Hi, Maybe the question has been asked already and I could find one of the posts by Wouter Verhelst where he has mentioned about some kind of installer which can be used for Hardware Compatibility Testing. I need to deploy Debian for purpose of running a web service based application on JBoss. My first worries are about purchase of hardware for this project and I am pretty much stuck up as no major vendor except HP is providing support for Debian and pushing the idea of installing a unsupported OS to top management would not be an easy task as well. Is there any way in which I can be assured and hence push my top management to move to Debian despite it not being supported by major hardware vendors ? I know that's more of a management issue then technical but if there is someway through which I can find compatibility of Debian with different servers provided by various vendors (primarily HP, Dell and IBM) then it would be really helpful for me in decision making. I tried to install Debian 5.0 on a HCL Infinity Global Line 2700 series server and the installation went hassle free, however when I did lspci -n and tried to verify the compatibility using the web based utility provided at http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl I was surprised to see several hardware components as not being supported. Can I consider the report displayed by http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl as final and dump my idea of installation of Debian or will the lack of support for some of the drivers won't have much effect on functioning of my system. This is the question which is worrying me the most as of now, because I don't want my servers to hang up in middle of operations at later stage and it would be really nice if someone can help me out on this front.
Also if possible please let me know how to find which all hardware is supported by a specific kernel. For e.g. I'm using kernel 2.6.22-3-486 and would like to know which all hardware components does it support. If there is someway to find a categorical list of such hardware components then that would be lot more helpful.
Thanking you for your kind concern.
Regards, Mayank
On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Mayank wrote:
My first worries are about purchase of hardware for this project and I am pretty much stuck up as no major vendor except HP is providing support for Debian and pushing the idea of installing a unsupported OS to top management would not be an easy task as well.
Firstly distros have very little to do with the hardware. It's the kernel which takes care. Secondly you will have to list out your hardware requirements particularly if its SAS or other specialised storage hardware. I am presuming the cpu is Intel / AMD. Thirdly you are pretty much up the creek with most of the specialised hardware unless the internal components are COTS "unbranded" stuff. Software will be the least of your issues after 3 years. Before that period anything works anyway. Fourthly if it's branded stuff check the SLAa very closely and compare costs. Most of the time the money spent on branded stuff and SLAs is a total waste.
CAVEAT EMPTOR: Your organisation has technically sound hardware and sysadmins around.
Can I consider the report displayed by http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl as final and dump my idea of installation of Debian or will the lack of support for some of the drivers won't have much effect on functioning of my system. This is the question which is worrying me the most as of now, because I don't want my servers to hang up in middle of operations at later stage and it would be really nice if someone can help me out on this front.
Lack of support is usually endemic to graphics, sound and hardware raid. On a server these are usually more a hindrance, consuming power unnecessarily. Rarely it's the sata / network phy devices.
Also check out coreboot / linuxbios. If your motherboard is listed as supported you dont have a worry in the world. This project gets rid of the bios and has linux as the bios - ya you dont even require a disk.
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Mayank wrote:
My first worries are about purchase of hardware for this project and I am pretty much stuck up as no major vendor except HP is providing support for Debian and pushing the idea of installing a unsupported OS to top management would not be an easy task as well.
Firstly distros have very little to do with the hardware. It's the kernel which takes care. Secondly you will have to list out your hardware requirements particularly if its SAS or other specialised storage hardware. I am presuming the cpu is Intel / AMD. Thirdly you are pretty much up the creek with most of the specialised hardware unless the internal components are COTS "unbranded" stuff. Software will be the least of your issues after 3 years. Before that period anything works anyway. Fourthly if it's branded stuff check the SLAa very closely and compare costs. Most of the time the money spent on branded stuff and SLAs is a total waste.
CAVEAT EMPTOR: Your organisation has technically sound hardware and sysadmins around.
Can I consider the report displayed by http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl as final and dump my idea of installation of Debian or will the lack of support for some of the drivers won't have much effect on functioning of my system. This is the question which is worrying me the most as of now, because I don't want my servers to hang up in middle of operations at later stage and it would be really nice if someone can help me out on this front.
Lack of support is usually endemic to graphics, sound and hardware raid. On a server these are usually more a hindrance, consuming power unnecessarily. Rarely it's the sata / network phy devices.
Also check out coreboot / linuxbios. If your motherboard is listed as supported you dont have a worry in the world. This project gets rid of the bios and has linux as the bios - ya you dont even require a disk.
-- Rgds JTD -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Hi, Thanks for the information however as I've already mentioned in my earlier post, my worries are about some components which are not being listed as being supported by Debian and though Debian got installed without hassles on my server, can I be confident that lack of support for some of the components like USB controller, LCP bridge, SMBus controller, etc. won't cause my server to go down in near future ? I am asking this question again because I've seen several machines go down abruptly in middle of operations and as this project is going to span entire country with OS being deployed by different implementation agencies so my concerns are much greater as I can't say anything about competency of different implementation agencies.
However if I am able to verify that a set of particular hardware components are working fine with Debian (well with a particular kernel) then I might be able to make a firm decision about procurement of the same.
Also, is there a way to find list of hardware components compatible with a particular kernel version. I saw a project on sourceforge which allows one to view list of pci devices compatible with Linux however I am not sure if that would be a correct way.
I also found modules.pcimap file on my system which contains list of different driver modules. However to map the device id to a particular device is something which seem like a hurriculane job to me. Also this would require me to first purchase a hardware and then verify it's compatibility against modules.pcimap. Is there a categorical list of hardware components supported by a particular kernel available on Internet ?
Thanks and regards, Mayank
On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 14:00 +0530, Mayank wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 12:29 PM, jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Mayank wrote:
My first worries are about purchase of hardware for this project and I am pretty much stuck up as no major vendor except HP is providing support for Debian and pushing the idea of installing a unsupported OS to top management would not be an easy task as well.
Firstly distros have very little to do with the hardware. It's the kernel which takes care. Secondly you will have to list out your hardware requirements particularly if its SAS or other specialised storage hardware. I am presuming the cpu is Intel / AMD. Thirdly you are pretty much up the creek with most of the specialised hardware unless the internal components are COTS "unbranded" stuff. Software will be the least of your issues after 3 years. Before that period anything works anyway. Fourthly if it's branded stuff check the SLAa very closely and compare costs. Most of the time the money spent on branded stuff and SLAs is a total waste.
CAVEAT EMPTOR: Your organisation has technically sound hardware and sysadmins around.
Can I consider the report displayed by http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl as final and dump my idea of installation of Debian or will the lack of support for some of the drivers won't have much effect on functioning of my system. This is the question which is worrying me the most as of now, because I don't want my servers to hang up in middle of operations at later stage and it would be really nice if someone can help me out on this front.
Lack of support is usually endemic to graphics, sound and hardware raid. On a server these are usually more a hindrance, consuming power unnecessarily. Rarely it's the sata / network phy devices.
Also check out coreboot / linuxbios. If your motherboard is listed as supported you dont have a worry in the world. This project gets rid of the bios and has linux as the bios - ya you dont even require a disk.
-- Rgds JTD -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Hi, Thanks for the information however as I've already mentioned in my earlier post, my worries are about some components which are not being listed as being supported by Debian and though Debian got installed without hassles on my server, can I be confident that lack of support for some of the components like USB controller, LCP bridge, SMBus controller, etc. won't cause my server to go down in near future ? I am asking this question again because I've seen several machines go down abruptly in middle of operations and as this project is going to span entire country with OS being deployed by different implementation agencies so my concerns are much greater as I can't say anything about competency of different implementation agencies.
However if I am able to verify that a set of particular hardware components are working fine with Debian (well with a particular kernel) then I might be able to make a firm decision about procurement of the same.
Also, is there a way to find list of hardware components compatible with a particular kernel version. I saw a project on sourceforge which allows one to view list of pci devices compatible with Linux however I am not sure if that would be a correct way.
I also found modules.pcimap file on my system which contains list of different driver modules. However to map the device id to a particular device is something which seem like a hurriculane job to me. Also this would require me to first purchase a hardware and then verify it's compatibility against modules.pcimap. Is there a categorical list of hardware components supported by a particular kernel available on Internet ?
Thanks and regards, Mayank
HI Mayank, I really dn't know about the intencity of your project or its scale. But Debian as well as ubuntu is deployed on many heavy projects at the server side. And I think the kind of hardware devices you were refering such as the USB controller etc are supported in the latest kernel versions. All in all You can be pritty confident about the server. If at all you are concerned then it will also be a good idea to consult some professional support provider for debian. There are a lot of them around in Mumbai as well.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Wednesday 09 Sep 2009 2:11:28 pm Krishnakant wrote:
I really dn't know about the intencity of your project or its scale. But Debian as well as ubuntu is deployed on many heavy projects at the server side. And I think the kind of hardware devices you were refering such as the USB controller etc are supported in the latest kernel versions. All in all You can be pritty confident about the server. If at all you are concerned then it will also be a good idea to consult some professional support provider for debian. There are a lot of them around in Mumbai as well.
one of them has already replied !
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Wednesday 09 Sep 2009 2:11:28 pm Krishnakant wrote:
I really dn't know about the intencity of your project or its scale. But Debian as well as ubuntu is deployed on many heavy projects at the server side. And I think the kind of hardware devices you were refering such as the USB controller etc are supported in the latest kernel versions. All in all You can be pritty confident about the server. If at all you are concerned then it will also be a good idea to consult some professional support provider for debian. There are a lot of them around in Mumbai as well.
one of them has already replied !
regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Thanks for the support. Just to state my concerns here is an e.g. I've a Dell Server with 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UHCI USB Controller. Now upon looking up on http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl I found that it was not supported. So if I was to look out for support for this device on a Linux kernel, then how am I supposed to go about the problem. And like this there are several other devices like PCI Express to PCI X Bridge, LPC bridge etc. for which I am unable to verify availability of support. So how do I go about finding support for these hardware components ? And yet another question would be "Are these components really critical for normal server operations ?"
As for seeking support from third party is concerned, that won't be possible because in that case I'd rather opt for RedHat or Suse which already provide support for their products. Sorry to disappoint anyone if this statement did so :)
Regards, Mayank
On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 14:16 +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Wednesday 09 Sep 2009 2:11:28 pm Krishnakant wrote:
I really dn't know about the intencity of your project or its scale. But Debian as well as ubuntu is deployed on many heavy projects at the server side. And I think the kind of hardware devices you were refering such as the USB controller etc are supported in the latest kernel versions. All in all You can be pritty confident about the server. If at all you are concerned then it will also be a good idea to consult some professional support provider for debian. There are a lot of them around in Mumbai as well.
one of them has already replied !
Ah yes, I wonder how I missed out on that. Only thing is we can expect a few more to reply.
happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 14:34 +0530, Mayank wrote:
Thanks for the support. Just to state my concerns here is an e.g. I've a Dell Server with 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UHCI USB Controller. Now upon looking up on http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl I found that it was not supported. So if I was to look out for support for this device on a Linux kernel, then how am I supposed to go about the problem. And like this there are several other devices like PCI Express to PCI X Bridge, LPC bridge etc. for which I am unable to verify availability of support. So how do I go about finding support for these hardware components ? And yet another question would be "Are these components really critical for normal server operations ?"
Well, At times the commertial companies for their commertial reasons don't announce support for a certain device or even an entire chipset. I had this experience with asus 945 motherboard. When I called the fokes the streight away told me "linux won't work on our boards " but I was suggested by ronny, one of our lug members to use that board and by words! it worked absolutely fine!. I needed to put one commertial driver for the high resolution display but that too was easily available. Even when that driver was not used the board worked perfectly on 3 machines (thanks ronny). This was against what the Asus guys told me. So what is the moral or the story?
As for seeking support from third party is concerned, that won't be possible because in that case I'd rather opt for RedHat or Suse which already provide support for their products. Sorry to disappoint anyone if this statement did so :)
I don't think that will really disappoint any one because no one would want another distro war on the list :).
happy hacking. Krishnakant.
Hi Mayank,
On 09/09/2009 10:56 AM, Mayank wrote:
Hi, Maybe the question has been asked already and I could find one of the [...snip...] I know that's more of a management issue then technical but if there is someway through which I can find compatibility of Debian with different servers provided by various vendors (primarily HP, Dell and IBM) then it would be really helpful for me in decision making.
I don't know about Debian in particular, but in general if any one distro. supports some hardware, it is quite likely that all of them do. Especially since hardware support is (mostly) a kernel issue. Here I am assuming that with support you mean: - The device is recognized by the OS - There is application software that allows you to use the recognized device (device support normally comes into the kernel much before applications capable of making use of the device appear) - The drivers+applications are not proprietary (which implies availability and support only from the vendor).
I tried to install Debian 5.0 on a HCL Infinity Global Line 2700 series server and the installation went hassle free, however when I did lspci -n and tried to verify the compatibility using the web based utility provided at http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl I was surprised to see several hardware components as not being supported. Can I consider the report displayed by http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl as final and dump my idea of installation of Debian
Well, considering what you wrote in your other mail, i think you are barking up the wrong tree ...that page has a very clear disclaimer: """ * This database uses the PCI map of Debian kernel 2.6.30-1-686 . * The result does NOT guarantee your hardware works perfectly. * This database only verifies the PCI devices at this time. X drivers, ISA, USB, IEEE1394 or any other devices are out of the focus. """" So, not only is it kernel version and architecture specific, it tests only PCI devices (not USB, which is what you were looking at) by looking at the PCI Ids.
I would not take that page as a final word, although it might help in filtering out some of your options.
or will the lack of support for some of the drivers won't have much effect on functioning of my system. This is the question which is worrying me the most as of now, because I don't want my servers to hang up in middle of operations at later stage and it would be really nice if someone can help me out on this front.
Lack of support for components that are non-essential to your server operations obviously will not have any effect on the functioning of your system. Even in the worst case scenario, where you might have limited or experimental support for some non-essential hardware, it is easy to disable loading of those specific modules to ensure that they do not affect the system negatively.
Also if possible please let me know how to find which all hardware is supported by a specific kernel. For e.g. I'm using kernel 2.6.22-3-486 and would like to know which all hardware components does it support. If there is someway to find a categorical list of such hardware components then that would be lot more helpful.
I think you are going about it the wrong way. The linux kernel these days has support for the largest number of devices compared to any other OS[1]. So, I would recommend that you first decide on your hardware and that check to see the state of the support (a first step would be to check the various HCL lists[2] and maybe also ask here).
cheers, - steve
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2SED6sewRw [2] https://hardware.redhat.com/ http://www.ubuntuhcl.org/ http://en.opensuse.org/Hardware
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:22 PM, steve steve@lonetwin.net wrote:
Hi Mayank,
On 09/09/2009 10:56 AM, Mayank wrote:
Hi, Maybe the question has been asked already and I could find one of
the
[...snip...] I know that's more of a management issue then technical but if there is someway through which I
can
find compatibility of Debian with different servers provided by various vendors (primarily HP, Dell and IBM) then it would be really helpful for
me
in decision making.
I don't know about Debian in particular, but in general if any one distro. supports some hardware, it is quite likely that all of them do. Especially since hardware support is (mostly) a kernel issue. Here I am assuming that with support you mean:
- The device is recognized by the OS
- There is application software that allows you to use the recognized
device (device support normally comes into the kernel much before applications capable of making use of the device appear)
- The drivers+applications are not proprietary (which implies availability
and support only from the vendor).
I tried to install Debian 5.0 on a HCL Infinity Global Line 2700 series server and the installation went hassle free, however
when
I did lspci -n and tried to verify the compatibility using the web based utility provided at http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl I was surprised to see several hardware components as not being supported. Can I consider the report displayed by http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl as final and dump my idea
of
installation of Debian
Well, considering what you wrote in your other mail, i think you are barking up the wrong tree ...that page has a very clear disclaimer: """ * This database uses the PCI map of Debian kernel 2.6.30-1-686 . * The result does NOT guarantee your hardware works perfectly. * This database only verifies the PCI devices at this time. X drivers, ISA, USB, IEEE1394 or any other devices are out of the focus. """" So, not only is it kernel version and architecture specific, it tests only PCI devices (not USB, which is what you were looking at) by looking at the PCI Ids.
I would not take that page as a final word, although it might help in filtering out some of your options.
or will the lack of support for some of the drivers won't have much effect on functioning of my system. This is the question which is worrying me the most as of now, because I don't want my servers
to
hang up in middle of operations at later stage and it would be really
nice
if someone can help me out on this front.
Lack of support for components that are non-essential to your server operations obviously will not have any effect on the functioning of your system. Even in the worst case scenario, where you might have limited or experimental support for some non-essential hardware, it is easy to disable loading of those specific modules to ensure that they do not affect the system negatively.
Also if possible please let me know how to find which all hardware is supported by a specific kernel. For e.g. I'm using kernel 2.6.22-3-486
and
would like to know which all hardware components does it support. If
there
is someway to find a categorical list of such hardware components then
that
would be lot more helpful.
I think you are going about it the wrong way. The linux kernel these days has support for the largest number of devices compared to any other OS[1]. So, I would recommend that you first decide on your hardware and that check to see the state of the support (a first step would be to check the various HCL lists[2] and maybe also ask here).
cheers,
- steve
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2SED6sewRw [2] https://hardware.redhat.com/ http://www.ubuntuhcl.org/ http://en.opensuse.org/Hardware -- random non tech spiel: http://lonetwin.blogspot.com/ tech randomness: http://lonehacks.blogspot.com/ what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Thanks Steve and Krishnakumar for sharing your thoughts.
@Steve
1. What I'd mentioned was a USB Controller and not a USB device and thus I think it does not fall under USB device category.
2. Thanks for providing link for http://www.ubuntuhcl.org. This is the kind of list I was looking out for.
3. You made a point that if hardware is supported by a particular kernel then it doesn't matter which distribution we choose. Does that mean, if a vendor claims that their server is compatible with say Redhat Enterprise Linux 4.0, and I find of kernel version for RHEL 4.0 and install a Debian Linux with same kernel version than everything should work out of the box as happened in case of RHEL 4.0 ?
Thanks and regards, Mayank
Hi,
--- On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Mayankmail2mayank@gmail.com wrote: | 1. What I'd mentioned was a USB Controller and not a USB device and thus I | think it does not fall under USB device category. --
First, some terminology.
USB is a master/slave protocol, so there is a controller on the host (PC or laptop) and on the device side. So, I am not sure which 'USB controller' you are referring to in the above.
--- | if a | vendor claims that their server is compatible with say Redhat Enterprise | Linux 4.0, and I find of kernel version for RHEL 4.0 and install a Debian | Linux with same kernel version than everything should work out of the box as | happened in case of RHEL 4.0 ? --
USB, PCI have standards, and the Linux kernel and drivers follow the standard for their implementation. So, if you do install a stock kernel, or a distro (patched) kernel it should work because they follow the standards.
Exceptions are product or hardware chips from vendors who have deviated from the standards or done workarounds that are not published for Linux device driver developers to implement the same.
SK
On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 15:34 +0530, Mayank wrote:
Thanks Steve and Krishnakumar for sharing your thoughts.
@Steve
- What I'd mentioned was a USB Controller and not a USB device and thus I
think it does not fall under USB device category.
- Thanks for providing link for http://www.ubuntuhcl.org. This is the kind
of list I was looking out for.
- You made a point that if hardware is supported by a particular kernel
then it doesn't matter which distribution we choose. Does that mean, if a vendor claims that their server is compatible with say Redhat Enterprise Linux 4.0, and I find of kernel version for RHEL 4.0 and install a Debian Linux with same kernel version than everything should work out of the box as happened in case of RHEL 4.0 ?
Thanks and regards, Mayank
Mayank, You raised a very good question. Look, there are different distros because the makers of those distros have slightly different thought process going when they build one.
So even though a kernel supports a certain device, it may happen that a certain distro is not using that kernel version. Even more even a slight change in the last digits of the kernel version might mean a lot. Over and above this, some distros will provide extra non-free (as in freedom) but still free of cost drivers which are not actually the part of the core kernel. I am saying this in context or a few distros. So if your distro does not have that driver by default it may just imply that you will have to download it and compile it your self. Secondly, I think you must do a good test run if your server by keeping steves instructions in mind. There might be some non-essential components of your hardware and its always better to disable the kernel support for such devices. If you are having any experience of kernel compilation then you can download the kernel source for your distro and do a make menuconfig and then look at what all is available in the menu.
Hope this helps.
Happy hacking. Krishnakant.
Hey Mayank,
On 09/09/2009 03:34 PM, Mayank wrote:
@Steve
- What I'd mentioned was a USB Controller and not a USB device and thus I
think it does not fall under USB device category.
Oh sorry, I re-read your mail and realized my mistake. I find it rather hard to believe a USB controller is not actually supported (which leads me to doubt the results of that page).
- Thanks for providing link for http://www.ubuntuhcl.org. This is the kind
of list I was looking out for.
You are welcome. Here is a hcl meta-list :): http://www.linux-drivers.org/
- You made a point that if hardware is supported by a particular kernel
then it doesn't matter which distribution we choose. Does that mean, if a vendor claims that their server is compatible with say Redhat Enterprise Linux 4.0, and I find of kernel version for RHEL 4.0 and install a Debian Linux with same kernel version than everything should work out of the box as happened in case of RHEL 4.0 ?
Pretty much. The things you need to be aware about are: a. The differences in the kernel config (ie: the difference in /boot/config-`uname -r` file). This describes which drivers are built-in into the kernel, which have been built as modules and what is just left out. Again here it is not expected that you to know what /all/ the parameters mean, so just knowing whether there are changes in the drivers/config options that are relevant for your hardware should be sufficient.
b. The 'proprietary' drivers that individual distributions recommend/support.
cheers, - steve
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 4:03 PM, steve steve@lonetwin.net wrote:
Hey Mayank,
On 09/09/2009 03:34 PM, Mayank wrote:
@Steve
- What I'd mentioned was a USB Controller and not a USB device and thus
I
think it does not fall under USB device category.
Oh sorry, I re-read your mail and realized my mistake. I find it rather hard to believe a USB controller is not actually supported (which leads me to doubt the results of that page).
- Thanks for providing link for http://www.ubuntuhcl.org. This is the
kind
of list I was looking out for.
You are welcome. Here is a hcl meta-list :): http://www.linux-drivers.org/
- You made a point that if hardware is supported by a particular kernel
then it doesn't matter which distribution we choose. Does that mean, if a vendor claims that their server is compatible with say Redhat Enterprise Linux 4.0, and I find of kernel version for RHEL 4.0 and install a Debian Linux with same kernel version than everything should work out of the box
as
happened in case of RHEL 4.0 ?
Pretty much. The things you need to be aware about are: a. The differences in the kernel config (ie: the difference in /boot/config-`uname -r` file). This describes which drivers are built-in into the kernel, which have been built as modules and what is just left out. Again here it is not expected that you to know what /all/ the parameters mean, so just knowing whether there are changes in the drivers/config options that are relevant for your hardware should be sufficient.
b. The 'proprietary' drivers that individual distributions recommend/support.
cheers,
- steve
-- random non tech spiel: http://lonetwin.blogspot.com/ tech randomness: http://lonehacks.blogspot.com/ what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Thanks everyone for enlightening me on this issue. I'll try to find some hardware components in the HCL and then will prepare a tender for the same (hope I get multiple vendors else I'm into serious problems of single vendor locking). Once hardware is in place I'll try to get OS installed and work out my way towards final deployment of application. In case of any troubles will bug u in future :)
@Shakthi : I was talking of controller on PC end cauz' this is the controller that OS is going to interact with. And you are right in stating that many vendors deviate from standards to build their product and it can create problems.
Regards, Mayank
On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Mayank wrote:
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@au-kbc.org wrote:
On Wednesday 09 Sep 2009 2:11:28 pm Krishnakant wrote:
I really dn't know about the intencity of your project or its scale. But Debian as well as ubuntu is deployed on many heavy projects at the server side. And I think the kind of hardware devices you were refering such as the USB controller etc are supported in the latest kernel versions. All in all You can be pritty confident about the server. If at all you are concerned then it will also be a good idea to consult some professional support provider for debian. There are a lot of them around in Mumbai as well.
one of them has already replied !
regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
Thanks for the support. Just to state my concerns here is an e.g. I've a Dell Server with 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UHCI USB Controller. Now upon looking up on http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl I found that it was not supported. So if I was to look out for support for this device on a Linux kernel, then how am I supposed to go about the problem. And like this there are several other devices like PCI Express to PCI X Bridge, LPC bridge etc. for which I am unable to verify availability of support. So how do I go about finding support for these hardware components ?
You first findout what the kernel supports, then buy the server. The reverse order will spell disaster.
And yet another question would be "Are these components really critical for normal server operations ?"
Usb usually (yet to come across one that does not work flawlessly) works. PCIE and PCIX will be important IF you are adding on some card. Again it works most of the time. LPC bridge only if you want to reprogram your bios natively on linux, which is a complicated affair atleast for me.
As for seeking support from third party is concerned, that won't be possible because in that case I'd rather opt for RedHat or Suse which already provide support for their products.
If they can provide "support", then the kernel already has the relevant driver.
Sorry to disappoint anyone if this statement did so :)
Sob sniffle and i thought i was going to get rich and retire to Kerala.
On Wednesday 09 Sep 2009, Mayank wrote:
Thanks for the support. Just to state my concerns here is an e.g. I've a Dell Server with 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UHCI USB Controller. Now upon looking up on http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl I found that it was not supported.
I visited the site you have listed above. It clearly states and I quote "This database only verifies the PCI devices at this time. X drivers, ISA, USB, IEEE1394 or any other devices are out of the focus."
Besides, I consider the kernel source to be final say in what is supported and not supported; not some site which may not be complete in it's functionality.
So if I was to look out for support for this device on a Linux kernel, then how am I supposed to go about the problem.
[1] Make a list of the chipsets you are interested in; download the latest kernel (www.kernel.org) and go through the documentation or go through the exercise "make menuconfig" for the kernel and examine all the devices it presents to you and see if you are hardware is in the list. Also note that some drivers may support multiple incarnation of a chip.
And like this there are several other devices like PCI Express to PCI X Bridge, LPC bridge etc. for which I am unable to verify availability of support. So how do I go about finding support for these hardware components ?
See [1] above.
And yet another question would be "Are these components really critical for normal server operations ?"
It depends on the component!
As for seeking support from third party is concerned, that won't be possible because in that case I'd rather opt for RedHat or Suse which already provide support for their products. Sorry to disappoint
To the best of my understanding Redhat/Novell will not give you installation support directly - most likely you will have to hook with one of their partners. Besides, if your hardware is not in their HCL then you are back at square one. As already mentioned, this has more to do with the kernel rather than the distro.
IMO, your best bet is to work with the hardware vendor to get an eval piece and test your favourite distro on it with the latest kernel. The big guys may may do this if your order is large enough. In my case, I generally work with local system integrators who are more likely to work with you than the branded ones; plus you can specify the "best in class" components rather than the branded vendors dictating to you what you will get for your money (which is the typical case BTW).
HTH
Mayank wrote:
Thanks for the support. Just to state my concerns here is an e.g. I've a Dell Server with 631xESB/632xESB/3100 Chipset UHCI USB Controller. Now upon looking up on http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl I found that it was not supported.
You could directly ckeck out user experiences per distro on google for branded products.
Mayank wrote:
- What I'd mentioned was a USB Controller and not a USB device and thus I
think it does not fall under USB device category.
- Thanks for providing link for http://www.ubuntuhcl.org. This is the kind
of list I was looking out for.
- You made a point that if hardware is supported by a particular kernel
then it doesn't matter which distribution we choose. Does that mean, if a vendor claims that their server is compatible with say Redhat Enterprise Linux 4.0, and I find of kernel version for RHEL 4.0 and install a Debian Linux with same kernel version than everything should work out of the box as happened in case of RHEL 4.0 ?
Hi. Snip out the long older text to the relevant part. For the server setup you should be more concerned with hard disk support especially types of RAID supported. Next important thing is the network card. These 2 things can give you a lot of trouble if not supported properly. You don't need sound or high resol graphics drivers for a server. USB is generally supported easily.
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Arun Khan -
jtd -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Krishnakant -
Mayank -
Rony -
Shakthi Kannan -
steve