Fsf-friends May 2004

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

23 participants
43 discussions

FREE SOFTWARE THAT IS GOOD ...
by Tarun Gaur 07 May '04

07 May '04

Hi harish, You are missing the point here again. It is not the words that matter. I, like you also believe that software has to be free but i strongly contest the fact that people who do not embrace it dont matter to us. They do matter and we have to make them understand why FREEDOM, FREE software and FREE GOOD SOFTWARE (is important). Just because we believe in freedom does not mean that we do not listen to what they have to say. Now, Please read my previous note again and tell me where i have said that end user is unintelligent, does not understand or does not value freedom .... The very fact that he is intelligent is an indication enough for us to convince him rather than show "I dont care, they will learn by themselves" attitude. We need to educate - rather make them aware; of our philosophy and i am sure each one of them feels as strongly for Freedom as you and I do. Sometimes as an analyst you have to keep yourself away from your own beliefs and philosophies and try and compare and criticize what you think might not be correct ... And here what i feel is that we need to value the opinion of " Intelligent end users" and be our own ciritics at every point as that would help us plug the holes and evolve. You took the discussion to "Intellectual Property Rights" and Free Software and morals and ethics of it. I think we all ... we all understand freedom, FSF and Free software very well. As per me the entire IT community put togather is not more than 2% of the world's population. We need to come out of the technical closet and think about the rest 98% of the world and how we can make them adopt our philosophy and software. And trust me for that, we dont have a choice ... WE HAVE TO BE GOOD and we are good, then why not be supportive rather than being dismissive to the "Intelligent End Users". I can also say ... I like Free Software because .... Reason 1 ...... to Reason 100. But i dont because i am more concerned and focussed to see that Free Software Philosophy penetrates to the masses. Once it does, you will see it everywhere. I again highlight; whenever we see someone saying that I have a problem with Free Software ... rather than shooting the guns at him, ask him if we could help restore his faith and then go and help him. This is in the best interest of our philosophy, cause philosophies are duds without followers. Remember, It is not you and me that decides what is good ... it is the majority and the facts. We are good, brilliant people ... we write amazing codes ... we just need to make them a bit more simple. We are doing it slowly but surely. I am not contesting here on Freedom or good or bad. I am contesting that we cant ignore 210 million people and more. We need to make them understand, enlighten them, educate them and we cant do this by shooing them away. In the proprietry world, companies like IBM, RED HAT and numberless others used Free Software Fundamentals to manouvere against Microsoft and another entry is Novell. Now these companies are also people and look at how others and Red Hat moved to take a big market share, riding on open source. What are we doing sitting and allowing them to manouvere and criticizing people cause they say that free software evangelists are deaf if not dumb. Its a simple thing friends, entertain criticizm, consult, discuss and do something about it; even if it means contesting RMS opinion. He sure started it but its freedom what it is all about .. right? Bottomline, BECOME A MASS MAJORITY RATHER THAN PHILOSOPHICAL MINORITY. hail FSF, tarun _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/

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Good FREEDOM Software
by Tarun Gaur 07 May '04

07 May '04

Hi Dr. Nagarjuna, Sorry for being a bit late in replying but let me add to Rishi's compliment that you write well and are very articulate in expressing your thoughts. I believe that you agree with me that over all we should attempt to write "good freedom software". Now by being focussed on what "good" means here you have asked a very Macro question because you, me and all our friends know that "GOOD" means different things to different people. Its an extremely relative term. Still I will try to answer your question in a very generic way and in total lay man jargon ... According to me ... 1. a software is good if it helps me achieve desired set of functional tasks with minimum focus on technicalities (end user perspective) 2. a software is better if it helps me achieve desired set of functional tasks with minimum focus on technicalities and is extremely pleasing to work with through consistent interfaces (end user perspective) 3. a software is best if it helps me achieve desired set of functional tasks with minimum focus on technicalities, is extremely pleasing to work with through consistent interfaces, has a definite growth plan, manovers to incorporate best industry practices and APPEALS TO THE MASSES. Now ... i redefine the definition of a good software here ... a good software is that tends towards the best with a plan to be the best. Over and above that, if it is FREE; masses would embrace it instantly. Dr. Nagarjun, in that case your, my and FSFs beliefs of FREEDOM SOFTWARE are realized to its full potential. I stress ... the POTENTIAL exists. If our software wins, our philosophy wins. I am not saying that we are not getting there. I stress ... We have taken giant strides in recent years. But there is a lot to be done. You may show some features and tell me that the issues i have highlighed in above points are there to some/great extent in freedom software, still my experience with end user says otherwise. I repeat ... Good to Great ... cause there is a lot to be done. On software front as well as promoting the philosophy. I was sad at seeing the reaction to a small mail from an end user "Rammanohar Reddy" with some of our friends saying it does not matter to FSF on what he or any other end user has to say on Free software/Linux. It does matter ... Friends philosophies die without mass support and appeal. Though CLASSES are using the FREE Software, still we are far away from MASSES. Statistics support what i mean. Windows XP: 210 Million Copies Sold http://www.forbes.com/business/businesstech/newswire/2004/05/03/rtr1356086.… Now my question is ... do these 210 Million people who might have bought this software dont matter to us? Some would say they dont. I would say they do. We could make them switch by helping them. another question: How many of them have heard about us and our philosophy? another question: If they have heard, How many would switch? If Yes, why and if not, why not? another question: Are they paying for the software because they hate us and our philosophy? I will answer this one - they are paying cause they dont have an option. Give them an option and trust me friends they would switch. If you think you have already given them an option then explain them your options. "I dont care attitude" does not help. 210 million people are 209 million too many to ignore. Atleast for me. Microsofts mention triggers a useless defensive reaction from a lot of our friends at FSF and elsewhere too. I am yet to understand why? We could take a leaf out from their research on customers and the expectations. I repeat FREEDOM matters, does it stop us from evolving and improving. I have said this before, i will say it again and again and again ... LETS TURN FROM A PHILOSOPHICAL MINORITY TO A MASS MAJORITY. There is a lot of work to be done. I am sure Dr. Nagarjuna is doing his part, Rishi is doing his part and i am doing mine. Lets write Good FREEDOM software. P.S. Dr. Nagarjuna and friends i assume we understand what do Masses and Classes mean. Hail FSF, Tarun ================== IF NOT I, THEN WHO? IF NOT NOW, THEN WHEN? ================== _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/dir…

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Freedom matters - So does good software !!
by Tarun Gaur 07 May '04

07 May '04

Hi Anurag, I totally agree with you that free software can be made easy to use. I am infact not in favor of writing any software that is a nightmare to work with. That is the reason i initiated this debate by forwarding a mail from an end user to the list. Does RMS ever say that Free software should not be designed to be easy to use? i doubt. Infact we all know that Freedom matters, Free Free Free ... Lets get over with the basics and get our heads down to write good FREE software. We have the Freedom and we promote it too. .. And the world has heard us loud and clear. They say the DEVIL LIES IN THE DETAILS ... So its useless to talk about freedom and free software without backing it up with good software. We have come this far with good work. Lets just keep on doing the good work and not pay a deaf ear to end user's perspective. hail the spirit of FSF regards, tarun -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WORRY NOT ON WHAT HAS BEEN DONE, WORRY ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. FOR EVOLUTION IS NOT WHAT EXISTS, IT IS WHAT WE DO WITH WHAT EXISTS. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: fsf-discuss-request(a)mm.gnu.org.in >Reply-To: fsf-discuss(a)mm.gnu.org.in >To: fsf-discuss(a)mm.gnu.org.in >Subject: Fsf-discuss Digest, Vol 7, Issue 1 >Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 12:00:43 +0530 > >Send Fsf-discuss mailing list submissions to > fsf-discuss(a)mm.gnu.org.in > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-discuss >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fsf-discuss-request(a)mm.gnu.org.in > >You can reach the person managing the list at > fsf-discuss-owner(a)mm.gnu.org.in > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Fsf-discuss digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. free good and easy to use software (Mathur,Anurag) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 11:57:11 +0530 >From: "Mathur,Anurag" <amathur(a)iPolicyNet.COM> >Subject: [Fsf-discuss] free good and easy to use software >To: <fsf-discuss(a)mm.gnu.org.in> >Message-ID: > <D269C7CBDF116A48982D4DC51F111BE34C22DE(a)nsezhpmail01.india.ipolicynet.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Hi Tarun, > >Please refer to ur opening mail. >I think free software can be made good and easy to use without much effort. > >Thanks > >Anurag Mathur >iPolicy Networks > >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* >Life is too short to be glum, put a smile on your face and spread it to >others. >*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > >

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Using Apt-spy
by Raghavendra Bhat 06 May '04

06 May '04

> I need to create list for both testing/Unstable. Can I use this with > -d option Using apt-spy for two different trees would not work out correctly. Here testing is separate and unstable is a different kind of cake altogether. Browse the site http://www.apt-get.org/ and insert appropriate lines in your /etc/apt/sources.list file instead of using apt-spy .... -- ragOO Amateur Radio VU2RGU DRM is clearly an attempt by publishers to unilaterally impose restrictions that go beyond copyright law. That is, a power grab -- RMS

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Using Apt-spy
by Rakesh 'arky' Ambati 06 May '04

06 May '04

Hello Friends, Am using Apt-spy to make my sources.list file.Here are few things am unable to do nicely*. 1) I need to create list for both testing/Unstable. Can I use this with -d option. 2) Apt-spy creates list with one or two sites.Sometimes most packages won't be found on that site,due to various reason's (don't flame,often I kindly let the mirror site about this). It would be great if you can tell me how to have secondary or bit slower site also listed too. Can you please share some of the apt-spy tricks so that I can save my bandwidth. * I can run apt-spy couple of times and cat the files ok that's not what am look for here. TIA --arky __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Using Apt-spy
by Mahesh T. Pai 06 May '04

06 May '04

Rakesh 'arky' Ambati said on Thu, May 06, 2004 at 05:31:23AM -0700,: 1) I need to create list for both testing/Unstable. Can I use this with -d option. Why don't you experiment? It will not kill you. And you certainly can educate yourselves. 2) Apt-spy creates list with one or two sites.Sometimes most packages won't be found on that site,due to various reason's (don't flame,often I kindly let the mirror site about this). There is some misunderstanding here. apt-spy looks only for official Debian mirrors. If you need unofficial packages, like backports, you need to manually edit sources.list -- +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+ Mahesh T. Pai, LL.M., 'NANDINI', S. R. M. Road, Ernakulam, Cochin-682018, Kerala, India. http://paivakil.port5.com +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

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Playfair News
by Rajkumar S 04 May '04

04 May '04

Some more press coverage http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/0503freesoft.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/05/03/HNundauntedbyapple_1.html raj

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Sun considers GPL license for Solaris
by Titty Jacob 03 May '04

03 May '04

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/04/30/HNsolarisgpl_1.html -- Debian GNU/Linux .~. The Choice /V\ of a GNU /( )\ Generation ^^-^^ .''`. : :' : `. `'` `-

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IT@School
by Arun M 03 May '04

03 May '04

On 26th April teachers union from Kerala, KSTA, made a protest demonstration in front of IT@School project (school IT education program of Govt of Kerala). One of the issues raised in this protest was lack of teacher training in GNU/Linux.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Spam problems
by Rakesh 'arky' Ambati 02 May '04

02 May '04

--- Rishi <rishi(a)gangfam.com> wrote: > On Sunday 02 May 2004 1:58 am, Rakesh 'arky' Ambati > wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > I have a seen a considerable increase in spam > and > > auto-remailing virus in my mailbox.Is it possible > to > > prevent to mask email addresses on mailing list > > archives. > > Hi > > Don't know about masking of e-mail addresses but > this service called Spam > Arrest is really great.. > > http://spamarrest.com > > They have a 30 day free trial and I haven't received > a single spam since. hi, Is this GNU/Free software ? I have addressesed the email to mailing-list admin. --arky __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

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Fsf-friends May 2004