Fsf-friends November 2008

fsf-friends@gnu.org.in

47 participants
74 discussions

FSF should distance itself from undemocratic, illegal, immoral and unjustifiable acts of protest.
by haynes davis 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

"YOUR FREEDOM ENDS FROM WHERE MY NOSE BEGINS"* *The Boycott-Novell protest that was staged during the National Conference at Kochi was really unfortunate. Not because of the ideology of Boycott-Novell, but the the intentions of some of the protesters. Was it good to paste posters in other stalls and on someone else's posters? Was not it against the principles of freedom? Was it good enough to challenge the organizers that 10 posters will be pasted for each one removed? So the intentions seemed to be to interrupt the function rather than raising a cause. And the saddest part is that the protester himself was one of the organizer. The organizers gave us the opportunity to raise our concerns through open forum or posters, but with out infringing on others freedom,without disrupting the function. Why some among us is writing articles in news papers opposing such initiatives live Kochi Conference? Do you think it was journalist who dug up the issue of cpim hijack of FSF. Some among us are creating confusion regarding the GRAND HIJACK THEORY. Why does not the FSF people stop the double speak. Please make the things straight and clean. Cpim has supported free software the most. Does not we need its support. Or why should we accept its support and then accuse it of hijacking. if its true then please come forward with press release on FSF letter pad accusing cpim so that we can end the controversies. Why FSF still does not condemn the undemocratic, immoral way of protest that took place. Are these happening with the knowledge of FSF persons who were present in the venue. Are they supporting these. FSF should distance itself from undemocratic,illegal, immoral and unjustifiable acts of protest. Regards, Haynes.

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a clarification needed
by Senthil Sundaram (sensunda) 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

hi Arun , thanks for that personal note. Though I expressed solidarity immediately i knew of this. I need a clarification. 'Novell' signs were put up in the venue earlier. Dr Nagarjuna was on the dias. Did Anivar inform you folks earlier itself..which could have sorted out things peacefully or only things were informed after confrontation. However I did see in the venue and in slashdot that very senior free software foudation folks act without restraint and like any regular flamer which is unfortunate. my report and take on the incident in kochi conference and the frequent flames seen in the recent days. http://slumdweller.wikispaces.com/kochi+conference <http://slumdweller.wikispaces.com/kochi+conference> in solidarity S

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On National Conference on Free Software at Kochi
by Vikram Vincent 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

After a good experience at the First National Conference at Hyderabad I had been planning to attend the Second Conference at Kochi from the time of its announcement a couple of months ago. Even my serious ill-health could not keep me away from the conference as many will vouch. After two weeks of bad health of which 5 days were spent on a hospital bed I woke up from the hospital bed and came straight to Kochi. The Conference was well organised and the 1000+ delegate participation from all over the country was magnificent. It was a representation of the growing peoples' mass movement which cannot be stopped or controlled by vested interests or power centres. What is obvious is the conscious conversion of a developers' movement to a peoples' movement. THE PEOPLE ARE TAKING CHARGE. The resolutions brought out at the conference are important and I hope that they will be released soon. One of the most important talks was the one by Sri. Sitaram Yechury where the issue of the crisis in global capitalism and its impact on people and the role of the Free Software Movement in building the resistance was presented in terms that even a 10th standard student could understand. A couple of years ago when organising the GPLv3 conference I noticed that only a small group of people took responsibility and organised the 'event'. But now the dynamics has changed. Events are being replaced by processes. The Karnataka team (I am not referring to FSUG-Bangalore because though I am an integral part of it I know that it is not representative of Karnataka but only a miniscule part of the Movement. A single community. FSUG B'lore is just a mailing list.) comprising of ordinary people from the slums, computer technical trainers from villages, academicians, IT employees, engineering students and others participated in the conference. The conscious effort to build a mass movement in Karnataka is bearing fruit and this was clear when almost one and a half bus loads of activists from Karnataka reached Kochi. Even the efforts to sideline genuine work and at various important protests/programs could not/cannot dampen our spirits. What struck me as odd was why FSF-India which claims to be THE free software community was not a part of this important process. While we will support causes which are just irrespective of individuals and banners we will definitely not allow elements to disrupt the movement here in Karnataka or anywhere in India and we will continue to work to build the movement the best way we know -- as a mass movement. Join us and you will be assimilated. In solidarity with the Free Software Movement, -- Vikram Vincent +919448810822 http://swatantra.org/

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a clarification needed
by Rahul Computerwala 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

Dear All, Again a personal note, nothing related to FSF India(expect last para). > Though I expressed solidarity immediately i knew of this. I need a > clarification. 'Novell' signs were put up in the venue earlier. Dr Nagarjuna > was on the dias. FSF India or FSF has any untouchability to Novell as far as we know. Dr Nagarjuna was invited for a program and he spoke. I was invited, I participated. Even if Microsoft gives us a slot we will go and speak. There is no issue in that. I hope this answers your question. *On ARUN's Statement * * ok now comes the bigger picture. if arun says he ll go and talk in Microsoft platform y nt use NOVELL's money in Free software convention. they dint spread any NOVELL's ideology so y not use their money for our movement. * * i mean this statement was only to reply for wat ARUn said in the above mail. If they do use Microsoft platform if its available then why so much HALLA to show. Thats why i said was it only for personal gain. Is arun supporting wat Anivar did in Undemocratic way. I dont y people do Double standards. why cant they have clear picture. ths means all they are trying to is selfish and has very little reason. this wat concerns me most and dont like these people saying carriers of non monopolistic flame. I PITY THEM. * * * > Did Anivar inform you folks earlier itself..which could have sorted out > things peacefully or only things were informed after confrontation. I hope Anivar will respond to this. I would add that protest was completely peaceful expect for treatment Anivar and some students received. *ya the protest was completely peaceful except that he was putting up posters forecfully and wanted to gain mileage out of it. so if this is ok then i dont no wat is not good. i hope forcefully putting having no problem means manhandling shouldnt be condemned as they are doing now.* > However I did see in the venue and in slashdot that very senior free > software foudation folks act without restraint and like any regular flamer > which is unfortunate. If you are referring to James, he is an employee of FSF India and he does not have any capacity to talk on behalf of FSF India. So dont try to take put that in FSF India's name. Each member of FSF India board may have their own opinion. That can not become FSF India's opinion unless FSF India board approves it. I dont see any point in dragging FSF India into this discussion. FSF India was not part of the conference though some board members participated in the event. Our participation is no way an endorsement to the conference. FSF India do have its own stand on the conference. Please note that this has nothing to do with what happened. with regards, arun *As i see if some political party members are being of accused of hijacking only cos they support free software movement then there should be no problem in these statements. thats why i suggest people not to be speaking in DOUBLE STANDARDS. be open. adjust to everyone coming along ur way in support. dont shoo away people from this great movement by these speak.* * * * All i again say is dont support vested interests. one or two trivandrum people in FSF-India seem to want accolades only for them and not for the co n tributions from every free software activists - including others in FSF . they are trying to say that they are the most 'orthodox' free software tribe in the country - they are purposefully confusing the rest of the community - they can believe that they are the most orthodox - shudh ghee - but they need not come and create a scene everywhere - let them work * * * *FOR FREE SOFTWARE MOVEMENT AND AGAINST VESTED INTERESTS* * * *DEVILS ADVOCATE FOR FREE SOFTWARE MOVEMENT.*

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on Burning Topic
by Rahul Computerwala 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

Hello everybody, As i see it clearly from the mailing list that only handful of them in this group are trying to create a sense of darkness from one political party so as to gain from it. I dont know for wat reason they should feel feel alienated from it.One only feels alienated in a scene like this is when he/she wants to gain something out of it. See we should be happy that more people are participating in this. And we should also urge ohers to participate as we need everbody to be aware. Infact if more people join it will be more easier as it will strenghten the issue of free software. BUT IF SOME GUYS WANT TO HAVE TO GAIN ADVANTAGE BY HOLDING IT TO THEM JUST LIKE WAT PROPRITERY, MONOPOLISTIC PEOPLE WANT TO DO THEN I THINK THOSE THINGS SHOULSNT BE WELCOMED. AND AS I AM SEEING HERE IF ANIVAR IS ONE AMONG THE FEW GUY WHOSE IS HAVING PROBLEMS THEN HE BETTER GO TO MICROSOFT THAN BEING HERE WHICH WILL FETCH HIM MORE PERSONAL ACCOLADES AND MONEY AS WELL. If this is a community of mass liking and if we want to grow by accepting more people into this thus more ideas and early end to propritery and monopoistic people, we have to have a progressive positive attitude and eagerness to adjust and move in POSITIVE DIRECTION. With extra love care and advise to ANIVAR And a HOPEFUL who wants free sofware in nook and corner of INDIA DEVILS ADVOCATE

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Fwd: [ATPS] My views on the Anivar incident.
by achu.kulangara＠gmail.com 18 Nov '08

18 Nov '08

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: thomas joseph <thomasatps(a)gmail.com> Date: 2008/11/18 Subject: [ATPS] My views on the Anivar incident. I too am sorry for man handling Anivar, 'the spoke-person of free software movement'. But an anti-democrat has crept in him. May be due to emotional upsurge. When he tried upon the freedom of others they too reciprocated. This is what I could understand. Trespassing the limits of democratic rights, pasting posters inside the private property of another as also manhandling was not correct. Both should have been avoided. Then, the question of name of the conference. Both the names 'National conference on free software', the name given by the organisers as also Conference on NON-FREE SOFTWARE' the name given by the supporters of Anivar 'the spoke-person of free software movement' are meaningful and reflect the content of the conference. Non-free software also were exhibited. Those who use non-free software also were present. We invited every body because the conference was meant for promoting the use of free software. Unless they come how can we interact with them. It was not a meeting of users of free software to chalk out their program. It was the meeting of all who used, started using in the past, start using now and will use in future. So we called every body. Some came. Many did not come as they were using non free software. The stand taken by Anivar, 'the spoke-person of swathanthra software' is meant to drive away those who wants to come to the fold of free software movement. How will those people be attracted to the movement. Anivar has to review his fundamentalist stance. He should ponder over this issue in its depth. At least in Kerala, one of the major hurdles for the advancement of free software movement during the past 10 years is the fundamentalist stands taken by the self proclaimed spokespersons of swathanthra software, including FSF-India. They seems to be of the view that software was freed by them, that FSF liberated software all over the world, FSF-India did it in India and Anivar Aravind did it in Kerala. They should know that software was free earlier. Most of them are free even today. But still mass of the people could not use them due to other deprivations. Socially owned Software was appropriated by few and declared them proprietary. The greatness of FSF lies in the fact that it framed the legal frame work to prevent further appropriation of that created in social domain. The FSF-India is using its name and preventing the growth of free software movement by its company form of structure. This company structure is helpful for the purpose FSF was formed, to sustain the legal frame work. But it is a hurdle for a mass movement. At least in India, FSF-India is preventing the spread of the ideals of FSF and the free software movement. SMC is a very good collaborative effort. It has enriched Malayalam. Anivar is not alone in it. Anivar is a gentleman in many respects. Young. Better if he has a bit more historic sense and able to understand the crooked ones. My request to Anivar is to try not to be the tool in the hands of FSF-India. He has to shirk off the dependence due to his earlier employment with FSF-India. -- With warm greetings. Joseph Thomas, thomasatps(a)gmail.com, 9447738369. "DREAM IS NOT WHAT YOU SEE IN SLEEP, IS THE THING WHICH DOES NOT LET YOU SLEEP"

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Exhibition on Free Software
by Anoop Jacob Thomas 17 Nov '08

17 Nov '08

Discussion on Free Software Exhibition, Although we are planning to conduct an Install Fest for the public for three days, and few workshops on these days, we also feel that the Install Fest as such will not do the job(to educate the public on Free Software), we need to add some spice to it. We have thought of having a small contest for the public, in which they may take a chit out of a box and if they can answer the question on the chit, they will be given something for free (a CD and few stickers), likewise we make sure they get to know the idea of Free Software. Still more ideas needed. Speakers who are willing to conduct a small workshop/lecture on these days are welcome, please send us the details. We cannot expect everyone who uses computers in their daily life to be technologically sound. So it is not the technology alone which actually matters. It is indeed important to educate the general public about the philosophy of Free Software. Because most of the people who switch to Free Software do not really understand what the great Movement is all about. They do not know their rights and privileges which they get along with Free Software. For many users, it is just another software like any other proprietary software, while it is not so. We have to make them understand that, technology is basically the same for both Free and proprietary software, but since Free Software is open to changes by each one of us, it can be made better to suit our needs and therefore, *Free Software is almost always superior in functioning to proprietary software.* We can put up some posters/charts which convey the basic idea of Free Software through cartoons, in such a way that even those who are not technologically sound in computers can understand the philosophical aspect of the Free Software Movement. Those who are interested to contribute as artists/cartoonists are always welcome. Or if you are not that confident about your artistic skills you can put in just your ideas on how to convey to the public the four main freedoms that Free Software gives and what Free Software ultimately is. If anyone has such kind of poster materials please forward it to my email id (anoopjt at gmail dot com). Please upload it to the community also. -- Anoop Jacob Thomas Volunteer, Free Software Community M: 9846670945

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[Free Software, Free Society] 2nd International Conference on Freedom in Computing, Development and Culture
by Anoop Jacob Thomas 17 Nov '08

17 Nov '08

Hello Friends, All of you must be aware of the next biggest event happening in Kerala on Free Software. Free Software, Free Society, the 2nd International Conference on Freedom in Computing, Development and Culture on 9th, 10th and 11th of December, 2008. Website: www.fsfs.in The main events of the conference are talks by eminent personalities like: Richard Matthew Stallman (RMS)(Founder GNU and FSF), Jimmy Wales (Founder Wikipedia), Eben Moglen (Chairman of Software Freedom Law Center), NIIBE Yutaka (Chairman of the Free Software Initiative of Japan (FSIJ)), Neville "Roy" Singham (Founder and Chairman of ThoughtWorks, Inc), Georg C. F. Greve (Initiator and president of the Free Software Foundation Europe), Anand Babu (Board member of FSF-India. Cofounder and CTO of Z RESEARCHl Inc), they are just very few to mention. The talks will be held at Mascot Hotel Trivandrum and it will be restricted to registered participants because of space constraints. Then the major attraction of the conference will be exhibitions,workshops and a GNU/Linux Install Fest or a Free Software Exhibition which will include a Free Software Install Fest also, to be held open for the public at Kanakakunnu Palace, Trivandrum. Here as Free Software communities all of us have a great opportunity to be a part of the event and also the responsibility to give support to it in all ways we can. We need volunteers who can devote their time for this event. Do pour in your ideas and suggestions as to the contents of the exhibitions and workshops and also as to the different events that can be conducted in addition to the above mentioned ones (as part of Free Software Exhibition). Join the mailing list for further discussions, http://www.fsfs.in/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fsfs-discuss and http://fsfs.in/cgi-bin/mailman/subscribe/fsfs-announce for announcements to registered participants The main motto of this event is to educate the public about Free Software. So we the Free Software Community (not just any specific mailing list, but the entire community) has a great responsibility on our shoulders. Join the mailing lists and start discussing. -- Anoop Jacob Thomas Volunteer, Free Software Community

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National conference and related issues
by Arun M 17 Nov '08

17 Nov '08

Dear Friends, This is a personal note form my side. What happened yesterday was really unfortunate. It was primarily a mistake committed by group of volunteers who had no clue of free software (they admitted that) or what is the issue being raised by Anivar and others. Aroun 12 pm (dont remember exactly) we got call from anivar saying that he was thrown out of exhibition and few other students managing stalls were treated badly. Amarnath Raja (IEEE Chair, Kerala), myself and Vimal tried to mediate with organisers of the exhibition, we requested them to allow protesters to put posters in two stalls which are managed by them. Our request was rejected and we were also treated badly. This forced us all to participate in a very peaceful protest near the venue. We sat down peacefully and then(may be after 1 hr) two organisers came and said they want to discuss and resolve. They said we can not sit there, we agreed.They also said they will enquire into what happened. Everything ended there. Dont make more stories around this. Students who were manhandled and threatened are going to give complaints. I hope organisers will take action to ensure that this is not repeated. It is a lesson for organisers of other similar events also. Had the organisers (of exhibition,) allowed putting up some small posters, none of this issue would have happened. (Exhibition seems to be done separately from main event. That is what i was told.) regards, arun.

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Experiences of National Conference at Cochin
by jaykumar hs 17 Nov '08

17 Nov '08

Hi, Unperturbed by the continued fight over the mailing list, I would like to share my experience of participating in the National Conference at Cochin. We, some of the Kannada Bloggers from Bangalore, had joined the larger group which was heading to Cochin. It was inspiring for us to know that Kerala Government is the leading state in using free software in its departmental applications. Though some of us are not Software developers, we have been in this free software activities to make use of the power of freedom in promoting our Kannada language. Many of us have been working to put the Kannada literary works on the website like, kannada sahithya dotcom, samvaada dot com, etc. There were tens of technical sessions, many workshops from high-tech programs to language localization which helped us a lot. Exhibitions on Anti-war, fascism, poverty, ethnic conflict, CIA's role in destabilizing developing worlds, etc were the most inspiring and unforgettable components of the event. Exhibitions participated by about 80-100 stalls would surely highlight the true efforts of organizers in reaching the free software to thousands and thousands of people. It speaks that free software activities are not just limited to some Board-room meetings or class rooms. Let us salute the organizers, volunteers and CUSAT for their untiring efforts for providing such world class exposure for students, technocrats, and common people. May we look forward to FSF India for more of such events which empower the people with free software technologies? But let us not forget to avoid NOVEL or any other monopolies, atleast in future. Let us not forget to unite while fighting against such monopolies. Instead of hijacking "the efforts of boycotting" the monopolies, let us work together for united fight against Monopolies. Jaykumar

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Fsf-friends November 2008