Existence of financial black-hole now confirmed, the discipline that preached greed is now bent upon tasting the blood of its disciples - practising the philosophy itself.
Most of those who invested in SEZs , particularly the IT/ITES ones are well-poised to lose their deposits - not to mention about the plight of those who took bigger risks off the Stock Markets. The giant Titanic is sinking ... Economic theories are now failing the discipline ... what a way to go !!
Smart City would be smarter for the ones who preferred to be out of it. All other who burnt their fingers, can at least take solace that through their sacrifice, they were able to prevent others.
My worry is this should be an occasion for the left parties to rejoice on the streets - no one's to be seen; where are they ... Were they capitalists wearing lamb's garbs ...
Free Software communities will continue to focus on people, overriding corporates - why do we need them, when we can deliver it ourselves ...
Cheers, lets continue the celebrations .... with more freedom walks, freedom races, freedom parties ....
CK Raju
On Monday 20 Oct 2008, CK Raju wrote:
Existence of financial black-hole now confirmed, the discipline that preached greed is now bent upon tasting the blood of its disciples - practising the philosophy itself.
[snip] My worry is this should be an occasion for the left parties to rejoice on the streets - no one's to be seen; where are they ... Were they capitalists wearing lamb's garbs ...
Free Software communities will continue to focus on people, overriding corporates - why do we need them, when we can deliver it ourselves ...
Cheers, lets continue the celebrations .... with more freedom walks, freedom races, freedom parties ....
Are you saying that free software is in some way associated with communism, or anti-capitalist? If so, you are completely wrong IMNSHO. And what are we celebrating anyway? People losing jobs and killing themselves, children rendered homeless and hungry, economies collapsing? Only a seriously twisted mind could be rejoicing cutting off his nose to spite his own face.
Regards,
-- Raju
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
collapsing? Only a seriously twisted mind could be rejoicing cutting off his nose to spite his own face.
I knew you would be drawn in, Raju. Was re-expecting the "..hungry stomach story of dog.." here !!
I am too busy, celebrating ....
Cheers, CK Raju
Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
Are you saying that free software is in some way associated with communism, or anti-capitalist? If so, you are completely wrong IMNSHO. And what are we celebrating anyway? People losing jobs and killing themselves, children rendered homeless and hungry, economies collapsing? Only a seriously twisted mind could be rejoicing cutting off his nose to spite his own face.
How do you pronouce schadenfreude? That seems to have become an immensely useful word these days. ;-)
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Sajith T S sajith@gmail.com wrote:
How do you pronouce schadenfreude? That seems to have become an immensely useful word these days. ;-)
Perhaps it should have been the usual practice with a minority group earlier. Not anymore.
If confirmed, a major bloodshed that was in store is now avoided ...
I can't but rejoice...
CK Raju
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
And what are we celebrating anyway? People losing...
Celebrating the way equality has been set in by the [stock] markets, making rich people at par with the existing poor ones. Even Gods and Governments failed to recognise such a possibility. Markets, to an atheist like me, now appears as God.
BTW India is a socialist republic ... draw your own conclusions ... I'm just drawing mine...
CK Raju
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
People losing jobs and killing themselves, children rendered homeless
Where was such a concern earlier, Raj ? It was India Shining all the way ...
Trade and industries ministers were creating more and more opportunities for violence in future ... they still keep doing it ... whether they be from right wing or left wing ...
The current turmoil is certainly not the first set of such violent stories. Ministers had to be forced to come out and help. Now, they are doing it even without any one calling for help... as if governments are for the market, of the market and by the market.
CK Raju
On Monday 20 Oct 2008, CK Raju wrote:
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:46 AM, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org
wrote:
And what are we celebrating anyway? People losing...
Celebrating the way equality has been set in by the [stock] markets, making rich people at par with the existing poor ones. Even Gods and Governments failed to recognise such a possibility. Markets, to an atheist like me, now appears as God.
BTW India is a socialist republic ... draw your own conclusions ... I'm just drawing mine...
This is a list for discussion of Free Software, not a vehicle for promoting your communist, marxist, capitalist or socialist ideas. Trying to associate free software with any of these ideologies is completely incorrect IMO.
And if your post isn't trying to relate the role of ideology FOO in the current economic situation with free software, may I suggest that you take it to some other purely political mailing list?
I'd rather not have communist-indoctrined ideology spouted on this list. I'd rather not have capitalist-centric intolerant ideology spouted either. Let's talk about Free Software, or not at all.
Regards,
-- Raju
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
I'd rather not have communist-indoctrined ideology spouted on this list. I'd rather not have capitalist-centric intolerant ideology spouted either. Let's talk about Free Software, or not at all.
Free Software has no existence of its own - its not an autonomous discipline - its principles are intricably linked to principles of many other disciplines and philosophies. For someone to move with least errors, there has to be a fair amount of exposure of some of the basic principles of other disciplines.
I guess, for people who do want to discuss or listen, they still retain their freedom to do so !! There's absolutely no compulsion to respond. There's still a "/dev/null", to quote your old words ....
CK Raju
On Monday 20 Oct 2008, CK Raju wrote:
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org
wrote:
I'd rather not have communist-indoctrined ideology spouted on this list. I'd rather not have capitalist-centric intolerant ideology spouted either. Let's talk about Free Software, or not at all.
Free Software has no existence of its own - its not an autonomous discipline - its principles are intricably linked to principles of many other disciplines and philosophies. For someone to move with least errors, there has to be a fair amount of exposure of some of the basic principles of other disciplines.
What are ``least errors''? Who defines ``fair amount of exposure''? What other ``disciplines'' must we familiarise ourselves with? Am I not a good member of the Free Software community just because I don't have a ``fair amount of exposure'' to these disciplines? Is there a political test that people have to give before they start promoting, using or developing free software? What is Linus' political ideology? What is RMS' political ideology? What is the official stance of the FSF on capitalism vs communism? Do they even HAVE an official stance? Do they advise all comers to their web sites to read Das Kapital (or alternatively, Wealth of Nations) before they (the users) understand what Free Software is all about and start using it?
If you believe that Free Software is purely a communist (or capitalist) ideology, please state so clearly so we can discuss that (that IS related to free software, so I don't have compunctions about discussing it here). Playing with words and vague generalities, on the other hand, is meaningless just makes one appear pompous and ill-equipped to carry on a debate.
Regards,
-- Raju
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
it here). Playing with words and vague generalities, on the other hand, is meaningless just makes one appear pompous and ill-equipped to carry on a debate.
to my /dev/null
CK Raju
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org wrote:
What is RMS' political ideology? What is the official stance of the FSF on capitalism vs communism? Do they even HAVE an official stance?
"Why Don't You Move to Russia?"
In the United States, any advocate of other than the most extreme form of laissez-faire selfishness has often heard this accusation. For example, it is leveled against the supporters of a national health care system, such as is found in all the other industrialized nations of the free world. It is leveled against the advocates of public support for the arts, also universal in advanced nations. The idea that citizens have any obligation to the public good is identified in America with Communism. But how similar are these ideas?
Communism as was practiced in the Soviet Union was a system of central control where all activity was regimented, supposedly for the common good, but actually for the sake of the members of the Communist party. And where copying equipment was closely guarded to prevent illegal copying.
The American system of software copyright exercises central control over distribution of a program, and guards copying equipment with automatic copying-protection schemes to prevent illegal copying.
By contrast, I am working to build a system where people are free to decide their own actions; in particular, free to help their neighbors, and free to alter and improve the tools which they use in their daily lives. A system based on voluntary cooperation and on decentralization.
Thus, if we are to judge views by their resemblance to Russian Communism, it is the software owners who are the Communists. From: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html
It also has a Tamil Translation: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.ta.html
:-)
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CK Raju -
Raj Mathur -
Sajith T S -
Sri Ramadoss M