Hi, I ask the above because of what I see happening... We have an organisation capable of taking free software to the common man, bridging the digital divide, building a better knowledge society... but 1. The members of the FSF-I work group have not met nor changed in ages..(see the Who's who for reference) 2. The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against teams trying to do something to popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities... 3. Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper tigers)...
More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to inactivity...
@ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves) with those who can.
Wishing you to do what is right in the best interest of the movement, Jack As
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Jack As jcakas@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, I ask the above because of what I see happening... We have an organisation capable of taking free software to the common man, bridging the digital divide, building a better knowledge society...
Very Nice , could we know more about yourself
2. The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against teams trying to do something to popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities...
I dont think any one can stop working towards the movement intitiated by RMS
More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to inactivity...
I completely disagree to this point that fsf-India is inactive.. I dont think fsf-India is inactive, to the best of my knowledge they are doing their best
@ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves) with those who can.
whether fsf-India is doing something in such a way that it could be noticed by people or not , whatever the case i am there always to be part of the free software movement initiated by RMS, I support fsf-I whoever is there at whatever situation..
whoever is there in the board does not stop or does not matter much for me to carry on the movement
Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
FSF was formed to promote and protect the free software. Bridging digital divide, knowledge society and free software for common man.. are some what different goals, but free software has a role to play. If you could contribute in any ways, you are welcome.
Your accusations of "CPIM take over" or "Board inactivity" are unfounded. There are a number of achievements to list by FSF-I since it was founded in 2001. I am sure, everyone in this list are aware of them. If you have real legitimate concerns, please discuss them here with some backing.
Thanks for the wishes. -- Anand Babu Periasamy GPG Key ID: 0x62E15A31 Blog [http://ab.freeshell.org] The GNU Operating System [http://www.gnu.org] Z RESEARCH Inc [http://www.zresearch.com]
Jack As wrote:
Hi, I ask the above because of what I see happening... We have an organisation capable of taking free software to the common man, bridging the digital divide, building a better knowledge society... but
- The members of the FSF-I work group have not met nor changed in
ages..(see the Who's who for reference) 2. The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against teams trying to do something to popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities... 3. Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper tigers)...
More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to inactivity...
@ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves) with those who can.
Wishing you to do what is right in the best interest of the movement, Jack As
Fsf-friends mailing list Fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends
Your accusations of "CPIM take over" or "Board inactivity" are unfounded.
There are a number of achievements to list by FSF-I since it was founded in 2001. I am sure, everyone in this list are aware of them.
Yes we are aware of them
If you have real legitimate concerns, please discuss them here with some backing.
I too agree to this
Yes those who are really worried about some of the things that are not on track -- instead of accusing or pointing figure at those it will be great to take the things on right track by giving valuable suggestions and playing the role of a responsible member of the group or community..... This is what the livable society is all about
"Jack As" jcakas@gmail.com writes:
- The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against teams trying to do something to
popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities...
If its about the recent Chennai Issue, Nagarjuna sir and sasikumar sir has clarified on that,right? or otherwise, please explain what you are saying about.
- Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper tigers)...
What about the works on ooxml issue? India had a good and firm stand on document freedom.Also nowadays Software patent issues are at peak.
More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to inactivity...
@ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves) with those who can.
Wishing you to do what is right in the best interest of the movement, Jack As
Perhaps we could have done better,but it is not the time to have lot more confusions. Its today's urgent need to fight against issues of atmost importance like Software patents. And So far we are having a good progress on the issue,and we should continue to fight. For that we should understand ourselves the Culture that Swathanthra Software philosophy puts forward, and make the whole India to realize and fight for their Freedom, in a Collaborative way.
And aren't these kinds of moves making small hindrances to the fights we are already doing against Software patents which is currently Lead by FSF-I in India ?
Regards Shyam K
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 1:16 AM, Shyam Karanattu mail@swathanthran.inwrote:
- Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper
tigers)...
I feel FSF India's role is 'Talking a lot' . It is the time we need more free software advocates all over the country who value freedom.
Anivar
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Jack As jcakas@gmail.com wrote:
- The members of the FSF-I work group have not met nor changed in
ages..(see the Who's who for reference)
Interesting. What does the rule book say?
- The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against teams
trying to do something to popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities...
Members are entitled to their views and those are not necessarily the FSF's. Yes, throwing accusations against other advocates without proper proof and using sensationalist headlines is bad.
- Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper
tigers)...
Some of them do not talk enough. A larger board can be useful. FSF-I needs to help with advocacy too. FSF-I has done some work, their website is not informative enough.
More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to inactivity...
There should be no problem if the Left as a whole joins the FSF-I, substantial sections are certainly active in promoting FOSS. E.g. of a leftist website: http://www.pragoti.org/
You can see the mailing list archives of FSF-I for more details on past activities.
Why don't you suggest some path-breaking activities?
Best
A. Mani
2008/9/28 Jack As jcakas@gmail.com
<snip>but
- The members of the FSF-I work group have not met nor changed in
ages..(see the Who's who for reference)
Having been active for quite sometime now I have noticed that the FSF-I leadership does not bother to give either organisational or political or any guidance despite numerous requests from the community. I do not know if this is due to ignorance or because they do not want to.
Of course, most of the people on the work group have been inactive over a long period of time and need to be replaced by more active members.
It does give rise to suspicion whether the members have not been changed just to ensure that a few remain in power.
2. The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against teams
trying to do something to popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities...
Whether Chennai or Kerala or whereever...
- Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper
tigers)...
This is not entirely true. On the Board we have Kiran who's team is known to be doing a lot of ground work in AP. I am not sure about the others' involvement in ground work though they do do a lot of other things...
More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to
inactivity...
@ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves) with those who can.
Wishing you to do what is right in the best interest of the movement, Jack As
--
Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/
2008/9/28 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com:
Looks like Jack Ass got a strong supporter in the community.
Having been active for quite sometime now I have noticed that the FSF-I leadership does not bother to give either organisational or political or any guidance despite numerous requests from the community. I do not know if this is due to ignorance or because they do not want to.
I have felt many people want to take authority and control and legacy of the community instead of strengthening and promoting the community.
Many new Free Software communities are coming up and is a welcome sign. The problem arises when the new communities tries to hijack the legacy and name of the existing communities.
I am sure you might be aware of the existence of many Free Software organisations other than FSF like IndLinux and many user groups.
Of course, most of the people on the work group have been inactive over a long period of time and need to be replaced by more active members.
I would agree to this. We need to include more active contributors to the working group.
It does give rise to suspicion whether the members have not been changed just to ensure that a few remain in power.
This is the issue when some want power first before contribution and when they don't get it as normal custom in the community. In the Free Software community leaders emerge from themselves when people take initiatives.
- The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against
teams trying to do something to popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities...
Whether Chennai or Kerala or whereever...
We in both cases we are asking them not to use FSF India's name since they have not approached FSF India.
As you are aware FSF India does not go out and throw accusations against so many communities and events like foss.in, freed.in, mukt.in since they don't use FSF India name to take advantage.
The issue here came when some people want to take credit of the work that FSF India has done without consulting with FSF India and tried to make their event look like it is organised by FSF India.
We would not have a problem if
1) They don't mention FSF India anywhere OR 2) Discuss with FSF India if they want to use the name
- Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper
tigers)...
This is not entirely true. On the Board we have Kiran who's team is known to be doing a lot of ground work in AP. I am not sure about the others' involvement in ground work though they do do a lot of other things...
Oh! So you are not aware of the work Nagarjuna has been doing for Document Freedom and Software patents campaign (to mention a few).
Probably it is time for you to wake up from "Kiran is everything dream" and look out for the contributions of so many individuals and communities to promote Free Software. I don't disagree with you for the fact that Kiran is active, but that does not mean everyone else is inactive.
Don't make your ignorance, a right.
More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to inactivity...
You can perceive it is any way you like. I know you are a member of fsf-friends and you can take initiative for activities instead of blaming someone. I know you have been doing good work and I appreciate your contributions. But that does not give you any right to discredit the work done by others.
@ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves) with those who can.
This is a serious insult to the people in the community. You having Kiran's phone number does not mean all others are inactive. And please don't judge the contributions of an organisation as great as FSF India. You are belittling yourself by doing that.
I agree with you on the fact that we need more people in the working group.
Vikram, you can do better than that. Come on !
Cheers Praveen
2008/9/29 Praveen A pravi.a@gmail.com
<snip>
Vikram, you can do better than that. Come on !
Quite a few people have made relevant points from each one's perspective.
As noted by many we need more fresh blood in the governing body FSF-India to take forward the movement in a holistic manner and that cannot be ignored.
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.comwrote:
2008/9/29 Praveen A pravi.a@gmail.com
<snip>
Vikram, you can do better than that. Come on !
Quite a few people have made relevant points from each one's perspective.
As noted by many we need more fresh blood in the governing body FSF-India to take forward the movement in a holistic manner and that cannot be ignored.
I feel the way forward is not through baseless Flame wars!!
Anivar
-- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.
2008/9/29 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com:
Quite a few people have made relevant points from each one's perspective. As noted by many we need more fresh blood in the governing body FSF-India to take forward the movement in a holistic manner and that cannot be ignored.
I was not talking about the governing body, but the working group.
Cheers Praveen
2008/9/29 Praveen A pravi.a@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com:
Quite a few people have made relevant points from each one's perspective. As noted by many we need more fresh blood in the governing body FSF-India
to
take forward the movement in a holistic manner and that cannot be
ignored.
I was not talking about the governing body, but the working group.
I am referring to both. Anyway, we are in partial agreement...
Praveen,
2008/9/29 Praveen A pravi.a@gmail.com
<snip> >> More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to >> inactivity...
You can perceive it is any way you like. I know you are a member of fsf-friends and you can take initiative for activities instead of blaming someone. I know you have been doing good work and I appreciate your contributions. But that does not give you any right to discredit the work done by others.
@ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves)
with
those who can.
This is a serious insult to the people in the community. You having Kiran's phone number does not mean all others are inactive. And please don't judge the contributions of an organisation as great as FSF India. You are belittling yourself by doing that.
I agree with you on the fact that we need more people in the working group.
Vikram, you can do better than that. Come on !
I you are addressing me then quote the sections that I have sent and then
reply. Do not take cheap shots.
OK what is happening
Lets stop this thread------ some anonymous mail without revealing his / her identity,
without knowing or with knowing and having some intentions to support some one or just for creating some confusions and disturb the great GNU Minds is making us all waste our energy and time
Lets neglect this mail for the following reasons -- if that person was a believer in free software philosophy then he should have given clear / bold suggestions....
1. Until and unless that person is revealing the identity 2. Even after so many threads --- he himself is sooooo inactive ( why r v wasting time) 3. Regarding changes -- that will happen naturally
Grand mother skin might be scaled / old, but that is the skin which has lot of love and care for the young skins because of which the skin glows
----If we want to comment on some one lets do one work better than what that person has done and then lets comment-- otherwise we will not have any right to comment-----
Lets stop and keep on fighting for the software freedom and carry on the free software movement initiated by RMS
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On Monday 29 Sep 2008, Praveen A wrote:
[snip] As you are aware FSF India does not go out and throw accusations against so many communities and events like foss.in, freed.in, mukt.in since they don't use FSF India name to take advantage.
The issue here came when some people want to take credit of the work that FSF India has done without consulting with FSF India and tried to make their event look like it is organised by FSF India.
I take strong exception to your using freed.in as an example of an event that (a) leverages the FSFI name to garner support and (b) goes around throwing accusations against any (FOSS) community.
As the very name suggests, freed.in is about freedom. Our motto is:
Freedom in Technology and Software
Our theme last year was:
Knowledge Shall Set You Free
We promote freedom, even to the extent of not permitting proprietary plugins like Ad*be Fl*sh to be demonstrated in our vendor area.
Even if we don't have FSFI officially participating in freed.in they (FSFI) have a standing invitation to join us to help promote freedom, and many members of FSFI have spoken at and participated in freed.in over the years (and Freedel before that).
Kindly provide some facts for making that statement denigrating freed.in. If you don't have any, I'd expect an apology. Ignorance is no excuse for slander.
Regards,
- -- Raju - -- Raj Mathur raju@kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance & Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves
2008/9/29 Raj Mathur raju@linux-delhi.org:
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On Monday 29 Sep 2008, Praveen A wrote:
[snip] As you are aware FSF India does not go out and throw accusations against so many communities and events like foss.in, freed.in, mukt.in since they don't use FSF India name to take advantage.
The issue here came when some people want to take credit of the work that FSF India has done without consulting with FSF India and tried to make their event look like it is organised by FSF India.
I take strong exception to your using freed.in as an example of an event that (a) leverages the FSFI name to garner support and (b) goes around throwing accusations against any (FOSS) community.
If you read carefully what I have written again... I was talking about some examples events which _DOES NOT_ use FSF India name without their permission.
2008/9/29 Praveen A pravi.a@gmail.com
If you read carefully what I have written again... I was talking about some examples events which _DOES NOT_ use FSF India name without their permission.
But you definitely owe me an apology. I did not expect such cheapness from
you.
Dear Friends,
I request you all to be calm. I assure you that FSF India board will respond. We are trying to understand the recent developments.
Free Software is what matters more. That is what brings all of us together.
I am sure that FSF India board has the strength to accept its mistakes and creative criticisms. It is a small organisation with limited resources. It has weakness and strengths. I request all of you to restrain from any kinds of flame wars.
regards, arun
2008/9/29 Vikram Vincent vincentvikram@gmail.com:
But you definitely owe me an apology. I did not expect such cheapness from you.
Sorry about that. It came from the warmth of working together for some time. Like one yelling at a good friend when one is angry with. I apologise sincerely for this. It was my mistake.
Hope we can leave it behind us and move forward to spread Software Freedom.
-
Anand Babu Periasamy -
Anivar Aravind -
Arun M -
Jack As -
Mani A -
Praveen A -
Raj Mathur -
renuka prasad -
Shyam Karanattu -
Vikram Vincent