Hi,
The answer given by FSF India on the question "Is FSF planning to start local chapters in every state?" is shocking. Why is FSF India trying to divide the existing commitee with this sort of approach.What they should be ideally doing is to encourage setting up of local chapters and strengthening the movement. But with this sort of stand and approach they are in fact killing the movement, killing the enthu among the people who are a part of the movement. Stating that " FSF India is not a mass organisation" is itself in contradiction to what the founder of Free Software Movement, Mr. Richard's speaks, that of majority of people using and evangelising free software.
It would be better if the people who frame these should be in sync with what the majority of the community thinks rather than act in an aristocratic manner.
Vijay Chandra
Why is FSF India trying to divide the existing commitee with this sort of approach.What they should be ideally doing is to encourage setting up of local chapters and strengthening the movement. But with this sort of stand and approach they are in fact killing the movement, killing the enthu among the people who are a part of the movement. Stating that " FSF India is not a mass organisation" is itself in contradiction to what the founder of Free Software Movement, Mr. Richard's speaks, that of majority of people using and evangelising free software.
FSF is not Free Software Movement. FSF and its sister organisations tries to give leadership to free software movement.
FSF India would be announcing a policy on local organisations. We do understand the need for local communities. There again rather than creating new communities it is better if we can work with local free software user groups and other organisations working for the promotion of free software philosophy. . Also note that being a sister organisations of FSF, FSF India has to follow policies of FSF. If we dont do that we wont be 'FSF India' but something else. There are some basic principles under which FSF recognised FSF India as a sister organisation. It is not possible to change that.
Some of our friends may have different view how FSF India's organisations setup be. I respect those view. They are free to take their own steps to correct the action. May be a new organisation based on millions of members and elected representatives. Yes, you may be right. You are free to do that. And all of us can work together. Let there be 1000 more organisations to promote free software. We just needs to be watchful of whether these organisations are helping community or sabotaging it from with in.
As long as one is promoting philosophy of free software why should we worry about which label which organisation which colour!
Words from Gitanjali coming back to mind.
"Where knowledge is free Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls"
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 6:47 PM, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
FSF is not Free Software Movement. FSF and its sister organisations tries to give leadership to free software movement.
Unfortunately, thats not what the community seems to understand these days. The leadership is expected to step ahead to lead the movement, but not to stand behind the people working for the movement and work as a body that says 'this-is-so-wrong-this-is-no-right' and feel that the 'direction' is given.
Also note that being a sister organisations of FSF, FSF India has to follow policies of FSF.
I spent some time finding these, but couldn't see anything. [probably i was expecting transparency ...oops]
Let there be 1000 more organisations to promote free software.
We just needs to be watchful of whether these organisations are helping community or sabotaging it from with in.
I don't know if more organizations promoting free software would sabotage the community or not, but I feel that the kind of views the FAQs seem to put forth (which I must now understand is going to be different from what the board members/employees think/say) is going to sabotage the Free software community in India.
Words from Gitanjali coming back to mind.
"Where knowledge is free Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic walls"
Thats what he said then, and now today we say "Let there be 1000 more organisations ...."?? I know. This might not be double-speak as I used to think earlier.
Democracy cannot be achieved without democratic procedures. A movement like Free Software movement should be based on mass support and mass involvement. One can't deny that because, well, thats how its been working and thats how it will work too. What motivated activists like me to join and work for free software is the very fact that its a mass based movement. The charkha (which coincidentally is part of FSF-I logo) signifies the masses that used it to participate in the Freedom movement in India, which was again a mass movement.
"FSF" might not be "FSM" literally, but I hope FSF is not dissociating itself from FSM. Thats not leadership, thats gonna break our hearts.
-- Sarath M S
sarath ms sarath.ms@gmail.com wrote:
"FSF" might not be "FSM" literally, but I hope FSF is not dissociating itself from FSM. Thats not leadership, thats gonna break our hearts.
Umm, please leave Gods from this. :p
On 29/11/2008, Arun M arun@gnu.org.in wrote:
Why is FSF India trying to divide the existing commitee with this sort of approach.What they should be ideally doing is to encourage setting up of local chapters and strengthening the movement. But with this sort of stand and approach they are in fact killing the movement, killing the enthu among the people who are a part of the movement. Stating that " FSF India is not a mass organisation" is itself in contradiction to what the founder of Free Software Movement, Mr. Richard's speaks, that of majority of people using and evangelising free software.
FSF is not Free Software Movement. FSF and its sister organisations tries to give leadership to free software movement.
The proper approach should be to work at adding more practical usability to free software and letting more and more people become aware of "why free software ". An approach I would suggest is to at least keep away internal politics and personal grudges if any and concentrate on our single grudge that is denying of the technology freedom by all proprietory organisations and create unified policies that help the cause of our freedom. All my friends and fellow hackers are so focused on the very freedom movement and the ways to achieve it, I think we have to send that same signal to outsiders including proprietory organisations that "we are one, our goal is one and we will achieve it " and not "we have different goals and won't really care ". Idea of Arun is perfect and I believe that there is only one thing we all would be afraid of and that is a sabotage of the technology freedom at the hands of disguised proprietory selfish bennifit makers.
FSF India would be announcing a policy on local organisations. We do understand the need for local communities. There again rather than creating new communities it is better if we can work with local free software user groups and other organisations working for the promotion of free software philosophy. .Yes indeed. This is a good step arun, For one thing there are people all over the place who would extend their support for this idea.
For example if such a policy is declared, I will be amongst the first to take the opportunity here in Maharashtra. As I said we have to make people aware of how freedom is being denyed to them by others and the practical aspect of technology freedom which must have now become clear due to some posts of Renukaprasad who quoted RMS from some of his chapters. So people might have their own views and there is no harm in it as long as they don't attack or damage the free software movement and its goals.
Also note that being a sister organisations of FSF, FSF India has to follow policies of FSF. If we dont do that we wont be 'FSF India' but something else. There are some basic principles under which FSF recognised FSF India as a sister organisation. It is not possible to change that.
Some of our friends may have different view how FSF India's organisations setup be. I respect those view. They are free to take their own steps to correct the action. May be a new organisation based on millions of members and elected representatives. Yes, you may be right. You are free to do that. And all of us can work together. Let there be 1000 more organisations to promote free software. We just needs to be watchful of whether these organisations are helping community or sabotaging it from with in.
Indeed, I second arun's idea with another example. This is to do with FSF and FSM itself. We all know that the 4 principles of free software can be governed and defended with the help of GPL. That's true, many free softwares are licenced under GPL. but what about those softwares which are under other licenses which are called "GPL complying ". There are so many software licenses which come under that category but the software is still called "free and open source?" So similarly there can be more organisations which truely support free software but are not FSFI or FSF sister organisations for that matter.
As long as one is promoting philosophy of free software why should we worry about which label which organisation which colour!
Exactly infact I feel that the best way of having our own personal views and still work for the noble cause is to have different organisations and still work on a common goal, while the pathes may be different or may be policies different. The only thing as arun said is to watchout for sabotaj. We all have seen for last 3 days how different organisations like NSG, Police and Marin camandos together fought the terror strike. They are different organisations which work differently but the aim was just to liberate Mumbai. Not just this, different organisations can even help FSFI to offshore the overload they have on themselves. For example with my given expertese in FOSS related accessibility training and employment, I might like to have an organisation which helps FSF in the field of only handicap. So I am free to have my views on it as long as I don't get waisted interests inside to kill the movement. Again all these suggestions are my personal and not of FSFI. Of course they are copy left and so FSFI is free to agree and use them as serious ideas. Only don't forget that "it was kk's idea ha?"*smile*. happy hacking. KK
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Arun M -
krishnakant Mane -
Sajith T S -
sarath ms -
vijay reddy