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[OT] Important do read it !! Some kinda virus or prank
by Mitul Limbani 26 Apr '02

26 Apr '02

Hey guys, i have been recieving mails which has a size of some 127K or 250K and the whole mail with header just looks like this ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return-Path: <frank(a)giasbm01.vsnl.net.in> Delivered-To: mitul(a)mitul.com Received: (qmail 15675 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2002 11:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO www.com) (202.149.217.214) by ns7.nttindia.com with SMTP; 25 Apr 2002 11:43:04 -0000 Received: from Dvcrcvqib ([192.168.1.242]) by www.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:08:58 +0530 From: prakash <prakash(a)freeos.com> To: mitul(a)mitul.com Subject: Worm Klez.E immunity Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Fi6021GV119p61iJ Return-Path: frank(a)giasbm01.vsnl.net.in Message-Id: <SERVER2000tox7nyeKz00000106(a)www.com> X-Originalarrivaltime: 25 Apr 2002 11:38:58.0498 (UTC) FILETIME=[C9C6F220:01C1EC4D] Date: 25 Apr 2002 17:08:58 +0530 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess some guy who has an email frank(a)giasbm01.vsnl.net.in has spread some kinda email virus which goes on sending mails to all ppl in the address book....dont know if it attacks on pine or windoze i m on webmail so dont know the remote sender client... but pls be beware of such mails and do delete off i guess u should better clean up your systems too to see wat is going on ... Best Regards, -Mitul Limbani (mitul 2 mitul.com)

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sendmail log analyzer
by Hiten Desai 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

Hi! I would like to know about sendmail log analyzer which can check unused accounts on rh 6.2 or any other scripts with which one can find of unused email accounts for certain fixed time Regards Hiten. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/

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Router config page and linux
by Satya 25 Apr '02

25 Apr '02

So there's a router separating the private network from the internet. I've got a Linux box (gort) and a Windows box (wintermutex) and others (all Windows, none important) on the private network. The router's a Linksys BEFSR81 (I think that's the model number) (8 port). It has a web-based password protected only-from-the-inside configuration. All the Windows boxes, including wintermutex, can access this page. Trying to get there from gort doesn't work -- it's like the port is closed. nmap says the port *is* closed. telnet router 80 yields an unable to connect. *Everything* else works as it should. What could be wrong? -- Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/> My other sig is a 4000 line perl program.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux
by Dinesh Shah 24 Apr '02

24 Apr '02

Hi, Here is the White paper http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html Why Open Source Software / Free Software (OSS/FS)? Look at the Numbers! By David A. Wheeler dwheeler(a)dwheeler.com Revised as of April 16, 2002 This paper provides quantitative data that, in many cases, using open source software / free software is a reasonable or even superior approach to using their proprietary competition according to various measures. This paper examines market share, reliability, performance, scaleability, security, and total cost of ownership. It also has sections on non-quantitative issues, unnecessary fears, and other sites providing related information, and ends with some conclusions. -- --Dinesh Shah :-) Shah Micro System dinesh(a)indiamail.com http://dineshah.tripod.com Mobile: 98213-11906

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Off-topic Ph.D in Science Education
by Nagarjuna G. 23 Apr '02

23 Apr '02

I am posting this here, with the hope some of you may be interested in working for Ph.D in Knowledge Organization and Science Education (Using AI for science education). http://www.hbcse.tifr.res.in/main/PhD/phdadmn Nagarjuna

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What is a Memory Barrier
by Shirish Chandra Pal 22 Apr '02

22 Apr '02

Hi, Can anybody explain what is a memory barrier? I was scanning through some of the sample code of module implementation. In many places author has called a macro 'mb()'. Without any detail comments author has said 'a memeory barrier is required...'. I found that mb is defined as 'do{;} while(0)' ----- Shirish(a)antara.net

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux
by Tahir Hashmi 21 Apr '02

21 Apr '02

On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:41:09 aaaaarrrgghhh wrote: >If i'm a company like Infosys/SAP, then I'm designing software to make >companies more productive.. There's a catch here - you've got to distinguish between products and services. A Word Processor is a software that can be used by n number of people without any changes done to the underlying source. OTOH, what Infosys/SAP would do is develop systems that apply to one specific customer and using the same techniques in another environment would again involve a lot of analysis and what-have-you for deployment. There are two pieces to this solution now - the Concept and the Software. You can't keep the Concept under wraps. The SEs at the client location have to know how your system works. The Software may be closed source but it won't make much of a difference if another party lifted your Software and Concept and tried to deploy it at another location because the analysis will have to be redone, the implementation will have to be redesigned to fit the other client and the software itself will have to be tweaked. Infosys charges according to man-hours spent on a project. Anyone who has been thru a complete development cycle knows that analysis, design, maintenance and support take far more man-hours than coding. So if I'm a Free Software counterpart of Infosys, I still earn a lot for my man-hours in other aspects. Where products are concerned, I follow the concept of one contributor to Free Software (regretfully, I forgot his name) - it makes a lot of economic sense to me if I give one app away in exchange of an entire OS and so many more apps for free. Perhaps, now you'd understand Philip's concept of "Cost per User". --- Tahir Hashmi (VSE, NCST) http://www.ncst.ernet.in/~tahir tahir AT ncst DOT ernet DOT in __________________________________ We, the rest of humanity, wish GNU luck and Godspeed See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_02020…

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US Dept of Energy to run Linux
by |= n I y A N T =| 21 Apr '02

21 Apr '02

hi, here's a relevant news-story ... since vr having this thread about govt promoting / adopting linux ... ppl involved in this initiative might find it useful ... ny ============================================= The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) has ordered a $24.5 million supercomputer running the Linux operating system for its facility in Richland, Washington, it announced Tuesday. http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/industry/04/18/doe.linux.idg/index.html

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Qmail books
by Amol Hatwar 21 Apr '02

21 Apr '02

On Sat, 20 Apr 2002 Shankar Ramchandran wrote : >Dear all > >I need to set up an email server for my network. I would like to >know if >there are any good books that will explain installation, >configuration, and >tuning of qmail that you may recommend. Why not search amazon.com? :P _________________________________________________________ Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or Abroad http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs

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Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Problem with Cookies support
by Amol Hatwar 21 Apr '02

21 Apr '02

On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 Trevor Warren wrote : > >--- Amol Hatwar <amolhatwar(a)rediffmail.com> wrote: > > And as far as I know cookies have > > always been a > > problem when using proxies. >[snip] > my dear pal... > not necessarily.....usin transparent >proxyin...MASQ....SQUID....is the best soln. My own [snip :) ] I thought I was replying in apache's context :D. Amol Hatwar. _________________________________________________________ Click below to visit monsterindia.com and review jobs in India or Abroad http://monsterindia.rediff.com/jobs

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Promoting Linux
by Keyur Shroff 20 Apr '02

20 Apr '02

Hi Friends, A good news is that our central government is also taking deep interest in promoting Linux in all area. Government wants various agencies to give some feedback on the information related to Linux. They have sent a draft to NCST also. I think this mailing list is the best place where I can post the questions and get answers so that I can forward the information to our government. Please give as much input as you can. I am directing the revised information/feedback format on "Linux India Initiatives" for your kind consideration and input. The format is as follows : "Linux India Initiatives" Information may kindly be furnised under the following heads : 1. Linux - The need; 2. Demand profile segments - such as Home, Education, Research, Govt, Defence, Business, Embedded systems etc. 3. Present scenario (International) vs competing products 4. Issues to resolve : (i) Indian Language Support (ii) Security (iii) Awareness/education (iv) Certification (v) Standardisation (vi) Service Model vs product model (vii) Identification of minimal set of application 5. Transition strategy - Unix to Linux, legacy port 6. Consortium for linux based collaborative Development? The Li18nux, OSDL, LSB...? 7. Action Plan Kindly send your views/comments as soon as possible. Thanks, Keyur

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Problem with Cookies support
by Amol Hatwar 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

>Hi, Yea hi ><VirtualHost 192.9.200.203> > >ServerName 192.9.200.203 > >RewriteEngine On > ..... Ok you are using Apache as a proxy >Now the problem here is this particular website has made cookies >support manditory and this has created a lot of problem because >every time the user connect and a cookies is sent to this user >the cookies is sent with company.com. Since the cookies doesnt >get registered every hit of his to this website keeps sending him >new cookies. OK... You should try reading the docs that come with the software fisrt. You'll get all your answers in the apache documentation for the proxy module. And as far as I know cookies have always been a problem when using proxies. Regards, Amol Hatwar.

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Its all in the head!
by Amol Hatwar 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

Hi, I have been following the pieces on convincing the Govt. to use GNU/Linux very closely. First, the factor of spending US$ is a logical one. Second, use GNU/Linux for most of my work and the learning curve has been steep-but I enjoy it. Ideally the Govt. should use GNU/Linux. But I wonder if the point just ends there. Leave training the babus apart, someone or some pressure has to be put for learning things. Who'll do this? Perhaps we could make a easier to use interface for the babus to use. But many people still doubt the capabilities of loosely connected programmers using the Net to develop real life programs. Linux itself has been through this stage. Its my general observation that many people who do use Linux and related technologies in the ring mainly do so because of the sense of adventure of trying something out thats cheaper, powerful, open and scaleable. Also there is a huge amount of self-motivation involved. On the other hand people generally get attracted to Windoze because of the eye-candy. They say it's more productive. Still, I see people around me in offices and big firms with a Compaq or an MNC brand desktop catching dust (*Kya karu Amol seekhne ko time nahi milta*). I see training camps that are arranged for people to get on to the new electronic system-happy smiles during the lunch and after a day or two everyone snaps back to the old method of work, the lunch digested well. Sometimes its just the other way. Firms think their new software is rancid (*grrr... Amol I can't even enter a mobile number in it*). They go for a new system with guarantees of SLAs and a thousand pages of Requirement Specs and a dozen of prototypes are tested. The thing ships. Somehow people are just not enthusiastic about it anymore. They know deep inside that there's been a mistake somewhere but they refuse to accept it. They still get the work done somehow with a Chandu from the Software Devloper's on permanent deputation in the firm. I have seen most of the projects on Windoze come to this. So I think the issue is far from convincing here. It's more about motivation and taking interest. If we can make the babus feel motivated to make the decision, there will be no reason why they wouldn't make it. Of course, someone will have to make the applications for them probably without any of the above glitches and deliver it in time. Maybe making and supporting applications for a sum will be a place where the almost undoable babu-hunger can be satisfied in someway. I feel this area is a bit more sensitive. Probably because our Govt. can take the responsibilities and shove it on to other peoples backs. The Armed forces have suuferred a plenty because of the glitches higher up. But here, the babus themselves will have to use the things they pay and decide for. No matter what the platform-who will save the babus if they are not motivated? Amol Hatwar.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux.....let the babus use it 1st..;)
by Dinesh Shah 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

Hi, On Thu, 18 Apr 2002, Trevor Warren wrote: > can i suggest 1 thing pliss...;) > "A satisfied Customer is the BEST Advertising tool > any enterprise can hire...."...not tru in all cases > tho...;) > > Dude..letz get the babus to use it 1st and DEMO to > them that all their daily server/desktop needs can b > done using Free SOftware.....The industry behind the > services perspective will alwayz b there......ANd > believe me dude... And how do you plan to make them use any thing? > once the Govt sees that Support/Service is > available.....all the aprehensions will be drawn away. > So lets aske for a dept to start Gnu-linuxing ASAP. > The rest we can plan out.... Have you approached any department? > Trevor Warren With regards, -- --Dinesh Shah :-) Shah Micro System dinesh(a)indiamail.com http://dineshah.tripod.com Mobile: 98213-11906

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Problem with Cookies support
by volu gina 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

Hi, Every person in the my organisation does not have internet connectivity provided for them. To allow access to certain websites we have an apache configured which helps us do it. Here is one such configuration for accessing one particular website. When any user needs to access this website he keys his url as http://192.9.200.203 and accesses the website without even knowing that he is accessing the website on the internet since the url will always show up as http://192.9.200.203/xxxx. Below is the config for the same. <VirtualHost 192.9.200.203> ServerName 192.9.200.203 RewriteEngine On RewriteRule ^(.*) http://www.company.com$1 [P,L] ProxyPass / http://www.company.com/ ProxyPassReverse / http://www.company.com/ ProxyRemote http://www.company.com/ http://192.9.200.34:80 </VirtualHost> Now the problem here is this particular website has made cookies support manditory and this has created a lot of problem because every time the user connect and a cookies is sent to this user the cookies is sent with company.com. Since the cookies doesnt get registered every hit of his to this website keeps sending him new cookies. I cannot create a dummy dns entry like local.company.com instead of the ip address 192.9.200.203 because I do not have a local dns server put in place here. Any suggestions as to how can I enable .company.com cookies to work on such a setup. Thanks in Advance. Cheers, Volly. --------------------------------- Download Yahoo! Score Tracker for live cricket scores on your desktop

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[OT] VPN with two invalid IPs
by Amish Mehta 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

Hi, I want to connect my home and office computers(atleast share files, full TCP/IP would be best). But the problem is both computers have invalid IPs 172.16.x.x and I do not have control over gateways to setup VPN(one on in2 cable network, other on star cable network). I can keep both computers on 24 hrs, having access to internet via their local gateways. But I do not know how they will find each other. Currently I manually email and download files but is there a way I can actually FTP to and fro? Amish.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] networking problem
by Tahir Hashmi 19 Apr '02

19 Apr '02

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 23:00:15 ketan shah wrote: > >at one time only one program runs unless we use >multithreading.is there any command in linux which >will run both programs at same time > Run the server, it waits for the client to send requests. Run the client. Period. If your server requires the client to be started _simultaneously_ it's broken. Can you please be more specific about your problem to get more meaningful answers than this one? --- Tahir Hashmi (VSE, NCST) http://www.ncst.ernet.in/~tahir tahir AT ncst DOT ernet DOT in __________________________________ We, the rest of humanity, wish GNU luck and Godspeed See Dave Matthews Band live or win a signed guitar http://r.lycos.com/r/bmgfly_mail_dmb/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_02020…

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[commercial] RHCE course material
by Philip S Tellis 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

Does anyone have RHCE course material either soft copy or hard copy, and is willing to share it, please contact me off list.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux
by Dinesh Shah 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

Hi, Here are my thoughts on "what government should do to promote Free and Open Source softwares in India". The Government in most countries are BIG buyers in IT. Being a BIG buyers gives them the leverage vis-a-vis the dictating terms on the vendors. The Indian Government can use this leverage to boost Free and Open Source software by defining purchase policies of their needs. The Government purchases can be classified in to two categories - Defense and Non-Defense IT purchases. The Government can lay down following buying policy in their tendering procedures. Defense Purchases : The tenders for these purchases should ask for solutions rather then a specific product from a specific company. This will provide level playing field to all competing product or service vendors, whether Free/Open Source or Proprietary. The tenders for these purchases should accompany the source code for the products. This needs to be mandatory as it relates to defense and security of the product should be paramount in nature. The security can only be ascertained if the source code is available. Non-Defense Purchases : As with non-defense purchase, the tenders for purchase should ask for solutions rather then a specific product. This tender can have a voluntary clause for providing source code for the product. However, it should mandate that a product which accompanies source code will be preferred over non-availability of source code. If the above policy guide lines are followed as is or with required modifications it will lead to Get superior, robust, scalable and easy to use IT Solution Lower IT acquisition cost for the Government Efficient use of "scares" resources Enhanced SECURITY Possible savings in nett foreign exchange outflow More employment opportunities for the people as focus shifts from products to services. Providing "level playing field" to all vendors Reducing governance and leveraging purchase power of the Government Promotion of Free and Open Source software The same priority should be there for private sector as well. HTH With regards, -- --Dinesh Shah :-) Shah Micro System dinesh(a)indiamail.com http://dineshah.tripod.com Mobile: 98213-11906

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Promoting Linux : Govt and Education, Demo needed
by jitendra 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

I have been in touch with the Mah Government authorities and have found many takers for good ideas , particularly Linux since it is free. However , since I am new to the Linux community, I have not been able to gather the demo capability. I am trying thru a small setup in Powai. I am ready to arrange the demo , even use some BE grad students to work , if someone can help in the following or tell me how exactly to go about it What is urgently needed is 1> OS level : Tiny linux : apparently specifically designed to work on old (even 386) machines. Even if it works on P-I or similar there is good scope to convince schools and Govt to consider adopting. 2> Applications level : If only unicode/ISO standard based editors can be demonstrated with GUI . Similarly spreadsheets. 3> Content level: a> School Educational The government hs come out with a Teachers manual (about 50 pages) which I have a copy of , for the 9th and 10th standard IT course. The manual is shabby by all standards. But the content can be made far better if we adapt the content to Linux based stuff. It contains wordprocessor, Basic language and some smattering of 'internet'. It is in english. The alternative would be a CD based, multimedia rich and video-intensive Cd making teacher feel absolutelly comfortable. It need not be very polished or commercial quality video. b> Governance: some application that can help the rural folks to prepare village population data base and use the same for filling typical forms like birth-certificate, death certificate,request for land-records like 7/12 extract etc. There are about 94 forms that the govt would be keen that people give electronically. Dont presume everyone in the authority will be warm to such happenings. But it is feasible. c> Watershed and mapping: There is a great need for a small-time GIS facilty. We know how severe the water shortage is. At the same time it is known that only 4% of land consumes 70% of irrigation facilities created by dams. Half of nations dams are in maharashtra. The limit is someone (PK Patil ) has the temerity to suggest using sugarcane for cars as alcohol hich will cause further skew use of water and greater shortage of drinking water and thus a greater driving of resources from rural folks to urban folks.The facts , if on maps can be so stunning that such arguments will not be advanced. For that map-making must reach every school and every desktop. Can we localise GRASS or MyWorld(from Northwestern University) . It is only sad that institutions like IITs which have built a lot of software on Public money are unwilling to make their software 'freely' available . I hope some people will respond to this. I have simultaneously taken up a localisation project . It is an humble beginning. ( Refer Loksatta -Arthvrittant of 18 and 25 March for more details) Watch the site sourceforge.net/projects/gnuindia Jitendra

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FUD Against Proprietary software
by abhijeet 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

Hi, This is in light of the current discussion to promote Gnu/Linux/Free Software in India. Microsoft uses the FUD..The Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt propoganda to suppress any form of free software. What we could do here is to spread FUD about illegally using proprietary software. How? Many users don't even know that they are doing something seriously illegal when they use proprietary software without a license. They need to be educated about this, maybe by setting up a few examples. When that happens I believe that users would think twice before choosing software that they are expected to pay for. And suddenly free software would be *the thing*. People knowing about it would be in demand. My point is that by enforcing license rules more stringently (which can be done at the government level) free software would have a lot to gain and we as people using free software should back people trying to enforce license policing. Not only that, I believe we should encourage(help?) them. This way there would be Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt in the mind of a prospective(illegal) user of proprietary software and we will have used M$'s stategy against them in the interest of our community. What say guys? Do you see the point? Though this may sound rather inflammatory, I believe it is important and the time has come that we take a step of the sort. We can make a start, by lets say not co-operating with people using proprietary software. We can talk about making a legal choice and asking people to either pay for a licensed copy of proprietary software or using free software (which would be legal). What that means is that if you own a copy of , lets say M$ Windoze, refuse to share it. And ofcourse if you can, However, I haven't been able to put this point in a manner that would be more conducive to a body like the government and I'm expecting someone on this list will, though it is rather late. It is important that the government see it this way. We can only spread the FUD.The government can enforce it. I hope people on the list see my point ciao abhijeet

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Promoting Linux
by RNS 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

Hi group, Trevor good work , but as Keyur said , try not to defame MS ( though they deserve to ) , remember who your audience are ( Somewhere u mentioned M$crosoft-please remove it). Moreover, few stuffs which ppl think makes win score over gnu-linux (atleast on thier desktop ) is user- friendlyness, though this hurdle has been tackled to large extend- ppl dont realize it. I think that has to b stressed more , along with linux strong points like security and upgradibility. Other stuffs seems to b fine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] invoking windows programs from linux server
by Amol Hatwar 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

>i have a situation where on a linux server i m running >a middleware system which is to invoke a COBOL >application on a windows 2000 server on the same >network. same network??? >how can i do it ? RMI ? or some listening application >needs to be installed on the win2K m/c that will >listen to linux servers request to run a program ? thats one possible way... but its too bad.. what language are u doing ur middle ware in? If you are using JAVA which I assume u must be using... try doing Native Methods and use a C wrapper for ur application... lengthy route... but you get a tight system. Regards, Rolla.

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Re: [ILUG-BOM] (no subject)
by Amol Hatwar 18 Apr '02

18 Apr '02

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002 SP wrote : >I am using 7.2 with XFS. >The GNOME login screen does not allow root login. >I need to login as any other user and then always "su" >to root. >Any help on this please. > >--SP I'd recommend 7.2 only on a P4... The problem is unuasual... I couldn't even replicate it.. :P. SP next time please give your mail a subject. Regards, Rolla.

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Promoting Linux In India
by Parimal B. Shah 17 Apr '02

17 Apr '02

I don't seem to fathom the fixation of comparing Desktops? To put it very simply Desktops are for personal users! In govt / educations / business uses the stress should be on purpose built applications. There is no need for fancy desktops! MS is a PERSONAL COMPUTER user (CONSUMER) oriented product. I have seen friends and colleagues buying upgrading their pcs just so that they can talk about it with your friends / colleagues who have just got it. Its like your wife demanding a fully loaded BMW to drop the child to the school just because your neighbour does it in her fully loaded MERC!! It the MO thing, MO GRAPHICS, MO MULTIMEDIA, MO MONEY ....... I bet 90% of the users don't use 90% of its features. Specially in case of India S/w for govt / education / etc it should be no - nonsense, no frills attached, lean and trim and think Linux fits the bill. Parimal Shah -----Original Message----- From: linuxers-admin(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in [mailto:linuxers-admin@mm.ilug-bom.org.in]On Behalf Of linuxers-request(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sent: 16 April 2002 07:31 To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: Linuxers digest, Vol 1 #451 - 10 msgs Send Linuxers mailing list submissions to linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to linuxers-request(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in You can reach the person managing the list at linuxers-admin(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Linuxers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Promoting Linux (Philip S Tellis) 2. qmail book (Girish Hanchate) 3. Re: Promoting Linux (nici bhatt) 4. Re: qmail book (ranjeet(a)nttindia.com) 5. Re: qmail book (Parag Mehta) 6. Promoting Linux (RNS) 7. Re: Promoting Linux (Keyur Shroff) 8. Promoting Linux (Darshan.Wakchaure(a)lntinfotech.com) 9. Re: Promoting Linux......a la carte (Trevor Warren) 10. Re: Promoting Linux (Philip S Tellis) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:07:28 +0530 (IST) From: Philip S Tellis <philip.tellis(a)iname.com> To: Linux Users <linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in> Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Keyur Shroff wrote: > "Linux India Initiatives" > > Information may kindly be furnised under the following heads : > 1. Linux - The need; > 2. Demand profile segments - such as Home, Education, Research, Govt, > Defence, Business, Embedded systems etc. India is a developing country, and as such, we should look to finding low cost solutions while not compromising on quality. While our software industry has been successful world-wide in providing solutions for business consumers, software as a product remains too costly within our own country. We must also realise that much of the software in use within our country comes from outside. This in turn translates to a large sum of Indian Rupees flowing into foreign companies. Most proprietary software comes with a licence agreement that restricts the redistribution of the software. Persons who do redistribute the software, in violation of the licence, are labelled as software pirates. While it is accpeted that software piracy is a problem and must be curtailed, it is also possible that we aren't striking at the cause of the problem. What most software consumers fail to realise, is that software is not a product that one buys off the shelf like a tube of toothpaste. The reproduction costs of software are negligible and there are no raw materials involved. The software industry is therefore falls into the services sector rather than the manufacturing sector. More time is spent in providing support for software than is spent in developing it. Once this is understood, it becomes clear that the software itself should not be priced highly, but after sales service and support should be charged for. This is where the GNU/Linux system fits in. The licencing terms of this system state clearly that anyone has the right to obtain and redistribute copies of the system. The software is provided free of cost. This immediately affects the business of software pirates, as there is no way for them to sell at a lower price that which is already free. Further more, it translates into greater cost effectiveness for the consumer. There then arises the question of support and services, which is what this sector is all about. As mentioned earlier, software falls in the services sector, and therefore, the primary business for linux vendors is in providing services. This is one area in which India can play a big role, and provide these services to the rest of the world. As consumers too, one must realise the difference between support contracts for proprietary software and free software. Proprietary support agreements give you support only for the systems that you have purchased support for. In other words, if you own ten systems, but only have licences for five of them, you will get support for those five only. With free software, this is not the case. Any software contract that you sign with your vendor is independent of the number of copies of the software that you own. Most vendors will most likely just require that the distribution that you use was one published by them. There are several segments in which linux can play a major role, and is ready to do so at present. Linux and other free Unixen like *BSD have been very popular as servers. These systems are robust and have average uptimes that run into years. Add to this the ability of linux to emulate legacy file servers like Windows NT and Novell Netware (using samba and mars-nwe), and you have a system that can do well to replace any server running these systems. Businesses could do well to adopt it if only on the server side. The reduction in costs would be tremendous, and uptime would increase. One also needs to consider that a well set up linux system needs almost no system administration or maintenance. When considering client side applications of linux, we would need to divide the business sector into those that develop software, and those that use it. Software developers may need to use systems for which they develop, ie, someone developing for Windows would have to test his software on Windows. For persons who simply use software, it is much easier to use a linux based system. All software needed can be installed centrally, with client machines acting as simple X displays. This can significantly reduce the hardware requirements of the company, while also ensuring that a sysadmin needs to maintain only a single machine rather than the fifty machines that the company has. Most office productivity tools are available for linux. Word processors, spread sheets, and presentation utilities exist with several variants avaialable depending on your preferences. Legacy applications written for DOS or Windows can be run in emulated environments like dosemu or Wine. For research institutes, the main appeal of linux would have to be the large community that uses it and the spirit of sharing ideas between groups. In many ways, the development of the GNU/Linux system has proceeded in much the same way as science has progressed over the last two centuries. There is open collaboration between groups at distant locations with everyone benefitting. With large numbers of universities around the world using some variant of unix or linux as their base systems, persons in India could benefit from the existing knowledge and experiences of these. This large community of scientific users has resulted in a plethora of software written specifically to aid in research, and built to run on linux based systems. Educational institutes, at least those running courses on engineering and computers benefit for the same reasons. Additionally, students of computer science and engineering benefit from having the source code of a working operating system to look at and experiment with. Regardless of the field of computer science that they specialise in, having access to the source code for the tools they use and possibly try to develop will help them eventually. Another place where educational institutes can benefit is from the ready availability of projects that can be given to students as classroom assignments or semester projects. By working on an existing project, possibly collaborating with other developers around the world, the student gets a good idea of what it is like to work in a team and develop quality software, rather than writing the same old ten line assignments every year. Building a working software that is actually used by people, and then providing support to them builds in the student a sense of achievement and responsibility. This can only work towards producing a much more capable work force graduating from college every year. School education can also benefit from the use of linux. Cost reduction would be the primary reason. Schools would however benefit from the large amount of educational software available for linux. Students of higher classes can even be recruited to write software for students of lower classes. Computers are already taught in school at all levels, but what is taught leaves a lot to be desired. At present students learn to use specific software, as a result of which, they are none the wiser when confronted with a new system. Giving students some variety in what they learn, or even allowing them to learn how to get the job done rather than how to use a tool would leave them better off later in life. There is of course a lot more that I could write about this topic, but right now my eyes are closing and I can't stay focussed any longer. Will try and write something about why developers benefit from developing for free software. Ciao, Philip -- When we write programs that "learn", it turns out we do and they don't. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:19:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Girish Hanchate <girishhan(a)yahoo.com> To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: [ILUG-BOM] qmail book Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Hi, can anybody suggest same good book on qmail on linux or any informative sites on qmail. Rgds girish __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "nici bhatt" <nici_bom(a)hotmail.com> To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:51:30 +0000 Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Hi It is really good to know that out government is willing to promote linux , it will be really good idea to push this at extreme level so no doubt can cause this idea a premature death. Here I have some points to raise my voice for, and they are as we should not make any point which make this operating system is nice for email,firewall and proxy...etc. specific as I have seen lots of people use linux for this purpose so my request to all of you is dont try to prove that by doing this we can save lots of money because we know that this true but on other side you are doing injustice to all open source developers who have put their efforts for porting other application and this full scal os limits to one corner. So moral of story please come out of this mind frame that this is all linux can do. There are lot many things that can be done. So keep vary general attitude and try to justify it commercially as well as technical aspect of the operating system, I mean limitation of other operating system, commercial and technical comparison chart and availability. I will defiantly like to write some article on this issue but that will take some time so till then you people can contribute lots . Happy usage of linux. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: ranjeet(a)nttindia.com To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:11:26 GMT Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Re: qmail book Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Hi girish. http://www.qmail.org/ http://cr.yp.to/qmail.html http://www.lifewithqmail.org/ our trevor's SITE : (works very well) http://www.qmailtheeasyway.com/ now before posting always make sure that u have checked the LIST archives, www.google.com/linux. Don't just get spoonfeeded by others ..... they will like it if u do some part on ur own and come up with the difficulties while installing/configure/tweaking or something like it ..... if I'm wrong, please correct me luggers.. Regards, Ranjeet Girish Hanchate writes: > Hi, > > can anybody suggest same good book on qmail on linux > or any informative sites on qmail. > > Rgds > girish > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > _______________________________________________ > http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers > --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Parag Mehta" <pm(a)linuxindia.org> To: "linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in" <linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:29:01 +0550 Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] qmail book Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Hi Girish, lifewithqmail.org or book on qmail from sams publichers very good book.. best regards, pmehta On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 06:19:36 -0700 (PDT), Girish Hanchate wrote: >Hi, > >can anybody suggest same good book on qmail on linux >or any informative sites on qmail. > >Rgds >girish > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ >_______________________________________________ >http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers > > > --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:35:55 +0530 (IST) From: RNS <shastrakar(a)hbcse.tifr.res.in> To: <linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in> Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Hi group, Trevor good work , but as Keyur said , try not to defame MS ( though they deserve to ) , remember who your audience are ( Somewhere u mentioned M$crosoft-please remove it). Moreover, few stuffs which ppl think makes win score over gnu-linux (atleast on thier desktop ) is user- friendlyness, though this hurdle has been tackled to large extend- ppl dont realize it. I think that has to b stressed more , along with linux strong points like security and upgradibility. Other stuffs seems to b fine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:21:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Keyur Shroff <keyur(a)konark.ncst.ernet.in> To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Hi Guys, Thanks for your valuable inputs. I have just sent them mail requesting them to give us one more day to send final draft. So tomorrow I'll reorganize contents given by many of you and then send it. By that time if you still want to add something please send your mails by tomorrow before 1 PM. Thanks, Keyur --__--__-- Message: 8 To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Subject: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux From: Darshan.Wakchaure(a)lntinfotech.com Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:14:30 +0530 Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 000EE73665256B9C_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, A little more from my side too. Linux is/should be treated just like anyother Desktop OS. Like Unix and Windows , Linux can be made as a server with much more flexible environment . At the same time this OS has more more power as a Desktop OS as compared to any other operating system in the market. The strength lies in understanding and working with the utilities provided by the open source community. These are simple marvellous. Also the graphics resolution on the desktop of this os is far better than Windows. Linux gives the feel of Unix and the easy of Windows- a perfect os. Cheers, Darshan The trouble with life is, you're half way through it before you realize it's a "do it yourself" thing. =========================== _\ /_ mail-me-at : darshanw(a)blackcodemail.com / \ =========================== --=_alternative 000EE73665256B9C_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi, A little more from my side too. Linux is/should be treated just like anyother Desktop OS. Like Unix and Windows , Linux can be made as a server with much more flexible environment . At the same time this OS has more more power as a Desktop OS as compared to any other operating system in the market. The strength lies in understanding and working with the utilities provided by the open source community. These are simple marvellous.  Also the graphics resolution on the desktop of  this os is far better than Windows. Linux gives the feel of Unix and the easy of Windows- a perfect os. Cheers, Darshan The trouble with life is, you're half way through it before you realize it's a "do it yourself" thing. =========================== _\ /_    mail-me-at : darshanw(a)blackcodemail.com   / \ =========================== --=_alternative 000EE73665256B9C_=-- --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:05:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Trevor Warren <trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux......a la carte To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in --- Keyur Shroff <keyur(a)konark.ncst.ernet.in> wrote: > From: Keyur Shroff <keyur(a)konark.ncst.ernet.in> > To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in > Many many thanks Mr Trevor Warren. You have >nicely [snip] hello there Mr. Keyur, Trevor here......... U can just say sir, i am just doin my bit for the community that has given me somethin that i live for and i am proud to be part of. I think Philip has put forward some very good points wich you could make incorporate in ur presentation abt Linux advocacy. If there is anyway i may help to push Free Software usage in our upcoming policies of E-governance .........just mail me nd let me know. Attack will b the buzz word...;) Trevor Warren > put your > thoughts. It seems to me that not many people on > this list are > really interested in promoting Linux. Or that they > have not taken this > very seriously. Or they don't have much faith in our > Government. > Thanks and regards, > Keyur ===== ( >- GNU/LINUX, It's all about CHOICE -< ) /~\ __ http://www.qmailtheeasyway.com __ /~\ | \) / mailto: trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com \ (/ | |_|_ \ Urgent ->9820349221(a)maxtouch.co.in / _|_| \___________________________________/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:46:14 +0530 (IST) From: Philip S Tellis <philip.tellis(a)iname.com> To: Linux Users <linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in> Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Promoting Linux Reply-To: linuxers(a)mm.ilug-bom.org.in Sometime Today, Trevor Warren assembled some asciibets to say: > Open source software is different from traditional software in that > it holds no secrets -- the software's 'source code' is free for the > end user to examine, modify, or build on. With traditional Not true. Open source simply gives you access to the source code. It makes no provision for the modification or redistribution of that code. Free software gives you that freedom. > The Internet itself is Open Source Software's poster child, since > it was constructed of components built almost exclusively under the > Open Source model. Many, in fact, have likened Linux today to the > Internet in 1990 (used only by the technically savvy, seeing yearly > exponential growth, completely open, and perhaps poised to take over > the world). The seeds for the Internet were sown in 1969. It grew as a large experiment and yes, was used by geeks and scientists only. > Open Source is doing what God, government, and market have failed to > do. It is putting powerful technology within the reach of cash-poor Well, not what God, or government have failed to do. It's just that corporates have tried to stop it forever. The concept of free software has been around as long as there have been programmers. Proprietary software is only about 30 years old. Philip --__--__-- _______________________________________________ http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers End of Linuxers Digest

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