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using already blocked device
by Harshal 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

hi, is there a way i can use a device blocked by one program, if required by another prog.? the situation is like this, i am running skype on linux and at the same time i want to play xmms for some songs, (i can do it in windows, skype and winamp together so i hear the person as well as some music in backgrond.) to my knowledge i dont think its possible in linux, but just wanting to wish the i am wrong ;-)

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Opterom mobo {ot]
by jtd 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Any recomendations on opteron mobos and cpu -- Rgds JTD

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using USB to IDE converters with gnu/linux
by krishnakant Mane 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

hello, this might be slightly off topic I am marking the off topic part of this email with <ot> and ending with <noot> because the OT part will be most interesting to people like JTD in particular. <ot> I have a 40 g ide hard disk and I am aware that there are USB to IDE converters available. my idea was to convert this IDE hard disk to an external USB hard disk. how viable is this? I know that the power would be a problem, correct me if I am wrong jtd. but USB pen drives and external hard disks are all powered from the USB port itself. please suggest me if this is possible. <noot> now on to the gnu/linux specifrics. if my above idea is viable, will my hard disk be sda or hda? how will it be mounted? and if I want to load a complete operating system like debian, will it be possible? regards. Krishnakant.

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DSL on old computer configurations
by Roshan 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

A few days back, I gave DSL on a RW to my cousin. He has an old machine whose specs are: Intel Celeron Processor 466 MHz Creative 52X CD-ROM 128 MB RAM Micro ATX External Sound Card. I asked him to boot DSL and the computer was successfully able to boot DSL. However, his desktop was not enhanced with regular Icons, leaving him a bit clueless. I explained him how to start applications and minor details. However, when he mounted his drive, and started playing songs, a few minutes later, his computer started to restart on its own. Is even DSL too hungry on resources? or is it because of the old computer? (Its almost 7 years old). I have not been able to boot Knoppix on his computer. -- http://360.yahoo.com/sriram4420 __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3 (Mrugesh Karnik)
by Vihan Pandey 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

> From: Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com> > To: "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:45:43 +0530 > Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3 > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 21:02, Nagarjuna G. wrote: > > 2006/10/10, Mrugesh Karnik <mrugeshkarnik(a)gmail.com>: > > > On Tuesday 10 October 2006 16:19, Nagarjuna G. wrote: > > GNU doesn't own any software, GNU is software. GNU is not a person, > > not a company, so the ownership issue doesn't arise. > > There goes Vihan's argument from the Andheri BoF. Granted that he did > not mean that GNU owned the kernel, but I suppose he has no right to > say this: > > "But Linus himself uses GCC to build the kernel.." Mrugesh, the context was in terms of ``credit is given where credit is due and reciprocating". If you are quoting anyone, please mention the`complete' context in which the statement was made. Regards, - vihan

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Re: cdrecord 2.0
by Roshan 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Dinesh Joshi Wrote: > You have a deathwish or what? lol :) hehe...no.. >Its easier to > migrate your system > to debian than to recompile the kernel. Seriously > speaking, its not > that tough to recompile it but it takes a lot of > time and effort. Its > just not worth it, atleast for end users. I have this thought in my mind to compile a kernel, because, one of my cousin brother suggested that I should surely try it out. He said, "it is great fun". But for sometime(or for a longtime), I won't be trying it out. (till I complete my PG) I would however, be migrating to Kubuntu, as soon as I purchase a new hdd. > But if > your requirements is > to run RH9 then there are some premade upgrades. You > can check them > out. But they are unoffical ones so you gotta be > careful. :) My system is older than one would think. One could also compare it as having Windows 98 on a Intel 915 / P4 3.06 Ghz with 512 MB of RAM ;)...(I donno, whether it works too..:-/)... I have been upgrading only Firefox on RH9. Rest, remain as they were from CD, as they serve my needs best. -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Linux as a status symbol.
by Rony 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Hello All, At the Five Gardens BoF, I had mentioned about companies using Linux as a status symbol, thus helping in the spread of Linux. Suppose every company that completely uses Linux announces in its ad "We are proud to announce that our organization is completely running on Linux" Then the ad says, "Why Linux" it goes on "Because linux has proved to be very secure and stable and is immune to ...blah blah" Another case. I don't know if there is anything like an IT insurance but if such a thing comes up, Linux enabled companies would have to pay lesser premium as their systems are anyway more secure. Those who use less secure ;) systems pay more premium as they carry a higher risk. If you can think of more such ideas please post them. This will bring about a positive effect on how Linux is viewed, like a high standard, difficult to achieve but something that carries a lot of weight and gains. Is there any independent IT or systems security certification that companies can adopt? If it doesn't exist, can some organizations in India start it? I am sure Linux will stand first in every security test. 'Other' insecure systems can be given the low grade. Regards, Rony. ___________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html

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24 Online cyberoam client
by Sumit Punglia 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Hi Finally successful to run net via linux thru RajASS Cablenet. After a lots of fight with linc.sourceforge which didn't worked for me. Finally the solution came to my mind. You have to run crclient by root. By the way any of you have tried setting up an home network. Which hub etc. to be used and how much does it cost ? How many extra problems arises with RajASS cablenet. --Pungi

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linux debate
by BombayNews 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

wonder why techies on this forum debating on taking linux to the people devote much time on the free/open source issue. Outside the rarefied world of coders working on linux this debate is completely meaningless. The wo/man on the street needs an OS that is stable, gets the work done without much ado and preferably free. Could linuxers focus on this? Getting such a hassle-free system on the desktops of people intending to migrate out of the Windows environment would be the clearest test for taking Linux to the masses. Shiv Kumar

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Re: cdrecord 2.0
by Roshan 11 Oct '06

11 Oct '06

Devdas Bhagat Wrote: > In kernels 2.4 and below, you need to turn on SCSI > emulation (ide-scsi). Ah! Now, I know, why I shouldn't be using Redhat Linux 9.0 or atleast learn to compile a new kernel. ;) > In 2.6, just pass cdrecord the ATA device. > > cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc foo.iso I'll see if I can try this over Kubuntu, when I install it after some weeks. (or FC5) Vihan Wrote: > Consequently cdrw tools became the norm for CD > writing. and they use cdrecord internally and emulate IDE-SCSI for ATAPI drives. (Correct me if I am wrong) Faraz Shahbazker Wrote: > On Debian Sarge this is documented in detail at: > /usr/share/doc/cdrecord/README.ATAPI.setup Hey, thanks for this. I don't know why, but I always forget that there is this directory where most of the packages, that I have installed, have its documentation. I have got a similar file (README.ATAPI), that has helped me understand more details. Thanks! (to all the three of you!) -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Abhishek Choudhary 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Well why not "Linux/GNU" instead of "GNU/Linux"? Is it some age factor? :) All right, if you use Hurd then probably only GNU or Hurd/GNU! To be clear, show me one machine that runs vanilla "GNU". Amusing right - you might think I am a novice who does not know why one needs a kernel! If _you_ do understand the need for a kernel then why emphasize that GNU is an "Operating System" instead of claiming it to be what it actually is - a wonderful "toolchain". If it is the concept of userland / toolchain / original credit then let it be "Linux/GNU". The Linux kernel, and probably even the BSD kernels, have had a major role to play in making the "GNU" userland available to non- techie users - lets say non computer scientists. So ultimately what FSF is trying to emphasize is probably that even though your machines' resources are being handled by Linux or some other kernel, it is actually the GNU tool chain that the user is using right from the level of the shell (GNU bash). Well then GNU is indeed dependent on Linux, just as the latter is dependent on it. Lets call a chair a chair and a table a table. Now, if you are even slightly convinced read on, or else send in a deluge of bandwidth blocking replies which ultimately serve no purpose towards user empowerment, without reading any further. Lets get things clear and straight - I am one of the greatest fans of RMS. Being a compilers enthusiast myself RMS is like a God considering his contributions begining with Bison and the GPL philosophy. Yes the GPL philosophy and just the license. And that philosophy is "freedom". Then why does GPL tend to restrict it? Why are non-English versions of GPL not officially available? (correct me if this is novice Q) Why does GPL not address the issues regarding localisation? Why does GPL take away ones rights to actually write prorietary code derived from it? (Forgive me if I have touched on a painful nerve) There are numerous commercial software vendors who use GNU software in their commercial stuff. For instance HP- UX. All of us who have used it know the extent to which GNU is a part of HP-UX. It suits HP's model. They are a hardware vendor, and make money from hardware more than they do from software. However, think of a small time developer. An individual who has his aspiations, dreams, wishes, and a word in his heart which reads like "freedom". If he were to develop a very niche piece of software, he would be forced to make public his source code because he cannot use commercial tool-chain, and is therefore left with GNU, which implies his code falls under the GPL license. Now whose freedom are we talking about??? The big companies who will not waste any time in consuming his code into their commercial software. (Ah well - I have heard that "joke" about every software gets its economic worth! It happens in a developed nation but not where people cut short a day's meal to one, or maybe fast, to pay their computer institute fees.) Please! Lets talk freedom - freedom as in free, lest freedom becomes the next f-word! Look at the 95% of our population to whom all of this discussion just does not make any sense. No not because it is not relevant, but because it is in English! Just as a piece of _information_, the Indian copyright laws give the copyright to the translator if the original author did not publish the Indian language version of her work. The time probably is not far when this 95% super-majority will get tired of our useless musings and revolt, and convert the existing GNU source code to Indic programming languages, and yes get the copyright. Get it!!!!!! Still not. Come on get down to producing some real work now. Probably instead of keying in useless comments and counter comments, concentrate on keying in at least a few lines of code. You will certainly be helping FSF a lot more that way. And indeed if you also do something for the 95% (which many of you involved in Indic localisation are actually doing), then trust me you will also have done a lot of good towards "Freedom". Regards, Abhishek

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Vihan Pandey 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

> Mrugesh, when YOU create something YOU are the copyrite holder and that is > unquestionable. You will be credited no matter what. The question is if one > ``truly" believes in a community spirit you name it something consistent > with it. That's probably why GNU C is not called "the Stallman compiler" but > it could have if the person concerned put his ego before the > community(``unlike" some people). Moreover on top of that claiming that you > are a champion of digital rights is ludicrous. > > Stallman could have even trademarked Emacs, GNU C, GDB, > Bison(co-trademarking ?) with each news/magazine/web pages advertising "XYZ > is Trademark of Richard Stallman". > > What I hate about you FSF people is that you try and steal credit. You > > just said the same thing again... Use GNU in the name? WHY? Make up a > > name that highlights freedom, _very very clearly_. > > > Any suggestions? By the way in Revolution OS Linus himself said he wanted > to call it Freeix, but he ``wasn't that egoistic then". > > Oh and mind you, you say GNU/Linux not GNU & Linux. The only place where > > I've seen that second term used is on those stickers: > > "GNU + Linux, the dynamic duo". > > I think that's fair. Clearly states that Linux is a separate project. > > GNU/Linux does not do that. > > > By the way those stickers are courtesy FSF. Also, during Stallman's recent > talk there were a few badges given out to the lucky few who came in first > and grabbed them :-) with The GNU, Tux and Beastie on them crediting FSF, > Linux and FreeBSD. FSF has never for a second ``forgotten" Linux, RMS has > repeatedly stated in countless speeches that a kernel was the need of the > day and Linus fulfilled it at the right time. But how often is the reverse > done? > > Highlight "request". I agree with Linus. If the kernel developers think > > that GPL 3 is no good for the kernel, so be it. Let it be under GPL 2. > > Why create an issue? Highlight "request". > > > Do ALL the developers agree? If they do then as they are the copyrite > holders they have every right to put it ``all of it" under GPL v2. If there > are developers who think different and hold a copyrite on certain modules > they could just as well go in for GPL v3. > > Again, no intention of a flame war. But if you are going to use sentences > like ``hate about you FSF people" i doubt if i could just sit by. > > Regards, > > - vihan >

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

"Dinesh Shah" Wrote: > Hi Roshan, Hello :) > Ubuntu should be considered as a business in > "Investment Phase", where > business invests to create it's market share. I had > a long discussion > with Mark Shuttleworth on this when he was in India. But its webpages and the CD-covers state that Ubuntu will be always free of charge (no money, free). So did he mean, that the software is going to cost money once, it acquires a greater market share? > This is termed as "Donation Economy". However, I am > not in favour of > such an economy. Such a economy is not sustainable > over long period of > time. I too think how can it be sustainable. But, hasn't the FSF proved it to be? -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Mrugesh Karnik Wrote: > What I hate about you FSF people is that you try and > steal credit. You > just said the same thing again... Use GNU in the > name? WHY? Make up a > name that highlights freedom, _very very clearly_. > Oh and mind you, you say GNU/Linux not GNU & Linux. > The only place where > I've seen that second term used is on those > stickers: > > "GNU + Linux, the dynamic duo". > > I think that's fair. Clearly states that Linux is a > separate project. > GNU/Linux does not do that. Warning: I am not doing *ga ga gee gee over*(spouting), in favour of either the GNU or FSF or Linus Torvalds. After reading documents at http://www.gnu.org, its understood, Mr. Richard Stallman acknowledges Linus's effort and therefore, the name GNU/Linux. The use of GNU/Linux implicitly indicates, GNU plus Linux or GNU+Linux. I somehow feel, it still indicates, Linux is a great project. It clearly distinguished the credit of Linus and also maintained the credibility of GNU itself. If Linus Torvalds deserves a better credit, name it Linux/GNU. Linus in his first email, had mentioned, that it is not going to be as big as the GNU (or as professional as it it). He believes, that the kernel code was meant to be distributed free of cost (and nothing related to freedom). The GNU team, was lucky enough to be successful in obtaining the Linux Kernel, and serving it as their core kernel for the entire GNU operating system. -- http://www.linuxreality.com (Podcasts also for LINUX USERS) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 10 Oct '06

10 Oct '06

Rony wrote: > In case of the former, one can charge any X amount > from the client for > making a customized package. > > But in the latter, suppose I make a CAD software > thats very good and > works just like the popular closed CAD software. I > post it on the net > under GPL and keep a price of some 100s of dollars. > Now some smart alec > who is out to ruin my business compiles my code and > even acknowledges my > good work and puts the package on the net for a free > download. He is > doing a perfectly legal thing as the GPL allows > this. So how do I run my > company when my work is available to others for free > as in beer. When we consider such a scenario, the ratio of developers / programmers and customers (or end users) would result to less than 1 (< 1). By this, I mean, there are far more end-users than developers and programmers. Again, if smart alec, put its on the internet, there would some investment, that would make him re-consider, putting it for free. Secondly, he would have to invest in advertising that he's put your software as free download. Considering the cost of $100, it would also indicate that you have some amount invested in good advertising and that your software is under GPL. Even then considering the worst case scenario, Vinayak Suggested: > 4) Dual licensing source code for commercial use (one of his points). I found the following page descirbing dual licensing http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk/resources/duallicence2.xml What Ubuntu does is, despite that it sends CD's for free (no cost) to anybody who demands its, provides supports for Ubuntu OS at desktop and server levels. But this in turn indicates, that much of the Free software over the internet are indeed, also, free as in bear, especially Linux distros. Where is the source of money for maintaining mirrors / servers for ISO's of these distros? __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Livecd distro or alternative required
by Krishna Dagli/Krushna Dagli 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

> > Hi > I am working from a hotel room and have good amount of spare time on > weekends. > Can anyone suggest a suitable linux live cd whereby i can work on linux > and > save documents on to my laptop and most important > learn programming. I am on a ibm t41 laptop. I have some books from where > I > can learn programming > > any other alternative similar to livecd also will be useful > > Ninad Use vmware or something so you will not have problem of something missing from the Live Cd and why not dual boot laptop? HTH -Krishna

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Is Open Source safer than Closed Source?
by Sujeet Bhatt 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

Business Week Online Insecurity in Open Source What open-source developers can learn about security and quality from—gasp—makers of proprietary software OCTOBER 6, 2006 Viewpoint By Ben Chelf Debates over what methods result in the best software often pit those who favor an open-source approach against proponents of proprietary, or closed-source, development. Conventional wisdom holds that open-source software should have fewer security flaws than proprietary software. With more eyes able to look at the underlying source code, bugs should be found and squashed much faster. But when software security and quality really matter—like crossing the Atlantic on a jet airliner—trust me, you want to fly proprietary. That conclusion is based on my company's involvement in testing of software security and quality. Working with the Homeland Security Dept. and Stanford University, my firm, Coverity, has closely analyzed 50 of the most popular open-source software projects, scanning more than 20 million lines of code daily. We publish those results here on the Web. BUG TO BUG COMPARISON. For the first time, we've compared those results with proprietary software from more than 100 different companies, including some of the best-known names in aerospace, financial services, software, and telecommunications—more than 60 million lines of code all together. In our research using automatic bug-hunting technology, no open-source project we analyzed had fewer software defects (per thousand lines of code) than the top-of-the-line closed-source application. That proprietary code, written for an aerospace company, is better than the best in open source—more than five times better, in fact. That company's software won't let you down when you're flying from New York to London. Of the more than 150 open-source and proprietary software applications that we have analyzed in this study, closed-source software code grabbed 11 of the top 15 spots for the highest quality and security. Full at: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2006/tc20061006_394140.ht…

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cdrecord 2.0
by Roshan 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

I don't know much about cdrecord, and its man pages specify only SCSI drives for writing to CD. Is it so, that cdrecord is one of the command line options only for *SCSI* optical drives? (CD Writers) I currently use K3b to write CD's, but wanted to try out cdrecord, and it seems as if there's no ATA support with it, is it? -- I am a novice, and still learing __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: cdrecord 2.0 (Roshan)
by Vihan Pandey 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

> > From: Roshan <d_rosh2001(a)yahoo.co.in> > To: Linux User group <linuxers(a)mm.glug-bom.org> > Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:29:39 +0100 (BST) > Subject: [ILUG-BOM] cdrecord 2.0 > I don't know much about cdrecord, and its man pages > specify only SCSI drives for writing to CD. > > Is it so, that cdrecord is one of the command line > options only for *SCSI* optical drives? (CD Writers) > > I currently use K3b to write CD's, but wanted to try > out cdrecord, and it seems as if there's no ATA > support with it, is it? pre kernel 2.6 CD writing ``requires" a SCSI device or SCSI emulation. This was mainly because ATAPI support was not present in the IDE driver. This has been corrected in kernel 2.6 onwards. You can very well use cdrecord, provided you have SCSI emulation enabled. Consequently cdrw tools became the norm for CD writing. Regards, - vihan

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[Commercial]Share Your Views With LFY
by Niraj Sahay 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

Hello All, Greetings from the LINUX For You magazine team! As you all know, we run a section called 'Opinions' in LFY where we pose a question to the community and industry and publish the top five responses (selected by our technical editors) in the magazine. Thanks to all those who responded to the last month's question. The best among the responses received have been published in the October 2006 issue of LFY. This month we have chosen the topic: "Intellectual Property Rights - boon or bane?" What's your take on this? Our eyes and ears are wide open and we are waiting to listen to your ideas. Please write to us at sujata.banerjee(a)efyindia.com with a CC to atul(a)efyindia.com, before 12th October 2006. The top five responses will be published in the November 2006 issue of LINUX for You. Look forward to your responses. Thanks, Sujata Banerjee, Editorial Coordinator, LFY Atul Goel, Asst. Associate Editor, LFY

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Re: Linux as a status symbol.
by Roshan 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

Rony Wrote: > Just curious to know, do the colleges use the WGA > programme and keep > their college pcs up to date with the latest > critical updates? My college has its server running Windows 2003 and all thick clients with Windows XP. Of them, some have Windows Update turned on, while some don't. In previous years, there have been viruses spreading all over the network. Now, things have changed a bit. We already have one AMC Engineer, but I think, we need one more. http://360.yahoo.com/sriram4420 __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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radio guided sign post forgotten!
by krishnakant Mane 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

hello all, seams the project for radio guided sign post is not on the minds of any of the members out here. what should be our next step. we had the meeting rather two meetings and the project seams to have stopped at that point. jtd, could you please email me off the list and provide your contact number. I had lost it some time back. anurag had given some nice ideas in the meeting at HBCSE and I think we can start with it for a simple system. anurag please comment on this. the bar code reading was also a good idea to do a prototype at a very cheep rage. Krishnakant.

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Re: Linus on Linux and the GPLv3
by Roshan 08 Oct '06

08 Oct '06

Philip Tellis Wrote: > http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/9/25/161 > Interesting insights about licencing of the kernel. Seems as if the FSF gained a control over Linus and forced the name GNU/Linux. What RMS said in his public lecture was, that they had to build an operating system and they had started developing components for it. They were left alone without the kernel and luckily, they could find Linus, who was ready to give away the source code of the kernel he developed. Therefore, the GNU project was successful in completion of an Operating System with Linux as its kernel. I had always thought of any Linux distro, the entire operating system, as GNU/Linux and Linux as the kernel of this OS. GNU/Linux because, most of the the application programs that I used were "FREE" software. For newbies like me, the above mentioned link would resort to more discussions and arguments over an active mailing list like GLUG-BOM! __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Report of BoF on wiki
by Roshan 08 Oct '06

08 Oct '06

Kenneth Gonsalves Wrote: > the andheri bof was great - Roshan, > please post the > minutes of that too. As requested, I have posted it on the wiki and is accessible at the following URL. (3rd October 2006) http://db.glug-bom.org/wiki/index.php/Report031006 If there are corrections, please notify me. Rony Wrote: >When was the Andheri BOF announced on this list? It wasn't announced. Why? I hope, the report answers this question. __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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Re: Vista's bad, GNU/Linux's good?
by Roshan 08 Oct '06

08 Oct '06

Dinesh Joshi, is specifying GNU/Linux users to be a friend of Linux distros and _not_ an enemy of Microsoft Windows. Otoh, those who are bashing Windows, say that because, places where Windows should *not* have been the OS on computer, it still is. Both are correct in their own ways. For people who have been using computers and been in this field for serveral years (from 1992 onwards), would say primarily target Microsoft Windows because, that year saw the rise of Windows 3.1. and the success followed, though Microsoft had worse legal battles in its early years. RMS's essays in those days too had bits and pieces of Microsoft's software products, as evident on the GNU's website. However, the list members may use a more generic term "Non-free Software", but again, it wouldn't actually mean that all non-free software is really bad (SUN?) __________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

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