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My Blog post on National Conference & Boycott Novell Protest
by Anivar Aravind 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

I blogged about the national Conference & Boycott Novell Protest http://anivar.movingrepublic.org/2008/national-free-software-conference-boy… If you are any more questions to me. Leave a comment on the post . I will update the FAQ Anivar -- I am always happy when I am Protesting: Richard M. Stallman

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on FSF should distance itself from undemocratic????
by Rahul Computerwala 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

May I know the crime committed by me or FSF India ? *The clarity which is needed at this moment is the crime commited. Why one of the members from FSF-I says he will use the platform even if there is Microsoft conference while the other says why Novell???? If FSF-I is well communicated and transparent organization then why this DOUBLE SPEAK??? I have told this earlier also but some people aren't reading other mails except of posting their mails. Why is it FSFI folks take convenient personal positions and then different official positions and everything is confusing so much. * Why was the camera of students were captured and images were removed? *If anyone is trying to disrupt the peaceful and good conference and id you appease them naturally some people who may feel offended and I know its part of one of the mistakes done by volunteers. But noone will keep quiet as an individual if someone is trying to disrupt the functions in our house. I thought it was the same for them too.* Would this issue have been got out of control if the organizers allowed peaceful protest by putting some posters? * * *Being part of this conference I saw how peaceful the protestor was. I was there in the stall to witness it. Trying to put it up the stalls even though certain stall owners were quiet interested. And I could clearly see what the protestor/s could get when I saw the article in some magazines about these things. I could clearly see the mileage and as in Bangalore experience I know that Anivar is known for such stunts and now again as always he is using this platform which few others for there own personal gains. Condemn this intention and well preparedness of hampering such a positive conference.* * * *BOYCOTT NOVELL* *BOYCOTT CHEAP PUBLICITY STUNTS* Why Anil or other organisers did not respond when Anivar called him to come and resolve the issue? *My Question is, were protestors a bit patient enough to wait for the organizers to come, as they will naturally be busy in organising some or the other events???? Or was this protest a drama to create something for themselves. Some mileage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* Some people seems to have some interest in showing this as a CPIM - FSF India fight. It is very easy to create David and Goliath and derail the discussion. *First clear the double speak and then ask questions who is creating what. Without being clear themselves I don't see this statement having any relevance. And as far as fight with political party and FSF-I goes I have been regular reader and I think this was started by one of the FSF-I members isn't it???. Anivar, sasikumar and matthew are ones who create this fight. FSF-I and some whole free timers have created such a David – Goliath issues. * * * *That's why I say. Without being clear don't comment. This would not have any ground. These comments does nothing but creates confusion within FSF community*. * * *With lots of questions on some of very confusing answers* * * *Devils Advocate for free software movement* * * *Rahul Computerwala*

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FSF should distance itself from undemocratic, illegal, immoral and unjustifiable acts of protest.
by Arun M 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

> > 3.) what did arun do in his capacity as FSF Secretary to dissolve the > > situation during the conference. Was he organizing the protest? Was the > > protest with the knowledge of FSF india? > http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2008-November/005649.html Anivar tried to contact Anil and I tried to contact Mr Kiranchandra, who were involved in organising this conference. Both of them could not come and resolve. If you want to know how organisers of exhibition treated us when we tried to resolve the issue you may also check up with Mr Vimal, SPACE or Mr Amarnath Raja, chairman IEEE, Kerala chapter (and an invited speaker). Request to put posters in two stalls by their owner were rejected. It is very sad that freedom of expression, in peaceful manner, was rejected in a conference on free software!!! Only because of that we decide for a peaceful protest by siting down in a corner, silent with posters in hand. When Sri. Joy Job Kulaveli and Sri. Chandramohankumar Registrar, CUSAT, demanded us to leave the place, (in a very undemocratic and arrogant manner), we left peacefully. May I know the crime committed by me or FSF India ? Why was the camera of students were captured and images were removed ? Why is Novell's name is still not there on conference website even when though they are the main sponsor of the event ? Would this issue have been got out of control if the organisers allowed peaceful protest by putting some posters ? Why did Anil or other organisers did not respond when Anivar called him to come and resolve the issue ? Some people seems to have some interest in showing this as a CPIM - FSF India fight. It is very easy to create David and Goliath and derail the discussion.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] [smc-discuss] Re: FSF should distance itself from undemocratic, illegal, immoral and unjustifiable acts of protest.
by haynes davis 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Nagarjuna G. <nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org>wrote: > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:05 PM, haynes davis <haynesdavis(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> If CPI(M) supports Free Software, then why did the members of this > >> party attended a MS marketing event? IKM and related stories are > >> history. Here is the latest one: > >> http://k-mug.org/content/LaunchReport.aspx > > > > "FSF India or FSF has any untouchability to Novell as far as we know. > > Dr Nagarjuna was invited for a program and he spoke. I was invited, > > I participated. > > Even if Microsoft gives us a slot we will go and speak. > > There is no issue in that. > > > > I hope this answers your question." > > > > The above quote was not referring to my question. but some other > email, so it was not clear if you are referring to my question on > who was doing the double speak. > that was my reply to manilal. i had replied in fsug bangalore list. I will copy that. > who are the FSF people are doing the double speak? > > Second, please do not identify FSF and FSFI. These are two different > sister organizations. > i referred to fsf only in Indian context, ie. fsf india. Sorry for the confusion. Some people took part in the protest say Novell issue was due to the ignorance of organizers, while some say the organizers concealed it. People like Arun etc were at the conference, while some where protesting. Anivar Aravind, Member FSF was a speaker at the conference and also a protester. http://nfm2008.atps.in/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/speakers.html And also regarding cpim hijack issue. Why dont fsf india make the things clear. Do fsf india support those rumors? If not, why does not fsf india condemn such news, at least to show some gratitude towards cpim which supports our cause? to add some more 1.) http://www.mail-archive.com/fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in/msg00704.html I am writing this mail since my earlier mail is being interpreted to mean that the CPI(M) is trying to sabotage the Free Software Movement in the country. That was not at all what I meant. Since I wrote it in a hurry as I am on the verge of leaving on a rather longish journey. I don't think a large party like the CPM would try to capture a small organisation like FSF India. But the convention has several known CPM leaders (such as Dr. Debesh Das) and CPM supporters (such as Sri N. Ram). So it would appear that the people who are doing this have a CPM background. Why they would want to create such a problem, god only knows. I am sure the top brass in the party would never knowingly permit such activities. I am sorry if I sounded otherwise. Best -- V. Sasi Kumar Free Software Foundation of India * * 2.)* http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=08/11/17/0120203* James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> writes *"This is an interesting story from Kerala, India, where the ruling Communist Party organized a national conference in its efforts to hijack the Free Software Movement, which has enviable roots in the state. They got Novell to sponsor it. On the second day of the conference, a few free software activists who displayed posters against Novell were manhandled by the organizers and police<http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/11/boycott-novell-protesters-man-ha…>— typical of what is expected from them. Most of the snaps taken during the scuffle were forcefully deleted by the organizers, after seizing the protesters' mobile phones. Still they couldn't delete all. * 3.) what did arun do in his capacity as FSF Secretary to dissolve the situation during the Kochi conference. Was he organizing the protest? Was the protest with the knowledge of FSF india? 4.) was anivar representing FSF? 5.) http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/11/boycott-novell-protesters-man-ha… പ്രവീണ്‍|Praveen aka j4v4m4n<http://www.blogger.com/profile/14632492539063886289>said... This clearly shows the organizers of this event are completely out of touch with the politics of Free Software. I am sure the community will reject any attempts by vested interests to hijack the Free Software community. Regards, Haynes.

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FSF should distance itself from undemocratic, illegal, immoral and unjustifiable acts of protest.
by haynes davis 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

"YOUR FREEDOM ENDS FROM WHERE MY NOSE BEGINS"* *The Boycott-Novell protest that was staged during the National Conference at Kochi was really unfortunate. Not because of the ideology of Boycott-Novell, but the the intentions of some of the protesters. Was it good to paste posters in other stalls and on someone else's posters? Was not it against the principles of freedom? Was it good enough to challenge the organizers that 10 posters will be pasted for each one removed? So the intentions seemed to be to interrupt the function rather than raising a cause. And the saddest part is that the protester himself was one of the organizer. The organizers gave us the opportunity to raise our concerns through open forum or posters, but with out infringing on others freedom,without disrupting the function. Why some among us is writing articles in news papers opposing such initiatives live Kochi Conference? Do you think it was journalist who dug up the issue of cpim hijack of FSF. Some among us are creating confusion regarding the GRAND HIJACK THEORY. Why does not the FSF people stop the double speak. Please make the things straight and clean. Cpim has supported free software the most. Does not we need its support. Or why should we accept its support and then accuse it of hijacking. if its true then please come forward with press release on FSF letter pad accusing cpim so that we can end the controversies. Why FSF still does not condemn the undemocratic, immoral way of protest that took place. Are these happening with the knowledge of FSF persons who were present in the venue. Are they supporting these. FSF should distance itself from undemocratic,illegal, immoral and unjustifiable acts of protest. Regards, Haynes.

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a clarification needed
by Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

hi Arun , thanks for that personal note. Though I expressed solidarity immediately i knew of this. I need a clarification. 'Novell' signs were put up in the venue earlier. Dr Nagarjuna was on the dias. Did Anivar inform you folks earlier itself..which could have sorted out things peacefully or only things were informed after confrontation. However I did see in the venue and in slashdot that very senior free software foudation folks act without restraint and like any regular flamer which is unfortunate. my report and take on the incident in kochi conference and the frequent flames seen in the recent days. http://slumdweller.wikispaces.com/kochi+conference <http://slumdweller.wikispaces.com/kochi+conference> in solidarity S

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On National Conference on Free Software at Kochi
by Vikram Vincent 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

After a good experience at the First National Conference at Hyderabad I had been planning to attend the Second Conference at Kochi from the time of its announcement a couple of months ago. Even my serious ill-health could not keep me away from the conference as many will vouch. After two weeks of bad health of which 5 days were spent on a hospital bed I woke up from the hospital bed and came straight to Kochi. The Conference was well organised and the 1000+ delegate participation from all over the country was magnificent. It was a representation of the growing peoples' mass movement which cannot be stopped or controlled by vested interests or power centres. What is obvious is the conscious conversion of a developers' movement to a peoples' movement. THE PEOPLE ARE TAKING CHARGE. The resolutions brought out at the conference are important and I hope that they will be released soon. One of the most important talks was the one by Sri. Sitaram Yechury where the issue of the crisis in global capitalism and its impact on people and the role of the Free Software Movement in building the resistance was presented in terms that even a 10th standard student could understand. A couple of years ago when organising the GPLv3 conference I noticed that only a small group of people took responsibility and organised the 'event'. But now the dynamics has changed. Events are being replaced by processes. The Karnataka team (I am not referring to FSUG-Bangalore because though I am an integral part of it I know that it is not representative of Karnataka but only a miniscule part of the Movement. A single community. FSUG B'lore is just a mailing list.) comprising of ordinary people from the slums, computer technical trainers from villages, academicians, IT employees, engineering students and others participated in the conference. The conscious effort to build a mass movement in Karnataka is bearing fruit and this was clear when almost one and a half bus loads of activists from Karnataka reached Kochi. Even the efforts to sideline genuine work and at various important protests/programs could not/cannot dampen our spirits. What struck me as odd was why FSF-India which claims to be THE free software community was not a part of this important process. While we will support causes which are just irrespective of individuals and banners we will definitely not allow elements to disrupt the movement here in Karnataka or anywhere in India and we will continue to work to build the movement the best way we know -- as a mass movement. Join us and you will be assimilated. In solidarity with the Free Software Movement, -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/

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a clarification needed
by Rahul Computerwala 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

Dear All, Again a personal note, nothing related to FSF India(expect last para). > Though I expressed solidarity immediately i knew of this. I need a > clarification. 'Novell' signs were put up in the venue earlier. Dr Nagarjuna > was on the dias. FSF India or FSF has any untouchability to Novell as far as we know. Dr Nagarjuna was invited for a program and he spoke. I was invited, I participated. Even if Microsoft gives us a slot we will go and speak. There is no issue in that. I hope this answers your question. *On ARUN's Statement * * ok now comes the bigger picture. if arun says he ll go and talk in Microsoft platform y nt use NOVELL's money in Free software convention. they dint spread any NOVELL's ideology so y not use their money for our movement. * * i mean this statement was only to reply for wat ARUn said in the above mail. If they do use Microsoft platform if its available then why so much HALLA to show. Thats why i said was it only for personal gain. Is arun supporting wat Anivar did in Undemocratic way. I dont y people do Double standards. why cant they have clear picture. ths means all they are trying to is selfish and has very little reason. this wat concerns me most and dont like these people saying carriers of non monopolistic flame. I PITY THEM. * * * > Did Anivar inform you folks earlier itself..which could have sorted out > things peacefully or only things were informed after confrontation. I hope Anivar will respond to this. I would add that protest was completely peaceful expect for treatment Anivar and some students received. *ya the protest was completely peaceful except that he was putting up posters forecfully and wanted to gain mileage out of it. so if this is ok then i dont no wat is not good. i hope forcefully putting having no problem means manhandling shouldnt be condemned as they are doing now.* > However I did see in the venue and in slashdot that very senior free > software foudation folks act without restraint and like any regular flamer > which is unfortunate. If you are referring to James, he is an employee of FSF India and he does not have any capacity to talk on behalf of FSF India. So dont try to take put that in FSF India's name. Each member of FSF India board may have their own opinion. That can not become FSF India's opinion unless FSF India board approves it. I dont see any point in dragging FSF India into this discussion. FSF India was not part of the conference though some board members participated in the event. Our participation is no way an endorsement to the conference. FSF India do have its own stand on the conference. Please note that this has nothing to do with what happened. with regards, arun *As i see if some political party members are being of accused of hijacking only cos they support free software movement then there should be no problem in these statements. thats why i suggest people not to be speaking in DOUBLE STANDARDS. be open. adjust to everyone coming along ur way in support. dont shoo away people from this great movement by these speak.* * * * All i again say is dont support vested interests. one or two trivandrum people in FSF-India seem to want accolades only for them and not for the co n tributions from every free software activists - including others in FSF . they are trying to say that they are the most 'orthodox' free software tribe in the country - they are purposefully confusing the rest of the community - they can believe that they are the most orthodox - shudh ghee - but they need not come and create a scene everywhere - let them work * * * *FOR FREE SOFTWARE MOVEMENT AND AGAINST VESTED INTERESTS* * * *DEVILS ADVOCATE FOR FREE SOFTWARE MOVEMENT.*

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on Burning Topic
by Rahul Computerwala 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

Hello everybody, As i see it clearly from the mailing list that only handful of them in this group are trying to create a sense of darkness from one political party so as to gain from it. I dont know for wat reason they should feel feel alienated from it.One only feels alienated in a scene like this is when he/she wants to gain something out of it. See we should be happy that more people are participating in this. And we should also urge ohers to participate as we need everbody to be aware. Infact if more people join it will be more easier as it will strenghten the issue of free software. BUT IF SOME GUYS WANT TO HAVE TO GAIN ADVANTAGE BY HOLDING IT TO THEM JUST LIKE WAT PROPRITERY, MONOPOLISTIC PEOPLE WANT TO DO THEN I THINK THOSE THINGS SHOULSNT BE WELCOMED. AND AS I AM SEEING HERE IF ANIVAR IS ONE AMONG THE FEW GUY WHOSE IS HAVING PROBLEMS THEN HE BETTER GO TO MICROSOFT THAN BEING HERE WHICH WILL FETCH HIM MORE PERSONAL ACCOLADES AND MONEY AS WELL. If this is a community of mass liking and if we want to grow by accepting more people into this thus more ideas and early end to propritery and monopoistic people, we have to have a progressive positive attitude and eagerness to adjust and move in POSITIVE DIRECTION. With extra love care and advise to ANIVAR And a HOPEFUL who wants free sofware in nook and corner of INDIA DEVILS ADVOCATE

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Fwd: [ATPS] My views on the Anivar incident.
by achu.kulangara＠gmail.com 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/11/18 Subject: [ATPS] My views on the Anivar incident. I too am sorry for man handling Anivar, 'the spoke-person of free software movement'. But an anti-democrat has crept in him. May be due to emotional upsurge. When he tried upon the freedom of others they too reciprocated. This is what I could understand. Trespassing the limits of democratic rights, pasting posters inside the private property of another as also manhandling was not correct. Both should have been avoided. Then, the question of name of the conference. Both the names 'National conference on free software', the name given by the organisers as also Conference on NON-FREE SOFTWARE' the name given by the supporters of Anivar 'the spoke-person of free software movement' are meaningful and reflect the content of the conference. Non-free software also were exhibited. Those who use non-free software also were present. We invited every body because the conference was meant for promoting the use of free software. Unless they come how can we interact with them. It was not a meeting of users of free software to chalk out their program. It was the meeting of all who used, started using in the past, start using now and will use in future. So we called every body. Some came. Many did not come as they were using non free software. The stand taken by Anivar, 'the spoke-person of swathanthra software' is meant to drive away those who wants to come to the fold of free software movement. How will those people be attracted to the movement. Anivar has to review his fundamentalist stance. He should ponder over this issue in its depth. At least in Kerala, one of the major hurdles for the advancement of free software movement during the past 10 years is the fundamentalist stands taken by the self proclaimed spokespersons of swathanthra software, including FSF-India. They seems to be of the view that software was freed by them, that FSF liberated software all over the world, FSF-India did it in India and Anivar Aravind did it in Kerala. They should know that software was free earlier. Most of them are free even today. But still mass of the people could not use them due to other deprivations. Socially owned Software was appropriated by few and declared them proprietary. The greatness of FSF lies in the fact that it framed the legal frame work to prevent further appropriation of that created in social domain. The FSF-India is using its name and preventing the growth of free software movement by its company form of structure. This company structure is helpful for the purpose FSF was formed, to sustain the legal frame work. But it is a hurdle for a mass movement. At least in India, FSF-India is preventing the spread of the ideals of FSF and the free software movement. SMC is a very good collaborative effort. It has enriched Malayalam. Anivar is not alone in it. Anivar is a gentleman in many respects. Young. Better if he has a bit more historic sense and able to understand the crooked ones. My request to Anivar is to try not to be the tool in the hands of FSF-India. He has to shirk off the dependence due to his earlier employment with FSF-India. -- With warm greetings. Joseph Thomas, thomasatps(a)gmail.com, 9447738369. "DREAM IS NOT WHAT YOU SEE IN SLEEP, IS THE THING WHICH DOES NOT LET YOU SLEEP"

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