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rh8 sawfish
by Brian Pang 09 Nov '02

09 Nov '02

I got rid of metacity by as root rpm -e firstboot rpm -e metacity (firstboot was the only dependency) log out of gnome log back in using failsafe (if graphical, else, just log back in on the command line) edit the file /home/~user/.gconf/desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager changing /usr/bin/metacity to /usr/bin/sawfish log back into gnome if I tried to make the change with the "System Tool" terminal, metacity would change the file back to using metacity. grrr.. so that's why I deleted it and did it outside of gnome. however, you cannot save window attributes, still... had to log out and "Save Current Setup"... geesh... >From linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Tue Oct 22 18:36:54 2002 From: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in (Green, Shaun) Date: Tue Oct 22 18:36:54 2002 Subject: [ILUG-BOM] RedHat 8 - Switching back to Sawfish Message-ID: <CBA5720BD606864A8D6FFFE53D4B81F201585D0C(a)nsstcex2.nsstc.nasa.gov> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C27922.62009710 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone know how to switch off this terrible bluecurve crap and get back to Sawfish?? I want to use my GTK themes; like BlueHeart. Thanks, Shaun linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in (Tahir Hashmi) Date: Wed Oct 9 11:52:43 2002 Subject: [ILUG-BOM] [rant] Red Hat 8 Desktop under-featured and less configurable Message-ID: <20021009113608.3443df87.code_martial(a)softhome.net> Hi Linuxers! Okay, Gnome2 and Bluecurve look really cool, especially with AA fonts but there's quite a lot that I didn't like. Here are the issues (when I say that something "is" or something "isn't", it is supposed to be *AFAIK* and not the absolute truth): - Under-featured window manager: The MetaCity Window manager doesn't have any options for layering management and attribute memory. I can't keep EveryBuddy on top now. - No options for custom keyboard short-cuts: Unlike Enlightenment or Sawfish, there's no provision for having keyboard shortcuts to run commands. There's a lot more move-move click-click involved now. - No option to switch Window Managers! I installed RH8 clean on one system and upgraded another. The former doesn't have sawfish, the latter doesn't have an option to switch Window Managers, even though it has Sawfish. - Complicated Menu: The main menu is now more broad than deep a la KDE and that was one of the main reasons why I didn't like KDE. - Overall lack of customizability I could go on and on but to summarize, a lot of customizability that Gnome users had grown accustomed to is now gone and the overall feel has a lack of "freedom". - The Terminal is now a "System Tool" (duh!) I looked around the Net a little and I didn't find many people ranting about these things. Is it just me? Am I missing something? I'd be grateful if some of you could give some pointers. TIA

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For Open Source Advocates ..( Microsofts internal memo on the opensource initiative )
by Kiran Nadgir 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

The document reproduced below was presented at a Microsoft internal Linux Strategic Review held at the Microsoft offices in Berlin during Sept. 2002 Open-source software advocates have concluded that a leaked Microsoft Corp. memorandum detailing a survey it conducted of IT professionals on their views of open-source software shows that Microsoft's public relations tactics on open source are failing and that, to win out against the software giant, open-source software advocates need only "stay the course http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween7.php ----------------------------------------------------------------- Kiran Nadgir Mahindra British Telecom. Tel : 6922000 extn - 8070. Mobile - 9820444403. Email - kirann(a)mahindrabt.com WebSite: www.mahindrabt.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Quote of the week ~~ If you have it [love], you don't need to have anything else, and if you don't have it, it doesn't matter much what else you have. --Sir James M. Barrie ~~ ----------------------------------------------------------------- ************************************************************** Scanned by eScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software. Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan. ************************************************************** ********************************************************* Disclaimer This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. ********************************************************* Visit us at http://www.mahindrabt.com

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windows vs Linux
by Prince 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Hi there , all experts of Linux this is Prince asking the most important Questions ? can anybody send me the complete list of points : 1] " In what way Linux is better [ can be ] for DESKTOP PC , for normal user ? " i repeat ..... For NORMAL user . i know it's best for all Networking purposes ,,,,but abt new enthu people who wants to try Linux as there Day to Day Default desktop OS ? 2] What abt others who are normal users & wanna try Linux for a Ultimate experience ? where we are lacking to put this Linux OS in front of them ? [ we are only enjoying this thing & sharing between our selves ] i got Linux Redhat 8.0 it's ok [ my xmms is without mp3 support ] , no software got MPEG with redhat windows [ not talking abt KDE & gnome pack ] waiting for reply , Prince [ Agent 1 ] " Digitalagents "

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LINK: Taking the FLOSS debate into the 'development' campaign...
by Frederick Noronha 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Just to share with you: I've come across this fascinating presentation by an EU official in Vietnam, who argues that 'development' organisation in the First World should throw their weight behind Free/Libre and Open Source Software. This is a fascinating set of arguments. So far, few in the 'development/NGO network' (apart from rare exceptions like Sunil Abraham of Mahiti.org in Bangalore and the Sarai network in Delhi, and the Dehradun-based publishers of 'Software Freedom') have appreciate the power of, or worked seriously on, FLOSS. [Disclosure of interest: I have received a print-media fellowship from Sarai in the past year.] Interestingly, this document is released under the terms and conditions of the GNU Free Documentation License. Surely a worthy read. I would encourage everyone interested in taking this debate forward to please persue it. If you would like a copy, just send mail to fred(a)bytesforall.org with the subjectline FLOSS-PRESENTATION. Thank you. FN PS: My apologies for reducing very interesting arguments to a few bytes of poorly-represented text. My limited abilities did not allow me to convert the speaker notes, words he used and graphics into extracts in text suitably. The presentation does a better job of that. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * FREE/LIBRE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE AS OFFICIAL DEVELOPMENT AID Jordi Carrasco-Mu�oz EC Delegation to Vietnam jordi(a)bigfoot.com jordi.carrasco-munoz(a)delvnm.cec.eu.int _________________ Disclaimer: - The text represents the author's opinions only - Text released under GNU Free Documentation License - Request copies to the author - FORTHCOMING: Global Implementation Plan Developing countries can neither miss the benefits of the IT revolution, nor afford its cost (IPRs in particular) Donors and multilaterals have a responsibility to provide an alternative, if available FLOSS is today the only alternative available PROPOSAL ODA-FLOSS will be implemented. Why? The question is: Who will be the first to do it? I.T. REVOLUTION IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES IT is today's Industrial Revolution Ability to leapfrog into latest technology Complement Industrial Development Small IT clusters, even in remote areas... Quotes: "Cost Windows XP + MS Office: Standard Version $560. Professional Version $800. a) COST (for a country like) VIETNAM (where the GDP per capita $440/year) XP+Office = 1 Year 3 months. XP+Office (Pro) = 1 Year 10 months. a) COST (III) Cost-Equivalent for the US (GDP per capita $30,200/Year). XP+Office = $38,436 XP+Office (Pro) = $54,909. (Is it very surprising that the) percentage of pirated Software in Vietnam (is) 97%" Source of information: Amazon.com (13 May 2002) "Microsoft 2000 localised in 24 languages. There are 8,500 languages in the world.... Open Office can be localised in 2 weeks." "Like science, FLOSS builds as a community, on top of past work." "No backdoors + No spyware." "All software (on a sponsored distro) must be Free/Libre as defined by the Free Software Foundation.... All applications must be fully localised and documented... Include Open Office. Why? ... The first version must be Windows-based. Why?" "Pareto's 80/20 Rule applied to software -- (20% of applications solve 80% of needs). Substitutes a key application. Example for users that Open Source works. Other candidates: Mozilla, MySQL, Gimp, ... (suggestions welcome) Why a Windows FLOSS CD-ROM? MS Windows is the way towards a full FLOSS system (for private users).... Microsoft Windows runs on 94% of desktops. Private users cannot be forced into FLOSS. We must earn their trust in FLOSS." "Cost of a FLOSS CD-Rom: (quotation: www.goldenrom.com). 10.000 Copies - $4,600 50,000 Copies - $17,500 100,000 Copies - $32,000 500,000 Copies - $135,000 1,000,000 Copies - $250,000. Cost of ODA-FLOSS CD-Rom for one-fourth of 'pirate' computers." "Recycling legislation: Cheaper shipping PCs to developing countries than recycling them (also tax deductible). Donated PCs tend to be stripped of parts, software or licenses, using a FLOSS OS is an obvious choice." "India (Simputer), Brazil, etc... are creating low-cost computers targeted to low-income communities"

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Re: GPL Fonts
by Frederick Noronha 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

That's very kind of you Michael. I'll pass on your note to others who might be interested. -- Frederick -- Frederick Noronha * Freelance Journalist * Goa * India 832.409490 / 409783 BYTESFORALL www.bytesforall.org * GNU-LINUX http://linuxinindia.pitas.com Email fred(a)bytesforall.org * Mobile +9822 122436 (Goa) * Saligao Goa India Writing with a difference... on what makes *the* difference On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Michael Steidley wrote: > Hello! > > I recently read your article in Linux Journal about Indian language > solutions in linux. > > I'm a graphics designer and digital media specialist. I've been creating > fonts for over ten years and I'm interested in helping create fonts for > Indian languages which do not have any GPL fonts available. > > If you could put me in contact with someone concerning this matter I would > greatly appreciate it. > > Thank you for your time. > > > --Michael Steidley >

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Let's combine powers
by Prince 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Hi there , it first time digitalagents is asking people to combine power : You may ask these questions : & here is the answer # for whome ? for all the people out there using MS [ Microsucks ]windows there are some reasons why they are doing like this : Linux what is that ? they do not know much abt Linux & it's power they think Linux is not upto that level [ they have not seen REdhat 8.0 yet ] they think its hard to learn linux their fundamentals are not clear abt linux & system & most important : you people [ me also ] are not taking any efforts to make the clear idea abt Linux . for what ? to take as many people with RIGHT & PERFECT OS [ that's Linux ] why we should do this ? cause you are making mistakes by just writting vanila text for linux people & not for all those Bill's fans [ windows users ] because you want to promote linux straight from your heart because you hate Bill's blue screen of death because you only can do because Linux is great because you can make it much better who we are ? basically Digitalagents is a Group of people in INDIA taking lead in awareness of BEST ways of computing , All Free of cost . We provide the best information for FREE . If we say Linux is the best , We should prove it ! we need your help guys ! What you have to do ? in a very simple & short lines Write for all those MS users : 1] the short story abt Linux [ history ] 2] the points why Linux is better than Windows 3] what abt Linux on Desktop PC for Day-to-Day life activity ? 4] which are tools like MS windows = Linux 5] The list of Best softwares in Linux See friends we have to take this step , select any of the above 5 points & write few words but it should be perfect [ if you only confident abt what you say , as you have to prove it ] on your key strokes we [ in india ] can make revolution & can put Linux in front of everyone ! do something ! Let's combine the power & make a Complete & solid text " Why Linux ? " be a part of digitalagents Join the revolution ! make it in Linux - Way ! digitalagents(a)indiatimes.com _Agent1

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NEWS- Stallman: Disk, I/O issues delay GNU OS
by Frederick Noronha 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Stallman: Disk, I/O issues delay GNU OS By John Ribeiro November 6, 2002 2:54 pm PT BANGALORE, INDIA -- The release of a production version of the free GNU operating system (OS) has been delayed beyond the end of the year, as the current development version of the system does not support large disk partitions and high speed serial I/O (input-output), according to Richard Stallman, president of the Boston-based Free Software Foundation (FSF). "I would say that when two features that are that essential are still missing, we are not at version 1.0 of the system yet," Stallman told IDG News Service in an interview this week in Bangalore. Stallman was however noncommittal on a new release date. In an interview in March, Stallman said that the production version of the GNU OS was likely to be ready by the end of this year. Developers working on the current development version of the GNU system, also called the GNU/Hurd to distinguish it from GNU/Linux, have found limitations in the Hurd kernel and the GNU Mach microkernel, according to Stallman. "There are two problems that have to be solved," Stallman said. "One of them is the lack of high-speed, serial-line handling, and the other is the limit on the size of a file system which is at somewhere between one to two gigabytes, which means that if you get a moderate size disk you have to divide it into smaller partitions, which is a nuisance." To solve the serial port problem, the GNU project is switching from the GNU Mach to the OSKit Mach, a Mach based on the OSKit for OS development from the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, Utah. "That version of Mach is supposed to get high speed serial line support, although it apparently isn't there in yet," Stallman said. Before the GNU project could switch to the OSKit Mach, it had to rewrite the [Image]terminal support in the Hurd to support virtual consoles. The GNU project has also got developers to work on the problem of the limit on the size of the current Hurd file system. "There are many other things that we want to do that will make the Hurd better, but resolving this issue (of the limit on the size of the file system) is absolutely essential," added Stallman. "I don't think it was realized how bad it is practically speaking not to be able to use whatever your disk partitioning is. Clearly most people are not going to repartition their disks to be able to try out our Hurd based system." Currently some users work with a development version of the GNU/Hurd system distributed by the open source Debian Project. The FSF is also modifying the GNU General Public License (GPL), though the fundamental principles will remain unchanged, according to Stallman. "We have looked at, for example, adding a clause that explicitly states that you give a patent license when you redistribute the software," Stallman added. FSF also plans to incorporate into the GNU GPL a section covering use of software on a computer network. This new section is likely to be on a similar section in the Affero GPL adopted by San Francisco-based Affero Inc. The Affero GPL requires anyone modifying a software program to give immediate access by HTTP (Hypertext Transfer Protocol) to the complete source code of the modified software to other users interacting with the software on the network, if the original program had a provision for this kind of access. John Ribeiro is an India-based correspondent for the IDG News Service, an InfoWorld affiliate. http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/11/06/021106hngnudelay.xml?s=IDG NS ENDS

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urgent requirement for mainframes
by ven madhav 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Hello! This is venu here i represent a professional recruiting firm based at hyd Right now we have an urgent and immediate requirement for mainframes people with over 7 yrs exp for a company by name keane url www.keane.com the position is based at hyd.For immediate consideration pls mail your updated asap.would greatly appreciate your leads and references in this regard Thanks in advance for your time and favours. Best Regards venu Post your ad on Yahoo! India Autos.Check out the used Maruti, Fiat and Ford models on sale now.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] LUG MEET coming Sunday at 4:30
by quasar＠vsnl.net 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

Saswata writes: >Trevor, >Can I have the address for the meeting ? Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education is at 10-15 minutes walking distance from Mankhurd Rly. Stn. on the Harbour line between Kurla and Vashi. (err.. I am not trevor, but hope that helped. ;-) cheers, quasi p.s. below is a crude 'map'. Hope you use constant width fonts. --------- | HBCSE | --------- || ---------------------------------------- > > ^ --- ------------------------------------ | | | | | ^ | -- lots of walking -- | | | | | ^ | [Vashi]+++++[Mankhurd]++++++++++[Kurla]

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Re: Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] HappyDiwali thanx to BILL to bill in BusinessWorld
by vinayak 08 Nov '02

08 Nov '02

-----Original Message----- From: quasar(a)vsnl.net To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in vinayak(a)myrealbox.com wrote >Also you will agree that being not being tied to a >single s/w vendor also makes sound business sense. So >that you are not at the nercy to the whims and >fancies of that particular vendor It makes good sense only sometimes. Consider this example: I am a company developing some solution for a specialised domain. I choose some OS and a commercial tool for the development from company X. I also buy the support package offered by that X. Well, during the development process we face many problems which are promptly dealt with by the support team at X. They also patch the product for a few of our specific needs. I find it a well worth investment for buying the tool from X. Replace X with Xanalys. The 'tool' was Lispworks. The guy who posted the above at c.l.l was Dave Bakhash and he was extremely satisfied with Lispworks and Xanalys. It helped him complete his (telephony product I think) ahead of schedule. The point is Commercial Proprietary Software per say is not evil. The Free Software Movement come from a Utopian spirit exibhited by some people. There is no need for one side to be evil for the other side to be 'good'. -------------------- You have missed the point. The point here is not good vs evil but about what one would prefer as businessman The example that you have given is not that common Anyways you don't get patches and updates within minutes/hours by any vendor. If they do they are very rare But this is common in the free software world as others on this group will testify. Although i agree,it is sometimes criminal to generalise I can take this liberty in this regard here as the evidence in favour of free software (in terms of support such as this mailing list) is overwhelmingly lopsided. --> Vinayak Hegde

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