Nagarjuna G. wrote:
..... Raj Mathur has been asking for publication of accounts etc. If we could dispose such requests first, then we should be able to ask others to do the same, with more conviction. Having access to information would help us to act upon it in a better way.
Arun is arranging to get the stuff up soon.
Thanks. I am sure that will help.
FSF India could play a major role in channelising dev and advocacy efforts. Drafting petitions and memorandums to have our requests processed, would be the main channel of making suitable requests.
Yesterday, Raman.P., of ILUGC, suggested that free software user groups in India join together to form an association. While software cos. have NASSCOM, software user groups have no corresponding association that could effectively air their views and needs. In the free software community, the line between developers and users is virtually non-existent, and FSF India could lead in co-ordinating all the free software user groups, including LUGs that are willing to join. Most user groups meet once a month, and discuss over mailing lists also, and hence important issues could be discussed at all LUGS and based on consensus, better representations could be sent to authorities.
We would want someone take it up as a clear responsibility and do it, be in touch with all the FSUGS/GLUGS and LUGS and other free software groups in the country. We do have now more serious people and are willing to work. It is good if each person takes one responsibility and coordinates on behalf of FSF India.
Many lug and user group representatives are members of this list, and if a consensus does evolve, we may take further steps.
Thanks, Ramanraj.
Ramanraj K said on Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 08:11:40AM +0530,:
in India join together to form an association. While software cos. have NASSCOM, software user groups have no corresponding association that
NASSCOM is much more than a mere industry body. It is also a copyright society, recognised by the Govt. under the Copyright Act. It means that NASSCOM can enforce copyrights of its members, and take money from its victims, which of course, like experiences of all copyright societies all over the world, much less than expenses of copyright enforcement.
It of course, does so many other things than conduct surveys.
The free software community cannot, of course, rely on NASSCOM to enforce our copyrights. Hence, need for _assigning_ copyrights to bodies like FSF.
--- "Mahesh T. Pai" paivakil@vsnl.net wrote:
Ramanraj K said on Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 08:11:40AM +0530,:
in India join together to form an
association. While software
cos. have NASSCOM, software user groups have
no corresponding
association that
NASSCOM is much more than a mere industry body. It is also a copyright society, recognised by the Govt. under the Copyright Act. It means that NASSCOM can enforce copyrights of its members, and take money from its victims, which of course, like experiences of all copyright societies all over the world, much less than expenses of copyright enforcement.
It of course, does so many other things than conduct surveys.
The free software community cannot, of course, rely on NASSCOM to enforce our copyrights. Hence, need for _assigning_ copyrights to bodies like FSF.
Hello Ramanraj and Pai,
As pointed out by Pai, NASSCOM has a charter to be watchdog for legal use of software, it an assocation that _enforceses_.An organisation that works for Free Software should have its goal to educate not enforce.
Comments please ?
Cheers
--arky
===== ____________________________________ /\ \ _| Rakesh 'arky' Ambati | | Bangalore (INDIA) | | Homepage: http://arky.port5.com/ | | _______________________________|_ _/_________________________________/
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Rakesh 'arky' Ambati wrote:
As pointed out by Pai, NASSCOM has a charter to be watchdog for legal use of software, it an assocation that _enforceses_.An organisation that works for Free Software should have its goal to educate not enforce.
Sometimes the freedom might need to be enforced. A case in point. http://www.apnic.net/mailing-lists/s-asia-it/archive/2001/07/msg00004.html
When cases of GPL violation happens of Free software developed outside the country, the original software developers are quite helpless in doing much about it in India rather than put up notices on their web pages, and a few emails.
We need a watchdog in India to see the the freedom of software is maintained. Since the software is owned by the community, there is right now no formal body to watch for the software.
The other point of view might be that we concentrate on people "giving" only, rather than people "taking" and not "giving" back.
- Sandip
--- Sandip Bhattacharya sandip@lug-delhi.org wrote:
Rakesh 'arky' Ambati wrote:
As pointed out by Pai, NASSCOM has a charter to be watchdog for legal use of software, it an
assocation
that _enforceses_.An organisation that works for
Free
Software should have its goal to educate not
enforce.
Sometimes the freedom might need to be enforced. A case in point.
http://www.apnic.net/mailing-lists/s-asia-it/archive/2001/07/msg00004.html
When cases of GPL violation happens of Free software developed outside the country, the original software developers are quite helpless in doing much about it in India rather than put up notices on their web pages, and a few emails.
That's a good point Sandip, perhaps we don't want to have Agent Smiths to come and enforce laws as NASSCOM does.
We need a watchdog in India to see the the freedom of software is maintained. Since the software is owned by the community, there is right now no formal body to watch for the software.
The Free Software movement from the begining worked like a tribe rather than organistion with specific wings to keep tabs,I might brings to notice that Pai and other have many times brought to our notice many Free Software based companies right here doing mal-practices that you have pointed out and these problems have been sorted out.
point of view might be that we concentrate on people "giving" only, rather than people "taking" and not "giving" back.
I don't get you, what does the above line mean.
--arky ____
===== ____________________________________ /\ \ _| Rakesh 'arky' Ambati | | Bangalore (INDIA) | | Homepage: http://arky.port5.com/ | | _______________________________|_ _/_________________________________/
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Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
We need a watchdog in India to see the the freedom of software is maintained. Since the software is owned by the community, there is right now no formal body to watch for the software.
In democracies, it is "numbers" that matter. It is the pleasure of the majority that counts. Users will out number the others any day. In our community, the developers, users and others can easily work together without much conflict. Having an association of free software users could be very effective in safeguarding our rights and interests, but we need to have consenus among the various lugs, user groups and others here. Such an assn. could work on issues the way EFF does, along with promoting use of free software in a big way by co-ordinating events.
The other point of view might be that we concentrate on people "giving" only, rather than people "taking" and not "giving" back.
This is in fact a serious issue which needs constant attention and action. It is very, very easy to take free software, make cosmetic changes, and redistribute binaries as non-free software, in plain violation of the GPL or other free licenses. A mechanism to deal with such violations in a routine way by assns. or other orgs. should help.
But, as Arky points out, eduction about the philosophy should make such coercive legal action redundant. People could take and give with joy and celebration, and that alone goes well with the philosophy of love and sharing that is at the heart of our community.
Ramanraj K said on Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 06:28:13AM +0530,:
without much conflict. Having an association of free software users could be very effective in safeguarding our rights and interests, but we need to have consenus among the various lugs, user groups and others here. Such an assn. could work on issues the way EFF does, along with promoting use of free software in a big way by co-ordinating events.
Hey? What is the FSF - I for then?
On Wednesday 20 Oct 2004 3:49 am, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote:
When cases of GPL violation happens of Free software developed outside the country, the original software developers are quite helpless in doing much about it in India rather than put up notices on their web pages, and a few emails.
We need a watchdog in India to see the the freedom of software is maintained. Since the software is owned by the community, there is right now no formal body to watch for the software.
The other point of view might be that we concentrate on people "giving" only, rather than people "taking" and not "giving" back.
FSF India will take up any violation of software freedom issues. This is very much in the scope of the organization. If you know any cases please do bring to the notice by sending an email to gnu@gnu.org.in. Foremost in the objectives of FSF is to protect freedom.
Getting freedom is always an uphill task, we need to work (spend energy) to get it. Environment/society/govt doesnt grant it for you, we need to fight and obtain it. And most important, after getting it we need to protect it.
Nagarjuna
-
Mahesh T. Pai -
Nagarjuna G. -
Rakesh 'arky' Ambati -
Ramanraj K -
Ramanraj K -
Sandip Bhattacharya