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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 09:46, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote: > sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote: > >On Saturday 01 January 2005 10:51, Saswata Banerjee wrote: > >>you seem to have lost the context here. Manoj is not talking of > >>large businesses but small players without tech skill. > >>Pricing is decided by competition and you do not have luxary of > >>adding up all costs. The cost has to be minimise. > > > >U are trying to compete with robbery. where does the question of > You have again missed the basics and the point. > We talk of piracy. And we talk of helping a cyber cafe owner switch > to linux. To make him switch you talk of cost of MS software. But > he is getting the software free due to piracy. What alternate is > there ? I did not miss the point at all. If u accept that cafewalla's pirated software cost is zero and let him get away with that, then the only cost left is the downtime due to viruses and security issues. Security is not exactly a priority for cybercafes. So the service guy comes in at off peak hrs. (not sure if there is such a thing tho) and formats and reinstalls stuff on lets say 2 pcs - that's 1.5 hrs. And he does this on a regular basis. So a linux guy will now have to charge less than this. I am quite sure that the Linux guy has opportunity to make a lot more money than this. So the economics of ignoring piracy is a very bad thing for GNU/Linux > The bank HAS to buy the software and pay so he will be > willing to switch to linux to save cost. The cyber cafe has no such > compulsion because for him paying the hafta is a cheaper way out. I assure you hafta has great buoyancy and rises faster than a rocket. So it is a good (yeah the sickness is getting to me) thing. > He cannot pay for the software he needs ?? > because it will take his cost up which he cannot afford. H But u r offering him a very affordable alternative. Only thing is his customer does not care and neither does he since gyping billy boy is not in his equation. Security, reliability etc work when the owner is the enduser. This is true even for banks and other organisations. Go to the It dept. and they will give u a trillion reasons for the status quo. Go to the end user and things change dramatically. However even this has changed to point where the generalisation is not true. > > Think commercials. Nothing else will work. All other approaches > will only result in people wasting their valuable tme which can be > put to better use. Exactly. The cyber cafe seems to me a waste of time as a commercial propostion unless someone is willing to work at slave labour rates. Or add the cyber cafe revenue as opportunity bonus to an existing linux service catering to more up market clients by using the cybercafe as a training ground. The advocacy for cafewalas thingy by the lugs does not gel. It will be better addressed by (????????????????)

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Re: Device drivers
by santosh rao 06 Jan '05

06 Jan '05

> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Pankaj Dekate <whoispankaj(a)gmail.com> > To: hemendra jain <jain_hemendra123(a)rediffmail.com>, "GNU/Linux Users Group, Mumbai, India" <linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in> > Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:58:49 +0530 > Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] linux device driver program. > > > > In that regards,would like to form a team of enthusiasts who are interested in writing Linux Device Drivers. > > > what about newbies in linux device drivers?are they allowed? > > Pankaj hi pankaj, i agree with u pankaj, wht about newbis like us. like me for example. i also would like to try and learn as much more as possible about linux and kernel programmin. wht about us ? how can we be more involved in projects like this. and just for information, "writing device drivers" for which hardware ? -- "He who fights monsters should look to it that he himself does not become one." - Friedrich Nietzche regards santosh rao

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic now quite OT
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

On Tuesday 04 January 2005 15:09, Rony Bill wrote: > On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 11:06, sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote: > > Dear Jude, > > We are deviating from the original topic. This is, the ease of > installation and setup of M$ compared to Linux. We are not. The original topic was 1) is windows popular because it is easy / better / secure yak yak to use Ans. No windowss not easy, ( i still cant install my LICENSED win98 properly - it keeps crashing - and I do have the experience 24 yrs in the pc industry starting with z80 2 Mhz sbc, then the miracle - I assembled an 8088-4.77 that is 4770000 Hz 128KB ram with GW basic in 32k rom and 10MB hd, and a keyboard that would put a gladiator's shield to shame - sob jaane kahan gaye woh din. And the mouse came 4 months later without a driver i wrote an assembly lang driver hah ha) better, or even popular it is become so because of illegal bussiness practices. The long list of court cases shows why (but ofcourse u have to read and understand that link rather than click here and there randomly ) 2) Is it ok to use pirate software particularly by small bussinesses Ans. It is not and not just because u have a completely superior, orders of magnitude cheaper completely legal alternative. 3) Random points about providing service without ability to do so Ans. Dont do ANYTHING without ability particularly when u charge for the thing. 4) Stupid attempts to paper over piracy for personal gain Ans. Rebuttal of this and to show that the pirate needs no mercy at all. 5) Simplistic and totally wrong inference about kernel, distro, hardware, drivers, and applications. Ans: get informed before diving into the deep end. The rebuttal requires the reader have basic understanding of these issues. And finally why am i flogging this topic so much. Ans. because u and many others shifting from windows to GNU/linux just dont seem to understand the difference between fact and your version of it. Nor do you realise that u are doing nobody a favour in switching over to GNU/linux. And that lack of knowledge and skill can be easily corrected with only a little effort. And if u are doing bussiness the rules changed a few yrs ago. Amen

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

On Tuesday 04 January 2005 00:46, Rony Bill wrote: > On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:00, sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote: > > In short M$ is widely used not because it's easy but because of a > > whole history of piracy and illegal practices. And they did not > > make the pc popular. It was the low cost Taiwanese manufacturer > > who provided a platform for software like dos, wordstar, > > wordperfect, lotus123, gemplus, dbase, Turbo pascal, etc. And > > they existed BEFORE msdos and windows3.0. > > They have existed but it is windows that became a household name. Did u bother to read that link. If not here it is once again. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20041228040645419 Read it before u try to enter a debate. > Go to the various homes and small offices and ask them what is > windows and ask them the list of the above mentioned software. How > windows became popular, by begging, borrowing or stealing is > besides the point. That is the point. And the key argument on wether M$ became popular due to ease of use, innovative technology or plain old theving and skullduggery. > > I had faced a panic situation when I wiped out a client's partition > table in order to simply remove a partition virus. His tally, mail > and docs were in it. Luckily I recovered the files and saved my ass > and even got paid for it. I am not claiming that windows is the > best, I am only saying its the simplest to learn and get familiar > with. Give newbies linux to install, configure and use and do the > same experiment with windows. Newbies are not supposed to install and configure YOU are supposed to install and configure the system as per his requirements. > > Thats the whole issue Mr. Holmes. By the way my name is Jude Terrence D'souza (Terrence to most) > I don't need a REAL education in > computers and software to learn windows. Its simple to pick up and > easy to get around. I never went to any class to learn windows. That is why I said u need to educate yourself about computers and oses Windows is not an OS it is honey pot for worms and viruses. I would not ask my worst enemy to "educate" himself in windows. > > Egos and high pedestals will get us nowhere. But lack of knowledge and refusal to learn will get u somewhere - to the bottom of a very deep hole. > Programmers are very intelligent and smart and should be worshipped > as Gods. Like the > one for Amitabh Bachan, we can even build temples dedicated to > them. But we should not forget that the most endearing and popular > actors are those that became one with the masses, who felt the > pulse of the masses and gave the masses what they wanted. More nonsense. U place the real facts as they are. The masses will make a choice as opposed to hiding things and publishing ads on tv in Hindi about security of -oh-so-wormerful windows.Piracy has got nothing to do with civil disobdience. Since u are so woefully misinformed here is the difference. Piracy is when u take something which does not belong to you AND is explicitly prohibited by law AND u have an alternative for whatever it is u were pirating AND u hide the fact. Civil disobdience is protesting some law which takes away your right as given to you under the constitution AND u do so in the open AND u make it a point to inform the authorities about your protest. Now as a champion of piracy let's see u pirate a copy of windows at Churchgate (or Azad Maidan asumming u could get your other friendly pirates in sufficient numbers to participate), preceeded by a press release and letter to NASSCOM, M$, Cybercafe owners assoc., etc. That would qualify you in a few yrs time to be put on a pedestal. It also shows that u are all ready to greedily take what the FOSS community and programmer offers without wanting to acknowledge their contributions or making the slightest effort to learn and overcome your limited and incomplete understanding of computers, oses, and the history and politics behind the current state of affairs in the computing industry. I have only pity for the likes of u. When I started using FOSS I too was (almost) in the same boat as u but I took the effort and time to get my facts in place before offering opinions based on wrong information. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

//Your message to Linuxers awaits moderator approval From: linuxers-bounces(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in To: sherlock(a)vsnl.com Your mail to 'Linuxers' with the subject Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic now quite OT Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.// Moderator could u please release this to the list. The reason it is being held: Message body is too big: 9058 bytes with a limit of 7 KB On Wednesday 05 January 2005 18:56, Ashish Saboo wrote: Please do not cc me i am already on the list. > Terrence, > I for one certainly look forward for a " Real Education " & > this is the reason I am on this mailing list. Here I am > highlighting and not advocating the reason of why most opt for > Piracy. Great. > The Cyber cafe people are not alone in this piracy game > but over 70% of windows XP installation in India are not paid . Do > read this interesting article by Rishab Aiyer Ghosh > http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue8_12/ghosh/ > > While in USA it will cost a mere 0.19 times a common man's monthly > earning but in India it is 1.70 Months earning ! ie approx 9 times > costly . despite it The piracy rate is 25% in US v/s 70% in India. > Ever Wonder why 70% of people are ready to steal ? . > By taking the shortcut they may have ensured their survival but > have self restrained their progress. and when you seek redressal , > you need to obey the system, This one act has stopped many to be a > part of the main stream. The only way out for this is as you > suggest whack them well & the outcome is many are leaving this > opportunity . So what many more will see opportunity and come in with the right skills and without pirating. If any thing it will gett better for FOSS. > The ultimate loser may not be the small entrepreneur > but the whole IT Industry. How come??. More Foss users is going to improve the situation by retaining wealth within the area generating the service. > While a Home computer may at best > support 4 users. The Internet cafes offer the multiplier effect Yeah I am not disputing that > . FLOSS has its advantage , provided you > techies sieze the opportunity. Most already have. Welcome to the real world ;-). >. Let me know we have our wish list ready :) My mail addressing precisely this is in moderation due to size. Moderator could u please post it to the list rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic now quite OT
by Vickram Crishna 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

At 12:06 PM +0530 1/5/05, sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote: >On Tuesday 04 January 2005 15:09, Rony Bill wrote: >> On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 11:06, sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote: > >> >> Dear Jude, >> >> We are deviating from the original topic. This is, the ease of >> installation and setup of M$ compared to Linux. > >We are not. The original topic was >1) is windows popular because it is easy / better / secure yak >yak to use >Ans. No windowss not easy, Although the subject line has now been added to with three magic words (incl one acronym), I beg to differ: the original topic was the suggested use of the LUG physical meets to interface with others who have what I defined was a very real need. Yes, windows is not easy, but when you are pirating, then if one pirate copy does not work for whatever reason, then you get another that does. We all have a fairly clear idea of how this pirate stuff began, but that is water under the bridge now. Is the legal alternative a practical alternative, will it maintain or lower the total cost of doing business? >2) Is it ok to use pirate software particularly by small bussinesses >Ans. It is not and not just because u have a completely superior, >orders of magnitude cheaper completely legal alternative. And here you have an opportunity, with the small businessperson coming forward to you, asking for help to get out of this uncomfortable situation. >3) Random points about providing service without ability to do so >Ans. Dont do ANYTHING without ability particularly when u charge >for the thing. But who is charging? Does anyone here think that the local service levels for any flavours of GNU/Linux OSes is satisfactory? (I don't include so-called Enterprise systems, because that is not aimed at this target group in the first place). I am suggesting this as one step for creating another layer of small businesspeople, those who can add value to the small businesspeople set of entrepreneurs (without, as someone caustically suggested a couple of days back, becoming super-techies themselves). Surely some people on this list are confident enough of their skills? Does everyone need to rise up to their level, even when that is not their main thing in life? >) Stupid attempts to paper over piracy for personal gain >Ans. Rebuttal of this and to show that the pirate needs no mercy >at all. What do you call personal gain? There must be some very rich cybercafe owners out there, but we aren't talking about them. We are talking about small businesspeople. They don't make a lot of money, they don't have a lot of money. But they will pay some real money to minimise the real costs they have to bear for being in business. >5) Simplistic and totally wrong inference about kernel, distro, >hardware, drivers, and applications. >Ans: get informed before diving into the deep end. The rebuttal >requires the reader have basic understanding of these issues. > >And finally why am i flogging this topic so much. >Ans. because u and many others shifting from windows to GNU/linux >just dont seem to understand the difference between fact and your >version of it. Nor do you realise that u are doing nobody a favour >in switching over to GNU/linux. And that lack of knowledge and >skill can be easily corrected with only a little effort. And if u >are doing bussiness the rules changed a few yrs ago. I think some of you may have read Ashish Saboo's mail a few days back. I don't think that his attempt to pull together a coalition of small businesspeople needed such a supercilious set of responses. Either everyone on this list has got some good well-paying secure jobs, or you have all forgotten what it takes to run a business in India from scratch. Although the history of cybercafes is quite recent (I believe they just celebrated the decade anniversary of the first one, in London), there are quite a few people who think that this innovation is at least as powerful and potentially far more powerful than the PCO. I am one of them, as you may have guessed. I see absolutely no reason that a business based on fairly inexpensive consumer devices should require a PhD in computer science at the entry level - and given a working life of three to four years for the average small businessperson - certainly there is no reason for the vast majority of them to acquire such indepth tech knowledge - unless the fundas of the business are genuinely too complex. Goodbye ICT, in that case, but maybe none of you here are interested in what that is. It irks me no end to read about the ham-handed way our government (both state and central) goes about frequently changing the rules of the game for cybercafe owners (for all users of ICT actually, but the main bloc of commercial users are cybercafes). Against such inevitable and wayward externalities, one simple solution is for persons with a little more tech knowledge to band together to offer - for a fee, no-one is suggesting anything else. What will the fees be, who will charge them, what is the service offering - are you waiting for NASSCOM or IMC or the Mumbai Police to define this for you, or are you willing to come together and work with a group of these small businesspeople - for all you know, some are your neighbours - and work this out for yourself? If not at a LUG, maybe this isn't the best time and place, then the alternative already suggested is CDAC at Nariman Point, on a suitable day. And if this list isn't a suitable place to discuss the real world, then perhaps anyone who does volunteer a little time and effort to kick this off can put together a different list where the right solution can emerge. -- Vickram

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Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] linux device driver program.
by hemendra jain 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

>On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote : >But that still does not answer the quuestion a full fledged device driver for what?? >As the name suggests a device driver has to drive a device like >a jtag driver for in circuit emulation and debugging >usb modem driver for nokiaxyz phone >driver for mytimetravelcard No specific device. Anybody whose got knowledge in any specific device driver would be fine. The main motive is to understand the internal intracacies which are common to a lot of device drivers. >If u have a particular device in mind ppl can check the hardware resources available and join in. In this case, I think the person who's got exp. in this domain would be in a good position to suggest the hardware and related things. Rgds, Hemendra Jain On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote : >On Wednesday 05 January 2005 09:45, hemendra jain wrote: > > Yes Raseel, you are right. A full-fledged device driver is what I > > meant. I think people who are experienced/inexperienced can join in > > so that it is helpful for everyone. > >But that still does not answer the quuestion a full fledged device driver for what?? >As the name suggests a device driver has to drive a device like >a jtag driver for in circuit emulation and debugging >usb modem driver for nokiaxyz phone >driver for mytimetravelcard > >If u have a particular device in mind ppl can check the hardware resources available and join in. > >And mailing to the list is good enough. No need to cc anyone unless specifically requested. > >rgds >jtd > > > >-- >http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers

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Looking back at 2004.
by Amish Munshi 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

Hello All, Source : http://arstechnica.com/columns/linux/linux-20050102.ars/2 Development application of the year We judged ease of use, documentation, maturity of tools, and ease of deployment. Those magical programs facilitate the creativity flow from the hands of the programmers. A good development application or framework allows someone with an idea and some know-how to do his part to change how people interact with their data. *Winner*: Mono <http://www.go-mono.com> The Mono Project develops a common language runtime environment and development tools that aim to conform with Microsoft's .NET framework. The pace of Mono's development and maturation as a platform has been very rapid and has encouraged the creation of a plethora of tools and applications targeting the Mono runtime and built with the Mono development toolset. It has made the language C# increasingly popular for rapid application development <http://arstechnica.com/columns/linux/linux-20040715.ars> on Linux. Additionally, development tools such as MonoDevelop <http://arstechnica.com/columns/linux/linux-20040805.ars/1> have been written and continue to improve rapidly to provide the closest thing to an ideal RAD environment for Linux. Most improved in the community Sometimes it doesn't matter what you brought to the game to start with. There is always room for improvement and occasionally a group manages to pull together in such a significant way to make you completely forgive or at least forget any previous awfulness. *Winner*: Novell <http://www.novell.com> Novell has long been a fixture in the IT community, but this year they managed to dive headfirst into the Linux field and produced a lot of excitement. From their acquisition of SuSE, their managing of the Ximian project, and continued development on projects like iFolder, Novell has really turned on the awesome, and we look forward to seeing their continued progress in the year to come. Oh, and iFolder. Did I mention iFolder? iFolder. Amish.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] linux device driver program.
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 09:45, hemendra jain wrote: > Yes Raseel, you are right. A full-fledged device driver is what I > meant. I think people who are experienced/inexperienced can join in > so that it is helpful for everyone. But that still does not answer the quuestion a full fledged device driver for what?? As the name suggests a device driver has to drive a device like a jtag driver for in circuit emulation and debugging usb modem driver for nokiaxyz phone driver for mytimetravelcard If u have a particular device in mind ppl can check the hardware resources available and join in. And mailing to the list is good enough. No need to cc anyone unless specifically requested. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

On Saturday 01 January 2005 10:51, Saswata Banerjee wrote: > you seem to have lost the context here. Manoj is not talking of > large businesses but small players without tech skill. > Pricing is decided by competition and you do not have luxary of > adding up all costs. The cost has to be minimise. U are trying to compete with robbery. where does the question of size come into this. If the cafewalla (or a bank) could get away with it he would chain u to his office and make u work for free as his serf. The point here is that if someone decides that the risk in doing something illegal / immoral / unethical is low enough they will do it. So beat him with the legal stick. When that hurts he will look at alternates. Now GNU & friends can compete. This is exactly the position that M$ (and many other businesses) is in - working a broken system by shifting costs to the rest of society. This also (IMHO) is the difference between opensource and free software. Opensource more or less accepts the current broken state of affairs in society.GNU realises that the system is broken and needs to be fixed. Practical issues come later fixing the system comes first. > > Nor does it make sense to tell them that they cannot do business > without skills. They are doing it and making adequate profits. U dont. U walk away and let the havaldar do his bit. The bottomline will correct itself and if the guy can add he will compare your quote with M$ and figure it out. rgds jtd

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(INFO) Link to ebooks on php , mysql, etc..
by lawrence_d＠sifycorp.com 05 Jan '05

05 Jan '05

Hi, Cud be useful to some ppl .... http://www.computer-tutorials.org/ebooks.html

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linux device driver program.
by hemendra jain 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

Hi All, This is Hemendra. I am writing for the first time. I have a bit of knowledge in writing Linux Device Drivers. Would like to expand this area. In that regards,would like to form a team of enthusiasts who are interested in writing Linux Device Drivers. Thanx Hemendra Jain

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Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] linux device driver program.
by Raseel Bhagat 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

Hey sherlock, I think you misinterpreted, what Mr.Jain has to say. I think he, like myself wants to write a full-fledged device driver in linux. Not the amateurish "Hello World" LKMs or a pseudo-device driver as is explained in the Rubini and Corbet. He, I assume, like myself, wants to undertake a full-fledged device driver project(for just about anything), so that he gets a hands-on experience in writing drivers for actual, real-world devices. I hope I am right Hemendra !!! Btw, I am ready to be a part of the team,as although I myself have good-enough knowldege of Linux internals and Device drivers, I have never actually written a driver for anything and as such would very much like to. Thanking You, Raseel Bhagat On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 sherlock(a)vsnl.com wrote : >On Tuesday 04 January 2005 11:36, hemendra jain wrote: > > Hi All, > > This is Hemendra. I am writing for the first time. > > I have a bit of knowledge in writing Linux Device Drivers. Would > > like to expand this area. > > > > In that regards,would like to form a team of enthusiasts who are > > interested in writing Linux Device Drivers. > >device drivers for what ? > > > >-- >http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers Raseel Bhagat

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] linux device driver program.
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

On Tuesday 04 January 2005 11:36, hemendra jain wrote: > Hi All, > This is Hemendra. I am writing for the first time. > I have a bit of knowledge in writing Linux Device Drivers. Would > like to expand this area. > > In that regards,would like to form a team of enthusiasts who are > interested in writing Linux Device Drivers. device drivers for what ?

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] debian sarge mirror/iso's
by Kartik Mistry 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

-- Guntupalli Karunakar <karunakar(a)freedomink.org> wrote: >THough i have the PCQuest Debian DVD, not sure if it has Gnome 2.8 & >kde 3.3 . Hi, It has Gnome 2.6 !! and unstable ! --Kartik Kartik Mistry +91-22-28990490,28990507 _____________________________________________________________ LinuxTimes.Net --> Open Source to everyone.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] can FOSS grow food [was new year resolution]
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

On Tuesday 04 January 2005 11:13, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Monday 03 January 2005 06:22 pm, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > > > > In a country where drinking water and food are still major > > > > issues, contributing to free software is least of the > > > > troubles. > > education, mapping resources, crop planning, watershed management, > eliminating middle men in marketing, bringing transparency to > administration, knowledge base development, sharing experiences > over rural areas, disaster management - just a few areas, this and > many more can be done efficiently and at low cost by FOSS - no, > maybe you cant grow food on computers and write programs to make > drinking water come out of floppy drives - but you can grow more > food, distribute it more efficiently, tap more water sources, > conserve the existings ones with FOSS. Remember knowledge is power > and FOSS has immense potential to disseminate knowledge among the > rural people Well said. In fact the key to governance is open flow of information. This aspect is anthema to all organisation with hidden agendas, be it government, public or private. Poverty exist not because of lack of resources but because of bad distribution mainly caused by restricitions on free flow of capital and people. The moment u have someone controlling capital not belonging to him u have the the framework for corruption and wheeling dealing. Add restrictions on information flow in the name of national security - you cant photograph the dirty decrepit rly station - and u have the making of a Soviet style concentration camp country with grandiose monuments and speeches and other rubbish - N. Korea, Burma even India of the Indira days are examples. rgds jtd

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CISSP training intstitute in Mumbai
by Hitesh Prajapati 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

Hello Friends, I am seeking for CISSP training institute.[Mumbai, Pune,Bang] Please let me know if any one know good institue. Thank you, Hitesh __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] new year resolution
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

On Monday 03 January 2005 18:00, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 16:54:01 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves > > <lawgon(a)thenilgiris.com> wrote: > > On Monday 03 January 2005 04:19 pm, you wrote: > > i think that the key word is 'self-taught'. ppl who have taught > > themselves are more likely to contribute - but the majority of > Programmers can collaborate with people from other professions and > write software for them. It is a well established fact that FOSS > does not work well in most niche areas unless some experts from > that field write software for themselves or collaborate with > programmers. > examples include complex software for astronomy, medical imaging, > software that controls particle accelators, biomechanics etc. There are ample areas where FOSS contributes in niche markets. In fact that is exactly where the BIG opportunity lies. U have all the tools and building blocks in place to build a killer app. Morover the apps indicated above are used by organisations with plenty of moolah (very often taxpayers money). U will require the expert though. That is where contacts come in. Also in a natgeo programme related to astro physics I clearly remember that the scientist's pc had a gnome desktop on which he displayed various stuff. So astronomy apps are available on GNU/Linux. > > > since this segment typically uses pirated M$, they are not > > dissatisfied enough to look for an alternative as happens abroad. Are u referring to the scientific community in India?. Most are Government funded and NASSCOM would have already paid a courtesy visit. If they havent it's your opportunity staring at u. Novell / RH are u tuned in here. > FOSS doesn't offer many alternatives for "niche areas". FOSS > thrives when there is a huge userbase and active people giving > feedback. FOSS stutters where there is a small and very specialised > userbase. There are notable exceptions to this though. Most projects start with a small dedicated user and programmer base. Very often the initial code is horrible and the design worse. But it starts to solve a needling problem. By the time it is even partly ready pogrammers from other foss projects (pieces of which are being used in the new project ) start giving useful inputs and recieving new insights. These projects are barely known outside their community. Eg. BBC's (yes The BBC) DIRAC video codec which has far greater potential than the current media hyped MPEG4. Or Xorp which promises to better CISCO's ios. Or linuxbios which can ..... and rule the world. If the project solves a problem it does not stutter. rgds jtd

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

On Saturday 01 January 2005 21:44, Rony Bill wrote: > > If linux is to be made more popular and user friendly, it will have > to reach out to the people and not vice versa. It was the > simplicity and ease of use of Windows that made computers popular > in India You need to read before u post. Read here http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20041228040645419 for starters. In short M$ is widely used not because it's easy but because of a whole history of piracy and illegal practices. And they did not make the pc popular. It was the low cost Taiwanese manufacturer who provided a platform for software like dos, wordstar, wordperfect, lotus123, gemplus, dbase, Turbo pascal, etc. And they existed BEFORE msdos and windows3.0. > and Asia and most programmers including linux ones have > their foundations in Windows. Before we learn about higher level > languages and programming, we first learn to start and shut down > windows and to hold a mouse. Then we find out about other OSs and > begin to curse Windows. How many of you learnt their first use of > computers without Windows or DOS ? Go get a REAL education in computers and software (u really need it). And u curse windows because it converts simple reasonable folks into homicidal maniacs (That is true I almost got whacked many yrs ago when CIH virus wiped out a clients FAT table - his "do number" recievables were on the disk). > > Linux does not have a unity of platform and this is a major > setback, that makes its different distros doing different things -- snip all the baloney-- As i said earlier Go get a REAL education in computers and software u really really need it. rgds jtd

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Fwd: GNU Hurd K8 CDs etc
by Anurag 04 Jan '05

04 Jan '05

[In case if someone is interested in GNU Hurd, its K8 CDs have been uploaded. this release supports partitions bigger than 2GB size -- Anurag] -- ----------------------------------------------- __ __ gnu /noo/ n. Ox like antelope; (abbr.) /gnoo/ n. (recursive acronym) Gnu's Not Unix. ----- Original message ----- From: "Philip Charles" <philipc(a)copyleft.co.nz> To: "debian-hurd mailing list" <debian-hurd(a)lists.debian.org> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:48:38 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: K8 CDs etc I know it is a bad time of the year, but the K8 CD iso's are being uploaded to gnuab.org at the moment. The first image 70% on its way. All four should have been uploaded in about 40 hours. 16 KB/s upload Ahhg... The tarball and mini-iso have already been uploaded. I hope that Guillem Jover is not on holiday. The DVD just completed its testing an hour or so ago, it is too big to upload and will have to be posted. Main features. The 2GB partition limit has gone. The tests were made on a 20 GB partition. The 2+ years old mkfs in the GNU/Linux installation system creates the filesystem on the large partitions nicely. This means that the Linux installer has not had to be modified and so remains at "K". nano is broken and so nano-tiny has replaced it in baseGNU and the tarball, so remember the "-tiny" bit when invoking the editor. The GNU archive overflows the DVD by about 300MB. There are eight CD images, but as usual only the first four are being made available. The K8 disc set at least matches the quality of the K7 set which IMO was the best I had produced to date. The quality of a disc set is largely determined by the quality of the packages and the overall state of the official Debian and gnuab archives. As usual, comments and suggestions are welcome. Phil. -- Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand +64 3 488 2818 Fax +64 3 488 2875 Mobile 025 267 9420 philipc(a)copyleft.co.nz - preferred. philipc(a)debian.org I sell GNU/Linux & GNU/Hurd CDs & DVDs. See http://www.copyleft.co.nz

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Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Meeting - Jan 9 - suggested topic
by Ashish Saboo 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

Hello all ! I just joined in the mailing list. my keenness in understanding technology brought me into cyber cafe operations for a while. Currently I am offering my bit in representing the small independnet Cyber cafe operators. If members permit me I would like to present the cyber Cafe model . Its been a unique to all third world country where low income levle / low literacy but sharp entrepreneurial instinct blosomed the commercial telecentres in less thna 6 years made them as common sight as that of a barber shop or a cobbler. Our estimates put over 30% of netizens in less developed countries depend on cafes for net access as a shared / pay per usage model & for the many waiting to embarace the Internet, they act as cradle to digital society. I have read the numerous responses to vickram's post & felt like there is a a gap in understanding some of our friends carry here & what cyber cafe operators feel . Before I am permited to go in detail , I offer a few points / clarification in the hope it offers some insight to the FLOSS entrpreneurs #> for many like me the reason to be in a cyber cafe business is because they are clueless to hat technology offer an opportunity & its the best way to acquaint the tricks, few maintain the status quo beyond 3 years at best & they hop to better allied business. like hardware/ data processing/ web development / training. We estimate there are less than 25% stand alone cyber Cafes. ie offer on net access. #> What interest a cafe operator or any business man is a solution , which ever technology gets them is fine. #> Most of us did not have a complete & visible choice - I can buy the license copy of OS & Office but then what about other add on softwares which has made it a must for operating a Public access computer ? The cost of logging & a content filter software avaialble costs equal to 3 months gross revenue above all the economics of operating a browsing centre would go for a toss. #> I did see some of the proxy servers and other black boxes from Linux and they actually frightened me - little support / little awareness. So given a choice if I am forced to be at mercy to some big daddy , why not the biggest or accesible one. & worst the different versions of os confused a hell out of me , where each one had to be compromised on. #> Contarary to the view a business man is ready to pay a decent amount and be within the ambit of law then nothing. here the choice has beet the devil & the deep sea. MS is too costly which make a mass civil disobedience widely acknowledged. & the Linux variants with The free tag actually puts a brake - What matter more is sales & support and add on developers network. Owning a unlicensed copy may let him operate his business profitably but deep within he is afraid to be haunted and hence most of them choose to stay annonymous . which has been detrimental in getting better work opportunities. we are talking of e-governance / digital network etc. & BTW most of the cafe operators are whacked by the moral police & content piracy watch dogs. tHe Cafe owner knows his guilt and silently pays off . or walks out of the business unfortunaltey need for ubiquity of commmuting do not make great headlines so who cares , maybe until its too late. A fairly priced and a broadbase support will actually open new market vistas both for consumer & developers. I think there are many issues which you have raised & I cannot answer them all in a single mail . If permitted , I would love to meet you and share our views. and have some real education too. Warm wishes for a bright 2005 !! Ashish Saboo President Association of Public Internet Access Provider (ApiAp) The voice of independent Cyber cafe operators URL: http://www.apiap.cybernook.net Blog: http://apiap.blogspot.com

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Multiple default routes!
by Ashok Iyer 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

Hi, I am using a RH 9.0 host. I know that multiple 'default' routes do not make sense. But still I can add multiple default routes via 'route add default gw <ip-address> command. Is this some feature that I do not understand? I guess that the behaviour will be as follows if I have 'two default routes'. If the first default gateway is reachable, the packets will be routed through that gateway. If it is unreachable, the packets will be routed through the other gateway. This may be totally incorrect, but I really cannot think of any other possibility. Regards, Ashok http://www.patni.com World-Wide Partnerships. World-Class Solutions. _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message may contain proprietary, confidential or legally privileged information for the sole use of the person or entity to whom this message was originally addressed. Any review, e-transmission dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error kindly delete this e-mail from your records. If it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without proper authority, please notify us immediately at netadmin(a)patni.com and delete this mail. _____________________________________________________________________

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RE: [ILUG-BOM] Multiple default routes!
by Ashok Iyer 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

> Actually, its a perfectly legal situation. But software like route AFAIK > does'nt allow you to set multiple routes. > You can use iproute command to do that. > You can give routing priorities also etc. > HTH > Supreet Ashok Iyer wrote: >Hi, > >I am using a RH 9.0 host. >I know that multiple 'default' routes do not make sense. But still >I can add multiple default routes via 'route add default gw <ip-address> >command. Is this some feature that I do not understand? > >I guess that the behaviour will be as follows if I have 'two default >routes'. If the first default gateway is reachable, the packets will >be routed through that gateway. If it is unreachable, the packets will >be routed through the other gateway. > >This may be totally incorrect, but I really cannot think of any other >possibility. > > >Regards, >Ashok 'route ' does allow to set multiple default gateways. For e.g. route add default gw x.x.x.x and then route add default gw y.y.y.y This is where I am confused. Since this facility is provided, what is it useful for? I am facing a problem due to this, in that I am unable to ping out of my subnet when the DHCP servers of the two subnets each assign a default gateway to my machine. So I have two default gateways. Regards, Ashok http://www.patni.com World-Wide Partnerships. World-Class Solutions. _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail message may contain proprietary, confidential or legally privileged information for the sole use of the person or entity to whom this message was originally addressed. Any review, e-transmission dissemination or other use of or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error kindly delete this e-mail from your records. If it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without proper authority, please notify us immediately at netadmin(a)patni.com and delete this mail. _____________________________________________________________________

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January 9, 2005 GLUG meet
by Venkatesh Hariharan 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

The January 9th GLUG meet will be held at Netcore's Parel office [1] at 3PM. The topic for this GLUG meet is Open Source Architecture and the speaker will be Satish Mohan of Red Hat. This GLUG meet will also see us giving a farewell to G Karunakar, the technical lead for the Indlinux.org project. Karunakar has played a tremendous role in resolving the technical issues around Indian language computing and his expertise has been sought by FLOSS localization groups in Nepal, Bhutan and other countries. We will sorely miss him and wish him the best for his future plans. Wish you all a happy 2005! Venky [1] Directions to Netcore (www.netcore.co.in) Office Address: Netcore Solutions Pvt. Ltd. 402, Peninsula Chambers, Ganpat Rao Kadam Marg, Lower Parel (West), Mumbai 400 013. India. Tel: +91 (22) 5662 8000 Directions to reach our office: The nearest train stations are Lower Parel (Western Line, about 10 mins walk) and Currey Road (Central Line, about 20 mins walk). If you are coming from Mahalaxmi Station, take Senapati Bapat Marg (Tulsi Pipe Road), you will pass Phoenix Mills on the left. Do not take the flyover. Keep going staight next to the flyover (below), and at the 4-way intersection (there is a traffic light), make a left, and then an immediate right into Peninsula Corporate Park. In the complex (you will see two buildings under construction), come to Peninsula Chambers, a 6-storeyed glass building with a cell tower on the top. We are on the 4th floor. >From Worli Naka, make a left onto Ganpat Rao Kadam Marg, go past Shriram Mills. We are ahead of A-Z Industrial estate towards the intersection with Senapati Bapat Marg (Tulsi Pipe Road). You will see an entrance on the left for Peninsula Corporate Park. In the complex (you will see two buildings under construction), come to Peninsula Chambers, a 6-storeyed glass building with a cell tower on the top. We are on the 4th floor. >From Dadar (Western railway) station side, if you are coming on Senapati Bapat Marg (Tulsi Pipe Road), don't take the flyover which starts at Kamala Mills. Go below it, and make a right at the next junction. This is Ganpat Rao Kadam Marg. Make a right into Peninsula Corporate Park. In the complex (you will see two buildings under construction), come to Peninsula Chambers, a 6-storeyed glass building with a cell tower on the top. We are on the 4th floor. Our building is right next to Orange and behind Piramal/Wellspring Hospital. We are in the same building as Airtel, JWT, Mindshare, Amarchand Mangaldas, Kotak Mahindra Insurance and ICICI OneSource. Parking is available in the basement - the first level has 10 parking slots for Netcore (numbers 1-10). -0-

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Re: Personal Diary software for Linux
by VC Bothra 03 Jan '05

03 Jan '05

I'll recommend a blogging tool for maintaining a diary / personal log. Wordpress is a PHP / MySQL blogging tool having a vibrant community and large installed base. Its licensed under GPL. http://www.wordpress.org/ Veer. http://www.blogstreet.com/ Blog Profile, RSS Ecosystem, Blog Tops, Search and Directory

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