Fsf-friends November 2008

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

47 participants
74 discussions

The conference issues and facts
by Kiran Chandra 20 Nov '08

20 Nov '08

It is very unfortunate that a campaign on the name of novell is being carried out against the conference which is also going out of proportion. These kinds of attempts just harm the movement and will be of no good. Hence i am coming out with facts. The sole contention should be to keep the freedom flag waving. There would be none who would not be criticising the collaboration of Novell with Microsoft. However confining the attention of the entire community to one issue would undermine the importance and success of the conference which is historic for the free software movement. This protest doesn't appear to be the one against novell rather to be against an important confernce of a high magnitude in the history of the movement. This was a conference which was well attended by 1500+ participants that includes industry, students, academia, Vice Chancellors, Policy makers and many others from all walks of life. There were 30 seminars, 17 workshops, 18 open fora, exhibition and many other kinds of activities.There were good number of declarations made and initiatives taken up. At a time when there is a back door entry of software patents an initiative on behalf of the lawyer community to take on the patents in the legal battles was announced. An agreement for collaboration between eight universities to conduct research on and based on free software and to implement it was made. There are many in these lines which have been an outcome of this conference. There was huge number of academia representing this conference. Any protest organised, will generally be made in front of the office of novell or in the presence of the representative of the novell. However this protest was not called when the novell representative was there on the dias as a speaker on which me and nagarjuna were also present. The community has never seen any protest in front of the novell offices or the other conferences supported by novell accross india. The situp was organised infront of the main hall, the posters were being put at all parts of the campus. The actions thus appear to the community that they were just not against novell but against the conference. This is not the first time that such issues are being created by the same people. They were trying to create hurdles, divert the attention and subvert it even during the preparations of the conference. There are many conferences that are happenning in the country which are organised by many others, we as FSF India will be attending them and try to ensure to get the best benefit for the movement. The main organiser was CUSAT(Cochin University of Science and Technology), there is an LDF govt. which supports free software hence the conference could get support externally. These kind of conferences are in the interest of Free Software Movement. We in the movement are trying to rally the support of all political parties. Tomorrow even other political parties also will be forced to support us, the movement will have to be built accordingly. Why should we a part of the community get involved in killing initiatives and attributing them to the events of political parties. Attributing such things would not help the movement to grow. The community watching these kind of developments will be forced to beleive that these people only want to subvert the conference. The university authorities will act in their own discipline if there is some problem that creeps in the course of the conference. Any man handling is condemned without any second thought. This conference was not organised by novel or was it the sole sponsorer. It was one among the many sponsorers. Taking up a campaign which is not in the top list of FSF campaigns and calling for the boycott novell protest on the second day of the conference when the entire delegation was seriously debating the issues concerning just undermines the conference. This hue and cry rather than helping the movement just undermines the conference and the movement. This is absolutely not doing good to the movement. The continuous row on whatever levels(either personal or official) and spilling over words will just harm the movement. The energy of the community that should be focussing on more important issues is being dragged into such debates which will not help in attending to important issues confronting the movement. Let us march to the international conference with the spirit of the conferences held and concentrate more on the priority issues like patents which is an immediate necessity. --Kiran Chandra

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some concerns
by haynes davis 19 Nov '08

19 Nov '08

Does FSF-India want to continue the 'Boycott-Novell protest' by pasting posters over Novell posters and boards all over India? Will FSF-India condemn the cpim hijack news that came in Mangalam and Newage Business ? The hijack view is expressed by many who are associated with FSF-India. Will FSF-India disassociate from such comments? If FSF-India takes any decision on these, who all will be bounded by that? Can any one 'escape' the decision by representing any other group? During the decision making who all will be heard in the process? How can FSF-India make sure that the communities' concerns at large can be addressed? Regards, Haynes

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Time for a Change
by Roshan Phillip 19 Nov '08

19 Nov '08

Friends, I think it is high time for a change....we need a strong organization to take this movement forward. And for that we need a strong leadership. Nagarjuna, Arun etc are good..but their activities seem too localized. I think Kiran Chandra has proved himself as a very able leader within a short span. His activities in Andhra, Grass root level work in Bangalore, the big event in Chennai and finally in Kochi, all these are just signs of how an organization should be taken forward. Moreover, an organization cannot work in isolation. Kiran's close connections with the Communist Party can be and should be used for the benefit of the organization. Being the editor of CPI(M)s very popular newspaper, he should be able to take the organization to the next level. On behalf of the free software volunteers across the country, i request the current leadership to step down gracefully, as it is high time for a change.

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Thanks ilug cochin
by Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) 19 Nov '08

19 Nov '08

Hi, I would also like to second the report of ilugc...if initial reporting was not sensational and confrontational..things would have been much better for us.. also seeing the pictures in anivars blog/video i thought people had infact a good chance to protest..till the last unfortunate turn of event.. and i repeat if some seniors wrote in the way ilug-cochi wrote - we wouldnt have had these flames..i hope fsf-i sides with people like this rather than sensationalists. thanks senthil

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Fwd: [ILUG-Cochin.org] ILUG Stall at National Conference 2008
by Anivar Aravind 19 Nov '08

19 Nov '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: <events(a)ilug-cochin.org> Date: Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 11:34 PM Subject: [ILUG-Cochin.org] ILUG Stall at National Conference 2008 To: mailinglist(a)ilug-cochin.org Warm Greetings to the Swathanthra Software Community, The ILUG Stall at the National Conference was a grand success, simply because we were the only stall with the theme "Freedom" emphasizing the core values of Free Software unlike most of the other stalls at the exhibition. Of Course it is debatable question as to the presence of stalls from fertilizers to fisheries at the exhibition, but of course it was a very great opportunity to explain to them the core values of this social movement. Also considering the fact that there were lot of proprietary software being exhibited in several stalls. We raised our voice against these stalls, providing our help to replace it with Free Software. Some agreed while others were reluctant. The stall was put up from 13th after bringing in the machines the previous day night. But it wasnt until 14th afternoon that the stall reached full fledged functioning. Although we had been given a small space at the conference, we made best use of it, by displaying very good and relevant information about Free Software and the GNU movement thereby keeping our stall always filled with people. We had 4 machines setup to display various applications. One of them was used to give a demo of the Installation process of the Debian and Gnewsense DVDs and CDs we were distributing. Ours was a stall, were anyone could just walkin and try their hands at any of the applications, this helped people to get a feel of what Free Software was. Again this is considering the fact that 90% of all the visitors were either new to Free Software or had just started using it. In order to meet the expenses for the stall we had distributed Debian GNU/Linux DVDs and Gnewsense CDs for a price. While we never forced anyone to pay the original price, we explicitly told them to pay whatever they like the minimum being the cost of the DVDs. While for CDs several were given free of cost to the people who visited, especially students and those who could not afford. The first day saw very few people visiting the stall. The second day turned out to be more crowded with people turning out in moderate numbers. There were students, parents, freelance developers and teachers turning up at our stall to understand what exactly free software meant. The most important achievement was we being able to clear up several of the misconceptions. The hard copies of RMS Essays we had put up for a price were also purchased by a few. The first day of the conference had a big rush at the exhibition venue with the delegates pouring in as well. A couple of us had attended a session by Nagarjuna (gnowledge.org), FSF India Chairman. After the speech we caught up with him and guided him to a second venue to devliver his next speech. Nagarjuna came to the exhibition late and visited our stall. Although there have been discussions offline about our plans to change the group Name, nothing has been discussed on the list yet. We made use of the occasion when Nagarjuna visited us and requested him to correct our name for us on our banner. He accepted our request and as per our initial plans he corrected our name on the banner to "Indian Libre User Group". He also spend some time with ILUG Cochin Members, SNGIST College students and MES College students. He also discussed a few points about the "Business model of Free Software" with Mr Unais Mohammed" from KSEB. We also had the FSUG Bangalore coming to put up their stall at the venue. It was also a stall of the Ambedkar Community Computer Center, were a handicapped boy Mani was selling pictures made by him using Free Software(GIMP). We had a great time with the students and faculty of SNGIST College, Manjaly and MES College of Engg, Kuttipuram sharing their knowledge with us. Sunday was a day of action in every way. There were two sessions by ILUG on the day. "Significance of Free Software on Mobile Platforms" was handled by Sameer and an Open Forum Discussion on "Significance of Free Software Groups in Society". The first talk focussed on the growing importance of Operating Systems on Mobile Phones and how Free Software was the apt choice for Mobile platforms as well. "OpenMoko" was used as a reference. The Open Forum discussion was focussed more on helping 3 groups to help form User Groups in their colleges. SNGIST Manjaly, Paravur. KKTM Kodungaloor, and CUSAT. The dicussion saw several of the participants pouring out ideas to start groups in these colleges. CUSAT already having a Free Software group, just needed to get it up an running again. A group of people belonging to the Free Software Community including students had also done a protest against the main sponsor Novell, ILUG Cochin also pledged their support by putting up posters of "BoyCott Novell" in the stall.Some friends of the members of ILUG Cochin had come in and handed over posters and volunteered to stick them in the stall. At the same moment the organizers were rushing towards our stall to remove the posters as Novell had objected to it. The rough behaviour from the organizers were a matter of concern, especially the seizure of the cameras carrying the pictures of the brawl. The series of events that happened was bad in terms of the organizers taking an unnecessary tough stand on the matter and not lending an ear to the actual facts. We were happy to raise our voice and protest with the Free Software community opposing the likes of forces like Novell. Indeed it was good to see a resistance in a programme of such magnitude like the National Conference. Although there is no doubt to the fact that the conference did its job, bringing people from all walks of life and ILUG Cochin did the job telling people the principles behind it, the opposition against Novell has also increased the significance and importance of the event thereby bringing about a lot of questions into the community which would not have been raised otherwise. The stall was dismantled by 5.00pm at the end of the exhibition and everyone left for home after an eventful day and 4 days of hard work. Thanks to Binny and Sreenadh for spending all 4 days in the stall from day to night. Thanks to Shibin, Kevin Sha, Anil, IB Manoj for helping with the functioning of the stall. Thanks to the students and faculty of SNGIST Manjaly for helping us out with the stall and taking care of it in our absence. Thanks to Nagarjuna G for spending a great time with us. All the people who visited the stall. And of course the organizers of the National Conference for having provided us an opportunity to put up the stall Unfortunately senior members like Jay Jacob and Balakrishan Sir were unable to make it to the conference. _______________________________________________ Mailinglist mailing list Mailinglist(a)ilug-cochin.org http://ilug-cochin.org/mailman/listinfo/mailinglist_ilug-cochin.org -- Any responsible politician should be encouraging a home grown Free Software industry because it creates the basis for future jobs. Learning Windows is like learning to eat every meal at McDonalds.

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Is civil disobedience required for Free Software Movement
by renuka prasad 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

Want to hear from you all about the subject mentioned above This request is not for discussions about any particular event or any incidents that have or are taking place , please avpid any kind of cross references , please put your own thought More interested to know what software freedom fighters think about this , If you are a software freedom fighter believing in the ideologies of FSM initiated by RMS and can think about the topic mentioned in the subject can help me in understanding about the same regards

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My Blog post on National Conference & Boycott Novell Protest
by Anivar Aravind 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

I blogged about the national Conference & Boycott Novell Protest http://anivar.movingrepublic.org/2008/national-free-software-conference-boy… If you are any more questions to me. Leave a comment on the post . I will update the FAQ Anivar -- I am always happy when I am Protesting: Richard M. Stallman

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on FSF should distance itself from undemocratic????
by Rahul Computerwala 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

May I know the crime committed by me or FSF India ? *The clarity which is needed at this moment is the crime commited. Why one of the members from FSF-I says he will use the platform even if there is Microsoft conference while the other says why Novell???? If FSF-I is well communicated and transparent organization then why this DOUBLE SPEAK??? I have told this earlier also but some people aren't reading other mails except of posting their mails. Why is it FSFI folks take convenient personal positions and then different official positions and everything is confusing so much. * Why was the camera of students were captured and images were removed? *If anyone is trying to disrupt the peaceful and good conference and id you appease them naturally some people who may feel offended and I know its part of one of the mistakes done by volunteers. But noone will keep quiet as an individual if someone is trying to disrupt the functions in our house. I thought it was the same for them too.* Would this issue have been got out of control if the organizers allowed peaceful protest by putting some posters? * * *Being part of this conference I saw how peaceful the protestor was. I was there in the stall to witness it. Trying to put it up the stalls even though certain stall owners were quiet interested. And I could clearly see what the protestor/s could get when I saw the article in some magazines about these things. I could clearly see the mileage and as in Bangalore experience I know that Anivar is known for such stunts and now again as always he is using this platform which few others for there own personal gains. Condemn this intention and well preparedness of hampering such a positive conference.* * * *BOYCOTT NOVELL* *BOYCOTT CHEAP PUBLICITY STUNTS* Why Anil or other organisers did not respond when Anivar called him to come and resolve the issue? *My Question is, were protestors a bit patient enough to wait for the organizers to come, as they will naturally be busy in organising some or the other events???? Or was this protest a drama to create something for themselves. Some mileage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!* Some people seems to have some interest in showing this as a CPIM - FSF India fight. It is very easy to create David and Goliath and derail the discussion. *First clear the double speak and then ask questions who is creating what. Without being clear themselves I don't see this statement having any relevance. And as far as fight with political party and FSF-I goes I have been regular reader and I think this was started by one of the FSF-I members isn't it???. Anivar, sasikumar and matthew are ones who create this fight. FSF-I and some whole free timers have created such a David – Goliath issues. * * * *That's why I say. Without being clear don't comment. This would not have any ground. These comments does nothing but creates confusion within FSF community*. * * *With lots of questions on some of very confusing answers* * * *Devils Advocate for free software movement* * * *Rahul Computerwala*

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FSF should distance itself from undemocratic, illegal, immoral and unjustifiable acts of protest.
by Arun M 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

> > 3.) what did arun do in his capacity as FSF Secretary to dissolve the > > situation during the conference. Was he organizing the protest? Was the > > protest with the knowledge of FSF india? > http://mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/fsf-friends/2008-November/005649.html Anivar tried to contact Anil and I tried to contact Mr Kiranchandra, who were involved in organising this conference. Both of them could not come and resolve. If you want to know how organisers of exhibition treated us when we tried to resolve the issue you may also check up with Mr Vimal, SPACE or Mr Amarnath Raja, chairman IEEE, Kerala chapter (and an invited speaker). Request to put posters in two stalls by their owner were rejected. It is very sad that freedom of expression, in peaceful manner, was rejected in a conference on free software!!! Only because of that we decide for a peaceful protest by siting down in a corner, silent with posters in hand. When Sri. Joy Job Kulaveli and Sri. Chandramohankumar Registrar, CUSAT, demanded us to leave the place, (in a very undemocratic and arrogant manner), we left peacefully. May I know the crime committed by me or FSF India ? Why was the camera of students were captured and images were removed ? Why is Novell's name is still not there on conference website even when though they are the main sponsor of the event ? Would this issue have been got out of control if the organisers allowed peaceful protest by putting some posters ? Why did Anil or other organisers did not respond when Anivar called him to come and resolve the issue ? Some people seems to have some interest in showing this as a CPIM - FSF India fight. It is very easy to create David and Goliath and derail the discussion.

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Re: [Fsf-friends] [smc-discuss] Re: FSF should distance itself from undemocratic, illegal, immoral and unjustifiable acts of protest.
by haynes davis 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:08 PM, Nagarjuna G. <nagarjun(a)gnowledge.org>wrote: > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:05 PM, haynes davis <haynesdavis(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> If CPI(M) supports Free Software, then why did the members of this > >> party attended a MS marketing event? IKM and related stories are > >> history. Here is the latest one: > >> http://k-mug.org/content/LaunchReport.aspx > > > > "FSF India or FSF has any untouchability to Novell as far as we know. > > Dr Nagarjuna was invited for a program and he spoke. I was invited, > > I participated. > > Even if Microsoft gives us a slot we will go and speak. > > There is no issue in that. > > > > I hope this answers your question." > > > > The above quote was not referring to my question. but some other > email, so it was not clear if you are referring to my question on > who was doing the double speak. > that was my reply to manilal. i had replied in fsug bangalore list. I will copy that. > who are the FSF people are doing the double speak? > > Second, please do not identify FSF and FSFI. These are two different > sister organizations. > i referred to fsf only in Indian context, ie. fsf india. Sorry for the confusion. Some people took part in the protest say Novell issue was due to the ignorance of organizers, while some say the organizers concealed it. People like Arun etc were at the conference, while some where protesting. Anivar Aravind, Member FSF was a speaker at the conference and also a protester. http://nfm2008.atps.in/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/speakers.html And also regarding cpim hijack issue. Why dont fsf india make the things clear. Do fsf india support those rumors? If not, why does not fsf india condemn such news, at least to show some gratitude towards cpim which supports our cause? to add some more 1.) http://www.mail-archive.com/fsf-friends@mm.gnu.org.in/msg00704.html I am writing this mail since my earlier mail is being interpreted to mean that the CPI(M) is trying to sabotage the Free Software Movement in the country. That was not at all what I meant. Since I wrote it in a hurry as I am on the verge of leaving on a rather longish journey. I don't think a large party like the CPM would try to capture a small organisation like FSF India. But the convention has several known CPM leaders (such as Dr. Debesh Das) and CPM supporters (such as Sri N. Ram). So it would appear that the people who are doing this have a CPM background. Why they would want to create such a problem, god only knows. I am sure the top brass in the party would never knowingly permit such activities. I am sorry if I sounded otherwise. Best -- V. Sasi Kumar Free Software Foundation of India * * 2.)* http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?no_d2=1&sid=08/11/17/0120203* James Mathew <james(a)gnu.org.in> writes *"This is an interesting story from Kerala, India, where the ruling Communist Party organized a national conference in its efforts to hijack the Free Software Movement, which has enviable roots in the state. They got Novell to sponsor it. On the second day of the conference, a few free software activists who displayed posters against Novell were manhandled by the organizers and police<http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/11/boycott-novell-protesters-man-ha…>— typical of what is expected from them. Most of the snaps taken during the scuffle were forcefully deleted by the organizers, after seizing the protesters' mobile phones. Still they couldn't delete all. * 3.) what did arun do in his capacity as FSF Secretary to dissolve the situation during the Kochi conference. Was he organizing the protest? Was the protest with the knowledge of FSF india? 4.) was anivar representing FSF? 5.) http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/11/boycott-novell-protesters-man-ha… പ്രവീണ്‍|Praveen aka j4v4m4n<http://www.blogger.com/profile/14632492539063886289>said... This clearly shows the organizers of this event are completely out of touch with the politics of Free Software. I am sure the community will reject any attempts by vested interests to hijack the Free Software community. Regards, Haynes.

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Fsf-friends November 2008