dear friends
local chapters are you saying that FSF-I should run like its run in Europe, Americas? that means we are trying to force solutions meant for other countries to that of ours! in order to have more people (in general terms we call "mass base") FSF-I must have local chapters. I mean considering your own views Just see the number of population in indian states they are as equal in population to that in each country in europe, this clearly shows the importance of having local chapters.
On an average I think people sleep for 6 hours else if a person sleeps for months and years together, wake up a fine morning find themselves in losing there control over the foundation, obviously it makes them irritated, uncomfortable and the consequence is FAQ's in gnu.org. You people didn't even bother inform organisations that are mentioned in the FAQ's.
board of directors When is the so called Board of Directors going to so called NOMINATE there new Board? most of the current board of directors are the same onces who are there since its inception which needs a change. (well power and control over FSF-I need to change) for everything that is old has to go and something new will always come into place and this transition dosn't happen smoothly.
Well as the mails start poring in and that board of directors feel that they are baring the peoples quest for clarity, they are actually undermining the larger interest of the people. And to say "when you have a responsibility you don't bare things or say "patiently replying", rather you need to understand the pulse of the people".
How long can you guys go on dictating terms like this?
who can speak on behalf of fsf india?
ha thats such a big joke. first you say that what ever the fsf-i board members say becomes the stand of fsf-i and then you say that fsf-i board will discuss it first and then say that "ITS THE BOARDS DECISSION". Well I need some more clarity the mails that arun, sasi and nagarjuna have mailed to this mailing list, are they the official stand and official statements of FSF-I? or are they just some personal views? Why do you guys make the rules and then break them? (by going on your own words "WE THE *BOARD OF DIRECTORS FSF INDIA* have the only right to dictate) i haven't seen any of you guys mention weather the statement that you are making is an official stand of fsf-i or its just personal views.
other than the mention of "For instance, this FAQ is a statement from the Board." in the page that is on the gnu.org.in website there is no mention of it any were else.
For instance http://www.google.com/search?q=satement+from+the+board+inurl%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2F...
when people at the top look bellow there feet they find lilliputs. When these lilliputs come face to face they suddenly become big, this is called as mass base and this mass base has to be organised in a democratic way.
I am proud to be in a democratic country were i can express my views freely. I want that freedom back to the very organisation which i believed for and trusted for so many years has motivated and kept me free from escapism, opportunism.
with love for freedom ajay kumar
dear friends a small correction
On an average I think people sleep for 6 hours else if a person sleeps for months and years together, wake up a fine morning find themselves in losing there control over the foundation, obviously it makes them irritated, uncomfortable and the consequence is FAQ's in gnu.org. You people didn't even bother inform organisations that are mentioned in the FAQ's.
in the above statement its gnu.org.in and gnu.org.
with love for freedom ajay kumar
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:57 PM, ajay kumar freeajju@gmail.com wrote:
dear friends
with love for freedom ajay kumar
Dear Ajay,
Your stupidity might be a gift from God. But that is not a good enough reason to misuse it and display it in public forums.
hi sandeep
The issue is not about being stupid but about knowing certain points.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:47 PM, sandeep sr sandeep.sr78@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 4:57 PM, ajay kumar freeajju@gmail.com wrote:
dear friends
with love for freedom ajay kumar
Dear Ajay,
Your stupidity might be a gift from God. But that is not a good enough reason to misuse it and display it in public forums.
-- Sandeep
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:27 PM, ajay kumar freeajju@gmail.com wrote:
dear friends
local chapters are you saying that FSF-I should run like its run in Europe, Americas? that means we are trying to force solutions meant for other countries to that of ours! in order to have more people (in general terms we call "mass base") FSF-I must have local chapters. I mean considering your own views Just see the number of population in indian states they are as equal in population to that in each country in europe, this clearly shows the importance of having local chapters.
FSFE did not appear without the user groups. We do not even have user gruops, why talk of chapters. When we have more people, and activities increase we can all decide to form a chapter. If such a need arises, we can amend our decisions.
board of directors When is the so called Board of Directors going to so called NOMINATE there new Board? most of the current board of directors are the same onces who are there since its inception which needs a change. (well power and control over FSF-I need to change)
From what you wrote above, it is very clear that you do not even know
the facts.
Nagarjuna
dear friends
Q: Are the below replies officially from FSF-I or are they nagarjuna's own opinions?
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Nagarjuna G. nagarjun@gnowledge.orgwrote:
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:27 PM, ajay kumar freeajju@gmail.com wrote:
dear friends
local chapters are you saying that FSF-I should run like its run in Europe, Americas?
that
means we are trying to force solutions meant for other countries to that
of
ours! in order to have more people (in general terms we call "mass base") FSF-I must have local chapters. I mean considering your own views Just
see
the number of population in indian states they are as equal in population
to
that in each country in europe, this clearly shows the importance of
having
local chapters.
FSFE did not appear without the user groups. We do not even have user gruops, why talk of chapters. When we have more people, and activities increase we can all decide to form a chapter. If such a need arises, we can amend our decisions.
I thought you would reply with some links to the lists or user groups in europe and that in india so that we could have had a comparision. alas you didn't.
Its ok i will do it for you.
Well this list of user groups and communities that i am listing out may give an insite into the lenth and breadth of the free software and linux user groups in india. I do admit that free software dosn't encorage listing lug's but as FSF-I i think we can change them to glug's or free software groups this list also includes irc channels. can we consider irc's as groups?
http://wikiwikiweb.de/LugsList (119 groups roughly) [thanks FN for listing the groups]
http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/Linux/User_Gr...
Well this list also consists of groups that are there in asia, africa and latin america too but that section is hardly 25% of the wiki page.
These are the lists of groups that include lugs, glugs, fsugs in europe.
http://www.linuxlinks.com/UserGroups/Europe/United_Kingdom/ (90 groups roughly) http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/Linux/User_Gr... http://www.on-the-web.ch/linux/lug.html
Well the links that i took may or may not be authentic. But that dosn't stop us from assuming the wide spread of free software.
I don't think the number of activists in the groups of europe have outnumbered than that of indian groups.
to get things more clear. http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-user-groups.html
How many groups and activists should be there in order to form a chapter?
board of directors When is the so called Board of Directors going to so called NOMINATE
there
new Board? most of the current board of directors are the same onces who are there since its inception which needs a change. (well power and control over
FSF-I
need to change)
I want to specifically mentions my about question here Q: Are the below replies officially from FSF-I or are they nagarjuna's own opinions?
From what you wrote above, it is very clear that you do not even know the facts.
Nagarjuna
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 22:27 +0530, ajay kumar wrote:
local chapters are you saying that FSF-I should run like its run in Europe, Americas?
No. We are saying that FSFI should not run as in Europe, for example. FSF Europe has a chapter in each country because the situation in each country is different and that cannot be tackled by a single body. So they have chapters in the member countries. India is a single country and FSFI works closely with FSUGs etc. which serves the purpose of local chapters.
that means we are trying to force solutions meant for other countries to that of ours! in order to have more people (in general terms we call "mass base") FSF-I must have local chapters. I mean considering your own views Just see the number of population in indian states they are as equal in population to that in each country in europe, this clearly shows the importance of having local chapters.
We don't distribute chapters (or FFSUGs, for that matter) based on population. It depends on the extent of local initiative and interest. People have been talking about "the importance of local chapters", but no one seems to be giving any logical argument to support it. Why don't you try, Ajay Kumar?
On an average I think people sleep for 6 hours else if a person sleeps for months and years together, wake up a fine morning find themselves in losing there control over the foundation, obviously it makes them irritated, uncomfortable and the consequence is FAQ's in gnu.org.
I am happy to learn that FAQ's are written by people who sleep for months and years. Maybe you know all that because you too have written FAQs. Oh, I forgot. People write FAQs when they are irritated and uncomfortable. Are you sure that otherwise people cannot write FAQs?
You people didn't even bother inform organisations that are mentioned in the FAQ's.
What is it that we did not bother to inform these organisations? Which are the organisations?
board of directors When is the so called Board of Directors going to so called NOMINATE there new Board?
Of course, that will be decided by the so called Board. It seems so called Ajay Kumar is becoming irritated and uncomfortable. Hope you will write a so called FAQ soon.
most of the current board of directors are the same onces who are there since its inception which needs a change.
Sure. You are free to have your opinion.
(well power and control over FSF-I need to change)
I see. So you have been looking for some power and control over FSFI? Here is another cat that has jumped out of the bag!
for everything that is old has to go and something new will always come into place and this transition dosn't happen smoothly.
My! My! What erudition! So let us have a revolution. Call the troops! Send all the bourgeoisie to Siberia.
Well as the mails start poring in and that board of directors feel that they are baring the peoples quest for clarity, they are actually undermining the larger interest of the people. And to say "when you have a responsibility you don't bare things or say "patiently replying", rather you need to understand the pulse of the people".
Right Sir! We are going on a campaign to determine the pulse of the people. Do we take doctors with us?
How long can you guys go on dictating terms like this?
mmmm. Good question. Personally, I am willing to continue for another five years or so. Could even be more. I don't know about the others.
who can speak on behalf of fsf india?
ha thats such a big joke.
You mean, speaking on behalf of FSF India?
first you say that what ever the fsf-i board members say becomes the stand of fsf-i and then you say that fsf-i board will discuss it first and then say that "ITS THE BOARDS DECISSION". Well I need some more clarity the mails that arun, sasi and nagarjuna have mailed to this mailing list, are they the official stand and official statements of FSF-I? or are they just some personal views? Why do you guys make the rules and then break them? (by going on your own words "WE THE *BOARD OF DIRECTORS FSF INDIA* have the only right to dictate) i haven't seen any of you guys mention weather the statement that you are making is an official stand of fsf-i or its just personal views.
Please do remember that you are making serious allegations in the mail that you are mailing to this mailing list and that you could be open to litigation. Not that I am going to sue you. I am really enjoying the mail. Haven't read such a hilarious mail for quite some time.
other than the mention of "For instance, this FAQ is a statement from the Board." in the page that is on the gnu.org.in website there is no mention of it any were else.
For instance http://www.google.com/search?q=satement+from+the+board+inurl%3Ahttp%3A %2F%2Fmm.gnu.org.in%2Fpipermail%2Ffsf-friends% 2F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a
when people at the top look bellow there feet they find lilliputs. When these lilliputs come face to face they suddenly become big, this is called as mass base and this mass base has to be organised in a democratic way.
I am proud to be in a democratic country were i can express my views freely. I want that freedom back to the very organisation which i believed for and trusted for so many years has motivated and kept me free from escapism, opportunism.
Oh, I never thought that FSF India has such achievements to its credit! Really wonderful, I should say! Kept you free from escapism and opportunism, you say? Thank you for sharing that with us.
Best
dear friends and sasi
Well I may be a bit strong on my points, what i a trying to ask is that will the Free Software ideology be promoted in this same manner as it used to be when first conference of fsfs happend, when sessions in tifr, parts of kerala and other places or will it change?
Q: Are the below replies officially from FSF-I or are they sasi's own opinions?
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:13 AM, V. Sasi Kumar sasi.fsf@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 22:27 +0530, ajay kumar wrote:
local chapters are you saying that FSF-I should run like its run in Europe, Americas?
No. We are saying that FSFI should not run as in Europe, for example. FSF Europe has a chapter in each country because the situation in each country is different and that cannot be tackled by a single body. So they have chapters in the member countries. India is a single country and FSFI works closely with FSUGs etc. which serves the purpose of local chapters.
I think i replied that in nagarjuna's mail.
that means we are trying to force solutions meant for other countries to that of ours! in order to have more people (in general terms we call "mass base") FSF-I must have local chapters. I mean considering your own views Just see the number of population in indian states they are as equal in population to that in each country in europe, this clearly shows the importance of having local chapters.
We don't distribute chapters (or FFSUGs, for that matter) based on population. It depends on the extent of local initiative and interest. People have been talking about "the importance of local chapters", but no one seems to be giving any logical argument to support it. Why don't you try, Ajay Kumar?
Well i think i have even answered this query too in nagarjuna's mails and that is my own personal opinion. I also gave logical argument to support my views with some facts in the form of links.
On an average I think people sleep for 6 hours else if a person sleeps for months and years together, wake up a fine morning find themselves in losing there control over the foundation, obviously it makes them irritated, uncomfortable and the consequence is FAQ's in gnu.org.
I am happy to learn that FAQ's are written by people who sleep for months and years. Maybe you know all that because you too have written FAQs. Oh, I forgot. People write FAQs when they are irritated and uncomfortable. Are you sure that otherwise people cannot write FAQs?
sorry but your reply didn't answer my comment. between sorry for the typo in gnu.org it must be gnu.org.in.
You people didn't even bother inform organisations that are mentioned in the FAQ's.
What is it that we did not bother to inform these organisations? Which are the organisations?
Well i think being a board member and one the person's who has drafted the FAQ's you should know the organisations. didn't you? well if you want me to list i will do that for you.
board of directors When is the so called Board of Directors going to so called NOMINATE there new Board?
Of course, that will be decided by the so called Board. It seems so called Ajay Kumar is becoming irritated and uncomfortable. Hope you will write a so called FAQ soon.
Well i have no intention or idea of writing FAQ's but i am sure that if i do a mistake i will surly and promptly apologies for the mistake not only that i will not REPEAT the mistake and do not sideline a movement. Well i am not write a FAQ but i will surly write a blog.
most of the current board of directors are the same onces who are there since its inception which needs a change.
Sure. You are free to have your opinion.
(well power and control over FSF-I need to change)
I see. So you have been looking for some power and control over FSFI? Here is another cat that has jumped out of the bag!
for everything that is old has to go and something new will always come into place and this transition dosn't happen smoothly.
My! My! What erudition! So let us have a revolution. Call the troops! Send all the bourgeoisie to Siberia.
Well that is basics of science, I don't know were did bourgeoisie and siberia came from.
You are a scientist and i assume you understand basics of science.
Well as the mails start poring in and that board of directors feel that they are baring the peoples quest for clarity, they are actually undermining the larger interest of the people. And to say "when you have a responsibility you don't bare things or say "patiently replying", rather you need to understand the pulse of the people".
Right Sir! We are going on a campaign to determine the pulse of the people. Do we take doctors with us?
Well again being an well read and respected person responding in a silly way. not doctors but activists. How many activists dos FSF-I has? do you have a rough count?
The search gives me these links and sorry not taking permission from FSF-I to use the content from its gnu.org.in's website.
http://www.gnu.org.in/search?SearchableText=activists
The closest that i can get is this link. which has a mention of ONE full time member from the website
from the website: "Currently FSF India has an office in Thiruvananthapuram with only one full time employee"
http://www.gnu.org.in/associate-fellowship-of-fsf-india/?searchterm=activist...
and a small update about the page. The hyper link "Why we exist" dosn't exist. http://www.gnu.org.in/purpose
May be it is getting updated. or may be it dosn't exist at all.
How long can you guys go on dictating terms like this?
mmmm. Good question. Personally, I am willing to continue for another five years or so. Could even be more. I don't know about the others.
That's nice and at last i see a personal oppinion.
who can speak on behalf of fsf india?
ha thats such a big joke.
You mean, speaking on behalf of FSF India?
no
first you say that what ever the fsf-i board members say becomes the stand of fsf-i and then you say that fsf-i board will discuss it first and then say that "ITS THE BOARDS DECISSION". Well I need some more clarity the mails that arun, sasi and nagarjuna have mailed to this mailing list, are they the official stand and official statements of FSF-I? or are they just some personal views? Why do you guys make the rules and then break them? (by going on your own words "WE THE *BOARD OF DIRECTORS FSF INDIA* have the only right to dictate) i haven't seen any of you guys mention weather the statement that you are making is an official stand of fsf-i or its just personal views.
Please do remember that you are making serious allegations in the mail that you are mailing to this mailing list and that you could be open to litigation. Not that I am going to sue you. I am really enjoying the mail. Haven't read such a hilarious mail for quite some time.
then why don't you answer the question when you enjoy reading it?
other than the mention of "For instance, this FAQ is a statement from the Board." in the page that is on the gnu.org.in website there is no mention of it any were else.
For instance http://www.google.com/search?q=satement+from+the+board+inurl%3Ahttp%3A %2F%2Fmm.gnu.org.in%2Fpipermail%2Ffsf-friends%
2F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a
when people at the top look bellow there feet they find lilliputs. When these lilliputs come face to face they suddenly become big, this is called as mass base and this mass base has to be organised in a democratic way.
I am proud to be in a democratic country were i can express my views freely. I want that freedom back to the very organisation which i believed for and trusted for so many years has motivated and kept me free from escapism, opportunism.
Oh, I never thought that FSF India has such achievements to its credit! Really wonderful, I should say! Kept you free from escapism and opportunism, you say? Thank you for sharing that with us.
Well i still see that answerable people here are becoming kid's as the conversation is advacing.
Best
V. Sasi Kumar Free Software Foundation of India http://swatantryam.blogspot.com
2008/11/30 ajay kumar freeajju@gmail.com:
dear friends
Dear Ajay,
Welcome to Free Software community (or I don't seem to remember seeing your mails in any of the lists I subscribe to - at least for the lists I'm a member you are new).
I'm happy to see so many of new members joining and actively participating in serious discussions.
local chapters are you saying that FSF-I should run like its run in Europe, Americas? that means we are trying to force solutions meant for other countries to that of ours! in order to have more people (in general terms we call "mass base") FSF-I must have local chapters. I mean considering your own views Just see the number of population in indian states they are as equal in population to that in each country in europe, this clearly shows the importance of having local chapters.
IMHO, FSUGs across the country will provide more decentralized way of reaching masses. I think Nagarjuna and others stressed this point earlier. I appreciate your enthusiasm to get the message of Freedom to the masses. I would like to ask you to join a local user group, if you have not done it yet. Where are you based out of? Is there a Free Software User Group there? If not are you interested in opening a new user group in your locality? May be as a first step you can meet with your friends and discuss about it. If you announce it here, anyone from that part of the country may be able to join you.
On an average I think people sleep for 6 hours else if a person sleeps for months and years together, wake up a fine morning find themselves in losing there control over the foundation, obviously it makes them irritated, uncomfortable and the consequence is FAQ's in gnu.org. You people didn't even bother inform organisations that are mentioned in the FAQ's.
So are you repeating the hijack theory again? Do you support the hijack theory? Doesn't "losing there control over the foundation" amount to hijacking? Are you suggesting the conspiracy theory of hijacking FSF India real? On the contrary to your observation, what I saw was a patient response from FSF India in clarifying each and every question raised and engaging in positive conversation. I am sure FSF India would focus more on supporting and working together with FSUGs across the country now that more people are asking for Free Software community presence in more parts of the country. I hope you would join in this effort and help reach the message of Freedom to the masses.
board of directors When is the so called Board of Directors going to so called NOMINATE there new Board?
As Nagarjuna asked Vikram, do you have someone in mind? Who do you think should be nominated to the the board from the working group?
All the working group members are here. http://www.gnu.org.in/about-fsf-india/whos-who
Also who do you suggest the new people for the working group. Let us see what the community feels about your nominations and see if FSF India accept them. I hope you will give a try.
most of the current board of directors are the same onces who are there since its inception which needs a change. (well power and control over FSF-I need to change)
Again are you repeating the hijack theory? As I wrote earlier, can you suggest new names from the community? Obviously you need to support your nominations with arguments and show the record of the people you are proposing.
for everything that is old has to go and something new will always come into place and this transition dosn't happen smoothly.
It does not have to be confrontational from the start. Give a try.
Well as the mails start poring in and that board of directors feel that they are baring the peoples quest for clarity, they are actually undermining the larger interest of the people. And to say "when you have a responsibility you don't bare things or say "patiently replying", rather you need to understand the pulse of the people".
Well, it is not as simple as you think. It is easy to just criticize. An organization like FSF India needs to discuss and it will take time. Considering the time it took to come up with FAQ, I don't think it was slow. Patience is a virtue.
How long can you guys go on dictating terms like this?
For a change now you already started dictating. FSF India should do this, do that ...
who can speak on behalf of fsf india?
It is already explained clearly in the FAQ. If you are just hoping it be different, I am sorry.
ha thats such a big joke. first you say that what ever the fsf-i board members say becomes the stand of fsf-i and then you say that fsf-i board will discuss it first and then say that "ITS THE BOARDS DECISSION". Well I need some more clarity the mails that arun, sasi and nagarjuna have mailed to this mailing list, are they the official stand and official statements of FSF-I? or are they just some personal views?
"8. Who can speak on behalf of FSF India?
The Secretary is normally the official spokesperson of FSF India. But any member of the Board may speak on behalf of the Foundation. However, it may be noted that such statements by any member of the Board, including the Secretary, may be considered as the official statement of the Board only if it is specifically mentioned so."
Doesn't that explains what you are asking for?
Why do you guys make the rules and then break them? (by going on your own words "WE THE *BOARD OF DIRECTORS FSF INDIA* have the only right to dictate) i haven't seen any of you guys mention weather the statement that you are making is an official stand of fsf-i or its just personal views.
It would have taken quite a bit of effort from your side to get "right to dictate", judging from the number of people coming up with dictatorial suggestions. Did you thought it would be so easy? You just have to stare and FSF India and the Free Software community would look away?
other than the mention of "For instance, this FAQ is a statement from the Board." in the page that is on the gnu.org.in website there is no mention of it any were else.
You would have done quite a bit of research to discover this. Good work.
For instance http://www.google.com/search?q=satement+from+the+board+inurl%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2F...
Hey its just so cool you are using iceweasel. I too use it.
when people at the top look bellow there feet they find lilliputs. When these lilliputs come face to face they suddenly become big, this is called as mass base and this mass base has to be organised in a democratic way.
May be you can help us understand how to do this by explaining how you did it. There is something to learn from everyone.
I am proud to be in a democratic country were i can express my views freely. I want that freedom back to the very organisation which i believed for and trusted for so many years has motivated and kept me free from escapism, opportunism.
Great to have known someone so passionate. It is really motivating.
with love for freedom ajay kumar
Cheers Praveen
-
ajay kumar -
Nagarjuna G. -
Praveen A -
sandeep sr -
V. Sasi Kumar