- Linuxers - lists.fsci.in

Re: [ILUG-BOM] RE: Linux on Cell
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

On Wednesday 15 September 2004 07:02, Latesh G wrote: > Hey Guys, > > Sherlock(a)vsnl.com mentioned the important aspects of > hardware and there's other stuff like IRDA, Camera and > Bluetooth which I can think of now. These are not > really necessary at first stage but we cant overlook > them. And AKAIK FBUS connection is generally used for > transferring Pics, tones and logos n stuff and MBUS > connection is used to Unlock the cell. A Flasher cable > is used to Flash the software to Cell. Can anyone get > ARM disassembler as I've the software for 3310 objdump, BIEW, gdb. Can u describe the 3310 flasher cable. does it have an adapter with 4 spring loaded pins that mounts under the battery. If so it is the regular fbus /Mbus adapter. Describe the flash process too. > and > other utils which are used to flash the software to > 3310 and I guess is the ideal and inexpensive cell to > start off. We will have to piggy back more flash on to the existing flash later - a little risky as u may wind up screwing the phone.

1 0

DVD writer
by komal 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

Hi I am looking for Linux/GNU compatible DVD writer. Anybody has idea? Thank you Komal

4 3

Minutes: September GLUG-Meet @ IIT
by Anurag 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

*Minutes of September GLUG-Meet @ KReSIT - IIT* The GNU/Linux Users Group of Mumbai held its September GLUG meet at KERSIT - IIT on 12th September 2004. Following discussions and talks were conducted. * Free Software and Intellectual Property Rights: Mr. Subramaniam Vutha and Ms. Nappinai from the Technology Law Forum gave an excellent talk on a very controversial and debatable topic "Free Software and Intellectual Property Rights". It was more of an "Open Discussion" rather than a talk. With dinesh, jtd, sameer popping up their question onto speakers, we went short of time. Anyways, this GLUG meet was one of the most informative meet with an attendance close to 40 people. * Details of next GLUG meet: Date: 10 October 2004. Agenda: -> Xtreme Programming: Nirav Mehta -> Screening of Python Movie: ? -> Debian GNU/Linux: Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe. Please see homepage for updates on next GLUG meet. -Anurag -- -- ----------------------------------------------- __ __ gnu /noo/ n. Ox like antelope; (abbr.) /gnoo/ (recursive acronym) Gnu's Not Unix.

1 0

RE: Linux on Cell
by Latesh G 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

Hey Guys, Sherlock(a)vsnl.com mentioned the important aspects of hardware and there's other stuff like IRDA, Camera and Bluetooth which I can think of now. These are not really necessary at first stage but we cant overlook them. And AKAIK FBUS connection is generally used for transferring Pics, tones and logos n stuff and MBUS connection is used to Unlock the cell. A Flasher cable is used to Flash the software to Cell. Can anyone get ARM disassembler as I've the software for 3310 and other utils which are used to flash the software to 3310 and I guess is the ideal and inexpensive cell to start off. Regards, Latesh. ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony

1 0

Indic localisers' meet, Sept 18-19 @ Mumbai
by Frederick Noronha (FN) 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Indic Localizers Meet Date 18th-19th September, 2004 Venue - Homi Bhabha Center for Science Education, TIFR, Mankhurd, Mumbai, directions http://www.hbcse.tifr.res.in/Data/Objects/contact Planning for Indic L10n teams meet. Online meet on next Monday, 13th September, from 3pm - 9pm IST , at #indlinux on irc.freenode.net . Agenda: Discuss Agenda points and schedule IRC Logs (RAW) * IndicMeetLog <http://www.indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/IndicMeetLog> - 3pm-9pm (16th August) Minutes of meetings * IndicOnlineMeetMinutes <http://www.indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/IndicOnlineMeetMinutes> ( 16th August ) Meeting Agenda Get all Indic L10n teams to meet and * discuss current status * share individual roadmaps * discuss interaction and collaboration protocols with international bodies/maintainers * share experiences * chalk out a common roadmap based on consensus decision * work on l10n guide, status document * discuss and put in place Usability Metrics for L10n Projects * discuss the methodology of creating Test Cases for L10n Usability * discuss vertical domains where L10n customisation could be coming in handy * discuss and brainstorm and implementation aspects of L10n Projects * identify areas where implementation could be immediately visible * discuss and arrive at a consensus on formation of a common platform (see next bullet) * get onto forming a legal body , aka Indic computing consortium (something like that) along with charter and mandate for the same ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Meeting Schedule 17th September Evening - Outstation participants arrive in Mumbai - Dinner Day 1 - 18th September * 8AM - 9 AM - Breakfast Session I * 9 AM - 9:30 AM - Workshop starts, introductions, Initial address and objectives of workshop. * 9:30 AM - 11:15 AM - Presentation / Talk by Language teams ( 15 mins each ) o Teams to present: Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Marathi, Malayalam * 11:15 - 11:30 - Tea/Coffee Break * 11:30 - 1 PM - Team presentations/Talks continue o Teams to present: Punjabi, Oriya, Telugu, Tamil, Urdu, CDAC / TDIL * 1 PM - 2 PM - Lunch Session II * 2 PM - 5 PM* * 2PM - 2:45 PM Pending Issues o Locale definitions, Collation o Text rendering issues/bugs o Indic Unicode Issues o Input Methods o Fonts * 2:45pm - 3:30pm Prospective Issues o Spellchecker o Dictionary / Lexicon o Translation management tools * 3:30 - 3:45 - Tea/Coffee Break * 3:45 - 4:15pm Testing o Why and what need testing o Indic test framework * 4:15 - 5:00pm Usability o Usability studies o Workshops * 5:00 - 5:30 - Open discussion * 5:30 break for the day * 8:00 pm - Dinner ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Day 2 - 19th September * 8 AM - 9 AM - Breakfast Session III * 9 AM - 9:30 AM - Documentation o Indic Handbook docs - Language/Script info, Font docs o Howtos - for different tasks * 9:30 - 10:15 AM - Packaging and Distribution Issues o Packaging Indic stuff o Building an Indic distro - GRIND o Live CDs * 10:15 AM - 11:00 AM Deployment o Having Indic widely available and used. o Activities to increase awareness and usage. o Discussion * 11:00 - 11:15 AM - Tea/Coffee Break * 11:15 - 1 PM - Theme talks (15 mins each) o participants please propose if you want to talk on something, and which has not been covered in prev sessions * 1 PM - 2 PM - Lunch Session IV * 2 PM - 3 PM - Future Roadmap for GNULinux Localization * Task list / TODO list * Timelines for above * 3 PM - 3:30 PM - Consortium Meeting o The need and objectives of forming a consortium * 3:30 - 3:45 - Tea/Coffee Break * 3:45 - 4:45 - Consortium Discussion * 4:45 - 5:00 PM - Meet closing * Participants depart * 8:00 PM - Dinner 20th Morning - participants depart. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Participants (confirmed) Language wise list * Bengali - Ankur group - Sayamindu Dasgupta, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay/Runa Bhattacharjee, Indranil Das Gupta * Gujarati - Utkarsh - Nirav Mehta, Ankur Patel * Hindi - IndLinux <http://www.indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/IndLinux> - G Karunakar, Ravishankar Shrivastava * Kannada - Pramod Raghavendra, Hari Prasad Nadig * Marathi - Indictrans - Jitendra Shah, Swapnil Hajare * Malayalam - SMC group - Mahesh T Pai , Arun M * Punjabi - Punlinux, Amampreet Singh Alam * Oriya - oriya.sarovar.org - Gora Mohanty * Telugu - ? * Tamil - Tamillinux team - R Hariram Aatreya, N Jayaradha * Urdu - Ravikant Sharma Others * Nagarjuna G - FSF India, TIFR * Prakash Advani - Onward Novell India * Venky Hariharan - Red Hat India * Abhijit Dutta - IBM India * Dr Om Vikas - TDIL, MIT, GOI * Hema Murthy - ? <http://www.indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/TeNet?action=create>_TeNet_, IIT Chennai * Alka Irani - CDAC * M Sasikumar - CDAC * Michael Sauntak - Burmese Localization ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Frederick Noronha (FN) Near Convent, SALIGAO 403511 GOA India Freelance Journalist Tel: +91-832-2409490 MOBILE: 9822122436 http://fn.swiki.net (FN's swiki) http://www.ilug-goa.tk (GNULinux Users Group Goa) http://www.livejournal.com/users/goalinks (GoaLinks Blog)

1 0

Problem with Reliance ISP in Linux
by Chirag Arjun Bhangale 15 Sep '04

15 Sep '04

Hi Whenever I connect to the Internet from my reliance phone in Linux(FC2) and log on to site www.indianrail.gov.in i always get an error - Request Time Out. So I use a public proxy server (currently - 203.199.85.2:3128) and then get access to the site. However when i connect to the Internet from reliance phone in Windows I do not need a proxy server for the same site. What could be the reason? And how can i inform the reliance ISP about this problem? Moreover I ve observed that the site shows time-out for all foreign proxy servers. So I guess they ve blocked foreign servers. But then why such a weird problem with Reliance ISP?? Regards Chirag.

1 0

Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Embedded... Robotics... (was: Linux Training.....The Best)
by Raseel Bhagat 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Hmm WOW, Embdeded Linux did stir up interest in a lot of ppl, but guys ....... be careful lest this also becomes one of those issues wher= e we discuss alot, but don;t take any concrete steps.... Rasee= l. On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 Ameet wrote : >yes... embedded= linux is available... it's new though, >but not for commercial pu= rposes... i work for DARPA on >this and these will be deployed on = the battlefield >within a year or so... > >unfor= tunately, it will be long before the common man >gets to know coz = military research is classified... > > > > &g= t; >If people are interested we could flag off an > > embedd= ed project on > > > > either ARM which is the most popula= r and easily > > available > > > > processor = or Power PC which has great > > performance, or ye ol X86 = > > > > (Via C2/3) which has a little of everything + = > > familarity. There > > > > are others available = too like 683xxxx, Mips, Sh, > > roll-ur-own > > >= ; > Sparc on xilinx / altera. This involves a lot of > > HAR= D WORK which > > > > our grrreat engineers find wholly un= palatable. > > Why to rack ones > > > > brain= s when one can cut and past from EFY > > /Elektor sundry 25 yr<= BR> > > > > old gizmos like wireless network (1 infrared = > > reciever, 1 ir led, > > > > 1 555). If u tho= ught it was 802.11 perish the > > thought, most > >= > > havent heard of such complex decimals "in the > &g= t; syllabus". And > > > > microprocessors=80= 85 menta kit (it should be > > labelled dementia > >= ; > > kit). > > > > > > I am not in thi= s space so I may be off here, but I > > think that the &g= t; > > issue here will be availability of the components, > = > multi layered > > > boards, etc. > > Procur= ing samples is fairly straight forward. Multi > > layer boards = are the main cost. > > > Designing custom hardware and getti= ng a board > > built > > > will be very time con= suming > > 3 to 4 weeks. 4layers. > > > &g= t; > unless you are working in some company > > > or know= people providing such service. It may be a > > better idea to<= BR> > > > try and acquire some SBC and try to port Linux on = > > it. > > download. connect serial cable. run flash = script. > > boring and uneducative to say the least. In fact > > most sbc come with a cd and linux preinstalled. > &g= t; > > > Then getting > > > development tools= like Emulators/BDM/JTAG > > debuggers is going to be >= ; > > another issue unless you already have something at > &= gt; hand. > > > > GNU toolkits have all the jtag to= ols. gdb works on > > em. > > > > ><= BR> > > > The point being, that doing embedded software on = > > custom hardware > > > involves a lot of support= ing material and this is > > the main > > > dete= rrent to its growth as a hobby. > > > > > > &= gt;It is a pity that even with tools like GNU/Linux > > and med= iums like > > > > the internet and email our level of edu= cation > > and awareness has > > > > become s= o pathetic. Jeez here i go again like an > > old foggy. &= gt; > > > > > > >I am personally interested in r= obotics. This > > would involve > > > > mecha= nics, electronics, embeded hardware and > > software and tonnes > > > > of fun. It would also provide self education to<= BR> > > those involved / > > > > seeking. &= gt; > > > > > I am interested in it too. Unfortunately= , the > > mechanical and the > > > electronic de= sign is way beyond my skills. > > Software is something &= gt; > > that I can do though. I have been thinking of > >= implemented something > > > like > > > = > > ><http://protowrxs.com/nolen/robotics/LTBot/defaul= t.asp> > > or > > > <http://www.evolution.= com/er1/what_overview.masn> > > > > http://oap.s= ourceforge.net/ > > http://www.robo-etf.org/ > > ht= tp://www.orocos.org/ > > > > > using standard > > > hardware rather than creating a custom board for &= gt; > it. Should be > > > simpler. Controller cards are a= vailable or can be > > designed for > > > steppe= r motor control, etc. Cost of the project > > components is an<= BR> > > > issue. > > Off the shelf components are at= least 30 times more > > expensive. > > Except for t= he system controller which can be an > > EPIAM2 mobo available = locally, all circuits are > > quite simple. However The EPIAM2 = is a power hog > > compared to ARM and would require a hefty po= wer > > pack. or be powered from mains. > > > Th= e cost of time is an investment in knowledge so > > it can be > > > discounted at the moment. > > > &g= t; > > Tell me if you want to do something with this. > > > > We will require a few more guys. > > >= ; > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers &g= t; > > >______________________________________________= ____ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail ha= s the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >= ; >-- >http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxer= s Raseel Bhagat [1] [a=] References 1. ="http://clients.rediff.com/signature/track_sig.asp"

1 0

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Embedded... Robotics... (was: Linux Training.....The Best)
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

On Tuesday 14 September 2004 21:12, Ameet wrote: dont top post. And trim all that is not relevant to your reply. > yes... embedded linux is available... it's new though, > but not for commercial purposes... i work for DARPA on > this and these will be deployed on the battlefield > within a year or so... If u distribute any gpld software, u cannot place any restrictions except those that are already placed by the original software. Even if u r DARPA. In short if u distribute linux then it can be used for any purpose including commercial. And embedded linux was available since 1998. Maybe DARPA woke up from their catatonic slumber recently. http://www.uclinux.org/ "The first port of Linux to systems without a MMU was done during the last week of January, 1998 by Kenneth Albanowski and D. Jeff Dionne. As with all ports of Linux, this is free software under the GNU Public License. The first public target for this MMU-less port of Linux was demonstrated on a Palm PDA." Say Hello to the real world ;-).

1 0

Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux Training.....The Best
by Raseel Bhagat 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 sherlock(a)vsnl.com wro= te : >On Tuesday 14 September 2004 17:02, Raseel Bhagat wrote: = > > > >Please dont cc me. I am already on the li= st. My mistake. I'll pay attention from this time = > >That is the least of your problems. Identif= ying the peripherals within is the worst pain. Actually most of the nokias = have an arm processor 8MB ram, 2Mb flash rom and peripheral (RF frontend, L= CD, keyboard, codec, modem and smartcard) interfaces whose regs and address= es are proprietory. They also have a few pins below the battery that allows= an fbus/mbus connection which is used for reflashing. You can read the fla= sh download it into an arm disassmbler and figure out the io addresses of t= he peripherals and the code used to drive them. The peripherals are actuall= y not very complex (except the modem). Once this is done u can port linux t= o the phone. However it would take a lot of time and effort to do the first= part. > > Hmm... So what you are trying to say tha= t this project is extremely difficult....but noe..impossible, Right? > > Look, I for one, am unemplpoyed , sitting at= home and > > studying(read:dreaming) about being an Embedded L= inux Engineer. So, > > if you wanna go ahead with any such proj= ects, Im game. Just that , > > I need a li'l bit of mentoring t= o do. Tell the time and place to > > start and we'll hit it off= . > >Ok Ok Hehehe.... Got a li'l car= ried away there. > >Ok so what robot do we want? extermin= ator which will track someone and shoot? or house help like vaccum the floo= r. Or stationary gsm controlled chappati making robot (god my wife & mo= m will love this). Dial a chappati. Man we could setup one at VT / Thane / = Borivali / Churchgate with a nice finger print reader. sms from the train q= ty of chappati. Go to RoboChap stick finger in out rolls al foil wrapped pe= rfectly cooked chappatis. And we can patent this and we can rule the chappa= ti world and we can be filthy rich and we need not eat chappati from our ro= bots any more and .... > >Seriously tho the chappati maki= ng robot will work perfectly with an 8 bit micro and proper mechanics no os= inside. So that would be boring. > hehehehehe.... i would l= ove being called "The Chappati Demi-Gods" or something to = that effect. But on a more serious note, i have a sugge= stion. First we should decide whether we are gonna work on the Robot Projec= t or the mobile phone OS project. Unless........of course, you wanna do bot h......hmmm.....that would be really something eh? Anywyas, de= cide and tell me.... Raseel. Raseel Bhag= at [1] [adstream_=] References 1. 3D"http://clients.rediff.com/signatu

1 0

[ILUG-BOM] Where is the best MS-Windows Vs LINUX Comparision Chart available
by Mahesh Mumbai 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Dear Frieds Where can I download the Best Windows Vs Linux Comparision Chart available. This chart can change the mindset of the Account Department of any company which is costing them for TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) of Software. This chart can probably change the mindset of the traditional MS-Windows User. Regards Mahesh

2 1

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Embedded... Robotics... (was: Linux Training.....The Best)
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

On Tuesday 14 September 2004 13:12, Rajesh Rajani wrote: > > Don't be so hard on them :-). The issue is direction. There are a > lot of good ideas out there, but they lack direction. It comes upon > the more experienced people like you to guide and encourage people > with ideas. I used to guide college projects, but found that too much spoon feeding was involved, as very few had an aptitude for engineering and problem solving in particular. It resulted in my doing the thinking and problem solving (otherwise the students would have not been able to complete the project). Also increasing bussiness pressure made me stop. > The onus is also on the new people to not take this > mailing list for granted and expect easy ready-to-eat answers all > the time. Google is your friend. > > >If people are interested we could flag off an embedded project on > > either ARM which is the most popular and easily available > > processor or Power PC which has great performance, or ye ol X86 > > (Via C2/3) which has a little of everything + familarity. There > > are others available too like 683xxxx, Mips, Sh, roll-ur-own > > Sparc on xilinx / altera. This involves a lot of HARD WORK which > > our grrreat engineers find wholly unpalatable. Why to rack ones > > brains when one can cut and past from EFY /Elektor sundry 25 yr > > old gizmos like wireless network (1 infrared reciever, 1 ir led, > > 1 555). If u thought it was 802.11 perish the thought, most > > havent heard of such complex decimals "in the syllabus". And > > microprocessors=8085 menta kit (it should be labelled dementia > > kit). > > I am not in this space so I may be off here, but I think that the > issue here will be availability of the components, multi layered > boards, etc. Procuring samples is fairly straight forward. Multi layer boards are the main cost. > Designing custom hardware and getting a board built > will be very time consuming 3 to 4 weeks. 4layers. > unless you are working in some company > or know people providing such service. It may be a better idea to > try and acquire some SBC and try to port Linux on it. download. connect serial cable. run flash script. boring and uneducative to say the least. In fact most sbc come with a cd and linux preinstalled. > Then getting > development tools like Emulators/BDM/JTAG debuggers is going to be > another issue unless you already have something at hand. GNU toolkits have all the jtag tools. gdb works on em. > > The point being, that doing embedded software on custom hardware > involves a lot of supporting material and this is the main > deterrent to its growth as a hobby. > > >It is a pity that even with tools like GNU/Linux and mediums like > > the internet and email our level of education and awareness has > > become so pathetic. Jeez here i go again like an old foggy. > > > >I am personally interested in robotics. This would involve > > mechanics, electronics, embeded hardware and software and tonnes > > of fun. It would also provide self education to those involved / > > seeking. > > I am interested in it too. Unfortunately, the mechanical and the > electronic design is way beyond my skills. Software is something > that I can do though. I have been thinking of implemented something > like > <http://protowrxs.com/nolen/robotics/LTBot/default.asp> or > <http://www.evolution.com/er1/what_overview.masn> http://oap.sourceforge.net/ http://www.robo-etf.org/ http://www.orocos.org/ > using standard > hardware rather than creating a custom board for it. Should be > simpler. Controller cards are available or can be designed for > stepper motor control, etc. Cost of the project components is an > issue. Off the shelf components are atleast 30 times more expensive. Except for the system controller which can be an EPIAM2 mobo available locally, all circuits are quite simple. However The EPIAM2 is a power hog compared to ARM and would require a hefty power pack. or be powered from mains. > The cost of time is an investment in knowledge so it can be > discounted at the moment. > > Tell me if you want to do something with this. We will require a few more guys.

2 1

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux Training.....The Best
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

On Tuesday 14 September 2004 17:02, Raseel Bhagat wrote: > Please dont cc me. I am already on the list. > Hey Im interested in Embedded Linux as well. And i had asked a lot > of questions concerning building the root filesystem about amonth > ago. I must have been out of town or my email must have been broken.Vsnl webmail makes me sick. > The only people who answered were Mr.Mitul Lambani and Chetan > I was one of the dudes to hit off this thread too and I am still > searching for a lot of stuff on this. Goood ;-) > Arre the problem is that apart > from searching and getting info about stuff there is very little > most of us can do. I atleast am just full of enthusiasm, cuz I > haven't got any resources at my hand. That is the least of your problems. Identifying the peripherals within is the worst pain. Actually most of the nokias have an arm processor 8MB ram, 2Mb flash rom and peripheral (RF frontend, LCD, keyboard, codec, modem and smartcard) interfaces whose regs and addresses are proprietory. They also have a few pins below the battery that allows an fbus/mbus connection which is used for reflashing. You can read the flash download it into an arm disassmbler and figure out the io addresses of the peripherals and the code used to drive them. The peripherals are actually not very complex (except the modem). Once this is done u can port linux to the phone. However it would take a lot of time and effort to do the first part. > Look, I for one, am unemplpoyed , sitting at home and > studying(read:dreaming) about being an Embedded Linux Engineer. So, > if you wanna go ahead with any such projects, Im game. Just that , > I need a li'l bit of mentoring to do. Tell the time and place to > start and we'll hit it off. Ok Ok > I am immensely interested in Robotics myself. But I always thought > that there was very limited scope to get invovled in that subject > in India, and I had actually postponed any plans to work on it for > future. IIT had a robocup football or somesuch tournament. > So, if you have anything in mind for that too, youhave a > "bakra" just dying to get exploited :-) The html tags are killing me. Ok so what robot do we want? exterminator which will track someone and shoot? or house help like vaccum the floor. Or stationary gsm controlled chappati making robot (god my wife & mom will love this). Dial a chappati. Man we could setup one at VT / Thane / Borivali / Churchgate with a nice finger print reader. sms from the train qty of chappati. Go to RoboChap stick finger in out rolls al foil wrapped perfectly cooked chappatis. And we can patent this and we can rule the chappati world and we can be filthy rich and we need not eat chappati from our robots any more and .... Seriously tho the chappati making robot will work perfectly with an 8 bit micro and proper mechanics no os inside. So that would be boring.

1 0

Re: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux Training.....The Best
by Raseel Bhagat 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 sherlock(a)vsnl.com wro= te : >Not at all. The problem is nobody asks any questions. One ha= s to >start working with embedded linux to ask questions. H= ey Im interested in Embedded Linux as well. And i had asked a lot of questi= ons concerning building the root filesystem about amonth ago. The only peop= le who answered were Mr.Mitul Lambani and Chetan S. >The re= cent thread on linux on cell phones was the only thread on >embedded stu= ff in a long time. Then again it was just general probing >for info whic= h is available on google. I was one of the dudes to hit off t= his thread too and I am still searching for a lot of stuff on this. >If somenone is really interested he would have done the bakgroun d, >outlined the problem, outlined plausable solutions and asked for >= ;comments. Arre the problem is that apart from searching and getting= info about stuff there is very little most of us can do. I atleast am just full of enthusiasm, cuz I haven't got any resources at my hand. >If people are interested we could flag off an embedded proje= ct on >ither ARM which is the most popular and easily available processo r or >Power PC which has great performance, or ye ol X86 (Via C2/3) whic= h >has a little of everything + familarity. There are others available &= gt;too like 683xxxx, Mips, Sh, roll-ur-own Sparc on xilinx / altera. >Th= is involves a lot of HARD WORK which our grrreat engineers find >wholly = unpalatable. Why to rack ones brains when one can cut and past >from EFY= /Elektor sundry 25 yr old gizmos like wireless network (1 >infrared rec= iever, 1 ir led, 1 555). If u thought it was 802.11 >perish the thought,= most havent heard of such complex decimals "in >the syllabus"= . And microprocessors=8085 menta kit (it should be >labelled dem= entia kit). Look, I for one, am unemplpoyed , sitting at home = and studying(read:dreaming) about being an Embedded Linux Engineer. So, if = you wanna go ahead with any such projects, Im game. Just that , I need a li= 'l bit of mentoring to do. Tell the time and place to start and we'll hit i= t off. >I am personally interested in roboti= cs. This would involve mechanics, electronics, embeded hardware and softwar= e and tonnes of fun. It would also provide self education to those involved= / seeking. I am immensely interested in Robotics myself. But = I always thought that there was very limited scope to get invovled in that subject in India, and I had actually postponed any plans to work on it for = future. So, if you have anything in mind for that too, youhave= a "bakra" just dying to get exploited :-) Ra= seel. Raseel Bhagat [1] [ads.re=] References 1. file://localhost/tmp/3D"h

2 1

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Re: Embedded... Robotics... (was: Linux Training.....The Best)
by Raseel Bhagat 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 Rajesh Rajani wrote : >Don't be so hard on them :-). The issue is direction. There are a lot >of good ideas out there, but they lack direction. It comes upon t= he >more experienced people like you to guide and encourage people with = >ideas. > I agree with Rajesh. If someone from the industry is = present to lead, a lot of morale boosting takes place. = >I am not in this space so I may be off here, but I think that the issue= here will be availability of the components, multi layered boards, etc. De= signing custom hardware and getting a board built will be very time consumi= ng unless you are working in some company or know people providing such ser= vice. It may be a better idea to try and acquire some SBC and try to port L= inux on it. Then getting development tools like Emulators/BDM/JTAG debugger= s is going to be another issue unless you already have something at hand. Actually, Rajesh, I think doing an entire project from scratch, i.e., designing and making the SBC, etc. will be much more fun, challengin= g and interesting as well. > >The point being, tha= t doing embedded software on custom hardware involves a lot of supporting m= aterial and this is the main deterrent to its growth as a hobby. = I agree, but I'm sure all the ppl on this list will be willing to help, = once an actual project kick-starts. So , come on guys, &= nbsp; was right...there is too much of bol-bachhan-giri going on. Le= ts do a project. And as I have mentioned before, you have me as a "bak= ra" to exploit(Trust me, I can be an excellent Protege). i'm sure ther= e are others who'll join in as soon as we get things going. Th= ere will be a hundred ppl contributing, but one of you seniors are gonna ha= ve to take a lead position. So? What say? Raseel. Raseel. Raseel Bhagat = [1][www.re=] References 1. 3D"http://clients.rediff.com/signature/track_sig.

1 0

[ILUG-BOM] Re: Embedded... Robotics... (was: Linux Training.....The Best)
by Rajesh Rajani 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

> >Not at all. The problem is nobody asks any questions. One has to start >working with embedded linux to ask questions. The recent thread on linux >on cell phones was the only thread on embedded stuff in a long time. Then >again it was just general probing for info which is available on google. >If somenone is really interested he would have done the bakground, >outlined the problem, outlined plausable solutions and asked for comments. >I for one would have definetly responded. Don't be so hard on them :-). The issue is direction. There are a lot of good ideas out there, but they lack direction. It comes upon the more experienced people like you to guide and encourage people with ideas. The onus is also on the new people to not take this mailing list for granted and expect easy ready-to-eat answers all the time. Google is your friend. >If people are interested we could flag off an embedded project on either >ARM which is the most popular and easily available processor or Power PC >which has great performance, or ye ol X86 (Via C2/3) which has a little of >everything + familarity. There are others available too like 683xxxx, >Mips, Sh, roll-ur-own Sparc on xilinx / altera. This involves a lot of >HARD WORK which our grrreat engineers find wholly unpalatable. Why to rack >ones brains when one can cut and past from EFY /Elektor sundry 25 yr old >gizmos like wireless network (1 infrared reciever, 1 ir led, 1 555). If u >thought it was 802.11 perish the thought, most havent heard of such >complex decimals "in the syllabus". And microprocessors=8085 menta kit >(it should be labelled dementia kit). I am not in this space so I may be off here, but I think that the issue here will be availability of the components, multi layered boards, etc. Designing custom hardware and getting a board built will be very time consuming unless you are working in some company or know people providing such service. It may be a better idea to try and acquire some SBC and try to port Linux on it. Then getting development tools like Emulators/BDM/JTAG debuggers is going to be another issue unless you already have something at hand. The point being, that doing embedded software on custom hardware involves a lot of supporting material and this is the main deterrent to its growth as a hobby. >It is a pity that even with tools like GNU/Linux and mediums like the >internet and email our level of education and awareness has become so pathetic. >Jeez here i go again like an old foggy. >I am personally interested in robotics. This would involve mechanics, >electronics, embeded hardware and software and tonnes of fun. It would >also provide self education to those involved / seeking. I am interested in it too. Unfortunately, the mechanical and the electronic design is way beyond my skills. Software is something that I can do though. I have been thinking of implemented something like <http://protowrxs.com/nolen/robotics/LTBot/default.asp> or <http://www.evolution.com/er1/what_overview.masn> using standard hardware rather than creating a custom board for it. Should be simpler. Controller cards are available or can be designed for stepper motor control, etc. Cost of the project components is an issue. The cost of time is an investment in knowledge so it can be discounted at the moment. Tell me if you want to do something with this. Regards, Rajesh

1 0

is mandrake 10 processor specific?
by (journoshiv)Shiv Kumar 91-22-28906693(phone), 9820320927(mobile) journoshiv 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Just read an item about Mandrake 10 for AMD. Now is the OS specially written for intel and AMD processors? shiv kumar

3 2

Hacking FC-2 Gnome Menus
by vaibhav samant 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Hi, Has anyone attempted to modify / Add menus in FC-2 (= Gnome). I am unable to add a category. Also how to add n= ew Keyboard shortcuts. Any pointers or advise. Th= x, Vai [1] [ads.rediff.=] References 1. 3D"http:/

1 0

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux Training
by New Immigrant new 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Thanks all. Basically the ones feasible for me would be ultramax(dadar) and cms (mazgaon, dadar). Usually the "front office" or counsellers as they are called may not give the accurate picture about the actual faculty. There could be a real good faculty somewhere but the initial sales pitch could be bad or vice versa. Any personal experiences? Any faculty of these classes on this list? Thank you once again. >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:52:51 +0530 > >Visit > >http://www.in.redhat.com/training/service/locations.php3 > _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

6 5

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux Training.....The Best
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

On Monday 13 September 2004 20:59, Vinayak Hegde wrote: > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 06:12:17 -0700 (PDT), Trevor Warren > > <trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Evening Gnuhas, > > > I think some one like JTD who has done quite a bit of work on > GNU/Linux OS in the embedded space might be a ideal candidate for > imparting GNU/Linux Training. He seems > to have gone on the hibernate mode on this list though :). Not at all. The problem is nobody asks any questions. One has to start working with embedded linux to ask questions. The recent thread on linux on cell phones was the only thread on embedded stuff in a long time. Then again it was just general probing for info which is available on google. If somenone is really interested he would have done the bakground, outlined the problem, outlined plausable solutions and asked for comments. I for one would have definetly responded. If people are interested we could flag off an embedded project on either ARM which is the most popular and easily available processor or Power PC which has great performance, or ye ol X86 (Via C2/3) which has a little of everything + familarity. There are others available too like 683xxxx, Mips, Sh, roll-ur-own Sparc on xilinx / altera. This involves a lot of HARD WORK which our grrreat engineers find wholly unpalatable. Why to rack ones brains when one can cut and past from EFY /Elektor sundry 25 yr old gizmos like wireless network (1 infrared reciever, 1 ir led, 1 555). If u thought it was 802.11 perish the thought, most havent heard of such complex decimals "in the syllabus". And microprocessors=8085 menta kit (it should be labelled dementia kit). It is a pity that even with tools like GNU/Linux and mediums like the internet and email our level of education and awareness has become so pathetic. Jeez here i go again like an old foggy. I am personally interested in robotics. This would involve mechanics, electronics, embeded hardware and software and tonnes of fun. It would also provide self education to those involved / seeking. rgds jtd

1 0

IRC
by komal 14 Sep '04

14 Sep '04

Hi I have seen cool icons like hearts,roses on IRC discussion. How they do that? Thank you Komal

4 3

[ot]get the facts home
by Trevor Warren 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Guys/Gals, For all those folks who are into retailing FLOSS based, consulting activities, solutions and services. Arm yourself with the FUD from your biggest competitor. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/facts/default.mspx Trevor ===== |------|____________________________________|------| ( >- / Scaling FreeSoftware & OpenSource \ -< ) /~\ / In the Enterprise \ /~\ | \) \ | www.fsf.org | www.opensource.org | / (/ | |_|_ \____________________________________/ _|_| __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

1 0

[ot]get the facts home
by Trevor Warren 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Guys/Gals, For all those folks who are into retailing FLOSS based, consulting activities, solutions and services. Arm yourself with the FUD from your biggest competitor. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/facts/default.mspx Trevor ===== |------|____________________________________|------| ( >- / Scaling FreeSoftware & OpenSource \ -< ) /~\ / In the Enterprise \ /~\ | \) \ | www.fsf.org | www.opensource.org | / (/ | |_|_ \____________________________________/ _|_| __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

1 0

list has gone to dogs !
by Harsh Busa 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

bye bye ... me signing out -- __________________________ http://www.ebackend.com/blog

2 1

Linux Training in Mumbai /Preferably south
by New Immigrant new 13 Sep '04

13 Sep '04

Hello, Can anyone guide me to some great linux training institutes/people in mumbai? Where the training is reasonably decent and doesnt cost an arm and a leg? Mainly require it towards the RHCE exam., thank you. _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

3 2

Kundli
by komal 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

Hi I am looking for Kundli like horoscope program on linux/gnu platorm. Thank you Komal

1 0

backup needed .....urgent
by anthony fernandes 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

hi friends, can some tell me a very good software which can be used to take back-up. automated back up. the infrastrure is somewhat like this 12 windows clients connected to a linux server which has samba installed in it. please tell me a few good options and the advanteges and disadvanteges of them incase u have used any. i will install and try them out. please help. this is a little bit in urgency. thanks a lot in advance. Anthony. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping.

4 4

Re: [ILUG-BOM] (Gmail Invitation)I have got 3 Gmail invitations left
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

On Sunday 12 September 2004 11:54, Yashesh Bhatia wrote: > hi.. u need a gmail invite ? WILL U STOP POSTING THESE STUPID INVITES TO THE LIST. U r wasting peoples mail bandwidth with this trash.

3 2

Cooperative (stationery) stores : outlet
by jitendras＠vsnl.com 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

> -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 00:23:30 -0700 (PDT) > From: Trevor Warren <trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] An Idea > > > There just aren't many options > available in our city where one can just walk in and > buy a copy of Open Office or Fedora Core 2. > > Outlets for Free/Open software I think panwalla may be too much but college commercial or cooperative stores where student purchase stationary for the submissions will be adequately distributed in the town 50 engg colleges, another 12 polytechnics, and 60 B.Sc (IT) colleges will be sufficient. An orderbook kept in these places and shops keeping the stuff on the shelf or calling on demend will do the job. jitendra

1 0

Re: [ILUG-BOM] message
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

On Saturday 11 September 2004 23:36, Anil Kulkarni wrote: > hello every1, > i have been a newbee in linux & also on this grp, > i c lot of events and meetings being organised, but from a > newbeis point of view i would like to suggest u ppl to keep an > seminar or a small workshop abt GNU/Linux....especially abt > switching onto "Debian" from other linux distribution Debian is as easy to install as any other. But ofcourse it works best if you understand a few things about your hardware and your software needs. The simplest method is to read the installation howto at http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/install Quite comprehensive. Ask questions after u have read that. Debian can be installed on at least 11 archs and in umpteen permutations (from a 1.44mb floppy to a large cluster of load balancing fault tolerant server farm). If a desktop is all u require go with knoppix, which is based on debian and requires u to type "hdinstall" at the bash command prompt. And best of all Debian is built based on policies decided by the user and developer community - no arbitary shifts and funny patches to make u their slave for life. > i mean the installation GUI of other distributions like RH & > Mandrake r very user friendly, but thats not the case with debian, > and especially for a newbee its very difficult. Yeah as long as u want sombody else to do the hardwork. > There are lot of guys out there want to learn debian, > unfortunately today in all classes they teach RH, its like "Linux = > RH", moreover there r very few books or almost 'none' available in > book stalls regarding debian, and its not possible for all ppl to > just log onto net and read ebooks. Dont think of using Debian without having a good net connection. Infact a desktop computer is nothing more than a glorified electronic typewriter without the internet. > So i strongly feel that there shd be some event organised abt > starting/learning debian.....and other such isuues which could be > difficult for a newbee to configure on debian..I know that > "Knoppix" could be a nice solution for this but still lets try to > learn the typical debian way.... The typical way with GNU/Linux is self help. So go to that url and read.

1 0

(Gmail Invitation)I have got 3 Gmail invitations left
by Rohit Baisakhiya 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

Hello Luggers, I have got 3 Gmail invitations left,so if anybody intrested drop me a line. Rgds, Rohit Baisakhiya.

8 13

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux on Cell
by Raseel Bhagat 12 Sep '04

12 Sep '04

Hey everyone interested in developing the Linux C= ell OS...lets do it !! Anyone has ideas on how to get started.= Hey Latesh !! you seem to be the one knowing most about it. Throw in a few= links. Im in!! But lets not waste anymore time discussing how "we sho= uld someday develop our own Linux Cell OS".......lets just start. = Raseel. On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 Latesh G wrote : &= gt;Hi Yogesh, > >Thanks for showin interest, I dont have = practical knowledge about how to alter the kernel for Nokia but I have good= knowledge about what features are available in particular phone(Nokia), wh= at OS it has and what are its limitations also how we can enhance it. I kno= w what kind of hardware is required for transffering stuff to Cell (not MMS= n Tones it uses different Cable). I suppose if few enthusiasts show inetre= st in this we can give it a try and I'm sure we can do it as nothings impos= sible. > >Latesh. > >Yahoo! India Matri= mony: Find your life partneronline. >-- >http://mm.ilug-b= om.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers Raseel Bhagat [1] [adstream_nx.cgi=] = References 1. 3D"http://clients.rediff.com/signature/tra

3 2

message
by Anil Kulkarni 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

hello every1, i have been a newbee in linux & also on this grp, i c lot of events and meetings being organised, but from a newbeis point of view i would like to suggest u ppl to keep an seminar or a small workshop abt GNU/Linux....especially abt switching onto "Debian" from other linux distribution i mean the installation GUI of other distributions like RH & Mandrake r very user friendly, but thats not the case with debian, and especially for a newbee its very difficult. There are lot of guys out there want to learn debian, unfortunately today in all classes they teach RH, its like "Linux = RH", moreover there r very few books or almost 'none' available in book stalls regarding debian, and its not possible for all ppl to just log onto net and read ebooks. So i strongly feel that there shd be some event organised abt starting/learning debian.....and other such isuues which could be difficult for a newbee to configure on debian..I know that "Knoppix" could be a nice solution for this but still lets try to learn the typical debian way.... Pls send ur suggestions abt this.... Thanku Anil M. Kulkarni

1 0

Re: [ILUG-BOM] An Idea
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

On Saturday 11 September 2004 20:47, Adil Kodian wrote: > >the higher the signal bandwidth, the higher the SNR required to > > extract info. > > actually it is the other way around - you can trade off SNR for > bandwidth and vice versa - Higher the bandwidth and you can go with I said the signal bandwidth, not the channel bandwidth. If your signal bandwidth=channel bandwidth you require a SNR=infinity. > very low SNR. The SNR of the signal from the Mars Rover is just > slightly above white noise - so they use a terahertz bandwidth pipe > for communication. Exactly. Trahertz channel bandwidth for sending a few kilobits of data. > > netflix teamed up to offer similar service. > > >to-peer stuff like bittorrent. With newer modulation techniques > > like > > UWB (1Gbps >bw and relatively "simple" recieving frontends) > becoming commercially >viable "unlimited" bw for the masses is only > an antenna away. > > ultrawideband is actually severely limited by distance. Very true - for now. > UWB is > actually the perfect example of trading off bandwidth for SNR. UWB > uses a spectrum that is many Ghz wide (not 1Gbps as data rate is > not bandwidth) > and therefore can support an SNR almost at the level > of the surrounding noise. One of the features that most uwb > proponents talk about (incorrectly) is the anonymity that this low > SNR guarantees. UWB is therefore a very good replacement for the > 802.11g that is used to solve in-home connectivity issues - but is > hardly something that can be used for public broadcast. Not neccessarily true. For now the power used is the microwatts range. Pumping up the power and frequency into the 25Ghz range should change things dramatically. Moon Bounce communications is already being used by hams in the 25 ~ 50 GHz region. Pure analog ofcourse. > data rates > are then defined according to shanon limit on how much information > you can send in this slice of the spectrum. > > > As a general comment - with the population density in India, and > the amount of fiber put in the ground by reliance, wouldnt fiber > based services be the way to go ? nothing can ever beat the data > rate capability of fiber. Fiber can support a spectrum width of > about 30Thz and that is only a limit imposed by the switching speed > of the laser, and not the fiber. In any case, even with 30 thz, you > can > theoretically transmit all of mumbai's internet, cable and > telephone traffic through a single fiber pair, provided it is fully > utilized. so if youve laid fiber all over the city, the last mile > problem is the only thing youve got to address with video delivery > networks. satellites are really overkill for anything today. That is precisely where UWB comes in. U dont require everybody's data to go up and down 36km to get things working.

2 1

An Idea
by Rony Bill 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

Hello Linuxers, An internet connection for the common man, that provides a download speed of 1 GBytes per second is still a dream. Although satellite based net connections exist, they have limitted subscribers due to high costs and limitted bandwidth. Nowadays the satellite broadcast frequencies are already in several Ghz, for example the Ku band that transmitts DTH signals. Suppose we have a satellite that transmitts at a frequency of say 10 Ghz. This translates to a digital bit rate of 10 Gbits per second. After a little frequency beating, we get an output signal of 8 Gbits per second or 1 GByte per second. This signal inputs into the computer using a gigabit LAN. The problem with normal internet is that it is an instantaneous system where the data is downloaded as per the user requirement and different users have different data to be simultaneously downloaded, thereby reducing bandwidth per user. Suppose instead of this we have a system where the data is not downloaded on demand but is serially transmitted at a high speed like 1 Gbytes per second. This means that in 24 hours, a channel of 1 Gbytes/sec can transmitt 24 x 3600 Gbytes of data. This corresponds to 86400 Gbytes or 86.4 terabytes of data in 24 Hours. The user has no choice but to wait for 24 hours for the next broadcast in case he/she has just missed it. If the satellite has 24 transponders then this data is split into 24 slots of one hour each. So now the waiting peroid for the next download is only one hour. If the transponders are 48 then this further reduces repeat download time to half an hour only. The final result is that the downloadable files are available to *everyone* within the satellite footprint at a speed of 1 GBytes/second subject to a maximum waiting period of 1 hour or 30 minutes. So everyone benefits equally and parallely. This will bnefit remote schools, villages and anyone in any remote part of the country. All data will be linked to an index file that will be transmitted as a pilot file. This file will be a mini website cum search engine classified into topics and subtopics. These will link to the actual file and its corresponding transponder and its broadcast time. A timer in the receiver will mark this file and download it at its arrival time into a buffer harddisk or directly into the computer depending on the hardware design. This will be very usefull for downloading large files, cds, dvds and other bulky data. Entire newspaper websites can be downloaded for liesure reading. Imagine downloading 4 CDs of Linux within 3 seconds flat. The cost for setting this system up will not be cheap but considering the India-China-Asia-Pacific region alone, the number of subscribers will be in millions or a billion. The receiver should not cost more than a DTH system that is now available for Rs. 3000/-. Lets put it at 5000/- rupees. This is just a one time investment. If every subscriber is charged max. 100 rupees or 2$ per month, then this translates to approx. a billion dollars every month from the entire region. This makes it the system for the common man. There will be additional income from the website owners just as they normally pay for web space and from advertisers. Ads will now be fullfledged video films not dancing gif images. This system will peacefully co-exist with the normal internet which will be still used for general purpose light surfing, email, uploads, chat, online payments and registration. The entire software for this can be developed using Linux which is stable and open-source and the techies are available right here in India so no need to import them. Equipment can be procured from China or elsewhere. Please send your suggestions and criticisms and if you like the idea, you can very well use it and help to provide a real high speed net for everyone. Many of you guys are in high positions in big organisations and you can set the ball rolling. Thanks and Regards, Rony.

11 16

Re: [ILUG-BOM] An Idea
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

On Thursday 09 September 2004 23:38, Rony Bill wrote: > Hello All, > > Modulation is used to transport a signal on a carrier. In the > earlier days frequencies were low and for sat. transmission they > had to be mounted on a carrier. But today the freq. that is used > for communication is so high that it is a carrier in itself. Eg. a > gigabit LAN passes data in gbytes per second. The moment you switch some component of a (phase, amplitude, frequency) signal you get side bands which depends on the amount of shift of the components. The center freq is the carrier and the info in the side bands. The info size is fixed by natural principles and named after a gent called Nyquist several decades ago. Now this carrier and side band has to be transported from point a to b thru some physical medium like Cu cable, fibre, or space. The ability of the medium to allow the signal+sideband to pass without distortion determines the final throughput. Incase of satellites, it is atmospheric characteristics, solar flares, antenna size, available power, etc that determines the data throughput. In general the higher the signal bandwidth, the higher the SNR required to extract info. Hence more complex and expensive electronics. > Someone told me, in > China they use terabit LAN. Sat. freqs. are also in GHz. Nowadays > digital formats in broadcasting have narrowed bandwidth utilisation > yet provide high volume content. They are able to cut down on side > bands. > > Can we have a satt. carrier signal that is a fixed frequency but is > made up of a constant data train? You can. Infact all known wireless data transmissions use exactly this method. >As of now, what is the highest > download speed achieved by satt. internet? What is the highest > speed currently available in the satt. 'pipes' that big corporates > use for international inter-office links > ? Afaik 384MBPS with a 6mtr dish. point to point.That is data from private networks. Dont know if anyone is interested in sending mundane webpages using this extremely expensive channel. > > Anyway, this is the technical part which will be looked after by > satt. designers and other techies. > > What I want to know mainly is whether the concept of having such a > ***high speed-high volume-repeatitive-serial file download > facility*** is acceptable and worth implementing. DAB on FM is already here. 250Kbps. Just get rid of the sattellite and things become practical. And adhoc wifi networks are even better when coupled with peer-to-peer stuff like bittorrent. With newer modulation techniques like UWB (1Gbps bw and relatively "simple" recieving frontends) becoming commercially viable "unlimited" bw for the masses is only an antenna away. > Many have > mistaken this for another television broadcast. It will be similar > but not the same. TV is only live entertainment. This is a normal > serious ultra high speed file download system for the common man at HEHE. all the computers and nerds are working hard on the serious stuff so that everbody can have free time for entertainment. At least for me computers are serious entertainment. > a very low monthly rental, for an *infinite number of users* within > the footprint. That is the whole issue. How good and usefull is > this idea? > > If the Govt. opens up the airwaves to private net operators then > the entire 58 (60 - existing 2) terrestrial TV channel spectrum > could be utilised for digital serial file broadcasting in a similar Teletext. Another flop. Currently used in Britian (Afaik). 120bps. > way but at a lower download speed than a satt.. Major companies > like Red Hat, Novel, Microsoft and many many others can provide > their heavy software files on the airwaves to be downloaded in our > homes and offices in a fast and economical way. No wiring, no > cable. Carrier pigeon would be better. The bit error rates at BW more than a few 100 kbps over even short distance of 2 kms is so high that it would take forever to download one iso. And cable internet is what (supposed to) works better.

2 1

[ILUG-BOM] (fwd) [Sysads] TOTAL POWER SUPPLY SHUT DOWN FOR THE ENTIRE CAMPUS ON 12.9.2004 (fwd)
by Sameer D. Sahasrabuddhe 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

FYI. Power shutdown on IIT campus on Sunday morning. I had not seen this earlier ... The meet is in the evening, so lets keep our fingers crossed. Sameer. -- forwarded message -- Newsgroups: it.general Subject: [Sysads] TOTAL POWER SUPPLY SHUT DOWN FOR THE ENTIRE CAMPUS ON 12.9.2004 (fwd) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:15:47 +0530 Organization: Kanwal Rekhi School of Information Technology INDIAN INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY BOMBAY =09 Electrical Maintenance Division No: EMD/B-28/2004 CIRCULAR=09=096th Sept. 2004 TOTAL POWER SUPPLY SHUT DOWN FOR THE ENTIRE CAMPUS ON 12.9.2004 This is to inform all the electricity users in the Campus that M/s. The Tat= a Power Co. Ltd., supplier of electricity, is carrying out metering potentia= l transformer structure replacement/repair on 12.9.04 Sunday. The mutually agreed time for the work is about two and half hours starting from 09.00 a.= m. on 12.9.04. To carry out this work, 22KV supply to the entire campus has = to be kept off. Though the work is planned, the same is being carried out by outside agency, and hence users are requested to bear with the inconvenienc= e if the time is extended due to necessity of unexpected work. Inconvenience caused is regretted. =09=09=09=09=09Executive Engineer(Elect.)(SG) _______________________________________________ Sysads mailing list -- end of forwarded message -- -- Research Scholar, KReSIT, IIT Bombay http://www.it.iitb.ac.in/~sameerds/

1 0

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Sept 12 GLUG Meet
by venky1＠vsnl.com 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

My replies below: From: Trevor Warren <trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com> <snip> > Whats the itenary for the meet?. Is it possible to > have this in the morning this time around just to see > the outcome???. Next time, maybe? We'll stick to 4PM on Sunday September 12th this time. One of the objectives of planning in advance is to avoid last minute chopping and changing. Also, cannot reschedule the speakers. Agenda is the talk on FLOSS and IPR issues by Ms. Nappinai and Subramaniam Vutha of the Technology Law Forum. <snip> > > there any issues that need to be discusses? > > any voluneteers who could steer a healthy debate on > some core issues > > if possible lets also talk about some of the > activities we could spawn One item for the agenda could be more localized LUG meets, though I tend to agree with Nagarjuna that the Mumbai GLUG list should exists as it is. Venky

2 1

Sept 12 GLUG Meet
by Venkatesh (Venky) Hariharan 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

Dear All, Here is an article by RMS which is topical since this Sunday's GLUG Mumbai meeting will focus on the issues of patents and FLOSS. Prof. DB Phatak had to cancel his talk this Sunday, hence the first session will focus on Free/Open Source Software and IPR issues. Mitul said that he will try to put together a talk on PHP Resty. Do remember that the entry to KReSIT will be through the parking lot at the back of the building since it is a Sunday and the main doors are closed. Regards, Venky 98214-47800 How to fight software patents - singly and together Thursday September 09, 2004 (04:10 PM GMT) By: Richard M. Stallman Software patents are the software project equivalent of land mines: Each design decision carries a risk of stepping on a patent, which can destroy your project. Developing a large and complex program means combining many ideas, often hundreds or thousands of them. In a country that allows software patents, chances are that some substantial fraction of the ideas in your program will be patented already by various companies. Perhaps hundreds of patents will cover parts of your program. A study in 2004 found almost 300 U.S. patents that covered various parts of a single important program. It is so much work to do such a study that only one has been done. Practically speaking, if you are a software developer, you will usually be threatened by one patent at a time. When this happens, you may be able to escape unscathed if you find legal grounds to overturn the patent. You may as well try it; if you succeed, that will mean one less mine in the field. If this patent is particularly threatening to the public, the Public Patent Foundation may take up the case; that is its specialty. If you ask for the computer-using community's help in searching for prior publication of the same idea, to use as evidence to overturn a patent, we should all respond with whatever useful information we might have. However, fighting patents one by one will never eliminate the danger of software patents, any more than swatting mosquitoes will eliminate malaria. You cannot expect to defeat every patent that comes at you, any more than you can expect to kill every monster in a video game: sooner or later, one is going to defeat you and damage your program. The U.S. patent office issues around 100,000 software patents each year; our best efforts could never clear these mines as fast as they plant more. Some of these mines are impossible to clear. Every software patent is harmful, and every software patent unjustly restricts how you use your computer, but not every software patent is legally invalid according to the patent system's criteria. The software patents we can overturn are those that result from "mistakes," where the patent system's rules were not properly carried out. There is nothing we can do when the only relevant mistake was the policy of allowing software patents. To make a part of the castle safe, you've got to do more than kill the monsters as they appear -- you have to wipe out the generator that produces them. Overturning existing patents one by one will not make programming safe. To do that, we have to change the patent system so that patents can no longer threaten software developers and users. There is no conflict between these two campaigns; we can work on the short-term escape and the long-term fix at once. If we take care, we can make our efforts to overturn individual software patents do double duty, building support for efforts to correct the whole problem. The crucial point is not to equate "bad" software patents with mistaken or invalid software patents. Each time we invalidate one software patent, each time we talk about our plans to try, we should say in no uncertain terms, "One less software patent, one less menace to programmers: the target is zero." The battle over software patents in the European Union is reaching a crucial stage. The European Parliament voted a year ago to reject software patents conclusively. In May, the Council of Ministers voted to undo the Parliament's amendments and make the directive even worse than when it started. However, at least one country that supported this has already reversed its vote. We must all do our utmost right now to convince an additional European country to change its vote, and to convince the newly elected members of the European Parliament to stand behind the previous vote. Please refer to www.ffii.org for more information on how to help and to get in touch with other activists. Copyright 2004 Richard Stallman. Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article are permitted worldwide without royalty in any medium provided this notice is preserved.

5 4

Re: [ILUG-BOM] Linux on Cell
by Raseel Bhagat 11 Sep '04

11 Sep '04

Hey guysm this link is really good. Folow it around, it= s actually very intriguing and fascinating..... we can build up from = here. Raseel. On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 Asit Vad= havkar wrote : >FYI >http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3= 421076804.html > >cheers >- Asit > = >On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 09:27:32 +0530, Rajesh Rajani <rajeshr(a)vsnl.c= om> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > >Thank= s for showin interest, I dont have practical knowledge about how to &= gt; > >alter the kernel for Nokia but I have good knowledge about wha= t features > > >are available in particular phone(Nokia), wh= at OS it has and what are its > > >limitations also how we c= an enhance it. I know what kind of hardware is > > >required= for transffering stuff to Cell (not MMS n Tones it uses different &g= t; > >Cable). I suppose if few enthusiasts show inetrest in this we c= an give it > > >a try and I'm sure we can do it as nothings = impossible. > > > > IAAESP (I am an embedded softwa= re programmer). > > > > I admire your enthusiasm. I= t will be well placed if you have some > > background in develo= ping kernels for RTOS, etc. Not even writing > > applications o= n RTOS is enough to get into the kernel of such a beast leave > &g= t; aside knowing just the feature set. You may have seriously underestimate= d > > the effort involved in such an endeavour. > > > > That aside, the practical problem for such a project is ge tting the > > hardware information of the cell phone in questio= n. Just knowing the > > processor is not enough, you need to kn= ow the memory map, the peripherals > > connected, etc. For conn= ectivity you wil need to know the protocols, etc. > > >= ; > Nokia is not encouraging anyone to develop any software for it's pho= nes > > which use the Nokia OS (apart from using J2ME). You can develop C++ > > applications for Series 60 phones which use th= e Symbian OS but all the > > interesting APIs are not available= . The OS abstracts all the details of the > > hardware and no h= ardware info is actually available for any Nokia phone > > AFAI= K. Replacing the OS on such phones is going to be VERY difficult if not = > > impossible. You can find technical info for any Nokia phone in= the > > developer section of the website. > > = > > If you want to play around with cell phones, the Motorola Linu= x phone seems > > to be the best bet since all the info will li= kely be available. > > > > All the best in your ven= ture. > > > > Regards, > > Rajesh = > > > > > > > > > >= ; -- > > http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/listinfo/linuxers > > > >-- >http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/m= ailman/listinfo/linuxers Raseel Bhagat [1] [www.rediff=] References 1. 3D"http://clients.rediff.com/signature/track_sig.asp"

1 0

Re: [ILUG-BOM] An Idea
by sherlock＠vsnl.com 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

On Thursday 09 September 2004 22:39, Saswata Banerjee & Associates wrote: > kishor bhagwat wrote: > > >>farmers (anyone remember Amchi Mati Amchi Mansa?) > > > >I DO!!! pretty neat and informative program - used to be > >primetime too at 4pm i think.. some of it was neat. Some downright dnagerous like use of pesticides and fertilizers which are known carcinogens and denetic disrupters. > > It was actually prime time stuff. They used to show it at 7:30 or > 8:00 pm in the evening. Since there was no other channel to > watch........ > saswata Yeah only serious government propoganda about foreign hands and India is Indira and the great achivements of government undertakings and how fortunate we were to be accepted as subjects of the great congress raj. Never mind it took 8 yrs to get a phone, and a lathi charge and tear gas to book Hamara bajaj. Two generations brainwashed by utter rubbish in the guise of patriotism. OH how i miss propoganda. If only DD makes it's archives public it would provide great entertainment

2 1

[commercial] trainers required
by pramila 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Hi Everyone, We urgently require trainers for: 1. PHP 2. Perl 3. MySQL Its a 5-7 day training will have to be conducted @ 3 hours per day during week days. Those interested may mail their profiles to prami_22(a)linuxmail.org with expected remuneration per hour. Thanx, Pramila --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

1 0

apologies for the repetitive emails
by Trevor Warren 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Afternoon guys, I seem to have lost my mind with my webmail client causing you all to be spammed with three copies of a mail. Please ignore and apologies again. Trevor ===== ( >- -< ) /~\ ______________________________________ /~\ | \) / Scaling FLOSS in the Enterprise \ (/ | |_|_ \ trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com / _|_| \____________________________________/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

1 0

Re: Linux requirement
by Trevor Warren 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Morning all, We are looking out for the Facility Management Services (FMS)for our Networking department. We are looking for the engineers with proficiency in the following:- * * Operating System : Proficient in various flavors of Gnu-Linux/UNIX operating system. Knowledge of Shell scripting and Linux kernel is preferable. Hardware Platform o o Intel range of server and desktop RISC based server * * Office Automation : Services like Microsoft ISA, Mailing software e.g. Microsoft Exchange, SQUID mail, Microsoft Active Directory structure e.g. ADS etc. Networking o o Hands on experience on LAN/WAN, structured cabling. o Thorough knowledge on TCP/IP, protocols and various communication modes o Conversant with Internet technology and data communication. o Network Design and Management Co-ordination with telecom service provider, vendors. * Security o o Network security components like SSH/SSL, Firewall, IDS etc. PKI and its implementation using Smart Card technology * General o o Knowledge of programming and testing of application will be an added advantage. Conceptual Knowledge on database management techniques, Software support and Analytical skills. Please email your c.v's to "Ajit Shinde <AjitS(a)nsdl.co.in>". Trevor ===== ( >- -< ) /~\ ______________________________________ /~\ | \) / Scaling FLOSS in the Enterprise \ (/ | |_|_ \ trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com / _|_| \____________________________________/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

1 0

Re: Linux requirement
by Trevor Warren 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Morning all, We are looking out for the Facility Management Services (FMS)for our Networking department. We are looking for the engineers with proficiency in the following:- * * Operating System : Proficient in various flavors of Gnu-Linux/UNIX operating system. Knowledge of Shell scripting and Linux kernel is preferable. Hardware Platform o o Intel range of server and desktop RISC based server * * Office Automation : Services like Microsoft ISA, Mailing software e.g. Microsoft Exchange, SQUID mail, Microsoft Active Directory structure e.g. ADS etc. Networking o o Hands on experience on LAN/WAN, structured cabling. o Thorough knowledge on TCP/IP, protocols and various communication modes o Conversant with Internet technology and data communication. o Network Design and Management Co-ordination with telecom service provider, vendors. * Security o o Network security components like SSH/SSL, Firewall, IDS etc. PKI and its implementation using Smart Card technology * General o o Knowledge of programming and testing of application will be an added advantage. Conceptual Knowledge on database management techniques, Software support and Analytical skills. Please email your c.v's to "Ajit Shinde <AjitS(a)nsdl.co.in>". Trevor ===== ( >- -< ) /~\ ______________________________________ /~\ | \) / Scaling FLOSS in the Enterprise \ (/ | |_|_ \ trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com / _|_| \____________________________________/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

1 0

Re: Linux requirement
by Trevor Warren 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Morning all, We are looking out for the Facility Management Services (FMS)for our Networking department. We are looking for the engineers with proficiency in the following:- * * Operating System : Proficient in various flavors of Gnu-Linux/UNIX operating system. Knowledge of Shell scripting and Linux kernel is preferable. Hardware Platform o o Intel range of server and desktop RISC based server * * Office Automation : Services like Microsoft ISA, Mailing software e.g. Microsoft Exchange, SQUID mail, Microsoft Active Directory structure e.g. ADS etc. Networking o o Hands on experience on LAN/WAN, structured cabling. o Thorough knowledge on TCP/IP, protocols and various communication modes o Conversant with Internet technology and data communication. o Network Design and Management Co-ordination with telecom service provider, vendors. * Security o o Network security components like SSH/SSL, Firewall, IDS etc. PKI and its implementation using Smart Card technology * General o o Knowledge of programming and testing of application will be an added advantage. Conceptual Knowledge on database management techniques, Software support and Analytical skills. Please email your c.v's to "Ajit Shinde <AjitS(a)nsdl.co.in>". Trevor ===== ( >- -< ) /~\ ______________________________________ /~\ | \) / Scaling FLOSS in the Enterprise \ (/ | |_|_ \ trevorwarren(a)yahoo.com / _|_| \____________________________________/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

1 0

Re: Linux on Cell
by Rajesh Rajani 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Hi, >Thanks for showin interest, I dont have practical knowledge about how to >alter the kernel for Nokia but I have good knowledge about what features >are available in particular phone(Nokia), what OS it has and what are its >limitations also how we can enhance it. I know what kind of hardware is >required for transffering stuff to Cell (not MMS n Tones it uses different >Cable). I suppose if few enthusiasts show inetrest in this we can give it >a try and I'm sure we can do it as nothings impossible. IAAESP (I am an embedded software programmer). I admire your enthusiasm. It will be well placed if you have some background in developing kernels for RTOS, etc. Not even writing applications on RTOS is enough to get into the kernel of such a beast leave aside knowing just the feature set. You may have seriously underestimated the effort involved in such an endeavour. That aside, the practical problem for such a project is getting the hardware information of the cell phone in question. Just knowing the processor is not enough, you need to know the memory map, the peripherals connected, etc. For connectivity you wil need to know the protocols, etc. Nokia is not encouraging anyone to develop any software for it's phones which use the Nokia OS (apart from using J2ME). You can develop C++ applications for Series 60 phones which use the Symbian OS but all the interesting APIs are not available. The OS abstracts all the details of the hardware and no hardware info is actually available for any Nokia phone AFAIK. Replacing the OS on such phones is going to be VERY difficult if not impossible. You can find technical info for any Nokia phone in the developer section of the website. If you want to play around with cell phones, the Motorola Linux phone seems to be the best bet since all the info will likely be available. All the best in your venture. Regards, Rajesh

2 1

debarchiver
by harshal＠iucaa.ernet.in 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

there used to be apt-proxy in woody, but i can't find it in sarge. i heard it is debarchiver is better, anybody has used it? or know how to configure it. i have one machine connected via T1 line and others are behind it, so to save on bandwidth i need these kind of tool. thanking you. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content, and is believed to be clean.

3 6

[Re]: Linux Cell Phone
by Yogesh Shah 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Hello Latesh and Harsh, I am enthusiastic to put my efforts on an open-source project. When can we arrange a meeting and start things? There is an upcoming event for GLUG Mumbai on 12th September 2004 at IIT Bombay (KReSIT, 3rd Floor). Is it possible for you to meet on this day (Sunday)? Please reply on the mailing list or my email address (yogeshjshah(a)hotmail.com). Thank you and looking forward to hear from you. With regards, Yogesh _________________________________________________________________ Pep up your screen! Get a great start to your day! http://www.msn.co.in/Cinema/screensaver/ Get these vibrant screensavers!

1 0

An Idea-2
by Rony Bill 10 Sep '04

10 Sep '04

Hello All, There were some queries about the idea which I hope to answer. The system of high speed serial data dumping that I wrote about will not replace the existing internet. It will only provide an extra ultra high speed channel for downloading heavy files for each one and everyone without the bother of bandwidth sharing and at a very affordable price. As a rule or plan, all files above 5 or 10 Mb can be considered eligible for this system. Entire web sites can be downloaded as a single arcihve file. The ones lower than that, can be downloaded using the normal internet. All peer-peer, VPN, chat, email, online registration, payments, shopping etc. will be done using *regular internet only*. This high speed channel will not only be usefull as an infotainment channel for music, news and video but also for normal software and other heavy file downloads. Suppose you need to download 4 CDs of Linux, totalling 4 x 700 Mb = 2800 Mb or 2.8 Gb in your home. Even at a speed of 512 Kbits per second, your speed in bytes will be 512 / 8 = 64 Kbytes per second. So 2800 Mb will take (2,800,000 Kb / 64) seconds = 43750 seconds. This translates to more than 12 Hours. So it takes approx. 3 hours per CD to download even at 512 Kbps which everyone still cannot afford yet or their locality does not have this facility. You also got to treat your cablewala as God. Instead of that, in the system suggested, the waiting time would be max. half an hour or one hour but 4 CDs would be downloaded in less than 3 seconds. Imagine the time saved for people who need to download CDs regularly and in large numbers. A single DVD of 4.3 Gb would be downloaded in 4.3 seconds. On the regular 512 Kbps it would take 18.66 Hours. All you would need to do is mark all the files to be downloaded from a pilot list and within their rotation cycle of half or one hour, they would all be dowloaded one by one and be ready in your hard disk in one cycle itself. The maximum you can download within this rotation cycle will only be limitted to the maximum capacity of your hdd. The same data would take days or weeks to download under normal net circumstances. 120 Gb takes more than 21 full days to download at 512 Kbps. In this case, half or one hour. Take your pick. Frankly I don't know what is latency in a satellite but if Philip could elaborate more and provide points on why it has a problem in sat transmission, it would help a lot in making improvements to this system. Since the repeat cycle of data broadcast is every hour or half, problems due to bad weather or earth's rotation will be temporary. Any modifications and suggestions are welcome too. The example I gave is for a 1 Gbytes per second speed having a capacity of 86.4 Terabytes per rotation cycle of half or one hour. This should suffice for all the heavy files that currently exist everywhere on the internet. If it is technologically possible, we can use much higher speeds like 2 to 5 GBytes per second and that will pack in multiples of 86.4 Terrabytes per cycle or reduce the cycle time for the same amount of data. Regards, Rony.

4 4

by Anil Kulkarni 09 Sep '04

09 Sep '04

hello every1, i have been a newbee in linux & also on this = grp, i c lot of events and meetings being organised, but from = a newbeis point of view i would like to suggest u ppl to keep an semi= nar or a small workshop abt GNU/Linux....especially abt switching ont= o "Debian" from other linux distribution i mea= n the installation GUI of other distributions like RH & Mandrake = r very user friendly, but thats not the case with debian, and especia= lly for a newbee its very difficult. There are lot of guys out= there want to learn debian, unfortunately today in all classes they = teach RH, its like "Linux = RH", moreover there r very fe= w books or almost 'none' available in book stalls regarding debian, a= nd its not possible for all ppl to just log onto net and read ebooks. So i strongly feel that there shd be some event organised abt = starting/learning debian.....and other such isuues which could be = difficult for a newbee to configure on debian..I know that "Knoppix&qu= ot; could be a nice solution for this but still lets try to learn the typical debian way.... Pls send ur suggestions abt this= .... Thanku Anil M. Kulkarni = [1] [adstream=] References 1. 3D"http://clients.rediff.com/signat

1 0

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

Linuxers