September 2008 - Fsf-friends

Internet, tech skills growing quietly in Goa...
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 02 Sep '24

02 Sep '24

INTERNET, TECH SKILLS GROWING QUIETLY IN GOA PANJIM, April 30: Goa's BSNL internet service provider is already providing some 3000 broadband connections in the state, and roughly another 24,000 people dial-up to get access the Net using this central government-run service. These figures emerged during an informal discussion at the monthly meeting of the India Linux Users Group (Goa), a network promoting Free Software and Open Source in the state. ILUG-Goa, which holds its meetings usually on the fourth Saturday of each month at the Goa Science Centre at Miramar, sees a range of tech issues -- usually directly related to Free Software and Open Source in Goa. During it's meet on April 29, a range of issues came up for discussion, from how to partition your hard-disk (to install GNU/Linux side-by-side with Windows), to software tools to ehance productivity, and various internet and broadband options available to users in diverse parts of Goa. For instance, there are some useful Free Software tools to monitor your bandwidth usage on BSNL's broadband. One such tool is available for free download at http://tinyurl.com/qgu9p Called the Data One Broadband Statistics, this is a screen-scraper written using Perl to download usage statistics of BSNL's Data One (www.bsnl.co.in/service/dataone.htm) broadband service and total it. Generally, BSNL (www.bsnl.co.in) allows only the Microsoft-based IE and has no monthly total. But trust Indian software talent to find a work-around. This solution comes from the Free Software/Open Source network in Chennai. Meanwhile, the Goa free software network stays connected and announces its event via http://iluggoaannounce.notlong.com There are no fees for joining, all are welcome, and encouraged to form parallel user-groups in diverse parts of the state. Meanwhile, the Fedora Core 5 Free Software distribution has just become available on DVD in Goa. Number of foreign magazines are also available. Members of ILUG-Goa such as engineer Bijon Shaha and software pro Arvind Yadav gave diverse views on techies-only distros like 'Gentoo'. Debopriyo 'DP' Sarkar pointed to a 'mindmap' of various Free Software distributions or 'distros' available, which was illustrated at linuxhelp.blogspot.com Earlier, there was a brief presentation on FreeMind. FreeMind is a premier free mind-mapping software written in Java. It has the potential of playing the role of a high productivity tool. Operation and navigation of FreeMind is faster because of one-click "fold/unfold" and "follow link" operations. Other members raised a range of issues -- from how to get started in GNU/Linux, to playing around with tools like StumbleUpon, and how to encourage Free Software usage in schools and educational institutions. Remy Furtado of Rosary College, Navelim expressed an interest in working on the Free Software tool Moodle, ideal for distance education, as the Goa University moves to a pattern of semisterisation. Goa Engineering College's Prof George Easaw has done work on this platform, as have others. Reacting unofficially, BSNL officials said Goa now had six STMS 155 MBps connectivity, which was resulting in a speedy expansion of broadband to many parts of the state. But for broadband facilities to become available in village areas, at least 60 subscribers were needed to make operations viable. So far, broadband from BSNL is available in a growing number of areas in Goa: Panjim, Vasco (except Cortalim, but including Sada, Mangor, Bogmalo, Sancoale and other areas), Ponda, Bambolim, Merces, Dona Paula, Porvorim, Mapusa town, Calangute-Candolim, and Saligao, among others. Equipment has already been installed in Aldona exchange, and broadband facilities are expected to go functional -- ------------------------------------------------------------- | India Linux Users' Group, Goa | | Join the friendly user group | | Mail list http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ilug-goa/join | ---------------------------------------------------------- | | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teach-yourself-linux | | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ilug-goa-announce | | http://www.iosn.net/country/india/organizations/ilug-goa/ | ------------------------------------------------------------- , , / \ .-. * SOFTWARE ((__-^^-,-^^-__)) (. .) * FREEDOM `-_---' `---_-' / V \ * SHARING `--|o` 'o|--' // \\ \ ` / /( )\ KNOWLEDGE IS POWER ): :( '.^^_^^.' SHARE IT EQUITABLY :o_o: \_/ \_/ "-"

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Careers in FLOSS... (Dec 2003 issue of LFY)
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 06 Jun '24

06 Jun '24

=========================================== LINUXForYou * Dec 2003 (Vol 1 No 10) In India Rs 50 (with CD) http://www.linuxforu.com Pages 102 * US$7.95 0 74470584957 =========================================== THIS ISSUE has probably reached your city. Saw it in Bangalore, and also got a complimentary copy from the LFY team at LinuxBangalore2003. But when I reached back to Goa on Dec 4, it wasn't in as yet. So it might take time to reach 'small town' India... FN REVIEWED: Mandrake 9.2 * PhProjekt * StarOffice 7.0 COMPUTERS AT TIS HAZARI, the session courts for the city of New Delhi, are being shifted over to Linux, courtesy the National Informatics Centre. - Rahul Chopra in this month's editorial. LINUX LEARNING CENTRE at Bangalore is offering courses in administration, security, development (internals and programming essentials, programming with Qt, device driver programming, MySQL & PHP), RHCE and Red Hat rapid track certification. www.linuxlearningcentre.com DotGNU RELEASES CD: It can now be used to implement application programs and Web services in C# and C applications under multiple operating systems, including GNU/Linux, FreeBSC, MacOS, MS Windows. The 219 MB release 0.1 CD is available as a free download at http://download.freedom.biz/dotgnu/dotgnu-0.1-cdrom.iso.gz.torrent e-Bridge calls itself "the new state-of-art training facility from eSpark Infotech is now open in the heart of Bangalore". It's offering embedded Linux courses (Linux fundamentals, programming Linux, embedded C & Linux, realtime C & Linux, Linux internals, device drivers, networking) and DSP courses (DSP fundamentals, TI/analog dev programming, audio/video, image processing, bio-medical systems). www.ebridgesolutions.net Linux.net provides a free e-mail service to those who want an e-mail address that ends in '@linux.net' MAJOR UPDATES and releases: OpenNA Linux 1.0, Gibraltar Firewall 1.0, Xandros Desktop 2.0, Onebase Linux 2.0, CUPS 1.120rc6. CAN YOU MAKE money with open source? Registration entails a "nominal fee" of Rs 5000 for a three-day conference. http://www.linuxasia2004.com/attendees/ February 11-13, 2004, New Delhi. SEND IN YOUR favourite slogans for a tee-shirt, and win five free copies of the shirt... LFYedit at efyindia.com MONEY CAN't buy respect, says Robert Adkins. Some of us might have met this guy at LB2003 in Bangalore. He's the CTO of Technetra Corp, and an advocate and implementer of FLOSS solutions for government. He can be contacted at radkins at technetra.com CAREERS WITH FLOSS: The number of students opting for courses in Open Source is growing steadily, even as industry experts predict a growing need for trained professionals in this expanding field. EXIT RED HAT, ENTER FEDORA: It's official now; the free (of cost) version of Red Hat Linux will not be available anymore. This has created a lot of FUD in an already unstable environment, thanks to the SCO episode. But is Red Hat closed for good? WEB-BASED COLLABORATION SOFTWARE: PHProjekt is an easy-to-install collaboration suite, which runs on the open source platform and databases. As the design of the system is developer-friendly, adding new features and components is a piece of cake. STAROFFICE: The latest version of Sun's office suite, StarOffice 7, may just be the right solution for the cost-conscious user. It loads faster than the earlier version, and sports some noticeable improvements. IN THE LFY CD THIS MONTH: Slackware (the "oldest Linux distro") and a range of GNU software for Windows users. FALLING BACK on backup systems. MAKING ADOPTION OF Linux in the enterprise easy. www.linux4e.com Business partners required: http://wwww.linux4e.com/partners ooWRITER HELPS YOU create your own templates and styles so that you can work with documents easily. Open Source is key to IBM's vision of computing. User empowerment is key to Microsoft's, writes Alolita Sharma USING DATABASE functions in Calc, a tutorial. (Wish there were more how-tos for the user in this mag! --FN) HALDIA DOCKS: it has a uniquely designed Linux installation with an active-active cluster set up, which is considered the best of its kind. This has ensured efficiency and cost-effectiveness. BASIC UNIX commands and concepts: an extract from *Running Linux* (Shroff Publishers, Pp 674 only Rs 425 in India). VxWorks and LynxOS are definitely the biggest embedded operating systems in use today. But slowly they are acknowledging the power of GNU/Linux and how it can help them maximise deployments. HELP LINUX GO INDIAN: By using various translation tools, you can join Language translation groups working across India to help translate GNU/Linux into your language. EXPERT INTRODUCTION: Multi-threaded programming under Linux. KICKSTART YOUR Linux installation (Part I): Installing Red Hat Linux on multiple machines one after another can be quite tedious. To avoid answering the same question over and over again, try the KickStart method, as it does not need any user intervention. WRITE CHEQUES. NOT JUST BOOKS: Niyam Bhushan on how anybody can turn thoughts into words, and words into wealth. NFS CLIENTS for Windows. OpenSSL PACKAGE offers a vast crypto library of algorithms WAIT QUEUES in Linux device drivers UNDERSTANDING recursive sub-routines INDIA-RELATED NEWS: HP launches GNU/Linux laptop Mandrake's latest distribution Oracle announces 10g for GNU/Linux Delixus offers India Linux CxProtect anti-virus mailing solution for mail-servers Trade management system from Network Programs Netweb Technologies unveils Tyrone MRO-Tek rolls out Network Management Systems Review of FLOSS at BangaloreIT.com =========================================== DISCLOSURE: This journalist (FN) writes a monthly column for LFY and gets paid for it. Promoting awareness about the content of LFY however is not part of the job, and is carried on with the intention spreading awareness about FLOSS among different GNU/Linux user groups in India. -- Frederick Noronha : http://www.fredericknoronha.net : When we speak of free Freelance Journalist : http://www.bytesforall.org : software we refer to Ph 0091.832.2409490 : Cell 0 9822 122436 : freedom, not price.

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Microsoft entry through ACM
by CK Raju 07 Oct '08

07 Oct '08

"..Microsoft has signed a licensing agreement with ACM providing all ACM Student Members with access, at no charge, to a variety (~ 100) of software packages through its Microsoft Developer Network Academic Alliance (MSDNAA). The goal of this program is to get these tools into the hands of current students. All active ACM Student Members are eligible to participate in the ACM/MSDNAA Program..." http://www.acm.org/membership/student/msdnaa-faq CK Raju

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Test mail
by achu.kulangara＠gmail.com 30 Sep '08

30 Sep '08

Please ignore. This is a test mail - Anil

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Re: [Fsf-friends] [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated
by Praveen A 30 Sep '08

30 Sep '08

2008/9/29 Anilkumar KV <anilankv(a)gmail.com>: Anil, This would be my last mail on my thread. As Arun said on fsf-friends, lets wait for the official position of the FSF India. > 2008/9/29 Praveen A <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> >> >> Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or >> are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising >> the event? > > > Yes, Kiran Chandra had involved in organising the Hyderabad event. In > fact he was the main organiser of that event. He had involved in it as an > activists of swetcha.in, and not in his capacity as FSF-India director. The > Organisers of Kochi event are constantly in touch with Kiran and other > organisers of Hyderabad event, and it is as per their decision, Kerala and > subsequently Kochi was selected as the venue for the second meet. The > organisers in Kochi has been now assigned to organise the next meet as a > result of the discussion which Hyderabad organisers initiated. I was not aware that Kiran was not representing FSF India but just Swecha. This was the major reason for my confusion. But isn't Swetcha a project by FSF AP? (Swecha.org has FSF Andhra Pradesh written below the logo). I am curious why FSF India was not involved in organising this time when one of its board of directors was actively involved in organising both events. >> >> 'm amazed at the tone of the organizers >> of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free >> Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role >> played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming >> the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in >> Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives >> of the organisers about this event. > > As far as I know, none of the mails from Kochi organisers had any > intention to denounce or discredit activities undertaken by any other free > software organisers or activists. If you sensed like that, please let me > know, corrective action is always ensured. No where it is claimed by any of > the Kochi organisers that efforts to promote Free Software happened last > year. I was referring to the claim by the organisers that the only National Level conference on Free Software after FSF India formed was the Hyderabad event. I felt it was discrediting the efforts of so many of the events that happened in time time. I hope the organisers would acknowledge the contributions of other events and communities in helping promote Software Freedom. > > In fact it is your message that is making confusion among the free > software friends, which comes without collecting actual facts. You could > have at least get information from Kiran before you accusing the Kochi > organisers. Please confirm with him whether the proposed Kochi event have > any legacy of Hyderabad event. I am sorry for creating this confusion. I was not expecting an FSF India board member leading a Free Software conference not in his capacity as a FSF India representative. I was also mistaken that Swecha is not independent of FSF AP. Thanks for all the clarifications. It helps to keep things in perspective. >> >> >> Why would they not consult with the community? >> Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long >> time? >> Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences >> that has happened and happening all over the country? > > > The assumptions prompted you to ask these questions itself is based on wrong > facts. Hence they stands void. >> >> I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal >> organisers and who suggested the name? > > Nobody suggested any exclusions. In fact there is no exclusions indented at > all. The organisers of of the Hyderabad event are part of the decision by > which the next venue and organisers are selected. >> >> This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. >> This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux >> kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. > > You feel it as a problem because you still assume that FSF-India organised > the Hyderabad event, which is not true. > > Your interpretation with example is also wrong due to your ignorance on > organisers of Hyderabad event. It may more resembles on seeking support from > Linus, or whoever it may be, for a second stage of a project, for which he > has extended support for the first stage. > >> I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner >> that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in >> public mailing lists. > > Ok. I appreciate your spirit, however whenever such concern arises please > confirm the base facts with the concerned, otherwise it will create unwanted > confusion among the Free Software community. > > Even then to clear these confusions, let FSF-India directors or secretary > respond to this debate. OK. Lets wait and see what is the official response of FSF India. I apologise for any confusions I have created because of my misunderstandings about Kiran Chandra's role in organising Hyderabad event. I hope the suggestions are taken positively and I wish all the best for the event. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign

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Has FSF-India lost its relevance?
by Jack As 30 Sep '08

30 Sep '08

Hi, I ask the above because of what I see happening... We have an organisation capable of taking free software to the common man, bridging the digital divide, building a better knowledge society... but 1. The members of the FSF-I work group have not met nor changed in ages..(see the Who's who for reference) 2. The members of the FSF-I and a few others throw accusations against teams trying to do something to popularise free software by using some frivolous technicalities... 3. Just 5 men on the FSF-I board who do nothing but talk a lot(paper tigers)... More than a CPIM takeover I am worried about FSF-I rotting to death due to inactivity... @ The board of directors Kindly replace the people who do nothing(including your kind selves) with those who can. Wishing you to do what is right in the best interest of the movement, Jack As

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Invitation to The National Public Meeting on Software Patents
by Anivar Aravind 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

*Please Circulate widely* With Usual apologies for X-posting On behalf of the organizers, Free Software Users Group- Bangalore cordially invites you to The National Public Meeting on Software Patents ==================================== ==Venue== 2nd Floor, Ecumenical Resource Centre, United Theological College, Millers Road, Benson Town. (Behind Cantonment Railway Station) Bangalore–560046 ==Time== 10:00–17:00 Saturday, October 4, 2008 Software patents in India occupy a contentious and indeterminate legal space. While recent amendments to the Patent Act have sought to bring our law in conformity with WTO-mandated standards, these amendments have shied from pronouncing conclusively on the patentability of software. The result is an equivocation in the law which is being wrestled aggressively and effectively by corporate interests, patent attorneys and the Patent Office in favour of granting software patents. Unheard, and so unrepresented in this powerful triad are the interests of millions of citizen-consumers who are either presumed too ignorant to be credited with a view on the issue, or are presumed to be irrelevant to the determination of issues which are seen as purely "business" matters (as opposed to "citizen" matters). Software is everywhere you look (and many places you never think of looking). With the explosion of low-cost computing devices (think mobile phones and iPods), software has leaked out of its traditional home—the PC—and begun infiltrating various aspects of our lives. From traffic signals to toilet commodes in some countries, refrigerators to railway tickets, vacuum cleaners and electronic voting machines, TVs, refrigerators and electronic pacemakers, inanimate objects of all sizes are humming to themselves, chattering amongst themselves in an intricate, highly complex tongue called 'software' that few of us can ever hope to understand. On the impulses of software, we stop or move on streets, fill up on petrol, and elect governments. Someone's heart beats. Someone else receives land records on a village kiosk. Someone is standing by helplessly for fourteen years (the un-evergreened term of a patent) because software failed to factor in her disability. There are big stakes involved in the control of software in an era when software is becoming increasingly central to the way we humans organize our lives and inhabit a democracy. At one level this is about preserving the right of agency and self-direction that citizens have in their own lives. At another, it is about the right not to be silenced when our long-fought democratic republic is at risk of being diminished by a few lines of software in a machine. Whether or not we are all in fact capable of deciphering software is inessential. Those of us who are ought not to be denied the freedom to interrogate, tinker and improve. Patents have the effect of adding an additional layer of 'protection' to already existing copyright protection of software, while simultaneously overriding the various affordances and safeguards built into copyright law. For instance, the right of "fair dealing" under copyright law permits users to examine and modify any software in order to make it interoperable with other software. This is an extremely potent right that reasserts our right to intervene in the shaping of our surroundings. It is also one of the rights that is most imperiled by software patents. The present "public hearing" on software patents is an invitation for dialogue on the various issue surrounding software patents. Although the Patent Office had scheduled a public consultation on its Draft Patent Manual to be held in Bangalore in August this year, that meeting was abruptly cancelled (or postponed indefinitely, or to an unannounced date—we can't be sure) without any reasons having been assigned by the Patent Office. This signals either of two unpleasant scenarios: first, the Patent Office is proceeding with its consultations in an extremely mechanical fashion, not intending inputs received in the course of these consultations to qualitatively impact their functioning in any way; or secondly, perhaps the Patent Office underestimates the amount that citizens living in the IT capital of India might have to say on the subject of software patents. It is our attempt in this public hearing to organize the kind of consultation that the Indian Patent Office ought to have conducted. We hope also hereby, to serve as a gentle but firm reminder to the Patent Office that its task is as yet undone. ==Agenda== 1000–1100 Presentation on the principles of patent law and software patents Sudhir Krishnaswamy (National Law School) Prabir Purkayastha (Delhi Science Forum) Nagarjuna G. (Free Software Foundation of India) 1100–1130 Discussion on software patents in the Indian context: Indian Patent Act, and the draft patent manual Prashant Iyengar (Alternative Law Forum) Venkatesh Hariharan (Red Hat) 1130–1150 Tea break 1150–1240 Discussion on patents and the development sector (freedom of speech, open standards, healthcare, biotech, agro-sector, etc.) Sunil Abraham (Centre for Internet and Society) Anivar Aravind (Movingrepublic, FSUG-Bangalore) Others 1240–1300 Presentation on the software patents that have been granted so far in India Pranesh Prakash (Centre for Internet and Society) 1300–1400 Lunch break 1400–1700 Open House T. Ramakrishna (National Law School) Abhas Abhinav (DeepRoot Linux) Joseph Mathew (Special It advisor, Govt of Kerala) Sreekanth S. Rameshaiah (Mahiti Infotech) Vinay Sreenivasa (IT for Change) Any others who wish to speak ==Organizers== Centre for Internet and Society; Free Software Users Group-Bangalore; Free Software Foundation of India; SPACE; IT for Change; Alternative Law Forum; Delhi Science Forum; Movingrepublic; Sarai/CSDS; OpenSpace, ; Swathanthra Malayalam Computing; Servelots - Janastu; Mahiti; DeepRoot Linux; Wiki Ocean; Turtle Linux Lab; Zyxware Technologies; INSAF; Aneka Anivar Aravind +91 9449009908 -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Has FSF-India lost its relevance?
by Deepa Paul |ദീപാ പോള്‍ 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

Vikram vincent wrote: > But you definitely owe me an apology. I did not expect such cheapness from you. After reading the the whole thread and forwarded mail from Kerala mailing lists, i feel praveen's position is justified.He made a lot of brilliant points in the forwarded . i feel the below quote from praveen shows the crux of kerala issue <quote> I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal organisers and who suggested the name? This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in public mailing lists. </quote> In this thread i agree with positions raised by Anand babu and shyam I am considering Jack as's mail as an effort to reduce the importance of FSFIndia in defending freedom of users in ongoing campaigns against introducing software patentents At the same i agree that FSF India need to be more active . It needs support and willingness from board to accept it and formulate clear guidelines for volunteers and supporters. I request all to keep calm.. flames will not help us to archive anything In Solidarity -- Deepa paul Researcher

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Fwd: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated
by Anivar Aravind 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anilkumar KV <anilankv(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:07 PM Subject: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Praveen, 2008/9/29 Praveen A <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> > > Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or > are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising > the event? Yes, Kiran Chandra had involved in organising the Hyderabad event. In fact he was the main organiser of that event. He had involved in it as an activists of swetcha.in, and not in his capacity as FSF-India director. The Organisers of Kochi event are constantly in touch with Kiran and other organisers of Hyderabad event, and it is as per their decision, Kerala and subsequently Kochi was selected as the venue for the second meet. The organisers in Kochi has been now assigned to organise the next meet as a result of the discussion which Hyderabad organisers initiated. > > 'm amazed at the tone of the organizers > of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free > Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role > played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming > the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in > Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives > of the organisers about this event. As far as I know, none of the mails from Kochi organisers had any intention to denounce or discredit activities undertaken by any other free software organisers or activists. If you sensed like that, please let me know, corrective action is always ensured. No where it is claimed by any of the Kochi organisers that efforts to promote Free Software happened last year. In fact it is your message that is making confusion among the free software friends, which comes without collecting actual facts. You could have at least get information from Kiran before you accusing the Kochi organisers. Please confirm with him whether the proposed Kochi event have any legacy of Hyderabad event. > > > Why would they not consult with the community? > Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long time? > Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences > that has happened and happening all over the country? The assumptions prompted you to ask these questions itself is based on wrong facts. Hence they stands void. > > I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal > organisers and who suggested the name? Nobody suggested any exclusions. In fact there is no exclusions indented at all. The organisers of of the Hyderabad event are part of the decision by which the next venue and organisers are selected. > > This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. > This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux > kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. You feel it as a problem because you still assume that FSF-India organised the Hyderabad event, which is not true. Your interpretation with example is also wrong due to your ignorance on organisers of Hyderabad event. It may more resembles on seeking support from Linus, or whoever it may be, for a second stage of a project, for which he has extended support for the first stage. > I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner > that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in > public mailing lists. Ok. I appreciate your spirit, however whenever such concern arises please confirm the base facts with the concerned, otherwise it will create unwanted confusion among the Free Software community. Even then to clear these confusions, let FSF-India directors or secretary respond to this debate. - Anil --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "വിവരവിചാരം" group. To post to this group, send email to vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vivaravicharam+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vivaravicharam?hl=ml -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

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Fwd: [smc-discuss] Fwd: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated
by Anivar Aravind 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

In the light of recent discussions in fsf-friends, i am forwarding the whole thread of discussions happening in Kerala mailinglists Anivar Forwarded conversation Subject: [smc-discuss] Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated ------------------------ From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/23 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Web site for the National Free Software Convention, 15, 16 November has bee inaugurated Here is the link http://nfm2008.atps.in/ JOBY JOHN jobyatps(a)gmail.com eiids(a)yahoo.com 91-9446549598 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് - എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിനു് എന്റെ ഭാഷ സംരംഭം: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc വെബ്‌സൈറ്റ് : http://smc.org.in IRC ചാനല്‍ : #smc-project @ freenode പിരിഞ്ഞു പോകാന്‍: smc-discuss-unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- ---------- From: *Anivar Aravind* <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/23 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: Some mistakes in About page It says RMS participated in Hyderabad conference. As far as i remember RMS was not part of Hyderabad Conference. RMS was not in india at that time. See news on Hyderabd Convention (From my Del.icio.us memmory :-)) http://www.thehindu.com/2007/03/05/stories/2007030516130500.htm http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/04/stories/2007030411510400.htm Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown FOSS industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/24 To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com mistake will be corrected 2008/9/24 Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/25 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com Cc: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com please see this comment Dear All, This comment is with respect to the observation that those who didnot contribute anything to Free software movement are the organisers of the conference. In fact, the term organising committee for the Kochi conference doesnot mean to say that they are the organisers of the movement. They are organisers of the event. With this hosting of the event they too become part of the movement. This is a process of enlisting the support of wider sections of the people. So Long as our itntention is to enlist the support of everybody that is interested in FREEDOM of software and knowledge, why should we blame those who come forward to host the conference, for the reason that they have not contributed so far? No body can highjack the movement to wrong tracks. The movement is so strong by virtue of the ideals over which it is founded and the credit will always remain with the FSF. The factual errors pointed out are being corrected. Thomas They got it wrong for the simple reason that these 'so called > organizers' were not even in the picture when the first conference was > conducted. Never thought people could become this shameless. > > James > -- > > HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! > ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM To: Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> I thought he was questioning FSF India :-( (and I was kind of shocked). So luckily I added my doubt at the end... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> Date: 2008/9/25 Subject: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com Free Software movement has come this far only because of the selfless efforts of communities and individual users. New groups and organizations coming up in support of this movement is always a welcome sign. The question here is an ethical one. The organizers have every right to hold a conf on FS. But tell me how are they morally justified in calling this the 2nd National Conf on FS? The 1st National Conf was conducted by FSF India, Swecha and Dept. of History University of Hyderabad. If they really wanted to conduct a sequel to the 1st conf, they could have done so in consultation with the initial organizers. The least they can do at this point is to admit their mistake and rename their conf. to something else. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ilug-tvm" group. To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ilug-tvm-unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com For details visit the website: www.ilug-tvm.org or the google group page: http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign ---------- From: *Anivar Aravind* <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:05 PM To: Praveen A <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> I understood his point. It is a valid one Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/26 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> Date: Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 8:35 AM Subject: [ATPS] Re: Fwd: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in>, atps <ATPS(a)googlegroups.com> The confusion is very clear now. The example quoted is that of a political party, the CPI(M). It should be with the blessings of that party that the Coimbatore party organisation hosted and organised the congress. But here it is not the FSF annual that we are holding in Kochi. It is a conference on Free Software. We are trying to get the participation of activits from across the country, with experts putting their views before them, so that the movement spreads across the country, which is not the activity undertaken by FSF. This was done in Hyderabad too. Hence this is second edition of that. This is not replication of institution or activities of FSF India. There is no conflict with FSF activities or ideals. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:14 AM, James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > > > > As per Arun of FSF India himself, > > > > Free software activists in AP has organised the convention at Hyderabad. > > FSF india only supported it and welcomed all the Free software activists > to > > the event. > > > > Then why free software activists in Kochi cant host and organise the next > > conference. It too will have to be supported by FSF India. > > > > The 19th Party Congress (CPM) was held in Coimbtore this year. It was > organized by the Cadres of that place, with the blessings of CPM. > > Do you think that it is possible for some over-exited cadres in Kochi > to announce a 20th Congress on their own next year? I don't want to > elaborate on this. Hope you get the point. -- Joseph Thomas thomasatps(a)gmail.com, 9447738369. ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/27 To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/26 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: Does that mean, a political party, CPI(M), organization is more important than a civil society organisation? Does that mean only a party organization needs to be respected? That is the exact problem we are talking about. When some one (who was not associated with the first edition) say it is the second edition of an event conducted by FSF India (along with other organizations), people believe it would be similar to the earlier event. But you have now stated it is not the same. If the event is not same as the first edition, how can you call it the second edition? Wow!! That was a good judgment of what the FSF has been doing all these years !!! You want us to believe that? A statement from someone who does not even know who organized the first edition in Hyderabad. But taking over the legacy of first national conference from FSF. If you believe taking over the ownership of second edition of an event organized by FSF India without discussing with them is not conflict, then I will have to agree with you. We are not contesting the fact that the event is going to promote Free Software. What we have a problem with is hijacking the legacy and name of first national conference on Free Software __WITHOUT__ discussing with the organisers of the first nationa conference. This has led people to believe there is something else is going on behind the scenes and we are asking for clarity. If it was announced as First National Conference organised by 'so and so' organisations at Kochi, it would not have been a problem. So I would suggest you to discuss with the organisers of the first national conference and ask them if they are ok with using their legacy. Or remove the "second" part from the name and have it as your first conference. -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/28 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com James Mathew asked : What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual event of FSF India? thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says : I am not undermining and under estimating the great FSF organisation by assuming that it was inactive during the period from 2000 to 2007 to the extend to hold its annual in Hyderabad in 2007. James Mathew said : "..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again how did you know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India? thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says : What is done by Hyderabad organisers has not been done earlier by FSF, mobilising activists from all over India. For knowing that one need not ask somebody at FSF India. All are watching and understanding what is FSF India. James Mathew said : Please refer to this link. http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.… The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more weight than a quick mail from Arun. The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS, avoiding all this confusion. thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says ; The website of swecha website lists FSF India as one of the organisers or even the main organiser. Yes, they may have their own assessment of the assistance obtained from FSF or the role played by it. Can you please quote any FSF India document to show that it held its first or any subsequent annual in Hyderabad during March .2007. Again, the question of ethics and rights are being raised. Why FSF India should have this sort of Identity crisis ? By such questions and mails from those in FSF India confusion is created among the supporters and activists. Better FSF India shed its over emphasis on its rights. The emphasis on its right, in effect, mean the right to contain, restrict and prevent advancement of the Free Software movement. FSF is a respectable organisation and its name and fame shall not be destroyed by such stand taken by FSF India, please. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:41 AM, James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > To: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> > What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual > event of FSF India?"..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again > how did you > know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India?Please refer to this link. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.… > > The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more > weight than a quick mail from Arun. > > The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to > contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we > could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS, > avoiding all this confusion. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 4:18 PM To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : The above words doesnot give any such idea that political party is more important than a civil society organisation. The point raised in that respect is that coimbatore conference of CPI(M) was its annual, which can only further be followed up by that party alone. But the Hyderabad conference is not the annual of FSF India, it is an event conducted by the Hyderabad activists, efforts being made to enlist the participation of activists from all over the country. Had it been the annual of FSF, what we are doing now in Kochi, ie . Naming it as 2nd conference is absolutely wrong. But to us the Hyderabad even was not the annual of FSF. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : Holding conference in series doesnot mean to repeat what is done earlier. The subsequent events will be much advanced with more participation and more results. The content discussed also will vary. Again, the point is Hyderabad event is, in praveens own term, organised by civil society. FSF is only one of the organisation representing a section of civil society. No organisation can claim to be whole and sole representative of civil society. Kochi conference also is being organised by representative of civil society, without any tall claim of representing all, but in any case representing vast majority. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : The comment made by vivaravicharam earlier is justified by the fact that FSF has not organised any such event other than may be in Trivandrum all through he period of 2000 (Year of institution of FSF India) and 2007, the year of Hyderabad conference. This is why it is commented that FSF India has not been organising conferences in different parts of India with the aim of expanding the movement. They in FSF support, serve, offer consultancy and what ever they do to those who approach them. The vast majority of Indians are still unaware of the very issue of Software Freedom. FSF India, instead of disputing the rights of others to organise a conference or do something for the expansion of the movement, shall support all such activities going on in the country, as it has done to Hyderabad community. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : We both hold the same point. Either of us is correct. To me Hyderabad event is conducted by Free Software Activits of Hyderabad (AP) with the support of FSF India. It was not initiated, called for, or organised at the initiative of FSF India. On the contrary it was initiated, called for, support of FSF India sought for and organised by Hyderabad Activists including FSF members. Can any body show any of the FSF India document (I dont mean the site and documents of Hyderabad event ) to show that FSF India organised the Hyderabad event ? vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : Is Praveen arguing that Hyderabad event was the first national conference of FSF India ? Just reconsider it. We have no claims. We only do what we felt correct. The questions, doubts, confusion etc were created by others who questions the right to hold the conference and name it the 2nd. We are not claiming the legacy of any body. We have only named our conference 2nd to that of Hyderabad conference only, because that was the first conference that was organised by activists of any city with earnest effort to organise participation from all over the country, irrespective of the success/failure aspect. Efforts were made. They were successful to a great extend despite the limitations of being the first one. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : So far, all are arguing for FSF India and contesting the right of Kochi organisers to name it as 2nd conference. No body talks on behalf of Hyderabad University, SWECHA and the FREEDOM activits of Hyderabad who is not connected with FSF activities and even Free Software Activities. Organisers of Kochi conference are not claiming the owner ship of even this Kochi conference, leave alone Hyderabad one. Software freedom activists shall, at aleast, know the difference between ownership and right to ownership. Here, we don't claim any right to ownership. No claim of owner ship even. We are only serving the cause of FSF. But FSF India is annoyed, worried and agrieved of their right to ownership (!). We give the ownership right of Kochi conference to the civil society, which belongs to FSF as well. But we shall not surrender our right to our duty, the duty to work for FREEDOM of every body, not only that of software, but knowledge and civil in general. Let FSF claim the right of ownership (!) of this conference as well (!) by supporting it as they have done (?) in Hyderabad. Why creating confusion among the activits ? for whom ? And For what ? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/28 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: The annual was just an example. It does not mean that only annuals conducted by an organization needs to be respected by others trying to conduct sequels. It is just a strawman argument http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument That is the problem here. Everyone who participated in the first event will think it is similar to the first event. Also people will associate the event to the ideas and policies of the first event. Now when some other party claims it is the second edition, we can only hope it would have the same policy, especially when the first organizers are not involved? I did not say this. What I said was "Does that mean, a political "Civil society" and "a civil society organisation" is not the same. ഇതു് ആടും ആട്ടിന്‍കാട്ടവും ഒന്നാണെന്നു് പറയുന്നതു് പോലെയാണു്. another strawman argument I could give just a few names of the conferences that FSF has done like * http://gplv3.gnu.org.in/ International conference on GPLv3 (now don't tell me international conferences don't count :-) ) * http://fsfs.hipatia.net/ Free Software, Free Society conference (again international) I'm amazed at the enthusiasm you are showing to judge the activities of FSF India when you don't even seem to be aware of the event happened in Thiruvananthapuram 3 years back. I don't have to continue batting for FSF India, since the community knows how much it has contributed to promoting Free Software in India. This is news to me !! Thanks to enlightening me. I agree with this whole heartedly. But the way to do is not by undermining the existing community by hijacking their legacy but by joining hands with them. As far as I know the event is initiated and organised by one of the members of board of director of FSF India (he is also part of Swetcha). Wouldn't the active participation and leadership of Kiran Chandra won't count as FSF India participation? I answered it already. We did not contest the right to hold a conference, on the contrary we are welcoming it. We are only contesting the name in a positive spirit to remove any confusions arriving from the naming. This is seriously an insult to the many active members of the Free Software community who work tirelessly to promote the idea of Software Freedom from a person who is arrogant to acknowledge the contributions of the community and want to take credit for others work. There is many conferences happening all over India at every time of the year organised by different Free Software communities. FOSS.IN, Freed, GNUnify, FOSS Meet@NITC, Mukt.in to name a few. We have not gone and contested with them for credits or asked them to change names. With the due respect for your duty to promote the Freedom only, we are asking you to correct a wrong step. Rights also comes with responsibility. We are not asking you to give ownership to FSF here, but to release the ownership of the first conference you have assumed without consulting with FSF India. These are the questions I have to ask. Why was FSF India not contacted when FSF India was the organiser of the the first conference? Why are you discrediting the contributions of the Free Software community by claiming there is only one conference have happened till now? -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anilkumar KV <anilankv(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:47 AM Subject: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Praveen, James and all, The first conference was organised by a group of free software activists in Andra. They wanted FSF-India be a part of it. The FSF-India does not shown any interest in that event. However after finalising the program, the secretary of FSF-India put an email informing FSF-friends that some free software activists in Andra is conducting such an event, and FSF-India supports it. No other official initiatives were known to be taken by FSF-India for conducting Hyderabad event. If I miss anything as such please point it out. Yes here question is ethical one. How can FSF-India claimed to be organisers of an a event for which they just extended its support. The organisers of Kochi event, have started their effort after consulting with the real organisers of Hyderabad event. In fact the name of the event itself was suggested by them and not decided by Kochi organisers by themselves. Hence in here the legacy is a natural right and not just a claim. Before the reception committee formation, the organisers of Kochi event has asked support from FSF-India secretary, However the response was not in favour. Even now, it is not late for FSF-India to extend the support for this event. And I feel the Kochi organisers are even ready to accept FSF-India as organisers of the second conference The FSF-India directors and secretary are aware of these discussions going on here. Let them respond. - Anil ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് <smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com>, ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com forwarding reply to an earlier discussion. Anil, Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising the event? As pointed above, I'm asking about the role of Kiran Chandra in organising the event. Again repeat. As far as I know Kiran Chandra was actively involved in the organising of the event. I'm amazed at the tone of the organizers of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives of the organisers about this event. Why would they not consult with the community? Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long time? Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences that has happened and happening all over the country? I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal organisers and who suggested the name? This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in public mailing lists. -- -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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Fwd: [smc-discuss] Fwd: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated
by Anivar Aravind 29 Sep '08

29 Sep '08

In the light of discussions in FSF Friends, I am forwarding this thread , happing in Kerala mailing lists Anivar Forwarded conversation Subject: [smc-discuss] Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated ------------------------ From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/23 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Web site for the National Free Software Convention, 15, 16 November has bee inaugurated Here is the link http://nfm2008.atps.in/ -- JOBY JOHN jobyatps(a)gmail.com eiids(a)yahoo.com 91-9446549598 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് - എന്റെ കമ്പ്യൂട്ടറിനു് എന്റെ ഭാഷ സംരംഭം: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/smc വെബ്‌സൈറ്റ് : http://smc.org.in IRC ചാനല്‍ : #smc-project @ freenode പിരിഞ്ഞു പോകാന്‍: smc-discuss-unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- ---------- From: *Anivar Aravind* <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/23 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: Some mistakes in About page It says RMS participated in Hyderabad conference. As far as i remember RMS was not part of Hyderabad Conference. RMS was not in india at that time. See news on Hyderabd Convention (From my Del.icio.us memmory :-)) http://www.thehindu.com/2007/03/05/stories/2007030516130500.htm http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/04/stories/2007030411510400.htm Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown FOSS industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/24 To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, Keralites(a)yahoogroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com mistake will be corrected 2008/9/24 Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/25 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, ossworkgroup(a)googlegroups.com Cc: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com please see this comment Dear All, This comment is with respect to the observation that those who didnot contribute anything to Free software movement are the organisers of the conference. In fact, the term organising committee for the Kochi conference doesnot mean to say that they are the organisers of the movement. They are organisers of the event. With this hosting of the event they too become part of the movement. This is a process of enlisting the support of wider sections of the people. So Long as our itntention is to enlist the support of everybody that is interested in FREEDOM of software and knowledge, why should we blame those who come forward to host the conference, for the reason that they have not contributed so far? No body can highjack the movement to wrong tracks. The movement is so strong by virtue of the ideals over which it is founded and the credit will always remain with the FSF. The factual errors pointed out are being corrected. Thomas They got it wrong for the simple reason that these 'so called > organizers' were not even in the picture when the first conference was > conducted. Never thought people could become this shameless. > > James > > > -- > > > HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE! > > > ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM To: Anivar Aravind <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> I thought he was questioning FSF India :-( (and I was kind of shocked). So luckily I added my doubt at the end... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> Date: 2008/9/25 Subject: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com Free Software movement has come this far only because of the selfless efforts of communities and individual users. New groups and organizations coming up in support of this movement is always a welcome sign. The question here is an ethical one. The organizers have every right to hold a conf on FS. But tell me how are they morally justified in calling this the 2nd National Conf on FS? The 1st National Conf was conducted by FSF India, Swecha and Dept. of History University of Hyderabad. If they really wanted to conduct a sequel to the 1st conf, they could have done so in consultation with the initial organizers. The least they can do at this point is to admit their mistake and rename their conf. to something else. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ilug-tvm" group. To post to this group, send email to ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to ilug-tvm-unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com For details visit the website: www.ilug-tvm.org or the google group page: http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign ---------- From: *Anivar Aravind* <anivar.aravind(a)gmail.com> Date: Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:05 PM To: Praveen A <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> I understood his point. It is a valid one Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/26 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> Date: Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 8:35 AM Subject: [ATPS] Re: Fwd: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in>, atps <ATPS(a)googlegroups.com> The confusion is very clear now. The example quoted is that of a political party, the CPI(M). It should be with the blessings of that party that the Coimbatore party organisation hosted and organised the congress. But here it is not the FSF annual that we are holding in Kochi. It is a conference on Free Software. We are trying to get the participation of activits from across the country, with experts putting their views before them, so that the movement spreads across the country, which is not the activity undertaken by FSF. This was done in Hyderabad too. Hence this is second edition of that. This is not replication of institution or activities of FSF India. There is no conflict with FSF activities or ideals. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 6:14 AM, James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > > > > As per Arun of FSF India himself, > > > > Free software activists in AP has organised the convention at Hyderabad. > > FSF india only supported it and welcomed all the Free software activists > to > > the event. > > > > Then why free software activists in Kochi cant host and organise the next > > conference. It too will have to be supported by FSF India. > > > > The 19th Party Congress (CPM) was held in Coimbtore this year. It was > organized by the Cadres of that place, with the blessings of CPM. > > Do you think that it is possible for some over-exited cadres in Kochi > to announce a 20th Congress on their own next year? I don't want to > elaborate on this. Hope you get the point. -- Joseph Thomas thomasatps(a)gmail.com, 9447738369. ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/27 To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/26 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: Does that mean, a political party, CPI(M), organization is more important than a civil society organisation? Does that mean only a party organization needs to be respected? That is the exact problem we are talking about. When some one (who was not associated with the first edition) say it is the second edition of an event conducted by FSF India (along with other organizations), people believe it would be similar to the earlier event. But you have now stated it is not the same. If the event is not same as the first edition, how can you call it the second edition? Wow!! That was a good judgment of what the FSF has been doing all these years !!! You want us to believe that? A statement from someone who does not even know who organized the first edition in Hyderabad. But taking over the legacy of first national conference from FSF. If you believe taking over the ownership of second edition of an event organized by FSF India without discussing with them is not conflict, then I will have to agree with you. We are not contesting the fact that the event is going to promote Free Software. What we have a problem with is hijacking the legacy and name of first national conference on Free Software __WITHOUT__ discussing with the organisers of the first nationa conference. This has led people to believe there is something else is going on behind the scenes and we are asking for clarity. If it was announced as First National Conference organised by 'so and so' organisations at Kochi, it would not have been a problem. So I would suggest you to discuss with the organisers of the first national conference and ask them if they are ok with using their legacy. Or remove the "second" part from the name and have it as your first conference. -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/28 To: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com James Mathew asked : What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual event of FSF India? thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says : I am not undermining and under estimating the great FSF organisation by assuming that it was inactive during the period from 2000 to 2007 to the extend to hold its annual in Hyderabad in 2007. James Mathew said : "..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again how did you know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India? thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says : What is done by Hyderabad organisers has not been done earlier by FSF, mobilising activists from all over India. For knowing that one need not ask somebody at FSF India. All are watching and understanding what is FSF India. James Mathew said : Please refer to this link. http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.… The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more weight than a quick mail from Arun. The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS, avoiding all this confusion. thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> says ; The website of swecha website lists FSF India as one of the organisers or even the main organiser. Yes, they may have their own assessment of the assistance obtained from FSF or the role played by it. Can you please quote any FSF India document to show that it held its first or any subsequent annual in Hyderabad during March .2007. Again, the question of ethics and rights are being raised. Why FSF India should have this sort of Identity crisis ? By such questions and mails from those in FSF India confusion is created among the supporters and activists. Better FSF India shed its over emphasis on its rights. The emphasis on its right, in effect, mean the right to contain, restrict and prevent advancement of the Free Software movement. FSF is a respectable organisation and its name and fame shall not be destroyed by such stand taken by FSF India, please. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 10:41 AM, James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> wrote: > To: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> > What made you think that the 1st national conference was not an annual > event of FSF India?"..which is not the activity undertaken by FSF." Again > how did you > know? Did you ask somebody from FSF India?Please refer to this link. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20071216052848/http://nationalconvention.swecha.… > > The organizers are clearly listed. I think this is to be given more > weight than a quick mail from Arun. > > The point i'm trying to stress is that you didn't show the courtesy to > contact/consult any of the initial organizers. Had that been done, we > could have all worked together for spreading this philosophy of FS, > avoiding all this confusion. ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 4:18 PM To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : The above words doesnot give any such idea that political party is more important than a civil society organisation. The point raised in that respect is that coimbatore conference of CPI(M) was its annual, which can only further be followed up by that party alone. But the Hyderabad conference is not the annual of FSF India, it is an event conducted by the Hyderabad activists, efforts being made to enlist the participation of activists from all over the country. Had it been the annual of FSF, what we are doing now in Kochi, ie . Naming it as 2nd conference is absolutely wrong. But to us the Hyderabad even was not the annual of FSF. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : Holding conference in series doesnot mean to repeat what is done earlier. The subsequent events will be much advanced with more participation and more results. The content discussed also will vary. Again, the point is Hyderabad event is, in praveens own term, organised by civil society. FSF is only one of the organisation representing a section of civil society. No organisation can claim to be whole and sole representative of civil society. Kochi conference also is being organised by representative of civil society, without any tall claim of representing all, but in any case representing vast majority. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : The comment made by vivaravicharam earlier is justified by the fact that FSF has not organised any such event other than may be in Trivandrum all through he period of 2000 (Year of institution of FSF India) and 2007, the year of Hyderabad conference. This is why it is commented that FSF India has not been organising conferences in different parts of India with the aim of expanding the movement. They in FSF support, serve, offer consultancy and what ever they do to those who approach them. The vast majority of Indians are still unaware of the very issue of Software Freedom. FSF India, instead of disputing the rights of others to organise a conference or do something for the expansion of the movement, shall support all such activities going on in the country, as it has done to Hyderabad community. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : We both hold the same point. Either of us is correct. To me Hyderabad event is conducted by Free Software Activits of Hyderabad (AP) with the support of FSF India. It was not initiated, called for, or organised at the initiative of FSF India. On the contrary it was initiated, called for, support of FSF India sought for and organised by Hyderabad Activists including FSF members. Can any body show any of the FSF India document (I dont mean the site and documents of Hyderabad event ) to show that FSF India organised the Hyderabad event ? vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : Is Praveen arguing that Hyderabad event was the first national conference of FSF India ? Just reconsider it. We have no claims. We only do what we felt correct. The questions, doubts, confusion etc were created by others who questions the right to hold the conference and name it the 2nd. We are not claiming the legacy of any body. We have only named our conference 2nd to that of Hyderabad conference only, because that was the first conference that was organised by activists of any city with earnest effort to organise participation from all over the country, irrespective of the success/failure aspect. Efforts were made. They were successful to a great extend despite the limitations of being the first one. vivaravicharam said : praveen said : Vivaravicharam says : So far, all are arguing for FSF India and contesting the right of Kochi organisers to name it as 2nd conference. No body talks on behalf of Hyderabad University, SWECHA and the FREEDOM activits of Hyderabad who is not connected with FSF activities and even Free Software Activities. Organisers of Kochi conference are not claiming the owner ship of even this Kochi conference, leave alone Hyderabad one. Software freedom activists shall, at aleast, know the difference between ownership and right to ownership. Here, we don't claim any right to ownership. No claim of owner ship even. We are only serving the cause of FSF. But FSF India is annoyed, worried and agrieved of their right to ownership (!). We give the ownership right of Kochi conference to the civil society, which belongs to FSF as well. But we shall not surrender our right to our duty, the duty to work for FREEDOM of every body, not only that of software, but knowledge and civil in general. Let FSF claim the right of ownership (!) of this conference as well (!) by supporting it as they have done (?) in Hyderabad. Why creating confusion among the activits ? for whom ? And For what ? --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Cc: ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com, smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com 2008/9/28 JOBY JOHN <jobyatps(a)gmail.com>: The annual was just an example. It does not mean that only annuals conducted by an organization needs to be respected by others trying to conduct sequels. It is just a strawman argument http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument That is the problem here. Everyone who participated in the first event will think it is similar to the first event. Also people will associate the event to the ideas and policies of the first event. Now when some other party claims it is the second edition, we can only hope it would have the same policy, especially when the first organizers are not involved? I did not say this. What I said was "Does that mean, a political "Civil society" and "a civil society organisation" is not the same. ഇതു് ആടും ആട്ടിന്‍കാട്ടവും ഒന്നാണെന്നു് പറയുന്നതു് പോലെയാണു്. another strawman argument I could give just a few names of the conferences that FSF has done like * http://gplv3.gnu.org.in/ International conference on GPLv3 (now don't tell me international conferences don't count :-) ) * http://fsfs.hipatia.net/ Free Software, Free Society conference (again international) I'm amazed at the enthusiasm you are showing to judge the activities of FSF India when you don't even seem to be aware of the event happened in Thiruvananthapuram 3 years back. I don't have to continue batting for FSF India, since the community knows how much it has contributed to promoting Free Software in India. This is news to me !! Thanks to enlightening me. I agree with this whole heartedly. But the way to do is not by undermining the existing community by hijacking their legacy but by joining hands with them. As far as I know the event is initiated and organised by one of the members of board of director of FSF India (he is also part of Swetcha). Wouldn't the active participation and leadership of Kiran Chandra won't count as FSF India participation? I answered it already. We did not contest the right to hold a conference, on the contrary we are welcoming it. We are only contesting the name in a positive spirit to remove any confusions arriving from the naming. This is seriously an insult to the many active members of the Free Software community who work tirelessly to promote the idea of Software Freedom from a person who is arrogant to acknowledge the contributions of the community and want to take credit for others work. There is many conferences happening all over India at every time of the year organised by different Free Software communities. FOSS.IN, Freed, GNUnify, FOSS Meet@NITC, Mukt.in to name a few. We have not gone and contested with them for credits or asked them to change names. With the due respect for your duty to promote the Freedom only, we are asking you to correct a wrong step. Rights also comes with responsibility. We are not asking you to give ownership to FSF here, but to release the ownership of the first conference you have assumed without consulting with FSF India. These are the questions I have to ask. Why was FSF India not contacted when FSF India was the organiser of the the first conference? Why are you discrediting the contributions of the Free Software community by claiming there is only one conference have happened till now? -- ---------- From: *JOBY JOHN* <jobyatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com, ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anilkumar KV <anilankv(a)gmail.com> Date: Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:47 AM Subject: [Vivara] Re: [ilug-tvm] Re: [Vivara] Re: [smc-discuss] Re: Fwd: [ATPS] Website inaugurated To: vivaravicharam(a)googlegroups.com Praveen, James and all, The first conference was organised by a group of free software activists in Andra. They wanted FSF-India be a part of it. The FSF-India does not shown any interest in that event. However after finalising the program, the secretary of FSF-India put an email informing FSF-friends that some free software activists in Andra is conducting such an event, and FSF-India supports it. No other official initiatives were known to be taken by FSF-India for conducting Hyderabad event. If I miss anything as such please point it out. Yes here question is ethical one. How can FSF-India claimed to be organisers of an a event for which they just extended its support. The organisers of Kochi event, have started their effort after consulting with the real organisers of Hyderabad event. In fact the name of the event itself was suggested by them and not decided by Kochi organisers by themselves. Hence in here the legacy is a natural right and not just a claim. Before the reception committee formation, the organisers of Kochi event has asked support from FSF-India secretary, However the response was not in favour. Even now, it is not late for FSF-India to extend the support for this event. And I feel the Kochi organisers are even ready to accept FSF-India as organisers of the second conference The FSF-India directors and secretary are aware of these discussions going on here. Let them respond. - Anil ---------- From: *Praveen A* <pravi.a(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/29 To: സ്വതന്ത്ര മലയാളം കമ്പ്യൂട്ടിങ്ങ് <smc-discuss(a)googlegroups.com>, ilug-tvm(a)googlegroups.com forwarding reply to an earlier discussion. Anil, Kiran Chandra's active role in organising the event will not count? Or are you claiming Kiran Chandra did not take leadership in organising the event? As pointed above, I'm asking about the role of Kiran Chandra in organising the event. Again repeat. As far as I know Kiran Chandra was actively involved in the organising of the event. I'm amazed at the tone of the organizers of this event in discredit the FSF India's role of supporting the Free Software community for such a long time and also discrediting the role played by many individuals in the Free Software community by claiming the only effort to promote Free Software happened was last year in Hyderabad. Now the concerns are getting even beiiger about the motives of the organisers about this event. Why would they not consult with the community? Why would they discredit Free Software community's efforts for such a long time? Why would they be blind to so many of the Free Software conferences that has happened and happening all over the country? I would like to know who suggested not to involve the orginal organisers and who suggested the name? This is the whole problem. Free Software community does not work this way. This is like telling Linus Torvalds that he can join hacking the Linux kernel by a newbie without any clue about the Linux kernel. I'm expressing the concerns of the Free Software community in a manner that is common in the community. We always raise our objections in public mailing lists. -- -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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GNU/Linux primer
by shirish 28 Sep '08

28 Sep '08

Hi all, I made an attempt at making a GNU/Linux primer at http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/gnulinux-primer/ To put it simply, just something which tells newbies what it is all about without getting technical. What do you guys think? Do you think I may have missed something? Do you think something could have been put up in a better way? Or you think it plain sucks. Feedback and flames all are encouraged :) -- Regards, Shirish Agarwal This email is licensed under http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/ 065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17

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Ban Closed Source Software and Hardware
by Mani A 27 Sep '08

27 Sep '08

Research on brain tapping and variants are usually conducted in secrecy by different military agencies and almost certainly by large corporates. The former includes the CIA, FBI, certain units of the Indian military and many others. In the US, a few judicial cases relating to such activities have actually gone against the state. Such research and the equipments developed are never reported to the public and academic bodies. Exceptions include relatively lighter CIA games like the MK-ULTRA (1952-62 : officially) that was disclosed in 1975. Apart from these the few disclosures that have happened have been subjected to much counter propaganda and counter actions. With the severe advancement in the management of vague and imprecise information since the seventies, the increase in computing power, AI, neurobiology and advances in 'brain tapping' technologies, we have a lot of reasons to feel all the more insecure. This insecurity has more to do with the essential nature of closed source software and hardware than anything else. It is too difficult even for skilled reverse engineers to pronounce completely on what they seem to see. Already we have good many applications available. It is so EASY to misuse them. Some links are: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/03/the_us_military.html http://faculty.uca.edu/~ronmc/INFO3321/Spring_2006/Presentations/ET1/Group 5/BrainGate.doc http://www.ladlass.com/intel/archives/cat_cia.html Some interesting open source stuff too: http://openeeg.sourceforge.net http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-computer_interface http://science.howstuffworks.com/brainport.htm http://www.bariumblues.com/ Some controversial stuff: http://barbarahartwell.blogspot.com/2006/12/ken-adachi-educate-yourself-pro… Interesting things about the CIA here: http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/mindnet/mn195.htm http://www.whale.to/b/nsa7.html http://www.thehiddenevil.com Who knows what the CIA and other agencies have hidden in the M$Windows to start with? When a group of wild buffaloes is charging at you, then you must not wait for the stampede! These are important reasons for a total ban on closed source software and hardware. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc

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"Avoiding Ruinous Compromises" by Richard Stallman
by Anivar Aravind 26 Sep '08

26 Sep '08

<quote> If you want to help the community stay on the road to freedom, one important way is to publicly uphold citizen values. When people are discussing what is good or bad, or what to do, cite the values of freedom and community and argue from them. It's no use going faster by taking the wrong road. Compromise is essential to achieve a large goal, but beware of compromises that lead away from the goal. </quote> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.html rms writes: "Twenty-five years ago on September 27, 1983, I announced a plan to create a completely free operating system called GNU -- for 'GNU is not Unix'. As part of the 25th anniversary of the GNU system, I have written this article on how our community can avoid ruinous compromises."

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Microsoft wants to liberate Panchayati Raj System
by Indranil Das Gupta 26 Sep '08

26 Sep '08

Hi, > Here's the key person that IT secretary informs has the details. > Subhra Chakraborty Mob:09331042119 E-mail: subhrackh at gmail Thanks to Arun for attracting my attention to this thread. I must say that I find Raju's posting is interesting. I happen to have met with Mr. Subhra Chakraborty a couple of times due to professional engagements. Its true that Mr. Chakraborty *is* indeed the key person in the CSC (common services centers - NeGP G2C kiosks) program which are among the principal consumers of the GPMS and the IFMAS software. The fact is Mr. Chakraborty is a Project Co-ordinator / IT Officer with the Panchayat & Rural Development (P&RD) Dept, Govt of WB. He in turn reports to Mr. Maity who is the Deputy Secy (iirc) and finally at the top of the P&RD admin hierarchy is Mr. M N Roy. IAS (Principal Secy, P&RD) So, has Mr. Chakraborty been empowered as spokesperson from P&RD? Its interesting that the IT Secy Mr. Siddharth would be giving Mr. Chakraborty's name as the contact person. just wondering -indra

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Swatantra Free Culture Showcase
by Vikram Vincent 26 Sep '08

26 Sep '08

Swatantra Free Culture Showcase This idea has been inspired by the UbuntuFreeCultureShowcase<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFreeCultureShowcase> Our team wants to address various social, cultural, political and technologically relevant issues and we want to shake things up a little bit. At the heart of Swatantra's ethos is a belief in showcasing free software<http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html>and free culture <http://freeculture.org/>, and we think it would be an excellent opportunity to show off some free culture artists by utilising their media in various global campaigns. Although the time restrictions are tight, we think this is too good an opportunity to miss. So, we present the Swatantra Free Culture Showcase. http://swatantra.org/wiki/index.php?title=SwatantraFreeCultureShowcase How it works is pretty simple: Your submission must be no larger than 1Minute for the audio and 3Minutes for the video. Upload your submission somewhere online (there are lots of free hosting solutions available such as archive.org). Do not email any of the organisers or judges with your submissions. When the deadline for submissions closes, our panel of judges(*Mrs. Shobana Mathews, Mr. Sunil Chandy, Mr. Anil Pinto*) will pick a shortlist, and will then pick the final winners from the shortlist. The deadline for submissions is *20th November 2008* -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/

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IT sector
by Mani A 25 Sep '08

25 Sep '08

Here is an interesting estimate: http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2516/stories/20080815251604100 But OSS related estimates are not included... and moreover the bodies like NASSCOM that provide data are basically agencies of foreign capital and have little to do with Open source. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc

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[Fwd: [bytesforall_readers] China takes lead in [GNU] Linux education]
by V. Sasi Kumar 25 Sep '08

25 Sep '08

Sorry for cross posting. Sasi -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Frederick "FN" Noronha <fredericknoronha(a)gmail.com> Reply-To: bytesforall_readers(a)yahoogroups.com To: bytesforall_readers(a)yahoogroups.com Subject: [bytesforall_readers] China takes lead in [GNU] Linux education Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:39:45 +0530 China takes lead in Linux education Since the Chinese government began supporting domestic open source communities in 2005, hundreds of thousands of young people in the world's most populous country have become a part of the open source world. With the help of the government-supported Leadership of Open Source University Promotion Alliance (LUPA), Zhejiang Technology Institute of Economy (ZJTIE) founded its Linux Training and Examination Centre in 2006. The centre started out offering a simple 48-hour course; upon completion, students received a Linux operator certificate or a Linux network administrator certificate or both. According to ZJTIE, 1,500 students in the last two years have passed the examination. However, those students who wanted to learn more had to learn by themselves. Now, however, LUPA offers nine Linux certificates, including certificates for software engineers, 'C' programming language engineers, and LAMP system engineers. In response to a requirement from China's Ministry of Education, LUPA published 11 new Linux textbooks in July. The ministry hopes that these textbooks will help Chinese students learn more advanced Linux technologies. Some Chinese schools believe that Linux education has helped students gain employment. According to ZJTIE, 90 per cent of the students in its Economic Information Department received the LUPA certificates in 2006; as a result, employment rose to the highest the school has seen. This may be a result of the booming open source market in China. According to CCID Consulting, the sale of Chinese open source software increased 17.1 per cent, while sales of Linux increased 20.2 per cent in 2007. As Linux accounts for 66.5 per cent of China's open source market (according to a 2007 survey from CCID Consulting), open source education has been focused mostly on Linux. However, its success has encouraged ZJTIE to expand its teaching and certification. In March 2008, ZJTIE worked with LUPA to expand its education system from Linux to the whole open source industry. According to LUPA, more than 300 Chinese universities and colleges have joined its system. Open source technology has become a required course in many of these schools. Although the total number of students who have been trained for open source technologies is not available yet, Zhang Jianhua, chairman of LUPA, estimates that LUPA will train 100,000 students in Linux per year. Besides developing open source courses, government-supported communities also regularly hold activities such as open source conferences, speeches, contests, festivals, and campus marches to attract students to learn more about the culture, history, ideas, and technologies of the open source industry. At the same time, open source communities without government support have brought many young Chinese to the open source world by offering free open source information, translation of open source articles from other countries, and forums for open source technologies communication. Thanks in part to promotion by these communities, open source has become a powerful idea among Chinese programmers. In a survey by PHPChina in June 2007, 32.6 per cent of PHP professionals said that they chose PHP mostly because it's open source, and 64.8 per cent of interviewees who would start to learn PHP believed that "open source is the strong point of PHP." The same survey also showed that more than three quarters of Chinese PHP professionals learned something from or received information through domestic PHP communities. The rapid growth of China's open source expertise has yet to result in a significant contribution to the development of the global open source industry. This may be because young Chinese people are still novices in the open source industry, or it may be due to the fact that they have to work more than 60 hours a week to fight for their new jobs and have no time to work on open source projects for the time being. However, as the open source education system improves and as more young people become open source veterans, the global open source community will benefit from China's presence. Author: Chen Nanyang Originally published at www.linux.com; reprinted with the author's permission. -- FN * Independent Journalist http://fn.goa-india.org Blog: http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com Tech links from South Asia: http://twitter.com/fn M: +91-9822122436 P: +91-832-2409490 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity 17 New Members Visit Your Group Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Need traffic? Drive customers With search ads on Yahoo! All-Bran 10 Day Challenge Join the club and feel the benefits. . __,_._,___ -- V. Sasi Kumar Free Software Foundation of India http://swatantryam.blogspot.com

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TOI believes - Flickr is for flicking
by shirish 25 Sep '08

25 Sep '08

Hi all, Its an interesting blog post. http://blog.twilightfairy.in/2008/09/01/toi-believes-flickr-is-for-flicking/ It would be nice if the ALF or some other forum would like to take this fight :) -- Regards, Shirish Agarwal This email is licensed under http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/ 065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17

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Firefox 3 branding in Ubuntu 8.10
by shirish 25 Sep '08

25 Sep '08

Hi all, An interesting development I would say. I don't know whether its just the Ubuntu community who's responsible for this or are other distributions also taking note of that. There has been a new package included which is called firefox-3.0-branding. I've been running Ubuntu 8.10 for few months now (right from after the tool-chain got put up on the server) A very interesting conversation on the bug-report first . https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/269656 Then few mockups on the same http://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2008/09/17/mock-ups-available-for-notices-pr… Then finally the firefox-3.0-branding package http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/firefox-3.0-branding What this does is basically the first time you fire up the browser after you have installed the branding package it gives a short link (like one for addons or updates just below the tab bar) with saying "Know your rights" Linking on that takes you to about:rights which gives you the following info. :- About: Your Rights Mozilla Firefox is free and open source software, built by a community of thousands from all over the world. There are a few things you should know: * Firefox is made available to you under the terms of the Mozilla Public License. This means you may use, copy and distribute Firefox to others. You are also welcome to modify the source code of Firefox as you want to meet your needs. The Mozilla Public License also gives you the right to distribute your modified versions. * Mozilla does not grant you any rights to the Mozilla and Firefox trademarks or logos. Additional information on Trademarks may be found here. * Mozilla's privacy policy for Firefox may be found here. * Firefox also uses web site information services, such as the SafeBrowsing service; however, we cannot guarantee they are 100% accurate or error-free. More details, including information on how to disable the services, can be found in the service terms. Mozilla Firefox Web Site Services (this one is usually hidden) Mozilla Firefox uses web site information services ("Services"), such as the SafeBrowsing service, that are available for your use with this binary version of Firefox as described below. If you do not want to use the Services or the terms below are unacceptable, you may disable the SafeBrowsing service by clicking Edit -> Preferences -> Security and uncheck the options for "Tell me if the site I'm visiting is a suspected attack site" and "Tell me if the site I'm visiting is a suspected forgery." 1. Mozilla and its contributors, licensors and partners work to provide the most accurate and up-to-date phishing and malware information. However, they cannot guarantee that this information is comprehensive and error-free: some risky sites may not be identified and some safe sites may be identified in error 2. Mozilla may discontinue or change the Services at its discretion. 3. You are welcome to use these Services with the accompanying version of Firefox, and you have all the rights necessary to do so. Mozilla and its licensors reserve all other rights in the Services. These terms are not intended to limit any rights granted under open source licenses applicable to Firefox and to corresponding source code versions of Firefox. 4. The Services are provided "as-is." Mozilla, its contributors, licensors, and distributors, disclaim all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation, warranties that the Services are merchantable and fit for your particular purposes. You bear the entire risk as to selecting the Services for your purposes and as to the quality and performance of the Services. Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of implied warranties, so this disclaimer may not apply to you. 5. Except as required by law, Mozilla, its contributors, licensors, and distributors will not be liable for any indirect, special, incidental, consequential, punitive, or exemplary damages arising out of or in any way relating to the use of Firefox and the Services. The collective liability under these terms will not exceed $500 (five hundred dollars). Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of certain damages, so this exclusion and limitation may not apply to you. 6. Mozilla may update these terms as necessary from time to time. These terms may not be modified or cancelled without Mozilla's written agreement. 7. These terms are governed by the laws of the state of California, U.S.A., excluding its conflict of law provisions. If any portion of these terms is held to be invalid or unenforceable, the remaining portions will remain in full force and effect. In the event of a conflict between a translated version of these terms and the English language version, the English language version shall control. While I'm no great lover or hater of FF I think this is a nice way of doing stuff without being obnoxious and obtrusive. One more thing the 4th and 5th point were in BOLD . It would be interesting to have some discussion on what people think of the same. -- Regards, Shirish Agarwal This email is licensed under http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/ 065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17

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Ten easy ways to attract women to your free software project
by Praveen A 25 Sep '08

25 Sep '08

Very interesting article. We should try to follow most of the tips in our communities. "The gender inequality among developers and supporters of free software is stunning. Less than 2% of us are women, according to studies conducted for the European Commission. Why? The evidence says we're driving them away. There are even some pretty good published guidelines on how not to drive them away. What's missing is a practical implementation strategy: here I present ten relatively simple changes in how you run your project, to make it more attractive to would-be contributors—especially women." http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/ten_easy_ways_attract_women_you… Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign

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Fwd: [Advocate Play Ogg] Ogg is on the Rise!
by Praveen A 25 Sep '08

25 Sep '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Joshua Gay <jgay(a)fsf.org> Date: 2008/9/24 Subject: [Advocate Play Ogg] Ogg is on the Rise! To: advocate(a)playogg.org #Ogg is on the Rise Take action: * Digg this story <http://digg.com/linux_unix/PlayOgg_org_Ogg_is_on_the_rise> * Email campaigns(a)fsf.org with *new* items for our Ogg Friendly list <http://www.fsf.org/resources/formats/ogg_data/oggsites> * Read our latest blog post, "Ogg is on the Rise!" <http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/OggOnTheRise> More and more sites are streaming in free media formats such as Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora -- from Wikimedia projects to national radio stations. The PlayOgg.org campaign brings you an update and asks for your help in building its growing list of Ogg friendly sites. Read our latest update on our blog, <http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/OggOnTheRise>. Then, email campaigns(a)fsf.org letting us know your favorite Ogg friendly sites that are not yet on our list, <http://www.fsf.org/resources/formats/ogg_data/oggsites>. Lastly forward this email on to your friends. Encourage them to visit <http://playogg.org> and learn more about free media formats and to take four steps to get started with Ogg and helping the PlayOgg campaign. Thank you for your help and support, Josh, John, Matt, and Peter The PlayOgg Team _______________________________________________ Advocate mailing list Advocate(a)playogg.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/advocate -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign

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Fwd: Walking from Kasargod to Trivandrum for Freedom
by Praveen A 25 Sep '08

25 Sep '08

A wonderful initiative happening in Kerala, and I believe we did not see an effort this huge to spread Free Software to such a wide audience have happened before. I hope all of you would try to join in at least one of the locations of the Walk. (You could even plan a tour around this, there are many beautiful places in Kerala to visit). At the minimum join the mailing list at freedomwalk.in and share your ideas and pass of this message to your friends. Cheers Praveen ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anoop John <anoopjohn(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/9/23 Subject: FOURTH ESTATE CRITIQUE Walking from Kasargod to Trivandrum for Freedom To: fourth-estate-critique(a)googlegroups.com Dear All, This is my first mail to the group and I think this warrants a short introduction about myself. Anoop John, running a small IT business in Trivandrum by the name Zyxware Technologies. I had started this company with a definite vision to actually drive the change I wished to see in this world. I don't know if you remember this but we were the company who released the Chikungunya Tracking Software as Free Software to the Govt of Kerala last year. You can read more about the company at www.zyxware.com and more about me at www.anoopjohn.com and www.thondomraughts.com This time we are planning on a mobilization campaign across Kerala to promote social and environmental activism in the state. A team of us are walking from Kasargod to Trivandrum and are planning to organize programs in Schools, Educational Institutions and other Non Profit Organizations to build awareness about the issues. Additionally we hope to connect with activist individuals and organizations across the state and give them an opportunity and a common platform to collaborate with each other. I am writing to this group because I know that there are quite a lot of activists in here and we need help from you to organize the programs in your respective areas. If you are interested you can read more about the project below or you can check out the site at www.freedomwalk.in If you are interested you can please subscribe to the mailing list - freedomwalk(a)googlegroups.com by sending a mail to freedomwalk-subscribe(a)googlegroups.com If you know somebody who will be able to help us with this please forward this information to your friends. Hoping to hear a positive response from this group. Warm Regards Anoop John FREEDOM WALK - A Walk to Claim, to Ensure and to Preserve Freedom Background Our society is ridden with problems - social, economical, environmental. People have always been trying to solve these problems. Sometimes they have been successful while sometimes they have not been. The level of activism and the sensitivity of the people towards these problems have been going down progressively. Good can survive on their own while evil has to collude to survive. This lack of a need has resulted in a definite lack of communication and collaboration among activists in diverse areas. Free Software as a community driven initiative has been growing in leaps and bounds over the last decade or so. This has been made possible because of the use of technology for efficient collaboration and communication in the community. The parallels between Free Software activism and Social and Environmental activism are very close, but their individual progresses have been very different. Objective 1) Run a mobilization campaign across the state to build awareness about the issues that we are addressing. 2) Use this campaign to connect with and connect together individuals and activists across the state 3) Offer Technology as an efficient means and a supplement to the existing systems used by the activist organizations Hypothesis 1) There is lot of inherent goodwill in the society. If we can tap into this goodwill to promote social causes we should be able to scale up any kind of social operations massively 2) There is inherent goodness in everybody. If we offer the right kind of opportunity for people to offer their capability, services and resources in a way and scale convenient and comfortable to them, they will. Idea Identify a campaign that will be bizarre that people would find it novel. I am making myself available for this project as the crazy IT guy who gave up a life in the US, a job in the US and who came back to India to try to do the impossible. Additionally do something that people don't hear very often. So we have figured out this idea of walking from Kasargod to Trivandrum covering all district capitals and conducting awareness seminars in Educational Institutions and other organizations along the way. Politicians have done this, Adventurers have done this, Activists have done this - but an IT entrepreneur with the above profile - not before. This idea have been thrown out to peers and the only response that we have been getting is - Crazy - and we think that is good. What is this freedom that we are talking about? It is the freedom to live our lives to its fullest without harming anybody else and without violating any of our accepted social norms. There are several areas of life where we invoke this freedom. We are primarily concerned with three different areas - Freedom from Social Evils, Freedom to live our future without having to worry about environmental catastrophes and energy insecurities and Software Freedom. Our offer to activist Individuals and Organizations 1) Ride on this program to promote their activities locally and across the state. 2) Use this program to connect with like minded individuals and organizations across the state 3) Upgrade their operations by using technologies and services that are being offered Organizational aspects We are trying to partner with organizations who have reach and presence in local areas across the state to organize the programs. Currently we are partnering with Free Software communities across Kerala. These communities are going to utilize this vehicle to promote the free software movement in the state. Free Software communities are already well connected and they have reasonably good presence across the state. These organizations will be able to organize public functions and local gatherings where the general public can be included. An agreement has almost been reached with WWF to partner with them to channel all the environmental activism and queries that are going to be generated. WWF has presence in schools across Kerala through their social forestry and nature clubs. They should be able to organize programs in schools where these clubs are active We are trying to mobilize support of other social activist organizations and individuals to use this opportunity and organize their programs along the way. Attracting Media Attention The walk and the people who are walking and the collaboration platform are areas which we think are going to be attractive to the media. Media has also been very attracted to Free Software and has been promoting Free Software liberally during our activities in Trivandrum and we are hoping to bank on Free Software for this program also. Promotion over the web We will be using web as a primary channel to promote this project. The whole walk will be covered virtually everyday and reports, photos and videos will be updated to the website - www.freedomwalk.in - to let people across the state and the world know about this. The site is designed to let people interact with the people walking on a real time basis. Collaboration Platform There is no point in bringing people together just for the event and forgetting about them after that. The whole point of this exercise is to connect activist individuals and organizations together and build awareness among the general public. The event should serve the purpose of building public awareness. For connecting individuals and organizations we are developing and are planning to launch an online collaboration platform that can be used for free by this target section of the population. In addition this platform could also possibly give an opportunity for people in all sections of the society to contribute towards causes and we will have an opportunity to validate our hypothesis no 2. General Strategy for the program We are going to follow a more or less impromptu strategy for organizing the talks and seminars and public functions. There are three reasons for this :- 1) We don't have good centralized resources for doing this. 2) We don't have very strong local connections. 3) The organization is going to get easier once the public visibility and the momentum of the program increases. Pending items in organization 1) Actual details of talks/seminars have not been finalized 2) Actual details of organizations who will be organizing the programs 3) Contact information of people who will be organizing the programs 4) Approximate dates during which the walk will pass through a district have to be finalized Impromptu items that are going to be fun and exciting 1) Places of stay have not been identified 2) Path through certain districts are flexible Strengths 1) Very strong in web based collaboration and building web based systems to rapidly mobilize online 2) Permanent team in Trivandrum to act as the Virtual Operations Centre(VOC) 3) Strong brand presence and reach in the Free Software Communities across Kerala. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.zyxware.com http://www.anoopjohn.com http://www.thondomraughts.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Be the change you wish to see in the world", M. K. Gandhi ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "FEC-Fourth Estate Critique" group. To post to this group, send email to fourth-estate-critique(a)googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to fourth-estate-critique+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/fourth-estate-critique?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- -- പ്രവീണ്‍ അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില്‍ <GPLv2> I know my rights; I want my phone call! <DRM> What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign

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Adobe's position on software patents has changed?
by Anivar Aravind 24 Sep '08

24 Sep '08

A quote from todays Hindu report by Anant parthasarathy http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/24/stories/2008092461930300.htm Naresh Gupta, Sr. Vice President, Print & Publishing Business Unit Adobe, and Managing Director, Adobe India, a leader of the imaging software and solutions business, says: "We believe in safeguarding of intellectual property rights. Adobe invests significant resources towards innovation and we expect protection of our Intellectual Property Rights, to be able to sustain business." The position of Adobe on software patents in 1994 published by James Huggins is here http://www.jamesshuggins.com/h/tek1/software_patent_adobe.htm Let me make my position on the patentability of software clear. *I believe that software per se should not be allowed patent protection*. I take this position as the creator of software and as the beneficiary of the rewards that innovative software can bring in the marketplace. I do not take this position because I or my company are eager to steal the ideas of others in our industry. Adobe has built its business by creating new markets with new software. We take this position because it is the best policy for maintaining a healthy software industry, where innovation can prosper. The problems inherent in certain aspects of the patent process for software-related inventions are well-known, the difficulties of finding and citing prior art, the problems of obviousness, the difficulties of adequate specifications for software are a few of those problems. However, *I argue that software should not be patented, not because it is difficult to do so, but because it is wrong to do so.* In summary, these are my main points: * the software industry thrived without patents, creating its fundamental base in an era of no software patents; * software patents harm the industry, with no corresponding benefit; * software embodies mathematical algorithms; * the law, starting with the Constitution, argues against patents for software-related inventions; * and last, the proper form of protection for software is copyright. I strongly feel we need to write an Open letter to Adobe asking for its policy change. Anivar Aravind http://anivar.movingrepublic.org -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown FOSS industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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International day against software patents story in Hindu
by Anivar Aravind 24 Sep '08

24 Sep '08

Bangalore edition of The Hindu dedicated its public eye page for the cause of Software Freedom The Lead story is In the context of International Day against software patents see http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/24/stories/2008092461910300.htm 2 Other stories are related to Free Software http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/24/stories/2008092461920300.htm http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/24/stories/2008092461820300.htm As Usual there is a pro-software patent story too written by Anand Parthasarathy http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/24/stories/2008092461930300.htm Anivar -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown FOSS industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds

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Fsf-friends September 2008