,----[ Ramanraj K ramanraj.k@gmail.com ] | [ Re: Workshop on TRIPS Treaty and Computer Programs at UoM ] | participants may be people totally new to free software. We have | received about 100 Ubuntu CD sets, which we will distribute to the | participants to introduce them to free software. `---- Though Ubuntu team did a very nice job, they call their distribution (operating system) as Linux and not as GNU/Linux. It concerns me to promote them.
On Apr 7, 2005 12:42 PM, Anand Babu ab@gnu.org.in wrote:
,----[ Ramanraj K ramanraj.k@gmail.com ] | [ Re: Workshop on TRIPS Treaty and Computer Programs at UoM ] | participants may be people totally new to free software. We have | received about 100 Ubuntu CD sets, which we will distribute to the | participants to introduce them to free software. `---- Though Ubuntu team did a very nice job, they call their distribution (operating system) as Linux and not as GNU/Linux. It concerns me to promote them.
-- Anand Babu GPG Key ID: 0x62E15A31 Personal Blog [http://freedom.freeshell.org] The GNU Operating System [http://www.gnu.org]
On the URL http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/licensing/document_view and under the section The purpose of the "restricted" component they say
The Ubuntu team recognizes that many users have vital hardware in their computer that requires drivers that are currently only available in binary format. We urge all hardware vendors to insist that their suppliers provide open source drivers for their components, but we recognise that in some cases binary drivers are the only way to make your hardware work. As a result, Ubuntu includes several of these drivers on the CD and in the repository, clearly separated from the rest of the software by being placed in the restricted component.
Binary drivers are a poor choice, if you have a choice. Without source code, Ubuntu cannot support this software, we only provide it for users who require it to be able to run the Free Software we provide in main. Also, we cannot make binary drivers available on other architectures (such as the Mac or IPAQ) if we don't have the ability to port the software source code ourselves. If your hardware is fully supported with open source drivers you can simply remove the restricted component, and we would encourage you to do so.
If closed source code drivers are a bad choice after all, why include them in the first place ?
The reason they provide that closed source drivers are required to be able to run "Free Software" they provide in the main is as lame an excuse as one can get.
Vivek Vaghese Cherian wrote:
On the URL http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/licensing/document_view and under the section The purpose of the "restricted" component they say
The Ubuntu team recognizes that many users have vital hardware in their computer that requires drivers that are currently only available in binary format. We urge all hardware vendors to insist that their suppliers provide open source drivers for their components, but we recognise that in some cases binary drivers are the only way to make your hardware work. As a result, Ubuntu includes several of these drivers on the CD and in the repository, clearly separated from the rest of the software by being placed in the restricted component.
Binary drivers are a poor choice, if you have a choice. Without source code, Ubuntu cannot support this software, we only provide it for users who require it to be able to run the Free Software we provide in main. Also, we cannot make binary drivers available on other architectures (such as the Mac or IPAQ) if we don't have the ability to port the software source code ourselves. If your hardware is fully supported with open source drivers you can simply remove the restricted component, and we would encourage you to do so.
If closed source code drivers are a bad choice after all, why include them in the first place ?
The reason they provide that closed source drivers are required to be able to run "Free Software" they provide in the main is as lame an excuse as one can get.
So far the drivers and other things alleged to be "non-free" because they don't come with source code, please write the source code and send it to them as they request. Before the linux kernel was written, GNU Project tools certainly required a proprietary operating system for use, and was basically serving non-free software, though working towards a totally free system, and this task of making free device drivers looks like another mere extension or dimension of that. I am told that the single great difficulty in this regard is that the hardware manufacturers do not disclose technical details, such as registers, which makes the task of writing free device drivers difficult. If you have purchased any such hardware that did not disclose sufficient information about its registers that force you to waste time on "reverse engineering", please think of asking them to disclose details or even think of complaining to the appropriate authorities against this unethical practice in exercise of your rights as a consumer. Many consumers are lame in exercising their rights, and there is little point in blaming developers for not supporting them.
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 06:25:59AM +0530, Ramanraj K wrote:
Vivek Vaghese Cherian wrote:
I do agree that helping the community by writing driver code is indeed the proactive way of handling this issue.
If you have purchased any such hardware that did not disclose sufficient information about its registers that force you to waste time on "reverse engineering", please think of asking them to disclose details or even think of complaining to the appropriate authorities against this unethical practice in exercise of your rights as a consumer. Many consumers are lame in exercising their rights, and there is little point in blaming developers for not supporting them.
1) What are the existing laws in India that support the customer against unethical pratices like not disclosing sufficient information about hardware registers that force one to waste time on "reverse engineering" ?
Any URL containing the relevant laws would be of additional help.
2) What is the name of the appropriate authority to complain to against the unethical practice of not disclosing sufficient information about hardware registers that force one to waste time on "reverse engineering" ?
I feel this info would be vital not only for me but also to countless other victims of hardware vendors not disclosing sufficient information about their hardware.
Regards,
Vivek Varghese Cherian Free as in Freedom <www.gnu.org>
,----[ Vivek Vaghese Cherian wrote:] | I do agree that helping the community by writing driver code is indeed | the proactive way of handling this issue. | | 1) What are the existing laws in India that support the customer | against unethical pratices like not disclosing sufficient information | about hardware registers that force one to waste time on "reverse | engineering" ? | | Any URL containing the relevant laws would be of additional help. | | 2) What is the name of the appropriate authority to complain to | against the unethical practice of not disclosing sufficient | information about hardware registers that force one to waste time on | "reverse engineering" ? | | I feel this info would be vital not only for me but also to countless | other victims of hardware vendors not disclosing sufficient | information about their hardware. `----
The TRIPs Agreement made provisions for LAYOUT-DESIGNS (TOPOGRAPHIES) OF INTEGRATED CIRCUITS and pursuant to it, we have the Semiconductor Integrated Circuits Layout-Design Act, 2000 that deals with most of the issues involved here. _IF_ a card is registered under this law, then it should be fairly easy to get to the details (under S. 87 of the Act, the documents are open to public inspection). Also, note the following:
http://164.100.24.167/bul1/203/09122004.htm <quote> A copy each (in English and Hindi) of the following Notifications of the Ministry of Communications and Information Technology (Department of Information Technology), under section 96 of the Semiconductor Integrated Circuits Layout-Design Act, 2000
(1) S.O. 277 (E) dated the 1st March, 2004, appointing Dr. K.S. Chari Scientist 'G', Department of Information Technology to hold additional charge of Registrar of Semiconductor Integrated Circuits Layout-Design.
(2) S.O. 278 (E) dated the 1st March, 2004, appointing the 1st day of May, 2004, as the date on which the provisions of section 3 and section 5 of the said Act shall come into force.
(3) S.O. 279 (E) dated the 1st March, 2004, establishing a Registry which shall be known as the Semiconductor Integrated Circuits Layout-Design Registry (SICLDR) and specifying that the head office of the Semiconductor Integrated Circuits Layout-Design Registry so established shall be located in the Department of Information Technology, C.G.O Complex, Lodi Road, New Delhi and the territorial limits within which such office of the Semiconductor Integrated Circuits Layout-Design Registry may exercise its functions shall be the whole of India. </quote>
But, mostly the vast majority of cards in the market may *not* registered as above. In such cases, it should be enough to write to the concerned manufacturer asking for details, or even ask for driver source code written in C. If polite requests do not yield results, then, the most efficacious remedy would be to insist upon your rights as a "consumer" before the Consumer Forum for relief, including claims for damages, if any. Of course, under the Consumer Protection Act, "Consumer" does not include a person who obtains such goods for resale or for any commercial purpose. But, "commercial purpose" does not include use by a consumer of goods bought and used by him exclusively for the purpose of earning his livelihood, by means of self-employment.
Most Acts are available online at http://indiacode.nic.in/sht.asp and a search for "Consumer Protection Act" returns a text file of the Act.
,----[Anand Babu wrote: ] |,----[ Ramanraj K ramanraj.k@gmail.com ] || [ Re: Workshop on TRIPS Treaty and Computer Programs at UoM ] || participants may be people totally new to free software. We have || received about 100 Ubuntu CD sets, which we will distribute to the || participants to introduce them to free software. |`---- | Though Ubuntu team did a very nice job, they call their distribution | (operating system) as Linux and not as GNU/Linux. It concerns me to | promote them. `----
The outer wrapper has the picture of three charming persons holding each other, arm to arm in support, forming the Ubuntu circle that clearly depicts the core free software philosophy of sharing and "humanity towards others", as graphically as possible, and the fine print in the midst of all this says: "free linux software" and "ubuntu - linux for human beings". On the reverse, "Ubuntu" and "Free and Open Source Software" are the prominent headings giving further details about both. But, there must be many who miss the big picture, and for their benefit, I wish Ubuntu accepts your request.
One of the founders of the Ubunu project is Lorenzo, an old member of the FSF/GNU Project webmasters board, who appears to have "converted" now. http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/LorenzoHernandezGarciaHierro
Free Software movement includes all our Open Source friends, who prefer calling GNU/Linux merely as "Linux". I strongly advocate use of "Free Software" terminology particularly in legal documents and wherever accuracy, correctness, truth, and validity are extremely important and crucial. But, "FOSS", "Free and Open Source Software" terminology have been given currency by many people in the free software movement, and there is little point in objecting to use of that terminology. If anyone is really concerned about it, they would probably first try convincing some of the people who sit on FSF Award Selection Committees, FSF working groups, many of whom I know to be *actively promoting* use of "Linux", "Open Source", FOSS Terminology and *severely critical* of "GNU/Linux" and "Free Software". Using "Open Source" people or resources when it is convenient, but attacking them at other times is likely to be seen as hipocracy rather than any sincere faith in Free Software philosophy.
Recognising our "Open Source" friends as those providing drive and momentum to Free Software will help in avoiding needless issues and make it easier to avail their assistance to take the free software movement forward.
But, "FOSS", "Free and Open Source Software" terminology have been given currency by many people in the free software movement, and there is little point in objecting to use of that terminology.
We don't object when people use the term "FOSS". It is a legitimate way to refer to the free software and open source movements together, without taking a side between them.
Richard Stallman wrote:
But, "FOSS", "Free and Open Source Software"
terminology have been given currency by many people in the free software movement, and there is little point in objecting to use of that terminology.
We don't object when people use the term "FOSS". It is a legitimate way to refer to the free software and open source movements together, without taking a side between them.
What would be neutral between "Linux" and GNU/Linux? When people use "Open Source" terminology while marketing Free Software, they invariably also use "Linux" to refer to the GNU/Linux operating system.
OSI openly says that "Open Source" is a marketing program for Free Software. They seem to highlight only the practical aspects of Free Software, and that seems to work well on some people. Would it not mean that there is only one movement, the free software movement, which obviously includes all our "Open Source" friends? "Open Source" friends may have some issues with some of us (mostly they sound private or personal), but generally we can't have any issues with them. "Linux" vs. GNU/Linux is sure to end in a compromise, once Hurd is ready, and we may just use the more sophisticated GNU operating system, that runs on HURD by default.
The larger movement always includes the lesser or newer, and this approach should help us while building project teams or organising events in India and elsewhere too. HTH.
Regards, Ramanraj.
>We don't object when people use the term "FOSS". It is a legitimate >way to refer to the free software and open source movements together, >without taking a side between them. > What would be neutral between "Linux" and GNU/Linux?
There's no way to be neutral on that issue.
These are two issues of terminology that we care about, but they are not similar issues.
Calling the GNU/Linux system "Linux" is misleading and unfair to us. We don't publicly work with people who do this.
Speaking of "open source" is not misleading or unfair. It simply means endorsing a view that disagrees deeply with ours. It isn't dishonest. We can work with people that hold these views, when we and they have common interests, provided the joint activity acknowledges the free software movement. (It could be called a FLOSS activity, since that acknowledges the free software movement.)
If anyone is really concerned about it, they would probably first try convincing some of the people who sit on FSF Award Selection Committees, FSF working groups, many of whom I know to be *actively promoting* use of "Linux", "Open Source", FOSS Terminology and *severely critical* of "GNU/Linux" and "Free Software".
The award committee includes people who support "open source" and who call the system "Linux". But they don't speak to the public in connection with our awards, so this does not cause a problem.
When you say "FSF working groups", what does that mean? The FSF does not have anything that we call working groups. Perhaps FSF India has some working groups; is that what you mean?