Hi Friends,
I understand and respect your confidence and am myself a staunch follower of FSF and open source. Infact the company where i am working is a live example where i have ensured that they have moved to linux rather than win 2003 and .NET.
But Dear Rishi and Anivar,
Let me give you a backgrounder. Mr. Ram Reddy is the editor at "The Hindu" and has been referred to me through another friend of ours at FSF. The reason I sent a copy of what he wrote about Linux is to initiate a debate and i am happy that we are discussing this further. Now, he is a live example of an END USER PERSPECTIVE on Linux Desktops. Let me remind you I am not talking of Linux as a Server.
If you were at Microsoft or even IBM and giving statements like "I care a Damn on what Mr. Ram Reddy" thinks .... you know the result.
Now I have a question for you ... are "Diversity" and "Flexibility" synonyms of "Complexity" and "Non-Rich User Experience"??
No! You can be as flexible as you want and still be Flexible and diverse. And I am not decrying Linux, i know we are reaching there slowly but surely and we all know Microsoft is struggling to retain 2 million Windows NT base.
So, when the competetion picks up it is the BUYERS market and you have to be very agile to pick up a market share. And we have to behave very responsibly and look at the world from customer's perspective. We have a big resposibility here. Remember we are not a market leaders but intend to be. You like it or dislike it Microsoft is still there on 94% of wold's desktops. You know why .. because they dont ignore the suggestions of guys like Ram Reddy.
Please do not look at this as a Developer, try looking at it as a business man or an end user.
We have have done a lot to reach here, lets not assume that we are the best, lets plug each and every hole one by one ... cause thats the only way we can turn from a philosophical minority to MASS Majority.
Please do not take this note as personal, it is for every Linux Evangalist who thinks we are the best. If you still think so, please read the mail sent by Mr. Ram Reddy (and you can be sure that he is a responsible guy giving genuine opinion) once again.
Lets continue to improve, to end the note .. I am going to Mr. Ram Reddy's place this weekend and be sure we will win one more guy for FSF !!
Hail FSF, regards, tarun
From: Rishi rishi@gangfam.com To: "Anivar Aravind" anivar@linuxmail.org,"Tarun Gaur" gaur_tarun@hotmail.com, fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in Subject: Re: [Fsf-friends] I'll restore Linux and your confidence too !! Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:18:03 +0530
On Tuesday 27 Apr 2004 9:25 pm, Anivar Aravind wrote:
"Tarun Gaur" said on Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:42:56 +0000
I am sure i will be able to restore your confidence in Linux and open source. On our front we will make every effort to ensure that the
Linux
is made easy for the end users.
i have enough confidence on linux kernel. if u want to restore anyones confidence plz send personal mails to them. i dont want any mail in the class "opensource" through free software foundations list.
Hi Anivar,
I guess Tarun was just trying to get us to help Mr. Reddy. Maybe we could be a little helpful... what say?
Is FSF is alotted FSF friends list as Tarun Gaur's personal mail box? then rename it as gaur's-friends and unsubsribe me from it
Just some thoughts on how to re-phrase the sentence above to achieve the same goal but with a more gentle approach. ;-)
======================================================== Hi Tarun,
In future, could you forward the e-mail to the FSF list requesting for assistance in helping you with getting Mr. Reddy to stay motivated with using free software, instead of BCC the fsf-friends list? ========================================================
Regards
Rishi
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Tarun Gaur wrote:
Now, he is a live example of an END USER PERSPECTIVE on Linux Desktops. Let me remind you I am not talking of Linux as a Server.
you still did not the get the point.
To put it bluntly use GNU/Linux instead of Linux and don't mention the word "opensource" here and all will be fine.
raj
|| On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:22:08 +0000 || Tarun Gaur gaur_tarun@hotmail.com wrote:
gaur_tarun> Hi Friends, gaur_tarun> I understand and respect your confidence and am myself a staunch gaur_tarun> follower of FSF and open source. Infact the company where i am working
Tarun,
FSF is not connected with Open SOurce movement. Again fsf.org/philosophy is your friend.
gaur_tarun> If you were at Microsoft or even IBM and giving statements like "I gaur_tarun> care a Damn on what Mr. Ram Reddy" thinks .... you know the result.
Didn't get you.
gaur_tarun> No! You can be as flexible as you want and still be Flexible and gaur_tarun> diverse. And I am not decrying Linux, i know we are reaching there gaur_tarun> slowly but surely and we all know Microsoft is struggling to retain 2 gaur_tarun> million Windows NT base.
gaur_tarun> So, when the competetion picks up it is the BUYERS market and you have gaur_tarun> to be very agile to pick up a market share. And we have to behave very gaur_tarun> responsibly and look at the world from customer's perspective. We have gaur_tarun> a big resposibility here. Remember we are not a market leaders but gaur_tarun> intend to be. You like it or dislike it Microsoft is still there on gaur_tarun> 94% of wold's desktops. You know why .. because they dont ignore the gaur_tarun> suggestions of guys like Ram Reddy.
gaur_tarun> Please do not look at this as a Developer, try looking at it as a gaur_tarun> business man or an end user.
Oh.. we just don't care. Atleast I just don't care. We don't need a Ram Mohan Reddy or an Anand Parthasarathy to praise Free Software movement to "succeed" (if success means "increase the user base or whatever).
Free Software is not a business movement, it is a political and social movement. If you care for businesses and their "success", you better find your way out to opensource.org. They are friends of yours and share your thinking. For them just opening the source is enough, they don't care whether one can study, copy, modify and redistribute software. So.. good for parasites and businesses.
gaur_tarun> We have have done a lot to reach here, lets not assume that we are the
Exactly. It is 20+ years of effort. Let us not sabotage it all. We care for freedom not for businesses and user base.
gaur_tarun> Please do not take this note as personal
Echoing the same from here too..
gaur_tarun> Lets continue to improve, to end the note .. I am going to Mr. Ram gaur_tarun> Reddy's place this weekend and be sure we will win one more guy for gaur_tarun> FSF !!
Thanks. But please talk about Freedom and (hence) the benefits it brings to masses like better quality, reliability, security, not to mention the eye-candiness of GNOME and KDE. Freedom and free information is what's all about the FSF philosophy.
cheers
Hi Tarun,
Now, he is a live example of an END USER PERSPECTIVE on Linux Desktops. Let me remind you I am not talking of Linux as a Server.
I use Linux at home and office as a Desktop. Been doing that for the past 1 year now.... Linux Servers have been at the office and home since 1996. ;-)
Now I have a question for you ... are "Diversity" and "Flexibility" synonyms of "Complexity" and "Non-Rich User Experience"??
Sure they are. But the more crucial point I'm trying to make is the Value of Freedom which according to me, supercedes the more shallow concept of having a 'Rich User Experience'.....
This of course depends on the crux that the end-user values freedom.
From where I sit and all the friends at FSF, I'm sure we value freedom first and then "Rich User Experience"
So, when the competetion picks up it is the BUYERS market and you have to be very agile to pick up a market share. And we have to behave very responsibly and look at the world from customer's perspective. We have a big resposibility here. Remember we are not a market leaders but intend to be. You like it or dislike it Microsoft is still there on 94% of wold's desktops. You know why .. because they dont ignore the suggestions of guys like Ram Reddy.
That's the other issue.... who is 'we' ?
FSF Friends: Are a group of people that value freedom and wish to participate and help people spread the concept of free software. We're not working on becoming market leaders.
Red Hat / Mandrake / Suse: Are comercial organizations that value the concept of freedom and make software products / services available to the public at a price. They are working on becoming market leaders.
This is the angle that's different... There isn't software (product) to buy in the free software world. If at all there are services to be bought...
1. With Free Software ... it's usually supported by the community who provide support through newsgroups and e-mail .... such as the FSF Friends list.
2. With non-Free Software ... it's usually supported by the hardware / software vendor's that's making money on selling/installing the software product for the end-user. In the case of Windows and MS Office, hardware vendors in India typically (90%) install it for 'free' (piracy) so that they get to sell a computer...
In Mr. Reddy's case did he buy Mandrake with installation support? Or did he get the CDs from some guy?
Note: Windows without installation charges cost Rs. 5-8K per PC.
Mandrake or Redhat (Fedora) can be bought at much lower prices than 5K.
Please do not look at this as a Developer, try looking at it as a business man or an end user.
Sure... If he (Mr. Reddy) want's to install Linux he can pay someone (you) to do it. You could charge him Rs. 500-2000 to do the job.. I would if I were you.
We have have done a lot to reach here, lets not assume that we are the best, lets plug each and every hole one by one ... cause thats the only way we can turn from a philosophical minority to MASS Majority.
Here comes that 'we' thing again. ;-)
You need to figure out who 'we' is ....
Please do not take this note as personal, it is for every Linux Evangalist who thinks we are the best. If you still think so, please read the mail sent by Mr. Ram Reddy (and you can be sure that he is a responsible guy giving genuine opinion) once again.
His feedback, I'm sure is great... but it needs to be directed towards the commercial organization providing the Linux Distro "Mandrake" and not the FSF group of friends.
Lets continue to improve, to end the note .. I am going to Mr. Ram Reddy's place this weekend and be sure we will win one more guy for FSF !!
We're here to improve our friend ship and talk about freedom. We're, at least I am, even here to help you out with the installation if you get stuck... or probably point you in some direction to get help.
Good luck to you and Mr. Reddy. Do let us know how the installation of Mandrake goes.
Regards
Rishi
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gnu＠vsnl.net -
Rajkumar S -
Rishi -
Tarun Gaur