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Re: [Fsf-friends] Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by pratapreddy 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 00:39 +0530, Nagarjuna G. wrote: > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 12:22 AM, pratapreddy <pratap.fsf(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear friends, > > > > I am referring to FSF India Board statement on recent issues.. > > > > It is quite surprising to me while going through the description to the > > first question-Who organized the first national conference on free > > software in 2007. The statement says... > > > > <quote> > > ..... Based on his suggestion and his initiative, FSF India decided to > > organize a national convention of free software activists. Under his > > leadership, FSF India worked with other organizations like University of > > Hyderabad and Swecha to conduct the first national convention. > > <unquote> > > > > A committed group of Swecha activists, academicians from Universities > > like JNTU, OU in-association with University of Hyderabad actively > > involved in the first national conference. This group is very important > > They should be given due credit. I think community involvement is the > > key factor for the success. > > > > "A committed group of Swecha activists, academicians from Universities > like JNTU, OU in-association with University of Hyderabad actively > involved in the first national conference." I second this statement > from Pratapreddy. Can we edit the statement? Thank you Dr. Nagarjuna. The community will be happy if you incorporate the above statement. > > Nagarjuna I have another concern with regard to first first question. Many of us are inspired by the first national conference on free software at Hyderabad. I think the statement needs further editing. "It is successful platform for sharing knowledge as well as experiences among free software community. The conference paved the way for the free software community to expand in India." In any event success is to be projected reflecting the relality. Please focuss this direction also. pratap. -- Dr. L. Pratap Reddy, Prof. in ECE Department, JNTU College of Engineering, Kukatpally, Hyderabad - 500 085.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by vijay reddy 30 Nov '08

30 Nov '08

HI > >>I am sorry, but I don't understand why it is shocking. Is something > >>seriously wrong with it? "FSF India does not have any plan to form local chapters. FSF India is not a mass based organisation." Dont you think this one statement in itself is shocking.Being the leaders of the movemet/organisation you all should be guiding it rather than sabotaging it with this sort of a stand. Many enthusiasts like me work in this movement and try to bridge the digital divide and take technology (free softwares) to the people(masses). Reading the above statement shocked me. And also that FSF India does not have any plans to form local chapters. If FSF can start local bodies like FSF I, then FSF I should also start local chapters, whats stopping and more importantly why stopping?? > >>This also is not clear to me. How is FSF India trying to divide the > >>existing committee? What committee, as a matter of fact? Well it was a typo. It should be community and not committee. Don't you think that adapting this sort of an approach will divide the community. If you dont think so, then going through the works of RMS and Eben Moglen would facilitate in the thinking process and help in understanding why I felt so. > >>Again, I fail to understand how FSF India is killing the movement. I > >>have heard this being repeated often, but have not yet been able to > >>understand. Can you please explain? People who have worked in taking the Free Software Philosophy ,paradigm and technologies to the people would better understand why this sort of approach kills the movement. > >>And we already have FSUGs and GLUGs that are very active. What is the > >>point in setting up another organisation? I have neither asked nor mentioned anywhere to set up another organisation. What i have asked is why take a stand on not setting up of local chapters? I think there is a lot of difference in setting up another organisation and setting up of local chapters of an existing organisation (or company; use the appropriate term as per rules/regulations). > >>More people using Free Software and understanding its philosophy are > >>objectives all of us are working for. But how does this reflect on the > >>constitution of the Board of FSF India? The constitution should, I > >>think, depend on the function. Constitution reflects the objectives we work for. How is it that the constitution says one thing but the objectives of the very organisation that follows the same constitution be different. This is hypocrisy to the core. > >>FSF India's role is to ensure that the ideals of Free Software are not > >>distorted, and to promote Free Software and its ideals. This requires > >>that the people on the board are clear about the philosophy of Free > >>Software. When a large section of the population does not have that > >>clarity, it is not advisable to have an elected body which may or may > >>not stick with the philosophy. I find major problems there. > >>As I tried to explain above, FSF India cannot be a democratic body > >>precisely because its aim is not to reflect the aspirations of the > >>public but to act as a touchstone for the philosophy of Free Software > >>(which, I hope, you believe in), on the one hand, and to advocate Free > >>Software and its philosophy, on the other. And remember, a member of the > >>Board gets no authority on the FS community or on anything else. There > >>is nothing attractive about being a member of the Board. The Foundation > >>is not ruling over anything. It is not like a government. Well i totally accept your point that one of the major objective of FSF-I is to advocate Free Software and its Philosophy, and i firmly belive in the same. Thats the very reason why i am shocked by the stand taken by the people who are supposed to be the leaders. I would like to know, is it possible to advocate the same in a vast country without having local chapters? > > > > In fact, if you take the history of Free Software, it was RMS who > started things and set up the GNU project, the GPL and the other > licences. It was not done in consultation with the people. It was only > in the case of GPL v3 that there were consultations with the community. > Even there, the clauses were not decided on the basis of a vote. A lot > of people the world over happen to think that all these are good for > society, and so they support it. > > >>And there is no aristocratic manner anywhere. All the members are > >>available for discussion and anyone is welcome. There are no guards or > >>protocols to be observed ;-) Well if it is not a democratic organisation, then the way in which the board framed the responses and the way in which i acts and would act can not be democratic either.Since you have mentioned that it is not democratic, there is no point in discussion,as per your anti-democratic stand. Hence,i feel, it is aristocratic. > > > > Hope you understand. > > Best > -- > V. Sasi Kumar > Free Software Foundation of India > http://swatantryam.blogspot.com > Hope i made my understanding clear. -- Vijay Chandra

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by vijay reddy 29 Nov '08

29 Nov '08

Hi, The answer given by FSF India on the question "Is FSF planning to start local chapters in every state?" is shocking. Why is FSF India trying to divide the existing commitee with this sort of approach.What they should be ideally doing is to encourage setting up of local chapters and strengthening the movement. But with this sort of stand and approach they are in fact killing the movement, killing the enthu among the people who are a part of the movement. Stating that " FSF India is not a mass organisation" is itself in contradiction to what the founder of Free Software Movement, Mr. Richard's speaks, that of majority of people using and evangelising free software. It would be better if the people who frame these should be in sync with what the majority of the community thinks rather than act in an aristocratic manner. Vijay Chandra

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Re: [Fsf-friends] Statement of FSF India board on recent incidents
by pratapreddy 29 Nov '08

29 Nov '08

Dear friends, I am referring to FSF India Board statement on recent issues.. It is quite surprising to me while going through the description to the first question-Who organized the first national conference on free software in 2007. The statement says... <quote> ..... Based on his suggestion and his initiative, FSF India decided to organize a national convention of free software activists. Under his leadership, FSF India worked with other organizations like University of Hyderabad and Swecha to conduct the first national convention. <unquote> A committed group of Swecha activists, academicians from Universities like JNTU, OU in-association with University of Hyderabad actively involved in the first national conference. This group is very important They should be given due credit. I think community involvement is the key factor for the success. More over the conference announcement is available in Swecha web site but not in FSF India portal. (Board statement confirmed it). I may not agree in toto with the continuation of the statement referring to valedictory session... The emphasis delivered by one of the speakers in the valedictory session is mainly focussed on bridging the gap in the digital divide. I dont think that he used our platform for anti-free software propaganda. On many occasions he encouraged free software. In Indian scenario, more and more community participation in a larger democratic interest will be the final solution. pratap, -- Dr. L. Pratap Reddy, Prof. in ECE Department, JNTU College of Engineering, Kukatpally, Hyderabad - 500 085. cell no. +91 94900 98012

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Item-9 in Open Source Definition
by Mani A 28 Nov '08

28 Nov '08

It is obvious that Clause 9 in http://opensource.org/docs/osd is against the principles of FOSS. (Quote "The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium must be open-source software. ") Obviously it is not being modified due to corporate pressure. Even http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html does not explicitly find fault with it. This must change. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc

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Re: [Fsf-friends] a clarification needed
by Vikram Vincent 26 Nov '08

26 Nov '08

Greetings, 2008/11/18 Nagarjuna G. <nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:59 PM, Vikram Vincent > <vincentvikram(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > 2008/11/18 Arun M <arun(a)gnu.org.in> > >> > >> <snip>FSF India was not part of the conference though some board members > >> participated > >> in the event. Our participation is no way an endorsement to the > >> conference. > >> FSF India do have its own stand on the conference. Please note that > >> this has nothing > >> to do with what happened. > > > > Why is it that FSF-I has no public opinion about anything important? > > Chennai, Kochi, Bangalore... > > We want to know the reason for FSF-I not being a part of the conference. > > From the Vision of FSF-I http://www.gnu.org.in/why-we-exist the only > work of > > FSF-I is to be a not-for-profit company with certain goals which are not > > mass movement oriented. This is not useful to the Free Software Movement > > which is a mass movement. > > Is FSF-I democratic in its constitution? Meaning, are the members elected > or > > do company policies apply? > > If FSF-I continues in this manner then why do we need any FSF-I? We need > an > > organisation which can guide this Movement and not simply to give > > verdict/blessings that "this/you is/are right", "that/you is/are > wrong",... > > We want to know how FSF-I intends to proceed in the future. Does it plan > to > > be a participant in the Movement? We want it to be democratic and > > representative of the Movement in all senses and not simply through talk. > > A large set of questions, and each of them will be clarified. > > Nagarjuna > Since almost a week has passed would this be an ok time for a friendly reminder? Kindly also address the following: When was the last time that FSF-I had an election to the committee? When does it plan to have the next elections? Which system of functioning does FSF-I follow since sister FSFs do not follow the same system... -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/

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Free software is the future. The Future is ours.
by justin joseph 24 Nov '08

24 Nov '08

In the nationanl conference on Free Software at cochin, Slum dweller had put up a stall with Mani's paintings: http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/23/stories/2008112354831000.htm However the report mentions "Open Source". But slum dweller is a Free Software person and understands: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html Yesterday we had a discussion, "are we getting more publicity than we deserve". However it has helped, that is important to inspire youths nearby slums to start such computer centers using Free Software. Though the center itself has a very long way to go and Mani's Free Software paintings are worth the publicity.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] FSFS.in will have a larger controversy
by Mani A 23 Nov '08

23 Nov '08

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 9:55 AM, V. Sasi Kumar <sasi.fsf(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> remain transparent. Corporate bodies can never really be trusted. The >> intent of some 'document freedom camps' for example, are suspect. > You mean, the donor should have some obligations? I thought you meant > that the acceptor should have obligations. But even saying that the I mean the acceptor should have obligations. The specific additional terms agreed to by the parties should be stated. It should be for interested people in the community to try something ... in case of any apparent irregularities. The purpose is to strengthen the free software movements. Hopefully it will help different groups to improve their resources. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc

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Draft letter to VTU VC - Say NO to vendor lock-in in education
by Vikram Vincent 23 Nov '08

23 Nov '08

http://bangalore.gnu.org.in/index.php/SayNOToVendorLockInInEducation -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/

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Re: [Fsf-friends] FSFS.in will have a larger controversy
by Mani A 22 Nov '08

22 Nov '08

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:42 PM, V. Sasi Kumar <sasi.fsf(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> My point is that the act of accepting donations should have legal >> obligations associated. > > Why should there be legal obligations associated? There will usually be Ultimately the community has to trust a few at any given point of time. So it makes lot of sense. Moreover the whole process would remain transparent. Corporate bodies can never really be trusted. The intent of some 'document freedom camps' for example, are suspect. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc

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