 September 2010, V. Sasi Kumar wrote: |On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 14:43 +0530, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote: |> > We are not Robnison Crusoe. |> |> Right, and when you go to your dentist with a toothache and he |> discusses cricket scores with you for half an hour before having a look |> at your mouth, you can use that logic to lessen the pain. | |I don't think these are very analogous. I think it wouldn't be nice to |use irrelevant analogies just to score a point. | |Regards |Sasi
I think to look the introduction of P. Achuthan (at conference in Kozhikode) can give some clarity
http://streaming.hipatia.net:8000/video/confedu/achuthan.ogv
(I´m finishing encoding the rms one, that will be at the same wiki later today)
best juan
On Tuesday 28 September 2010, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote: |On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, V. Sasi Kumar wrote: |> On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 09:58 +0530, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote: |> > *Sigh* I'm sure there must be some connection between this and free |> > software in India, but I'm stupid and fail to see it. Would |> > someone be kind enough to enlighten me? |> |> As I understand it, Free Software is about freedom. If we don't have |> the freedom to say what we would like to, and point out cases of |> corruption, then there is no meaning in talking about the freedom of |> software. I think our basic freedoms are much more fundamental than |> the freedom of software. And we need all possible people to fight to |> protect them. So we make use of all available fora to request people |> to contribute their mite. Those who are willing to can contribute to |> the efforts. Those who don't want to, for whatever reason, ignore |> it. | |Let me explain it in words of two syllables: | |There is a concept called "being on topic"; there is also a concept |called "topic for a forum". This forum is about free software and |directly related issues in India. Being on topic in this forum implies |that posts are to be somehow related to software freedom in India. | |Corruption of the judiciary, the failure of the CWG, the difference |between the Congress and the BJP, the bust measurements of Bollywood |actresses -- all these, however interesting to some participants, are |NOT related to software freedom in India. | |If you claim that they are, then I shall henceforth write about whatever |comes into my mind and use this list as a personal blog until the admins |decide to either (a) ban me from the list, or (b) take a clear stance on |on-topic and off-topic postings. |
thinking like this you are not a freedom fighter. waiting for admins to ban you? what is this ? who can ban who? is this freedom ? what are freedom topics ? is freedom in software a different issue ?
best
try to be free :)
juan
[ot] linux-dheli ? do you have a group for the kernel stuff or is a gnu-linux group?
|I joined this list to discuss software freedom in India and directly |related issues. Now it seems to be a public forum for airing pet peeves |and drumming up support for causes and topics completely unrelated to |software, software freedom, personal privacy or technology in India. |Fair enough, I have pet peeves and causes that need support too, and |since this is the place to bring them up, I shall do so without any fear |from now on. | |End of this discussion from my side. | |-- Raj
I certainly think the post would need a [OT] tag.
Software freedom is a freedom sufficiently well defined and has clear boundaries.
-- GN
On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 18:25 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote:
I certainly think the post would need a [OT] tag.
Yes, I admitted that probably I should have put an [OT] tag. That was actually an oversight. Sorry for that. I was sending it to several lists where I didn't have to say [OT].
Software freedom is a freedom sufficiently well defined and has clear boundaries.
Agreed. But when it is an appeal for something that concerns every citizen of the country, how can such things be banned from a list? Moreover, it was not even an attempt to discuss anything. It was just a call to sign a petition. Let me also ask, If someone wants blood of a rare group, can I post it here (marked OT, of course)? Or is such things also to be put only in a list for that purpose?
Best Sasi
On Tuesday 28 September 2010, V. Sasi Kumar wrote: |On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 18:25 +0530, Nagarjuna G wrote: |> I certainly think the post would need a [OT] tag. | |Yes, I admitted that probably I should have put an [OT] tag. That was |actually an oversight. Sorry for that. I was sending it to several lists |where I didn't have to say [OT]. | |> Software freedom is a freedom sufficiently well defined and has clear |> boundaries. | |Agreed. But when it is an appeal for something that concerns every |citizen of the country, how can such things be banned from a list? |Moreover, it was not even an attempt to discuss anything. It was just a |call to sign a petition. Let me also ask, If someone wants blood of a |rare group, can I post it here (marked OT, of course)? Or is such things |also to be put only in a list for that purpose? | |Best |Sasi
.
probably he wants a list where you can only post:
freedom 0) freedom to use in bla bla freedom 1) zzzzzz freedom 2) xxxxx freedom 3) xxxxxxxxxccvcv
we need this kind of lists exactly to free people like this. it is good to start discussions about what means freedom
we are in the good way
best
juan
On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez wrote:
we need this kind of lists exactly to free people like this. it is good to start discussions about what means freedom
Thank you for being so concerned about the well-being of your fellow humans and so ready to lift them out of their ignorance. If you removed that offensive patronising tone from your messages it would be even better.
In the meantime, I still await the list admins' decision -- what is the scope of discussion on this list? If it includes random spamming about "related subjects that concern every citizen" then include me out. There are enough lists run by NGOs, I'll join one of those when I want to be notified about each and every civil society issue in this country.
-- Raj
This is not about the petition, but I'm wondering if there is a link between Free Software and EVMs.
If I remember right, the original debate was if EVMs could be demonstrated to be tamper-proof.
EVMs are some kind of computers, and consist of hardware and software (in this case, firmware). The question of establishing if an EVM is tamper-proof *can* be resolved if the community has access to the source code of the firmware. After all, if the community has sufficient skills to contribute to the Linux kernel, we surely have the competencies to audit/inspect the source code of the EVM.
As a community, shouldn't we be therefore calling for public scrutiny of the source code of the EVM?
best
satish
2010/9/28 Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) raju@linux-delhi.org:
On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez wrote:
we need this kind of lists exactly to free people like this. it is good to start discussions about what means freedom
Thank you for being so concerned about the well-being of your fellow humans and so ready to lift them out of their ignorance. If you removed that offensive patronising tone from your messages it would be even better.
In the meantime, I still await the list admins' decision -- what is the scope of discussion on this list? If it includes random spamming about "related subjects that concern every citizen" then include me out. There are enough lists run by NGOs, I'll join one of those when I want to be notified about each and every civil society issue in this country.
-- Raj
Raj Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves _______________________________________________ Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
On Tuesday 28 September 2010, Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) wrote: |On Tuesday 28 Sep 2010, Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez wrote: |> we need this kind of lists exactly to free people like this. |> it is good to start discussions about what means freedom | |Thank you for being so concerned about the well-being of your fellow |humans and so ready to lift them out of their ignorance. If you removed |that offensive patronising tone from your messages it would be even |better. |
then you agree, thanks :) (we are doing too much offtopics - now an offtopic on offtopics)
best
juan
|In the meantime, I still await the list admins' decision -- what is the |scope of discussion on this list? If it includes random spamming about |"related subjects that concern every citizen" then include me out. |There are enough lists run by NGOs, I'll join one of those when I want |to be notified about each and every civil society issue in this country. | |-- Raj
2010/9/28 V. Sasi Kumar sasi.fsf@gmail.com:
As I understand it, Free Software is about freedom. If we don't have the freedom to say what we would like to, and point out cases of corruption, then there is no meaning in talking about the freedom of software. I think our basic freedoms are much more fundamental than the freedom of software. And we need all possible people to fight to protect them. So we make use of all available fora to request people to contribute their mite. Those who are willing to can contribute to the efforts. Those who don't want to, for whatever reason, ignore it.
At the least an [off topic]/[OT] tag should be there when discussing topics outside of the lists mandate. On the other hand if every one is happy to open up the list for discussing anything that "friends of fsf india" would like to discuss, I would also like to start discussing more about the faults of of educations system, lack of accountability in judiciary, lack of honesty in scientific institutions in our country ... Should I start new threads on these topics?
-
ck raju -
jimmy davis -
Juan Carlos Gentile Fagundez -
Nagarjuna G -
Praveen A -
Raj Mathur (राज माथुर) -
Satish Babu -
V. Sasi Kumar