This is what a friend shared with me... Obviously Microsoft believes
that they can beat GNU/Linux on the price front. And get youngsters
hooked to it at the right age? FN
---------- Forwarded message ----------
We are in the process of Acquiring MSDN Academic Alliance - for
Educational institutes only - costs around 799$ / year - gives full access
to OS and programs for entire institute -- unlimited number copies -
usefull for students as the course curriculum involves MS tools + the
industry too at present - job / carrier minded would still persist with
We prefered above MSDN AA program as keeping relevant OS+Package upgrades
once in 2-3 years would inturn cost much more than keeping the above
Stallman: Disk, I/O issues delay GNU OS
By John Ribeiro
November 6, 2002 2:54 pm PT
BANGALORE, INDIA -- The release of a production version of the free GNU
operating system (OS) has been delayed beyond the end of the year, as the
current development version of the system does not support large disk
partitions and high speed serial I/O (input-output), according to Richard
Stallman, president of the Boston-based Free Software Foundation (FSF).
"I would say that when two features that are that essential are still
missing, we are not at version 1.0 of the system yet," Stallman told IDG
News Service in an interview this week in Bangalore. Stallman was however
noncommittal on a new release date.
In an interview in March, Stallman said that the production version of the
GNU OS was likely to be ready by the end of this year.
Developers working on the current development version of the GNU system,
also called the GNU/Hurd to distinguish it from GNU/Linux, have found
limitations in the Hurd kernel and the GNU Mach microkernel, according to
"There are two problems that have to be solved," Stallman said. "One of them
is the lack of high-speed, serial-line handling, and the other is the limit
on the size of a file system which is at somewhere between one to two
gigabytes, which means that if you get a moderate size disk you have to
divide it into smaller partitions, which is a nuisance."
To solve the serial port problem, the GNU project is switching from the GNU
Mach to the OSKit Mach, a Mach based on the OSKit for OS development from
the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, Utah. "That version of Mach is
supposed to get high speed serial line support, although it apparently isn't
there in yet," Stallman said. Before the GNU project could switch to the
OSKit Mach, it had to rewrite the [Image]terminal support in the Hurd to
support virtual consoles.
The GNU project has also got developers to work on the problem of the limit
on the size of the current Hurd file system.
"There are many other things that we want to do that will make the Hurd
better, but resolving this issue (of the limit on the size of the file
system) is absolutely essential," added Stallman. "I don't think it was
realized how bad it is practically speaking not to be able to use whatever
your disk partitioning is. Clearly most people are not going to repartition
their disks to be able to try out our Hurd based system."
Currently some users work with a development version of the GNU/Hurd system
distributed by the open source Debian Project.
The FSF is also modifying the GNU General Public License (GPL), though the
fundamental principles will remain unchanged, according to Stallman.
"We have looked at, for example, adding a clause that explicitly states that
you give a patent license when you redistribute the software," Stallman
added. FSF also plans to incorporate into the GNU GPL a section covering use
of software on a computer network. This new section is likely to be on a
similar section in the Affero GPL adopted by San Francisco-based Affero Inc.
The Affero GPL requires anyone modifying a software program to give
immediate access by HTTP (Hypertext Transfer Protocol) to the complete
source code of the modified software to other users interacting with the
software on the network, if the original program had a provision for this
kind of access.
John Ribeiro is an India-based correspondent for the IDG News Service, an
Thanks to Jeebesh Bagchi <jeebesh(a)sarai.net> for sending it across... Is
this some coincidence that all the low-cost PCs -- aimed at widening
access to those who can't afford -- are almost all GNU/Linux-based FN
Curing Poverty with Computing
Brazilian University Researchers Build Cheap Computers for the Masses
here is an excerpt
"The idea here was to create a computer that members of the Brazilian
underclass could genuinely afford.� The Net PC will cost around $400 reiais
(around US$ 200), and will be available by June 2001.�� Furthermore, in order
to ensure affordability,� and a 24-month payment plan will be offered.
�The task of creating this machine was turned over to the computer science
department at one of Brazil?s leading universities, the Federal University of
Minas Gerais (UFMG), in Belo Horizonte.� The project was led by a number of
expert computing researchers, including Sergio Vale Aguilar Campos, trained
at Carnegie-Mellon University in the USA, and Wagner Meira, trained at the
University of Rochester in the USA.�These professors are accustomed to
spending their time doing research and teaching on advanced topics like
parallel computing (running programs on specialized computers) and automatic
program verification (programs that check to be sure other programs are doing
what they?re supposed to).� But they and many of their colleagues and
students were willing to take time out from this to work on the
government-sponsored project of bringing much simpler aspects of computing to
a much wider population.
The Net PC itself will be a fairly standard one . a Pentium 500 MHz, with
keyboard, mouse, 56 Kbps modem, 14" display, 64 Mb RAM and no hard disk (16
Mb flash RAM instead).� According to those involved in the project, the
technical aspects of designing the system were not particularly onerous ? no
major inventions or innovations were required.� The hardest part was
bargaining with the manufacturers of the various parts of the machine, who
tended to be oriented toward making the most expensive and powerful machines
possible rather than creating low-cost systems.�
Early on in the project it was realized that the Microsoft Windows OS was not
an option, due to its high cost.� Instead, the system was built around the
freeware Linux OS, the favorite of hackers everywhere.� This is a very
interesting aspect of the project.� In the US and Western Europe, Linux is a
minority OS, used by hackers, programmers and computer scientists only.�
Standard tools like browsers and word processors exist for Linux, but aren?t
quite as polished or user-friendly as on the Windows OS.� On the other hand,
advanced tasks are much easier to carry out in Linux than in Windows, and
there are other major advantages, such as Linux?s increased stability
(machines running Linux can go for years without ?crashing?, whereas the
typical time between crashes for Windows systems is more like days).����
And Linux, unlike Windows, is an open-source software system, meaning that
anyone around the world can edit the computer code that determines how the
system runs, and make it run differently.� By its very nature, it invites
participation from users, whether those users are in the Brazilian ghetto or
in the heart of Silicon Valley.� In the same spirit as the choice of the
open-source Linux architecture, the UFMG computer scientists decided to make
the�main-board architecture for the machine open as well, meaning that any
company will be able to make it, and that computer-savvy users will easily be
able to modify it or add onto it as they wish.
In fact, this is just one example of the international move toward
open-source software, which does not yet pose a huge short-term threat to
Microsoft?s hegemony in the OS market, but may well do so in a few years
time.� For instance, the government of Argentina is considering passing a new
law mandating that, after an adjustment period government offices can only
use Open Source software.� And, less extremely, the French government
currently dictates that no computer files can be used in government business
unless they can be read and edited by Open Source software.�
Each successive version of Windows software uses more and more computational
resources, thus providing more functions (sometimes useful ones, sometimes
useless one) and pushing consumers to buy more and more powerful computers
each year.� As Wagner Meira says, in this regard the Net PC project was
strikingly contrarian.�?We did a lot of hacking for shrinking a lot of
software into 16Mb.� There was a lot of discussion around our minimalist
approach versus the maximalist approach usually adopted by Windows. We are
watching an ever growing and ever more flawed Windows over the years, and our
project adopted exactly the reverse direction.?�
Instead of asking what can be done to sell more software or more hardware to
middle-class North Americans (the question on the minds of most people in the
US computer industry), they asked, as Meira puts it:� ?What does a computing
novice really need in a computer? Internet (including multimedia) and text
processing.� Eventually software for creating a spreadsheet or a
presentation.�However,? ? and here is the big difference from projects like
the American WebTV -- ?the Net PC does allow expansions for those that want
to have an enhanced computing experience.?
WebTV and similar projects allow very limited Internet use at low cost, but
they don?t allow the user to grow in sophistication.� With the Net PC, on the
other hand, Meira says, ?by employing an incremental approach, we believe
that we can reach a much larger portion of the population without restricting
the use of the equipment.�My mother, for instance, had a hard time to learn
how to double click, and she definitely does not know how to shut down the
computer.?� Yet a young Brazilian who wants to learn to program software can
do so on the Net PC; indeed its Linux kernel provides in a some ways a better
platform for this than a standard Windows-based computer.
Finally, Meira observes cannily that the minimalist approach taken in the Net
PC is the sort of thing that could only emerge in a place like Brazil, not in
a place like the USA, where ?More, more, more!? is the watchword.�?In
Brazil,? he notes, ?popular stuff is usually minimalist, such as� the popular
car (up to 1000cc), pre-paid cell phones, etc.?�� This is a small example of
the general principle that the developing world must lead its own people into
the information age.�The cultural and conceptual biases of First World
countries aren?t necessarily in synch with the needs of the rest of the
world, even though First World technology has universal applicability.
What impact will these cheap, open-architecture computers have on the
Brazilian underclass, on the tremendous economic inequity that is the
underbelly of this rapidly growing digital economy?� This remains to be
seen.� One hopes that they will serve to blur the distinction between the
lower reaches of the middle class and the upper echelons of the poor.� That
families will save their money to buy cheap computers for their children,
who will then go online and learn about the depth of� world far beyond their
neighborhood, opening their eyes to the possibilities that aren?t shown in
TV sitcoms and reality shows.�� How many people, whose parents weren?t
university-educated, will use their new Net PC?s as tools to help them gain
computer skills, so that they can get in on the ground floor of one of the
software start-ups in Brazil?s booming software industry?�
Of course, cheap computers aren?t the whole solution to Brazil?s problems ?
they?re only one very small piece of a huge and complicated picture.�Overall
improvement of primary education in poor neighborhoods is a huge task which
is inarguably both more critical and more difficult.� But it?s important not
to be overwhelmed by the magnitude of the human problems around us, and to
realize that every little bit counts.� The popular bumpersticker says ?Think
globally, act locally,? and this is one of those clich�?s that actually
deserves the repetition it receives.�The computer scientists at UFMG, as they
take a break from their advanced research on parallel algorithms and program
verification to create inexpensive computers for the masses, are playing an
integral role in the technological advancement of human race and the overall
creation of global computational intelligence.� We need the next phase of the
tech revolution to be founded on compassion and inclusion, not elitism,
classism and egocentrism.� This is a responsibility that falls on us all.
��PostScript: Class Politics and the Cyber-visionary Community
What do the leaders of the tech revolution in the developed world think of
this kind of work?� Precious few cyber-leaders are in practice interested in
devoting their time to such pursuits.�� One hopes that as more and more
technology millionaires reach the age where they become interested in
philanthropy, the spread of the tech revolution across the world will become
a focus, along with other laudable goals like global health and education.�
But at the present time, opinions on the importance of reaching out to the
masses, and the optimal strategy for doing so, are all over the map.
A few months ago, excited about the Brazilian Net PC and the prospect of
further similar projects around the world, hopefully coupled with serious
educational initiatives, I began talking about such things on the Extropians
e-mail list, an Internet discussion group devoted to futuristic technology
and its social and economic implications.� Someone noted that the views of
the Extropian community tended not to be taken very seriously in the
mainstream press, and I suggested that, perhaps, if the Extropian community
became involved in doing something important to the mainstream world, their
opinions would be valued more.� What if, for instance, a group of Extropians
devoted some of their time to education in the Third World?
Eliezer Yudkowsky, a friend and colleague whose opinion I respect, came down
against this hard.�� According to him, his time and effort, and that that of
his cyber-guru colleagues, should be spent pushing full-speed-ahead toward
the ?Singularity?, his word for the point at which the acceleration of
technical development becomes infinite, through computer programs rewriting
their own source code, robots rebuilding their own hardware and other similar
futuristic designs.�?How much money is spent on attempts to actually ship
food directly to the poor?? he asked. ?Lots.� How much money is spent on
direct efforts to implement the Singularity? ? Not much.?
On the other hand, Samantha Atkins, another Extropians list regular and a
veteran Silicon Valley AI engineer, replied to Eliezer with a different point
of view: ?Perhaps,? she suggested, ?there is a productive middle ground.�
Some of us could say more about precisely how the Singularity, and the
technologies along the way, can be applied to solving many of the problems
that beset real people right now.�We can produce and spread the memes of
technology generally and AI, nanotechnology and the Singularity in particular
as answering the deepest needs, hopes and dreams of human beings?.�As part of
this we also need more of a story about the steps up to Singularity as
involves the actual lives and living conditions of people.� That we will
muddle along somehow while a few of the best and the brightest create a
miracle is not very satisfying.� What kind of world do we work toward in the
meantime?� What do we do about poverty, about technology obsoleting skills
faster than new ones can be acquired, about creating workable visions
including ethics and so on?� What is our attitude toward humanity??
What is our attitude toward humanity, indeed?� Eliezer is a very ethically
serious person, and he truly believes that the best thing we in the
cyber-elite can do is for the world is to produce superior technology.� The
technology itself, he says, will transform the world for everyone, and the
most important thing to do is to get the technology to this point, to the
point where it can figure out how to solve the world?s problems on its own.�
There is a certain amount of truth to this perspective.� And, in my view,
there is also a certain irony to it, particularly given the fact that
Eliezer?s research so far has focused on how to make AI programs ?Friendly,?
in the sense of being well-disposed toward humans.�� His solution to the
problem of AI friendliness lies in the realm of cognitive engineering ? he
believes one needs to give an AI an appropriate goal system specifically
designed to foster Friendliness.
In early 2001, I was running the AI company Webmind Inc., and Eliezer visited
our New York office to give a lecture on Friendly AI.� The lecture was
received excellently by some and terribly by others.� Generally speaking the
Webmind Inc. staff were absorbed with the practical problems of trying to
create real digital intelligence, whereas Eliezer was more concerned with the
various philosophical and futuristic issues that will arise once a truly
intelligent AI system is completed.� But the issue of ?wiring in
Friendliness? definitely struck everyone powerfully, one way or another.�
Among the milder responses, one of our Brazilian software engineers ? not one
of the several who had worked on the Net PC project before joining Webmind,
but a good friend of those who had, and a student of Wagner Meira and Sergio
Campos ? raised his hand and politely said: ?But perhaps the most important
thing is not the in-built goal system, but whether we teach it by example.?��
The friendlier we are, in other words, the friendlier our AI systems are
going to be.�
The issue is clear and poignant.� What the Brazilian engineer was suggesting
was that, if our superhuman AI grows up watching us act as though most humans
are dispensable and irrelevant, perhaps it will, in its adulthood, believe
that we too are dispensable and irrelevant.� On the other hand, perhaps, as
Eliezer says, it will grow up and understand that building it was the best
thing the cyber-elite could do for humanity as a whole, and it will then
proceed to spread joy and plenty throughout the land.��Who knows?
These rarefied ethical disputes are fascinating, but they easily carry one
away into the domain of angels dancing on the heads of pins. �And this is why
the kind of work done by Campos, Meira and their colleagues is so
intriguing.� There?s no arguing with the real physical-world power of
millions of impoverished Brazilians logging onto the Net and discovering
discussion groups like Extropians, where things like ethics and technology
discussed, and speculations on superhuman AI appears alongside critiques of
the latest Java release.� Without the Net PC and other things like it, these
people might well never get to log on and argue with Eliezer for themselves.�
(Not, at any rate, unless the Singularity comes fast enough that superhuman
AI systems revolutionize their lives before they get old.)
�In spite of the success of Cardoso?s economic reforms, there is a lot of
justified skepticism in Brazil about the whole political system and
everything the government does.� University people are up in arms over
Cardoso?s plan to charge significant university tuition, breaking a tradition
of free university education for all sufficiently academically distinguished
students.� As Thiago Turchetti Maia, another Brazilian software engineer and
student of Meira and Campos, says, ?You know the money saved from charging
tuition is not going to go to send poor people to university.� You know it?s
just going to disappear.?� But when asked about the Net PC project, he waxes
at least a bit more positive.. ?Well, there, you can see what the money?s
going towards,? he says.� ?At least that?s something real.?� He shrugs.�
?Maybe it will make some difference?.?
Or is this hype ?
Forwarding from FSUG-Kozhikode list.
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: [fsug-calicut] Some thing to reply..
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:03:53 +0530
From: "Jaisen.N.D." <jaisu_vyas(a)rediffmail.com>
Have any one seen the month's Sasthragathi? Not yet? Then please get
it.. It have an article by K.Anvar Sadath and T.P.Sudhakaran, working in
Information Kerala Mission. They tries to justify the Microsoft - based
foundation of the project.
They point out:
- Software development is not a mental effort of only the programmers
involved, but, it is a user - based effort in a human centered thought.
So, the training of users, and the efforts which enable the users to use
the technology have more importance.
> I agree with it. Me too was a volenteer in IKM's OIK project (to
computerise the panchayat election counting centers in 2000.) which was
a big flop.
- It is a business strategy to raise a particular technology as a
solution for all type of issues.
> They says that, the fsf movement and all the efforts of volenteers
all over the world are simply a business trick. Should I say something?
- Application of technology has many expenses.. They include
- direct expenses
- non-direct expenses
- invisible expenses
- short term expenses
- long term expenses etc.
so a technology should be chosen considering all these things equally.
> Me too agree. Is the GNU more expensive than MS based things
considering all these? Sounds interesting..
- To surrender to the greatness of a particular type of technology,
and tolerate with it's dominance is not scientific.
> Here goes all the waters out.. Who are surrendering?
- Unix is not developed for ordinary users. So the Unix is unreachable
for ordinary users and it is the main drawback of Unix....... All the
capabilities and drawbacks are common for all the OSs like Linux which
are included in Unix family..... Unix and Linux are for the expert users
who are working in powerful computers..
> It is true that Unix was not developed for common users. But the
train is running.. There was a time, which there were no GUIs for Unix
and it's clones. But now situation is different. Almost all the
distributions of Linux comes with a very user-friendly GUI which are
equally or more better than any other available in the market.
- Total Cost Ownership ( TCO ) includes the expenses of
administration, training, technical assistance, other services as well
as cost of software...... Open Source code doesn't win the market
because, it feels costly in the observations based on TCO.
> Is it? Where is the Survey / Study reports?
- Windows has a simple and easy GUI..
> Linux has more than one simple and easy Desktop environments..
- Technical assistance for Linux is limited. Big Projects can't go
depending on volenteering help services.
> Then how the govt. projects of many countries of the world like
China or Brazil goes?
- Open Source is only a business trick to get dominance in the market
using some values..
- RMS is neither tries to connect the bad effects of patents and
copyrights with capitalistic authority and it's values ...
- Inside the framework of Capitalism, no any future for humanity,
equality, or honesty in long-terms through FSF.
- C-Dit gets Microsoft products in discount rates.. after the
agreement with them.
- The agreement is not a new thing. National Informatic Centre and
many State Govt agencies have experience in these type of agreements.
> I know that The Mail server of NIC for the students and teachers
(http://edumail.nic.in) Runs on Microsoft's Outlook Express. But is it a
model to imitate?
............... and a lot. What u think? Can't we reply?
FSUG-Kozhikode Home Page :
Please get in touch with Michael Steidley directly.Thanks, FN
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 08:21:47 -0500
Subject: GPL Fonts
From: Michael Steidley <michael(a)ariesgraphics.net>
I recently read your article in Linux Journal about Indian language
solutions in linux.
I'm a graphics designer and digital media specialist. I've been creating
fonts for over ten years and I'm interested in helping create fonts for
Indian languages which do not have any GPL fonts available.
If you could put me in contact with someone concerning this matter I would
greatly appreciate it.
Thank you for your time.
Hope I'm not repeating, but I don't recollect seeing this on the lists
earlier. For the purists, while the memo uses the term open source
extensively, it can be replaced by free software over most of the
'Ware when replying and cross-posting.
This mail provides a detailed summary of the results of the Attitudes
Towards Shared Source & Open Source Research Project managed by
Kathryn Marsman and directed by David Kaefer and Jason Matusow. The
Shared Source project was developed to provide a greater understanding
of how key audiences perceive Open Source, Linux, Shared Source, and
the GPL and which messages will be effective with each audience. The
survey was fielded in the U.S., Brazil, France, Germany, Sweden, &
Japan with developers, IT and non-IT BDMs, IT Pros and Issue
Elites. Please note that save for the U.S., the individual country and
audience sample sizes are extremely small. The survey questionnaire
and samples were developed collaboratively by Redmond, the
subsidiaries and the survey vendor. All data collection utilized a
telephone-based interviewing process. The study fielded between
late-July and September 2001. The detailed summary below drills into
OSS and Linux familiarity and favorability, those reasons people give
for being supportive of OSS and Linux, Shared Source familiarity and
favorability, and OSS, Linux and Shared Source messaging. Key
Raju Mathur raju(a)kandalaya.org http://kandalaya.org/
It is the mind that moves
History Society, Ramjas College + Sarai/ CSDS
invite you to a talk
" Copyright vs Community in the Age of Computer Networks"
by RICHARD STALLMAN, Founder, Free Software Foundation
on Friday, November 8, 2002
The talk will be followed by a discussion.
Venue: Auditorium, Ramjas College
Time: 11.30 AM
"COPYRIGHT developed in the age of the printing press, and was designed to
fit with the system of centralized copying imposed by the printing press. �
But the copyright system does not fit well with computer networks, and only
draconian punishments can enforce it. The global corporations that profit
from copyright are lobbying for draconian punishments, and to increase their
copyright powers, while suppressing public access to technology. �But if we
seriously hope to serve the only legitimate purpose of copyright--to promote
progress, for the benefit of the public--then what must be done is either to
reduce copyright powers or effectively eliminate them, depending on the kind
of work. �Governments must now protect the public's right to copy."
RICHARD STALLMAN is "the founder of the GNU Project, launched in 1984 to
develop the free operating system GNU (an acronym for "GNU's Not Unix''), and
thereby give computer users the freedom that most of them have lost. GNU is
free software: everyone is free to copy it and redistribute it, as well as to
make changes either large or small."
Stallman has also founded the related Free Software Foundation (FSF) and is
outspoken about his belief that all software should be free. In his view �
proprietary software, for which corporations charge a fee, is wrong from a
moral or ethical standpoint.
> From: Thommie Rother <t.rother(a)netzwissen.de>
> To: linux-india Mailing Liste <linux-india-general(a)lists.sourceforge.net>
> Subject: [LIG] Some assistance needed in Aramboly, Tamil Nadu
> Date: 06 Nov 2002 13:10:57 +0100
> Hi folks,
> this message does't come from a Linuxer in India, but in Germany:
> I am working with an NGO supporting a home for orphaned children in
> Tamil Nadu, the Annai Seva Ashram. The home is located in Aramboly,
> Kanyakumari Dist., a few kilometers from Nagercoil. The children are
> from 7 to 15 yrs old, they get basic education in local public schools.
> Our NGO here in Germany supports the projects since 18 years. For
> details, see http://www.annai.de (sorry for the english pages not being
> "up to date").
> I have two questions:
> 1) On-site Linux/graphics/printing advice in Kanyakumari district
> To make some (additional) money, the home had operated a little print
> shop for some years. As the classic "mechanical printing" is out of date
> now, the machinery has been sold. Instead of this, they want to invest
> into computerized printing. They will not buy a complete "printer
> factory" , but rather specialize in pre-press/pre-printing activities.
> That means, they want to create the digital data, the actual printing is
> done elsewhere. All necessary knowledge on printing is already there.
> Our board has opened a budget for the purchase of a good (professional)
> desktop PC and the chief officer of ASA (Mr Sukumaran) had already
> received an offer from a computer shop in Nagercoil plus some detailed
> recommendations from us, concerning the hardware.
> For the software side, we recommend strongly to NOT invest into
> proprietary M$ Windows stuff but rather into the Linux OS and
> free/Open-Source software. But the final decision is up to them! I am
> looking for some person who is willing to give Mr Sukumaram some on-site
> advice, in the case that he will decide to use Linux and Linux graphical
> programs (that will be GIMP, I assume..). I already made some searches
> on linux-india.org, but without successs concerning the Kanyakumari region.
> 2) Website creation in the tamil language
> For the www.annai.de site, we want to have a three-language setup:
> primarily in german, then tamil and english. I am looking for some
> practical start-up hints on creating tamil web pages. Can anyone here
> give me an overwiev on this? I have people who can translate from
> english to Tamil (at ASA), but how is tamil supported in current
> browsers/OS'es nowadays?
> Greetings & thanks for your help!
> THOMAS M. ROTHER * n e t z w i s s e n * D-73728 Esslingen
> F.R. Germany, European Union * mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org
> http://www.netzwissen.de * GPG Key from http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net
> Fingerprint B208 E204 4249 4635 19B9 B691 3E73 C8B9 1229 DE4C
> This sf.net email is sponsored by: See the NEW Palm
> Tungsten T handheld. Power & Color in a compact size!
> Linux-india-general mailing list
* * * Please excuse this long post... today is an unusual day in the
history of GNU/Linux in Goa. RMS speaks at the GEC at 4 pm on
November 6, 2002 (This article was written c. 2001) * * *
OpenNews: OpenSource newz from India!
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