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3393 discussions

FW: IISC and imposed monopoly rights - add to the debate please
by Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) 01 Dec '08

01 Dec '08

Hi, this is just a temproary space...to get community participation on material which needs to be added in here.. on one hand we have the issue of 'imposed monopoly rights' - on the other hand a premier institution is promoting this.. rquest knowledgable memebers in fsf-i to state their position on this..so that we can build a debate... -S http://notoimp.wordpress.com/2008/11/23/imp-policy-in-iisc-bangalore/ harish k singh : Can you look at the article at http://osindia.blogspot.com/2008/11/global-patent-troll-comes-to-india.h tml. The patents subsidized by our belowed govt is now in the hands of these trolls. Maybe we need to address these issues when the meeting in IISc happens next month.Incidently, this company's major investor is none other than microsoft. See http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/05/12/080512fa_fact_gladwell?cur rentPage=1. Rehat Venky : "Software patents are an important issue in India right now because there is a heated debate over how to interpret Section 3(k) which says that, "A mathematical or business method or a computer programme per se or algorithms are not patentable." How "computer programme per se" is interpreted is of vital importance to the FOSS community. Therefore a talk by RMS on software patents would be relevant at this point in time and would help raise awareness of how patents prevent independent invention and restrict the freedom of software developers."

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FSF-I as a unifying force(WasRe: Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents)
by Vikram Vincent 01 Dec '08

01 Dec '08

Greetings, My observations are at the end. 2008/11/30 Nagarjuna G. <nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org>: <snip> > FSF was founded in 1985. What kind of hindrance did it create for not > letting democracy or freedom flourish? On the contrary it took the > lead in promoting and protecting these virtues. It gave the direction > to the movement. FSM created tools that help create social networks > to let this happen. It is therefore an enabler of freedom. <snip> > Political parties on the other hand want to administer social change, > but we do not do that. They want power and control but we don't. > > Free software movement is possible without creating any large > political groups. The most important identity that we respect is the > human being and that beings' freedom. When we have a large number of > small groups at every part of the country (an FSUG in every town, > district, we don't have them now.) FSM will flourish. FSFI will > support their formation, provide them direction, give them > infrastructure, invite the leads of such groups into the working > group, generate consensus etc. and support each other. <snip> > Let us all work towards such an organic growth, instead of creating > one large network of FSF chapters. let me repeat, FSFs do not want to > become a political powers, and does not want to govern. That will be > self-defeating to the ideals of freedom. FSF-I was formed in July 2001. The I-Lugs existed years before that. Now FSF-I should have worked for the conversion of the "Linux" to "Libre" as done in certain groups. Why divide the Movement by promoting FSUGs etc? To take free software(free knowledge) to the last (wo)man in the most backward villages of our country we need people of different backgrounds. I don't think that differences on the issue of Free vs. Open should have been a devisive issue. -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by ajay kumar 01 Dec '08

01 Dec '08

dear friends local chapters are you saying that FSF-I should run like its run in Europe, Americas? that means we are trying to force solutions meant for other countries to that of ours! in order to have more people (in general terms we call "mass base") FSF-I must have local chapters. I mean considering your own views Just see the number of population in indian states they are as equal in population to that in each country in europe, this clearly shows the importance of having local chapters. On an average I think people sleep for 6 hours else if a person sleeps for months and years together, wake up a fine morning find themselves in losing there control over the foundation, obviously it makes them irritated, uncomfortable and the consequence is FAQ's in gnu.org. You people didn't even bother inform organisations that are mentioned in the FAQ's. board of directors When is the so called Board of Directors going to so called NOMINATE there new Board? most of the current board of directors are the same onces who are there since its inception which needs a change. (well power and control over FSF-I need to change) for everything that is old has to go and something new will always come into place and this transition dosn't happen smoothly. Well as the mails start poring in and that board of directors feel that they are baring the peoples quest for clarity, they are actually undermining the larger interest of the people. And to say "when you have a responsibility you don't bare things or say "patiently replying", rather you need to understand the pulse of the people". How long can you guys go on dictating terms like this? who can speak on behalf of fsf india? ha thats such a big joke. first you say that what ever the fsf-i board members say becomes the stand of fsf-i and then you say that fsf-i board will discuss it first and then say that "ITS THE BOARDS DECISSION". Well I need some more clarity the mails that arun, sasi and nagarjuna have mailed to this mailing list, are they the official stand and official statements of FSF-I? or are they just some personal views? Why do you guys make the rules and then break them? (by going on your own words "WE THE *BOARD OF DIRECTORS FSF INDIA* have the only right to dictate) i haven't seen any of you guys mention weather the statement that you are making is an official stand of fsf-i or its just personal views. other than the mention of "For instance, this FAQ is a statement from the Board." in the page that is on the gnu.org.in website there is no mention of it any were else. For instance http://www.google.com/search?q=satement+from+the+board+inurl%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2… when people at the top look bellow there feet they find lilliputs. When these lilliputs come face to face they suddenly become big, this is called as mass base and this mass base has to be organised in a democratic way. I am proud to be in a democratic country were i can express my views freely. I want that freedom back to the very organisation which i believed for and trusted for so many years has motivated and kept me free from escapism, opportunism. with love for freedom ajay kumar

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History of Free Software movement in India
by Anivar Aravind 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

Dear Friends In kochi conference I did a presentation on History of Free Software movement in India. (I presented my session after the boycott novell campaign and manhandling ) The slide of the presentation is available at http://anivar.movingrepublic.org/wp-content/uploads/storydom.pdf (Thanks Hiran for the Theme & design) I am planning to make this as an article. Please go through it and point if i missed any groups So please send your feedback Also it will help the people in this list to get the name of various groups contributed to the Free Software movement Anivar Aravind -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by Arun M 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

Dear Friends Please find FSF India's statement on recent developments. http://www.gnu.org.in/board-statement-on-recent-issues I hope this addresses some, if not all, the questions. More documents will be published in the coming days. regards arun

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SAY NO TO M$-VTU CAMPAIGN : Blr : 29th Nov 2008
by Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

Hi, I guess it was a good programme yesterday for free software ...we have to concentrate on the long term aspects...please do write on what we could do better..please make this a community report on what you thought is good and bad.. We had many people saying "NO TO M$-VTU" Lock In. the nice thing was we were able to have some new people From colleges : both lecturers and students ..a good representation from all sections of civil socitey i think somebody will have the media report and picutres.. thanks senthil 0) we started with a 1 minute silence for all the tragedy in bombay 1) Lecturers : RVCE(renuka) , Chirst(viki) , CMRIT(pramode) ( one new college) , 2) Students : christ , Amrita , bms-it, ait participated 3) We had research scholars from IISc 4) We had Dr Anja from IT for Change 5) We had a good number of programmers and people from the [proprietary] software industry - I think many companies were repesented ;) 6) the children from the slum computing center , wanted to make this a day out, to see what their teachers were upto..and sang a nice little song to end the program - a song which means "we are building the dreams for a new future" - they planned a visit to cubbon park, got late - but enjoyed the picnic of sorts..they were happy to see the encouragement they got from so many 'Drs and scientists" in blr.. 7) some students from bmsit came - but didn't like the 'street mode' - we explained to them why its important to take streets at times - we will work with them and are sure they will relaise the importance of this... 8) a good amount of material - press notes , fliers were in kannada this time - this is important - thanks to the suggestion of sri ramadoss 9) we also had some t.v channels covering it this time apart from the press..i do know the press people who came - please update 10) Dr Vijoo Krishnan, Head of Political Science . 11) Dr chaterjee - a scientist with Astro Physics 12) Parth from NRCFOSS also helped with the material. 13) Anivar from SMC 14) Renuka lecturer from RVCE 12) The student fedaration of india also had lent its support and said that it will take the issue of free software [ the left naturally takes to free software i guess ] 13) if we could have had a teachers union that would have been great.. 14) NRCFOSS also lent its support 15) There were folks from the kannada blogging community as well Thanks senthil

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by V. Sasi Kumar 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 14:27 +0530, Arvind Kumar Chinniah wrote: > Excellent go ahead with your complete strategy on and against the > democratic stance on freedom and software. > You were informed about that, else I don't know how you were present > in the campus ? (A BASIC LOGIC MESS). I did not understand what I was informed about. If you are talking about the Cochin University conference, yes, I was not only informed, but also invited to chair a session. I declined the offer because I had another commitment and I was not sure whether I would be able to even participate in the conference. I informed the organisers not to make me chairman for any session because of this confusion. I told them that I would participate if I could. So what is your problem? That I did participate in the conference? Are you saying that I should not have participated? > And even dont know how you guys went on through taking sessions that > too from the first day morning. You mean to say that those who had agreed to take sessions should not have? So that it would throw the conference into confusion? So that you could have then blamed these people for having created the confusion? Sorry to disappoint you there. > A symbol can be patented, even I'm against it, pls get to know abt > that if u r ignorant. (Hope this can be made as a separate thread of > discussion). Thank you for the knowledge. I did not know that a symbol could be patented. Hope you are knowledgeable about patents. > You said you accept the money or incentive, if you were sponsored, on > their willingness. The case in Kochi Conference also is the same. > All the linux user groups were asked for sponsor, Novell user group > came out with a quote for sponsoring at the platinum level. Oh so was it the Novell user group that sponsored the conference? Must be a rather wealthy group if they could become the Platinum sponsor of a conference that hosted 1500 people. > The question is "Are you the only authoritive to make decisions on > free software in India ?" > I was actually expecting an answer for this. And the other are all due > to the way you made your statement page. Of course not. Actually, I don't make any decisions on free software in India. It is actually the governments and the people who make decisions. We Free Software advocates talk to them why they should adopt Free Software and Free formats. That is all. Best -- V. Sasi Kumar Free Software Foundation of India http://swatantryam.blogspot.com

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Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by tina celia 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

Words from Gitanjali coming back to mind. > > "Where knowledge is free > Where the world has not been broken up into fragments by narrow domestic > walls" > Time and again the above lines are being quoted, it dates back to ages and has its own relevance, but here's a new thought that belongs to today's world; Wake up oh country to the rising of a new call, Oh stretch out your wings and reach out to all, Than being clustered and so forlorn, Reach out to the thirsty before they be gone... I guess the point is clear now. Unless the waters diversify into streams and rivers they cannot flow out to the millions and quench their thirst, yet again they flow back and unite to form one water body. Which then seems to reach out, the gigantic ocean or the stream at hand??? >1. Who organised the First National Conference on Free Software held in Andra Pradesh in 2007? >As part of FSF India's effort to strengthen the free software movement in AP, FSF India has been working closely with free software activists there. Initiatives like Swecha took >place as part of that. FSF India Director, Mr Kiranchandra provided the leadership for the activities in Andhra Pradesh. Based on his suggestion and his initiative, FSF India decided >to organise a national convention of free software activists. Under his leadership, FSF India worked with other organisations like University of Hyderabad and Swecha to conduct >the first national convention. >However due to the inexperience of the local organisers, the valedictory session became a platform for anti-free software propaganda. Some of the speakers invited for the >valedictory session used the opportunity to spread messages against Free Software. Though other speakers like Dr. Nagarjuna did try to correct the misinformation, the damage >could not, obviously, be fully undone. >A free software event should support the free software cause, and that also means not lending its platform to the opponents of free software. >Those opponents have lots of money, and hold far more events than we do, in which they promote their ideas. They are not entitled to neuter our events by becoming speakers >there. I have been taken by surprise that being such eminent people of FSF India your response to the National Conference held at HCU unfortunately ends up like this. Having been a part of the Conference is this all that you noticed or cared to mention about? It can be stated without second thoughts that the first National Conference was certainly a success, it brought out the true spirit of freedom among a varied lot and spread knowledge in a new and unique way, to the extent that there has been a great response ever since. The entire event and those who worked so hard to make it such a success have been appreciated by all. And you address them as "inexperienced local organisers" ? I have not heard a word of praise ever pertaining the event from you. This is seriously disappointing, it would rather have been better if you would not have said anything at all, like you remained all these months, than actually criticizing the event and the efforts of the organizers.

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Free Software Free Society Conference in Trivandrum
by Arun M 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

Dear Friends, FSF India decided to support http://fsfs.in/ conference being organised under Government of Kerala. Conference schedule will be updated soon. A note on the conference is given below. It would be interesting if we can provide video stream using free software. I found this link http://giss.tv/ Do you know any one with experience in this and willing to help us ? with regards arun 2nd International conference on Freedom in Computing, Development and Culture. 9-11, December 2008 at Mascot Convention Center, Thiruvananthapuram The Free Software Movement, started about a quarter of a century back, pioneered the various movements for freedom in the digital world – for instance, free knowledge represented by Wikipedia or freedom of creative works from copyright restrictions represented by Creative Commons. We also see a new form of social production where collaboration becomes more important than competition, where people from different parts of the world co-operate to create digital products including documents, music or software. These movements, in their own way, are helping to bring about a reduction in the Digital Divide and increasing access to useful works of knowledge. It is perhaps time to define the contours of this new space and situate interventions therein. Located at the intersection of Free Software, Development and Society, the FSFS Conference will examine the application of the Free Software model for freeing intellectual artefacts from the clutches of restrictive laws (like the Copyright Act), and making them available for human development. The conference will also address, inter alia, issues such as technology access and the digital divide, legal issues, and experiences of using the Free Software model in fields such as music, and literature.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by Arvind Kumar Chinniah 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

Now the cat is out of bag. It is clear from the statement from Board of directors that the on going battle against the Kochi conference got the covert and overt blessing from the whole board of FSF though some of them participating in the conference. The name Free Software Foundation (FSF) and its emblem, the wheel symbol might have be patented by FSF in any of Indian Patent office if not in US and the ban imposed by FSF, not to use the name FSF is understandable but the FSF cannot extend its territory to impose a ban on others not to use the term Free Software. The point no 11 state that the FSF India is willing to accept monetary or other support from any source so long as it comes without any strings attached and FSF India reserves the right to criticize any organization that, according to it, acts against the interests of the Free Software movement, irrespective of whether they have been supporting FSF India in any manner. This policy itself is flawed. When you get the fund from an organization and got the right to criticize it, what kind of ethics it is. Ethics courses conducted in many universities clearly guide that the way to handle such kind of conflict of interest is not to get fund from the donor who is about to be criticized. However you may come out with a theory that the money the donor earned was from the knowledge of the people who are working with them which is supposed to be in public domain. I understand that, based on the above policy, FSF, Boston has accepted fund from the same Novell. If you apply the same policy to the organizers of Kochi conference, you have no ground to oppose the organisers who got fund from Novell. I want to ask the question from you whether any such protest was organized by FSF Boston after getting fund from Novell. The point no. 5 state that it is opposing the policies of CPI(M) led government IKM supported propriety software in Kerala. Before registering such protest with the CPI(M) government, did you ask them what constraints they have in implementing free software in their activities or why do they support IKM supported propriety software? Did you register such protest with all other state governments who are supporting propriety software? Why do you choose CPI(M) led governments alone? The point no. 11 clearly states that the FSF governing body is not a democratic body and it will nominate a person into the body like a guru anoints his shisya as in Sankara Mutt. When you don't follow any democratic norms, what point you have against the organisers of the Kochi conference to state that the authorities stopped the protesters in an authoritarian and undemocratic manner as mentioned in point 9. The point no 6 states that FSF doesn't have campaign against Novell which implies that it is nothing to do with the boycott Novell campaign at Kochi conference. You say Novell is contributing to Free software but many of the Novell's action put the free software community's and the user's freedom at risk. It implies that Novel is very good as they are contributing to free software but some of their actions embarrass the free software community. This position eliminates your option of boycott Novel campaign. The only option left before you is to talk to Novell as they are your fellow traveler according to your statement and advise them not to embarrass the free software community. Then why do you poke your nose with the boycott novel organized by somebody who doesn't have any connection with FSF like FSF-TN or the organisers of Kochi conference and state that it was stopped undemocratically. Did you think the way the protesters did their job is legitimate? What right they have to deface exhibit material displayed by the organisers. It is like defacing the billboards of shops which was not written in Marathi by Raj Thakery's Navnirman Sena. It is common occurrence that many times violence took place in many places of our country when a political party pasted a poster over which the rival political party pastes another poster. The organisers approach the CUSAT authorities and got due permission from them to conduct the conference explaining the details of the activities they are going to have in the conference. If the protesters want to have some activities inside CUSAT, they should have approached the CUSAT authorities and got due permission to carry out their Boycott Novell campaign, whatever it may be like pasting posters or handbills or protest demonstration. If I be in a position of CUSAT authorities, I would not allow two activities simultaneously took place in my campus which are opposite in nature and this is what it was precisely done by CUSAT authorities. How does it be called undemocratic? When you have difference with the organisers, the way it was conducted you have no right to disturb their activities, you can organise your protest action at some other place. When you say that FSF is not a mass movement, what business you have with the organizers of Koch conference who wish to take free software to mass level? You got irked by the success of the organisers who could able to organise a huge mass and felt that the free software is your private property and was stolen by the organisers, and instigated a section of people to organise the protest Novell Campaign which is a knee jerk reaction on the part of FSF. - Arvind --- On *Fri, 11/28/08, Arun M <arun(a)gnu.org.in>* wrote: From: Arun M <arun(a)gnu.org.in> Subject: [Fsf-friends] Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents To: "fsf-friends" <fsf-friends(a)mm.gnu.org.in> Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 8:39 PM Dear Friends Please find FSF India's statement on recent developments. http://www.gnu.org.in/board-statement-on-recent-issues I hope this addresses some, if not all, the questions. More documents will be published in the coming days. regards arun _______________________________________________ Fsf-friends mailing listFsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.inhttp://mm.gnu.org.in/mailman/listinfo/fsf-friends

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