Suraj Kumar
We definitely have to act against this. What are we going to do?
Instead of crying soar on this list, we can write articles/letters to various newspapers. The articles will have to be backed up with considerable proof/charts & tables that will be hard to ignore.
And we will have to get them into mainstream press. Can you imagine a Director in some ministry reading Slashdot or newsforge. The points that we can point out in favor of Free Software
- We are free to make changes and hence customize it to our needs. We can also audit the software for security flaws and errors.
- Less cost
- Generates employment (as the software needs maintainance, training and modifaction)
- the money of the state/country remains inside the countryy and does not go to foriegen countries
I would also like to respond to a quote from CkRaju (in a different post). He said that
` Someone advised me the other day, that spending time in learning to live with such a condition, would be a much better option, than attempting to challenge or change the views of the 'bureaucracy'. ' Imagine if RMS had said that. Sometimes it just takes one man to make a stand.
Raj Shekhar writes:
Instead of crying soar on this list, we can write articles/letters to various newspapers. The articles will have to be backed up with considerable proof/charts & tables that will be hard to ignore.
yes. I had once written a letter to the editor of the Hindu about the importance of free software and the role it can play in education. It came up. but to what benefit? "doing something about" this, IMVHO, is to be seen as something good by a large population. publishing a mere letter to the editor in a newspaper wouldn't just do. A larger campaign needs to be planned.
- We are free to make changes and hence customize it to our
needs. We can also audit the software for security flaws and errors.
Less cost
Generates employment (as the software needs maintainance,
training and modifaction)
- the money of the state/country remains inside the countryy and
does not go to foriegen countries
All of this means the politicians get to launder lesser money and that means smaller scope for their corruption to flourish. Corruption and the race for power needs to be eliminated without which the benefits of free software would only be a threat to them (the politicians) and hence they would seek quicker ways to eliminate us. More quicker and more desperate than proprietary software giants.
-Suraj
Suraj Kumar wrote:
yes. I had once written a letter to the editor of the Hindu about the importance of free software and the role it can play in education. It came up. but to what benefit?
Maybe a fullscale article would be nice. I am willing to work with you on this. It has been on my mind for some time now. Can you forward me the letter ?
All of this means the politicians get to launder lesser money and that means smaller scope for their corruption to flourish.
I think we always keep underestimating the power of democracy. I am currently working in Synapse, where we have Dr. Gurunandan Bhatt, who was one of the first people to bring GNU/Linux to India. I came to knpw from the people here that he used to go and meet government officers and persuade them to see the light. This was so effective that people from M$ came looking for him to Synapse :-).
Raj Shekhar writes:
Maybe a fullscale article would be nice. I am willing to work with you on this. It has been on my mind for some time now. Can you forward me the letter ?
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2002/11/22/stories/2002112200211001.htm
( Note:
* The editor edited a major part of my letter and removed all references that I had to the GNU Project, importance of sharing software, etc.,. which i think is okay because I was rather straying away from the topic ;)
* Thanks to the mass-memo from fsug-kochi without which I couldn't have given those wonderful statistics.
* The editor has also wrongly replaced the word 'software' with 'softwares'. )
Suraj spake:
All of this means the politicians get to launder lesser money and that means smaller scope for their corruption to flourish. Corruption and the race for power needs to be eliminated without which the benefits of free software would only be a threat to them (the politicians) and hence they would seek quicker ways to eliminate us. More quicker and more desperate than proprietary software giants.
Eliminate? Free Software is irreversible, there won't be me... there won't be you but Free Software is here to stay. _That_ is the power of the movement.
Let us look at things this way... You are Bill Gates from M$ and there are people out there who happily peddle CDs and make software without much financial incentive and things like IP in mind. And moreover you wouldn't know where to attack! All that we do is legal! _That_ is the power of the movement.
We don't market our software, we just put them on the board for others to use as-is. We have more than friendly people who support users old and new. _That_ is the power of the movement.
In India, people are just starting to get aware of what Free Software and GNU/Linux is. Till a couple of years ago the average college grad. didn't know what GNU/Linux is. Today I see people writing TCP/IP suites for processors with diverse architectures. _That_ is the power of the movement.
And how we should bell the Indian Government is another issue that needs serious thinking and strategy. But I'll keep that as another issue. Moral of the story: Things aren't bad as they look. In fact, you and I are just at the cusp of a new wave of happenings.
What do I suggest? Stay the course. You've helped us a lot, and I'll need you even more on the FM board in a few days from now.
Best wishes,
Amol Hatwar.
On Friday 11 April 2003 10:38 am, Suraj Kumar wrote:
All of this means the politicians get to launder lesser money and that means smaller scope for their corruption to flourish. Corruption and the race for power needs to be eliminated without which the benefits of free software would only be a threat to them (the politicians) and hence they would seek quicker ways to eliminate us. More quicker and more desperate than proprietary software giants.
This is my fear, and I suppose this is exactly what is happening behind the scenes. Our country is fast losing true politics and politicians. And we have to deal now with the new generation spies, who work for the betterment of proprietary corporates at the expense of our countrymen.
Looking from the 'other side', this fact also appears to be 'good signals' for multinational corporations, in that they can 'buy anyone' and have 'the views of those corporates' endorsed. Our best of bureaucrats would fall at the small temptation of a sponsored 'foreign trip' and would get all the background work done for the Minister to sign official agreement, 'on behalf of Government' with the proprietary establishments. A look at the list of 'top civil servants' who have gone on 'foreign trips' in the past three years and a re-look at their official views on 'software policy' would throw up interesting revelations. And if any journalist is ready for an 'investigation', the presence of 'Swiss agents' posing as 'donors', would complete the story.
Crying 'shame' can no longer put these 'corrupt officials' into shame, a reason, why I maintain that in the fight between a 'corrupt stand' and an 'ethical stand', inevitably, it would be corrupt stand that would win. (Imagine a two-faced theatre, where one side plays bharathanatyam and the other side features cat-walk with revealing dress, and try to place where the audience would eventually land up.)
CK Raju
CK Raju writes:
This is my fear, and I suppose this is exactly what is happening behind the scenes. Our country is fast losing true politics and politicians. And we have to deal now with the new generation spies, who work for the betterment of proprietary corporates at the expense of our countrymen.
While I think communism is partly a solution to removing proprietary software companies and make it a state-owned affair, the current "trend" of these politicians will make it a worse environment for free software to thrive. They will all the more be interested in acquiring software from foreign companies and launder money. I'm sure communism will not happen in india, given the amount of damage US did to the face of communism by pointing its fingers at badly implemented communism in countries such as the Soviet Union, thanks to Stalin.
-Suraj
On Fri, Apr 11, 2003 at 02:28:43PM +0530, Suraj Kumar wrote:
I'm sure communism will not happen in india, given the amount of damage US did to the face of communism by pointing its fingers at badly implemented communism in countries such as the Soviet Union, thanks to Stalin.
The so-called communist people in Kerala is as worst as other parties, in their attitude towards foreign MNCs/Corporates. They shamelessly change their opinion/deeds if they get their contribution.
Regards
On Friday 11 April 2003 03:13 pm, Dileep M. Kumar wrote:
On Fri, Apr 11, 2003 at 02:28:43PM +0530, Suraj Kumar wrote:
I'm sure communism will not happen in india, given the amount of damage US did to the face of communism by pointing its fingers at badly implemented communism in countries such as the Soviet Union, thanks to Stalin.
The so-called communist people in Kerala is as worst as other parties, in their attitude towards foreign MNCs/Corporates. They shamelessly change their opinion/deeds if they get their contribution.
And to top it all, the IKM project was made to own up by the CPI(M) of Kerala, to send a signal, that the left parties have abandoned their anti-imperialist stand and that they are not against such 'developments'. A lot of the 'left leaders' were made to either 'write' or 'speak' in favour of the same project, a sort of trap laid by the same 'intellectual technical brains' that not only conceived the project, but also, studied the minutest detail of how 'bureaucracy works (both within the political party as well as in government)' to make the 'project', a Government project, or rather in their own words, "a people's project".
This 'project' is now turning out to be the technical base for all other departments, who have to share data with citizen database. This was the 'killing blow' invented by the 'project leaders', subsequently claimed by them to be the world's largest database deployment on MS platforms, wherein, the database needs to be linked with all other prime departments, once accepted by Government, eventually ensuring that all subsequent departmental computerisation would be on MS platforms.
Hence wherever some kind of 'user interface' is planned for computerisation, every technical committee would end up eventually recommending MS. While 'they' would try to silence the dissent, occasionally throwing some 'nuts' like the one Satish Babu mentioned earlier (in a Public Works Dept, which has nothing to do with citizen database), where Free Software would technically be part of some Government project, even if it is to serve the purpose for namesake only, the lion's share is 'reserved' for MS, and that is exactly where the Government of Kerala is heading.
Moreover, since the project was later co-opted by the present Government, this will not be politically challenged in any 'democratic institution' or at any 'democratic forum' and even if it does, the purpose would be to contain the dissenting voices. In my opinion, this can be countered only through public opinion where perhaps 'media' can play a positive role. We can use this list for clarifying our position through discussions, but eventually it has to be followed up by 'action' that can attract the 'media' and 'public conscience'.
CK Raju
Suraj Kumar wrote:
While I think communism is partly a solution to removing proprietary software companies and make it a state-owned affair, the current "trend" of these politicians will make it a worse environment for free software to thrive.
Though this is no place to discuss capitalism & communism, I would like to point out that a very good author on this topic is Ayn Rand. She fled from Russia, settled in USA and hence she could write about both of the philosphies using first hand knowledge. The very idea of communism is wrong. Why should "some one produce according to ones ability and get paid according to his needs."
However lets leave that aside and talk about Indian politicians. Passing laws to make something 'mandatory' is worse. We should be able to show the people that options much better than M$ exist.Not many people know excellent support is available in GNU/Linux. Many still think that we are still stuck in the CLI. How many people in your neighbourhood know about OpenOffice, TeX? A few people were shocked when I told them that some quite competent pfellows hang around on LUG mailing lists and jobs recruitment can be done on LUGs.(happily they have agreed to try to use it next time,lets hope) People should know about something's existence before they can use it.
I think spreading the word should be our first priority. Putting out articles in magazines, newspapers, conferences, college magazines should not be looked upon as unnecessary
Though this is no place to discuss capitalism & communism, I would like to point out that a very good author on this topic is Ayn Rand. She fled
fully off topic.
Passing laws to make something 'mandatory' is worse. We should be able to show the people that options much better than M$ exist.Not many people know excellent support is available in GNU/Linux. Many still
I think that proprietary software is harmful to society. I support passing any law which favour society. Law against Software patents and proprietary software are some of them.
Arun.
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Amol Hatwar -
Arun M -
Arun M -
CK Raju -
Dileep M. Kumar -
Raj Shekhar -
Suraj Kumar