Hi RMS, ,----[ Richard Stallman rms@gnu.org ] | Whether PlayFair would be considered legal in the US is a hard | question, given the details of what it does. I think it is safer to | host it outside the US, in countries where there is really no law like | the DMCA. | | I am looking for help in the Brazilian government. | | If people interested in hosting the program want to talk with the | PlayFair developers, can you serve as an intermediary? `----
PlayFair author has already made me (Anand Babu) as official project-maintainer and I am part of the development team. So I will be the contact-person for this project.
People from FSF-India are actively exploring possibilities to help PlayFair project, both in terms of hosting service and legal guidance.
Fighting DMCA is no easy task. We would like to get as much help as possible.
Thanks
,----[ Richard Stallman rms@gnu.org ] | Whether PlayFair would be considered legal in the US is a hard | question, given the details of what it does. I think it is safer to | host it outside the US, in countries where there is really no law like | the DMCA. `----
,----[ Anand Babu ab@gnu.org.in ] | Fighting DMCA is no easy task. `----
It never has been, as the US Supreme Court has struck down legislation as unconstitutional in only a little more than two dozen cases in the past over 200 years. But we are in good company, and I would like to share a few cases hoping that they can keep our spirits high.
Marbury v. Madison 2 L. Ed. 60 (1803) also reported at http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/9.htm is always traditionally cited for the proposition that courts have the power of judicial review - to strike down unconstitutional legislation. Chief Justice Marshall observed in his landmark judgement, "It seems only necessary to recognize certain principles, supposed to have been long and well established, to decide it".
Long and well established? Many lawyers like Alexander Hamilton were at that time hammering the concept of judicial review into judicial consciousness.
During a Revolution, North Carolina had confiscated and sold tory estates; to protect the new owners, the legislature enacted that in any action to recover confiscated land, the courts must grant a motion to dismiss the suit. Bayard brought such a suit, and Singleton made a motion for dismissal. In this case of Bayard v. Singleton (1787) instead of granting the motion, the high court of the state delayed decision and recommended a jury trial to settle the issue of ownership. The legislature summoned the judges before it to determine whether they were guilty of malpractice in office by disregarding a statute. The legislature found no basis for impeachment but refused to revise the statute. On a renewed motion to dismiss, the court held the act void, because "by the constitution every citizen had undoubtedly a right to a decision of his property by trial by jury. In defense of judicial review, the court reasoned that no statute could alter or repeal the state constitution, which was fundamental law, and submitted the case to a jury.
In the Ten Pound Act Case (1787), a court in New Hampshire ruled that an act conflicted with right to trial by jury, and the state legislature demanded impeachment of judges. The judges courageously stood by their decision, and reaffirmed it in another case also.
The past history of judicial review shows that even Judges have had to risk their offices, to boldly defend the constitution that guaranteed rights and freedoms. None of our freedoms were won easily and the fight can sometimes be long and tedious like the issue below that led to a string of cases:
Dr. Wilder Tileston, a Connecticut physician wanted to challenge the constitutionality of that state's statutory prohibition of the "use of drugs or instruments to prevent conception, and the giving of assistance or counsel in their use" and this case is now known as Tileston v. Ullman (1943). Having lost his appeal in the Connecticut Supreme Court of Errors, he endeavoured to get Federal Supreme Court review. The Court observed that Dr. Tileston `alleged that the statue, if applicable to him, would prevent his giving professional advice concerning the use of contraceptives to three patients whose condition of health was such that their lives would be endangered by child bearing, and the appellees intend to prosecute any offence against the statute.' It was also contended that the statute was violative of the XIV Amendment of the Constitution which prohibited a state from depriving any person of life without due process of law. The Court held that the proceedings in the state courts present no constitutional question which appellant has standing to assert and the appeal was dismissed.
Again in 1961, the opponents of the Connecticut statute tried challenging the law, this time with patients and a physician as plaintiffs. This was Poe v. Ullman and Buxton v. Ullman (381 US 479 [1965]), wherein, Justice Frankfurter, by a narrow majority of 5:4, held the controversy not to be fit for adjudication, as no one had in fact been injured, jailed or fined under the said law, and held the `Court cannot be umpire to debates concerning harmless, empty shadows".
The statute's opponents were not mollified and became more determined to challenge it. They opened a birth-control clinic in New Haven, advertising its existence, and the state decided to prosecute them. They finally had `standing'. This was in Griswold v. Connecticut (381 US 479 [1965]), where the Supreme Court declared the law to be an unconstitutional infringement not only of Amendment XIV, but also of Amendments I, III, IV, and IX, by way of `penumbras formed by emanations'.
Even simple pleasures of life like using a condom, listening to music, or writing code cannot be taken for granted. Sometimes legislatures have other plans for us, and there is no other alternative but to challenge their constitutional validity before the courts. When we have proper e-Governance programs in future, these legislative acts will refuse to compile returning errors and abort before getting life to start harassing people.
Regards, Ramanraj.
Given significant funds, you could try hosting it in Sealand, an offshore oil platform that declared itself an independent country, runs high security web hosting and, according to their website,
'Sealand currently has no regulations regarding copyright, patents, libel, restrictions on political speech, non-disclosure agreements, cryptography, restrictions on maintaining customer records, tax or mandatory licensing, DMCA, music sharing services, or other issues; *child pornography* is the only content explicitly prohibited.'
http://www.sealandgov.com/ http://www.havenco.com/
The only trouble is that their cheapest hosting package is US$750 per month with minimal bandwidth. That's the price to pay for '12" thick concrete walls, 24x7 armed security, and miles of empty sea between you and any threat.'
Ultimately I believe this will happen to everything - money moves to 'offshore' financial havens, internet content moves to 'offshore' internet havens, cloning research will move to 'offshore' biotech havens...
Will Smith Malaysia
Anand Babu wrote:
Hi RMS, ,----[ Richard Stallman rms@gnu.org ] | Whether PlayFair would be considered legal in the US is a hard | question, given the details of what it does. I think it is safer to | host it outside the US, in countries where there is really no law like | the DMCA. | | I am looking for help in the Brazilian government. | | If people interested in hosting the program want to talk with the | PlayFair developers, can you serve as an intermediary? `----
PlayFair author has already made me (Anand Babu) as official project-maintainer and I am part of the development team. So I will be the contact-person for this project.
People from FSF-India are actively exploring possibilities to help PlayFair project, both in terms of hosting service and legal guidance.
Fighting DMCA is no easy task. We would like to get as much help as possible.
Thanks
Imran William Smith said on Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 12:46:04AM +0800,:
Given significant funds, you could try hosting it in Sealand, an offshore oil platform that declared itself an
Funny, how often history repeats.
In the early days of commercial radio broadcasts, when Her Majesty's government sought to regulate transmissions from the English soil, `smart' businessess simply hired a ship, anchored about a safe distance outside the territorial waters, and transmitted merrily, un shackled by all regulations.
IIRC, to this day, you need to register your radio receivers (what we call the transistor in India) and televisions in England. Correct me if I am wrong. Even a few years back, we too had this lousy requirement, till some under-secretary decided to change the rules. Another petty IAS officer can come along and decide to revive that.
independent country, runs high security web hosting and, according to their website,
Do thay have an army? Navy? AWACS? A `shock & awe' proof military?
'Sealand currently has no regulations regarding copyright, patents,
Excellent. But the trouble is, most countries will get at its citizens if they violate domestic laws even while in foreign lands.
If I. W. Smith comes to India and does something which is an offence in Malaysia, his govt. will wait till he returns ...
Ditto for Mahesh T Pai finding some inconvenient Indian rule and deciding to visit Malaysia to get around the inconvenience.
Ultimately I believe this will happen to everything - money moves to 'offshore' financial havens, internet content moves to 'offshore' internet havens, cloning research will move to 'offshore' biotech havens...
A well known Malayalam poet penned these words:-
`Change the rules, else the rules will change you'.
Imran William Smith said on Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 12:46:04AM +0800,:
Ugh. Oh. This place is situated SIX miles from shore of England. India's territorial waters extend twenty nautical miles.
I am not very sure that the claim of territorial independence stands - they seem to be within English territorial waters - and subject to Major's* laws.
(*) John Major, if you did not get. He happens to be the major (pun intended) ally for the president of a particular country, who was declared elected in the absence of majority votes, and then let himself loose upon another country ... This chap will not require any major (again ...) incentive to declare that this islet is within English territorial waters.
--
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Mahesh T. Pai, LL.M., 'NANDINI', S. R. M. Road, Ernakulam, Cochin-682018, Kerala, India.
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
"Imran" == Imran William Smith imran@imran.info writes:
Imran> Given significant funds, you could try hosting it in Imran> Sealand, an offshore oil platform that declared itself an Imran> independent country, runs high security web hosting and, Imran> according to their website,
There are two issues here -- one of hosting PlayFair and the other of Sarovar having to cease and desist from hosting PlayFair.
I personally believe that the issue of hosting is not the crucial one. More critical is the question, can Apple be permitted to invoke a DMCA-like threat to suppress the publication of free (or any) software in India? Are we (the free software community) going to sit back and watch as our rights are chiselled away?
You can run but you can't hide.
Imran> [snip]
Imran> Ultimately I believe this will happen to everything - money Imran> moves to 'offshore' financial havens, internet content Imran> moves to 'offshore' internet havens, cloning research will Imran> move to 'offshore' biotech havens...
Sounds rather William Gibson-ish.
Regards,
- -- Raju
Imran> Will Smith Malaysia
Imran> Anand Babu wrote:
>> Hi RMS, ,----[ Richard Stallman rms@gnu.org ] | Whether >> PlayFair would be considered legal in the US is a hard | >> question, given the details of what it does. I think it is >> safer to | host it outside the US, in countries where there is >> really no law like | the DMCA. >> | >> | I am looking for help in the Brazilian government. >> | >> | If people interested in hosting the program want to talk with >> the | PlayFair developers, can you serve as an intermediary? >> `---- >> >> PlayFair author has already made me (Anand Babu) as official >> project-maintainer and I am part of the development team. So I >> will be the contact-person for this project. >> >> People from FSF-India are actively exploring possibilities to >> help PlayFair project, both in terms of hosting service and >> legal guidance. >> >> Fighting DMCA is no easy task. We would like to get as much >> help as possible.
- -- Raj Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F It is the mind that moves
,----[ Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org ] | >>>>> "Imran" == Imran William Smith imran@imran.info writes: | | Imran> Given significant funds, you could try hosting it in | Imran> Sealand, an offshore oil platform that declared itself an | Imran> independent country, runs high security web hosting and, | Imran> according to their website, | | There are two issues here -- one of hosting PlayFair and the other of | Sarovar having to cease and desist from hosting PlayFair. | | I personally believe that the issue of hosting is not the crucial one. | More critical is the question, can Apple be permitted to invoke a | DMCA-like threat to suppress the publication of free (or any) software | in India? Are we (the free software community) going to sit back and | watch as our rights are chiselled away? | | You can run but you can't hide. `---- Thats exactly the point. There is no point in hiding. It only boosts Apple's confidence and ends up in dirty games.
I am visiting India soon to launch this project. So far no body has come forward with hosting service. I am even willing to pay for it and I have my own hardware too.
Hi list,
Read this paper on PlayFair project by raj*'s
Rajkumar S s_raj@flashmail.com Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org
http://kandalaya.org/playfair.txt
--arky
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