Fsf-friends December 2003

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

43 participants
89 discussions

Welcome Rms
by fjsylvester 20 Dec '03

20 Dec '03

Dear friends, Merry Christmas season It will be great to see RMS in india in the new year Will he be coming to bombay ? I came to know about RMS when his photo and article was published inthe times of india ciao regards sylvester

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Linux 2.6.0 kernel released
by Soundara Rajan N.S 19 Dec '03

19 Dec '03

Linux 2.6.0 kernel released Version 2.6.0 of the Linux kernel is ready for business. Readers of the linux-kernel mailing list learned that testing of the open-source operating system's new core ended late Wednesday, when Linus Torvalds sent an e-mail beginning with the cryptic phrase "The beaver is out of detox." Source : Technology and Business Daily Scoop dt 18.12.2003

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Help: Introducing students to OSS
by balachandran c 16 Dec '03

16 Dec '03

Hi friends, I have an opportunity to teach a few courses to computer science students at Engg. college tvm. I would like to know your opinions/ideas on introducing the students to OSS. Though I havent had much interaction with the students yet, i believe that most of the 2nd year guys are not familiar with Gnu/Linux. PS: Im new here Balachandran Chandrasekharan

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At the bottom of splitting threads
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Dear Mahesh Pai, Thanks for the reply. You are correct. I finally got to the bottom of this issue some hours ago, after reading: http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html <http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html> and made some trial and error postings. Some discussion about this went on at ILUGC also. If you are interested, please do visit: http://www.aero.iitm.ernet.in/pipermail/ilugc/2003-December/thread.html Regards, K. Ramanraj.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] [serious]How to write the subject line in emails while posting messages
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Hi Arky and Suraj, http://www.atra-tr.org/netetiquette.htm was helpful. I deliberately cross-posted the request to ILUGC also, to measure response rate! Suraj pointed to http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#bespecific But both links are generally useful but do not point specifically to answers on the subject raised. Now, please let me know if there is a serious page on this heavy subject [pun unintended]. How does mailman do the threading? [just the plain logic without code] How to fork the threading? Suppose I start a thread like "Is an International Free Software Treaty Possible?", is it possible to return to the thread even the next month? Can I view all posting on a single thread alone? Please do not think I know and I am asking :-) I am just trying to reach the root of the subject matter! Cheers! K. Ramanraj.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] [answer]How to write the subject line in emails while posting messages
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

I wrote: >Could anybody let me know how to write the subject line in emails, >while posting messages to mail lists, so that it is correctly threaded? The correct answer was found at: http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html Thanks for the help BGa and all who responded. Cheers! K. Ramanraj.

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[Fsf-friends] How to write the subject line in emails while posting messages
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Could anybody let me know how to write the subject line in emails, while posting messages to mail lists, so that it is correctly threaded?

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Re: Fund Raising for FSF-India
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Suraj <suraj(a)symonds.net> responded to my request to ilugc and fsf-friends, instantly, along with this correction: Please find the corrected document attached herewith. As for the correction about 'holy' vs 'wholly' I have made it '[w]hol[l]y'. Feel free to make any changes (and i would be helped if you can send back the changes so that I can maintain a nice copy of it for myself). The speech and the Q&A session must have been for 3 to 4 hours, and it has taken me that much time to merely correct punctuation, and I am only half way through! The RMS speech is important, as it conveys the entire history and philosophy of the Free Sofware movement in a capsule. It could probably be published as a booket by FSF-India. I wrote as follows to Suraj, privately: >Dear Suraj, > >Thanks for having done a wonderful job of writing the transcript of the RMS speech. It made me feel like I actually attended the meet. It must have taken a lot of your time and patience... > >Regards, >Ramanraj. I feel like gifting our young friend Suraj a carton of 5-Stars, all for himself :-) for the good work done!

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Help: Introducing students to OSS
by Harish Narayanan 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

Greetings again. That sounds like a good collection of recent and friendly software. I had totally overlooked the possibility of a live CD such as Knoppix, I guess because I feel I am before their time and never had the chance (or made the time) to use one. That is an excellent way of getting people to use it and not have to worry about issues related to hard drive partition management. I really can't believe the thought didn't cross my mind. (But I am not sure of the speed implications of running from a CD, but then again, one problem at a time.) Again, I have to say, Cygwin, though extremely useful, usually tends to result in people assuming "that's how your average GNU Linux distribution will be like", so it wouldn't be my way of showing someone free software for the first time. Now for the more important part, in my opinion. I was pretty focused on what you were talking about too, again in my opinion. What I said had nothing to do with being politically correct. All the software you mentioned, are free. There is usually a lot more involved in these projects in the form of ideology, goals, their effect on society etc, which, I feel, is not adequately conveyed calling it open source. They might sound the same on paper, but the inherent ideologies of the camps are quite different, and it would have been important to me to clarify this to my students, had I the opportunity. I can see how this can be of different levels of importance to different people, and I was offering my opinion, which hopefully portrays what is important to me. Good luck, Harish Narayanan http://www-personal.umich.edu/~hnarayan/site/ balachandran c wrote: >Hi > >Thank you for your thoughful comments. Personally, I have already compiled cds of knoppix, firebird, openoffice (with sdk, documentation), eclipse and GIMP (with doc for writing scripts, plugins). Basically, the stuff I find interesting/useful. I was not sure about cygwin, and havent downloaded it yet. I think your suggestions are useful and will try to make the most of it. > >Calling it OSS? well, im pretty focused on what im talking about and at this moment, all i care is what i can do to meet my objectives. I believe that i know what im talking about and do not care about being politically correct. I am not undermining the importance of what you said, but just pointing out that it is just not my priority. > >thank you friend, > >bala > > > >On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 Harish Narayanan wrote : > > >>Greetings. >> >>Firstly, it's nice to hear teachers at colleges taking the initiative. When I was in school/college (and still am for that matter), we weren't explicitly told about the ideals and goals of these projects, but we were exposed to a good deal of them since there were (and are) labs running these software, and we were using them often. >> >>But, (I don't quite know whether to refer to you as Balachandran or Sir, so I am going with neither) I am sure once you talk to your students you will be pleasantly surprised how much they have already been exposed to GNU Linux and other Free Software, and how much they have figured out on their own and from other people. From personal experience, anybody who I've known to be curious or read any magazine related to computers or technology has popped in a distribution install disc and tried playing with it at home. This has been, again in my experience, in high school, when they have finally decided they are brave enough to partition their hard disk. Many of them have gone on to be full time users. >> >>I think what I am trying to say is, a fair portion of the people, by second year in college have tried it, are using it or have friends who do. It would be nice if you could identify these people, and help them influence people they know to try it, or help them with installation or in other ways. This, I have seen is the easiest way to get people comfortable with it. My parents, for instance, don't have an issue now with using Mandrake GNU Linux (granted their usual realm of usage doesn't propagate too much beyond Galeon, gaim, OpenOffice.org and Ximian Evolution on a fairly standard GNOME desktop). But they wouldn't have made an attempt to get it installed on a machine themselves. Once that is done and everything is set up to "just work", they are comfortable without proprietary software. Anyway, enough of my personal experiences and to attempt to answer your question in a college setting. >> >>My suggestions include (not all are necessarily feasible, I know): >> >>* First, on the same note as above, organise a local user group for people who use these software, at a college or larger level, so that they can meet once a month or so and help/influence other people. (This is also a sort of social event for the geeky types. We need to get out more. At least this way it's with like minded people to an extent.) >>* If the primary work environment in labs is Windows based (which I am assuming it is) have the lab administrator install a fairly recent GNU Linux distribution on a separate partition and indicate to the students they can boot to it if they want. (Again, I am assuming you do not wish to remove the windows partition just yet). There is usually a rather common misconception that free software is harder to use, because it is free and used only by hackers. Once people try it, they could realize they were not entirely right. Plus there is usually a lot of cool stuff, the GIMP for instance, that can catch people's fancy. I'd have to say, superficial as it may be, programs like the GIMP and eye-candy in environments such as Enlightenment (no "real" updates in ages) made it cool and fun to use. Which is actually quite important when you are in school. >>* As a step leading to what I said above, replace (or install along side) standard windows software (such as MS Office, IE, Outlook Express ...) and other proprietary software, with free equivalents (OpenOffice.org, Firebird, Thunderbird ...). If people get used to, say OpenOffice.org on windows, and they realize it runs just the same or even better on GNU Linux, they will find it easier, and hence be more willing to make the shift. (Again, in my experience, environments such as Cygwin are generally of very different quality, so please don't make it a users first experience. They will tend to assume all software on an "actual" GNU Linux environment performs that way.) >>* Please don't force the coursework, in your case (I am assuming programming) to depend on the nuances of a particular compiler or platform (graphics programming for instance). Teach them standard programming practices based on rigorous standards, so people can use the compilers and build chains of their choice. Again hoping this will allow people to delve into GNU software, such as gcc, gdb and make. It will be hard to say, yes, GNU Linux can do this and that, but please code in MS Visual C++ because your assignment requires some win32 specific headers. The same goes for using, say Word to type out reports. Introduce them to Latex or a similar program, which may be harder initially, but once they get the hang of it, the quality of their work will be higher. ( I am not a student in the field of computer science, so am not entirely sure what really goes into the curriculum. The same logic also applies to say, HTML/XHTML, SQL and whatever else the curriculum might contain.) >>* As a practice, in general, following the same vein of the previous point, don't use proprietary or patented formats as far as possible for anything and set an example. If you want to play them, say an audio clip of a talk, use an Ogg Vorbis file and not an MP3. Someone will definitely notice this, and ask you why. Then you can use that as an opportunity to explain the ideals, which I have reiterated as my next point. >>* In classes, indicate the ideals and goals behind such projects. They will realize for themselves the technical superiority (or where it is lacking) of these tools in comparison with their proprietary counterparts. Once people understand the ideology, they will appreciate it a lot more. The ones so inclined will also contribute code, financially, bug reports etc.. to help these projects grow. >>* And please don't call it OSS. >> >>I could come up with a few more if I really thought about it, but I will wait to see how people feel about this existing set before I do. >> >>Just another student and FSF associate member from the month he started earning, >>Harish Narayanan >> >>balachandran c wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hi friends, >>> >>>I have an opportunity to teach a few courses to computer science students at Engg. college tvm. I would like to know your opinions/ideas on introducing the students to OSS. Though I havent had much interaction with the students yet, i believe that most of the 2nd year guys are not familiar with Gnu/Linux. >>> >>>PS: Im new here >>> >>>Balachandran Chandrasekharan >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Fsf-friends mailing list >>>Fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in >>>http://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends >>> >>> >>> > > > > > >

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Fund Raising for FSF-India
by Ramanraj K 15 Dec '03

15 Dec '03

__ Explicit Note: These are *MY* own views__ Recently, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay <gajo(a)softhome.net <mailto:gajo%40softhome.net?Subject=%5BFsf-friends%5D%20About%20the%20preliminary%20draft%20i%20had%20sent%20in&In-Reply-To=>> wrote about extending the reach of FSF-India. Directly connected with this, is the question of raising funds for FSF-India. The issue does stare upon our faces, and we ought not to skirt this issue. I putforth here, what strikes me as correct. Please do send in your suggestions. I am sure FSF-India, could deal with this issue in a better way, when this is done voluntarily by all of us. 1) Donations: This, the FSF-India invites through its web site. It should help if FSF-India also draws up and publishes a budget. Any donation from even a mere Rs. 10^0 to even > Rs.10^10 should help. We cannot underestimate the value of even 10^0, when the population of India is more than10^9, and if each Indian were to contribute just 10^0, FSF-India would have Rs. 100 Crores at its disposal. But, since that is flying too high, more pragmatically individuals may be comfortable with the idea of contributing anything from 10^2to6, and it would be nice if FSF-India, could give away CD's or a DVD of stable releases of top software from the Free Software Directory to donors. Corporates and governments who use and earn considerable profits from Free Software, could start at 10^5 and share whatever they could to promote FSF-India. We have about two dozen states, and if each could send as little as anything from 10^6to9, that should build a solid corpus. Please always remember that, when we part with our wealth to FSF, all of us end up becoming more wealthy! 2) Free Software CD's/DVD's: I have never seen a GNU/Linux box in Chennai. I have to place orders to shops in Bangalore if I want a GNU/Linux box. FSF-India could package and distribute Free Software CD's/DVD's along with printed documentation, through major book stores. This could generate revenue. For all that I know, FSF-India may be the distribution point for the whole of Asia. Now, that could also earn foreign exchange for India. 3) Posters: Our friend Rakesh Ambati, suggested posters of the Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace by Perry John Barlow. We could have posters of GPL under the GNU head logo [I would frame one for my office], and may be of St. iGNUtius RMS with his famous lines: I bless your computer my child I'm saint iGNUtius of the church of Emacs. Emacs started out as a text editor but it became a way of life for many computer users and then a religion. infact there was an alt.religion.emacs newsgroup back around 1990. I don't know what it was used for because I never read net news. but so,emacs became a religion. we even have a great sism between two different versions of emacs. and now we have saints. fortunately no gods yet. To join the church of emacs you must repeat the confession of the faith three times. you must say, "There's no system other than the GNU. and Linux is one of its kernels." The church of Emacs has some advantages compared with some other churches because to be a saint in the church of Emacs does not require celibacy however it does require making a moral commitment to live a life of purity and then living by it. You must Exorcise the evil proprietary operating systems from all the computers you control. and then install a wholly free operating system instead. because wholly can be spelled in more than one ways. and then only install free software on top of that. if you make this commitments and live by it, then you too would be a saint and you too may eventually have a halo, if you can find one because we don't make them anymore Now sometimes people ask me "In the Church of Emacs, is it a sin to use vi?" The answer is that "Using a free version of vi is not a sin its a penance." and people sometimes ask me if my halo is really an old computer disk. this is no computer disk. this is my halo. But it was a computer disk in a previous life. so, 'happy hacking' every one! The ilugc has the full text of the above speech at: http://www.chennailug.org/rms-chennai.txt The first line, "I bless your computer my child", touched my heart because the blessing comes alive with a load of GNU free software. I have removed the [laughter] tags that you will find in the link above. More ideas for posters are welcome. There is scope for audio tapes and cd's too: including the free software song by RMS, and other free songs that can inspire and relax us. 3) T-Shirts, Shoes, Footballs and a whole range of sports gear: Arun proposed Khadi Kurtas. I particularly request Footballs. Whenever we see somebody kicking well, we could send them a FSF Football and write "Wow, you kick so well! I am impressed. Please kick well so that we can together reach the goal". Some will use Free Software but refuse to promote it. They get free kicks! We could have a special offer on a pair of Footballs, where the purchaser pays for two at a discount but is delivered only one, and the other is sent to the deserving candidate for free kicks. This special offer could be called "Share your kicks!". Our OpenSource friends may promote a whole range of events based on the FSF sports gear: International tournaments, open matches, etc - oh! what fun it will be! But since sports gear cannot be copied like software, these efforts will bring home wealth to FSF coffers to promote Free Software. With the FSF sports gear, regardless of the players, we can always reach and win the goal of sharing the true spirit. This is Christmas Season. We could send some Footballs to Santa Claus so that he could give away to children for free. But we should also watch out for entitites with the initials of Santa Claus who run after the balls they have given away for free all these years! 4) Free Computers Junction: Providing a junction for disposal of unwanted or discarded computer hardware and software that is still usable, could help people who need these for development efforts. This may be just a mailing list to start with. This is a kind of wealth, and could also be used by FSF-India, say in fairs for demo purposes. Now, please contribute something more and add to the above fund raising. <mailto:gajo%40softhome.net?Subject=%5BFsf-friends%5D%20About%20the%20preliminary%20draft%20i%20had%20sent%20in&In-Reply-To=>

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Fsf-friends December 2003