Just to notify everyone on this list. If the list admin notices someone abusing the list guidelines, that person is mailed off-list. Also note that there are multiple list admins, and as far as possible they try to react in the same way to a particular action. At the same time, keep in mind that they are human and some things might slip through especially if one is too busy to pay attention to the list for some time.
Philip
PS: I am not the list-admin any more :)
On 6/5/05, Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
Just to notify everyone on this list. If the list admin notices someone abusing the list guidelines, that person is mailed off-list. Also note that there are multiple list admins, and as far as possible they try to react in the same way to a particular action. At the same time, keep in mind that they are human and some things might slip through especially if one is too busy to pay attention to the list for some time.
Philip
My two cents on this topic -
I have posted 3 messages on Sat. 4/6 using a different email handle "knura@yahoo.com" which is registered on this list. I got bounce message that it was awaiting moderator approval. Today is Monday 6/6 and the messages have not appeared on this list as of 08:45.
I would appreciate if the list admins would identify themselves and also clarify a few points below:
1. When some one registers to this list, neither in the registration page nor the welcome message is it mentioned that postings to the list are moderatred for the new registrant. I personally think this non-disclosure is inconsistent with what Linux/OSS stand for. In the past 15+ years I have been a member of many moderated/unmoderated lists (including being a list admin myself on a few). Of all of them, in my experience, this list and the Bangalore LUG list are 2 instances that moderate postings w/o prior disclosure of such practice. This suggests that you do *not trust* the judgement of the posters and therefore you need to "police" them before they receive your stamp of approval (against what established criteria?). This tantamounts to "You are guilty, you need to prove your innocence." IMO, if postings are moderated then each and every posting should be moderated regardless of the status/standing of the poster in this user community. Otherwise, a duly registered person should be able to post to the list w/o any moderator approval.
To handle abuse (occassional cases), allow 3 strikes (or whatever is deemed appropriate) and block the user from the list - again it should be disclosed. The moderators should not consider themselves above the rules.
2. If indeed you feel strongly about initial "policing" then disclose it fully in the sign up page as well as the welcome message. In the case of my postings, I have no clue when the moderator will approve them. There ought to be a timer, whereby if none of the moderator's react, then the posting is automatically approved.
3. I suggest a couple of additional lists. "announce" for job postings, meetings, etc., "shoot the wind" for OT discussions.
Thanks for your time.
rgds, akk
Sometime Today, AK cobbled together some glyphs to say:
suggests that you do *not trust* the judgement of the posters and therefore you need to "police" them before they receive your stamp of
That is correct. Until last year this list was unmoderated. We turned on moderation for new users after more than 50% of users showed an inability to understand the list rules mailed to them when they joined. I was the moderator until three months ago.
Once a user displays that he understands the rules, he is taken off moderation. There are instances of people who have been taken off moderation within a day of joining, and there are instances of people who are never taken off moderation. There are also instances of people who are put on moderation at a later date for abusing the rules.
Agreed, the list message was not changed when the policy changed.
- I suggest a couple of additional lists. "announce" for job
postings, meetings, etc., "shoot the wind" for OT discussions.
This has been discussed on the list at least once a year, and it turns out that only a handful of users are actually interested in this. We try to keep the list open to most things, and ask that people use subject tags for commercial, announcements and OT mails. This allows other users to filter mails based on these tags. It's like having multiple lists within the same list :)
Philip
On 6/6/05, Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote: ...snip...
Once a user displays that he understands the rules, he is taken off moderation. There are instances of people who have been taken off moderation within a day of joining, and there are instances of people who are never taken off moderation. There are also instances of people who are put on moderation at a later date for abusing the rules.
Agreed, the list message was not changed when the policy changed.
Moderators: Please change the welcome message and the web sign up page to reflect your policy. That is all I am asking - disclosure of your policies. At present the disclosure is missing.
The disclosure statement, at most, would be a paragraph and should not take a long time to formulate. If you identify the moderators, I will send a draft to them directly.
Also, when the member is moderated, there should be a reasonable time (IMO 12-24 hours) within which the message is either approved and posted to the list or rejected with a valid reason to the poster.
In my case, the 3 messages were posted on Sat. 6/3 and I am still awaiting moderator approval on them. This is *not* good.
rgds, akk
On 6/6/05, Arun Khan arunkha@gmail.com wrote:
In my case, the 3 messages were posted on Sat. 6/3 and I am still awaiting moderator approval on them. This is *not* good.
Arun which 3 messages are you referring to? I can see few of your messages
posted here: http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week-of-Mon-20050530/date.html.
Regards - Asit.
Sometime on Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 04:01:10PM +0530, Arun Khan said:
Moderators: Please change the welcome message and the web sign up page to reflect your policy. That is all I am asking - disclosure of your policies. At present the disclosure is missing.
Hello Arun,
list members remain on moderation if: 1) They are a newly registered member. 2) They top post while replying.
Apart from this, if size of the reply is larger than 7kb then also their message will be rejected. These are the only broad criteria for moderation.
On an average about 10 emails are rejected every week for not following guidelines, especially for top posting.
The disclosure statement, at most, would be a paragraph and should not take a long time to formulate. If you identify the moderators, I will send a draft to them directly.
You may contact the human owner at linuxers-owner at mm.ilug-bom.org.in
On Tuesday 07 Jun 2005 3:03 pm, Linuxers Admin wrote:
You may contact the human owner at
~~~~~~~~ y mean this message is from a non-human -:)
Philip Tellis wrote:
Philip, where do you get all those quotes from and how do you automatically choose a new one in your sig. everytime? :)
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
On Monday 06 Jun 2005 11:15 pm, Rony Bill wrote:
Philip Tellis wrote:
Philip, where do you get all those quotes from and how do you automatically choose a new one in your sig. everytime? :)
its a game called fortune - and it augers ill for this list for a senior member to engage in message recycling
--- Kenneth Gonsalves lawgon@thenilgiris.com wrote:
On Monday 06 Jun 2005 11:15 pm, Rony Bill wrote:
Philip Tellis wrote:
Philip, where do you get all those quotes from and
how do you
automatically choose a new one in your sig.
everytime? :)
its a game called fortune - and it augers ill for this list for a senior member to engage in message recycling -- regards kg
It would also require an MUA which is capable of generating signatures from a command (like fortune linuxcookie). I use Evolution which is capable of doing this. But the problem is with whitespace. If I want a signature like...
Regards,
Nadiem.
<dynamic quote here>
...it comes out as...
Regards,Nadiem<dynamic quote here>
I tried using /n, -e and all that, but no go. Any solutions?
Regards,
Nadiem.
__________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
Sometime Today, N cobbled together some glyphs to say:
from a command (like fortune linuxcookie). I use Evolution which is capable of doing this. But the problem is with whitespace. If I want a
Would you believe that this is the primary reason that I do not use Evolution, Thunderbird and gmail as my preferred email applications?
--- Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
Sometime Today, N cobbled together some glyphs to say:
from a command (like fortune linuxcookie). I use
Evolution which is
capable of doing this. But the problem is with
whitespace. If I want a
Would you believe that this is the primary reason that I do not use Evolution, Thunderbird and gmail as my preferred email applications?
Which one do you use then? Your headers don't indicate any X-Mailer.
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
its a game called fortune - and it augers ill for this list for a senior member to engage in message recycling
I did not understand your mail nor the one by Tahir. I just wanted to know where Philip gets the various quotes and it was in reply to his mail containing the signature quotes. Unfortunately the quotes did not appear in the reply.
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
On Tuesday 07 Jun 2005 11:38 pm, Rony Bill wrote:
Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
its a game called fortune - and it augers ill for this list for a senior member to engage in message recycling
I did not understand your mail nor the one by Tahir. I just wanted to know where Philip gets the various quotes and it was in reply to his mail containing the signature quotes. Unfortunately the quotes did not appear in the reply.
as i said - there is a programme called fortune - in older linux distros it used to be there by default under /usr/games/fortune. Nowadays you have to install it and interface it with your mail software. It will create the quotes.
As to the second part of my mail, when you want to branch out to a new topic please start a new thread with a fresh subject line. If you want to know why this has to be done, check this out:
http://mm.bbspals.org/general/message-recycling.html
On 6/5/05, Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
Just to notify everyone on this list. If the list admin notices someone abusing the list guidelines, that person is mailed off-list. Also note
toning down any inappropriate behaviour openly and *politely* also acts as a reminder to other members who may be new or simply unaware of the rules. thats all, its not a personal attack.
that there are multiple list admins, and as far as possible they try to react in the same way to a particular action. At the same time, keep in mind that they are human and some things might slip through especially if one is too busy to pay attention to the list for some time.
i do think that having a clear policy on the lug-list web page is important to prevent ambiguity which is why some members are protesting. it should not be abused to serve as a free unsolicited advertising space.
PS: I am not the list-admin any more :)
btw, your name still features on the info page (as on Mon Jun 06 @11.45 pm :)
Sometime Today, S cobbled together some glyphs to say:
toning down any inappropriate behaviour openly and *politely* also acts as a reminder to other members who may be new or simply unaware
We tried that before. People got offended.
btw, your name still features on the info page (as on Mon Jun 06 @11.45 pm :)
That will remain. Mailman has no way to specify a list of people who will receive all moderator/list-owner mails but not really be list admins. We do that by only giving the password to specific people. I don't have the password at this moment.
On 6/7/05, Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
Mailman has no way to specify a list of people who will receive all moderator/list-owner mails but not really be list admins. We do that by only giving the password to specific people. I don't have the password at this moment.
after an admin signs in , .... Configuration Categories > passwords > Change list ownership passwords , .. This will split the list ownership duties into administrators and moderators.
Sometime Today, S cobbled together some glyphs to say:
after an admin signs in , .... Configuration Categories > passwords > Change list ownership passwords , .. This will split the list ownership duties into administrators and moderators.
And how does that help? I need to receive all mails that all administrators/moderators receive, but I must not do anything about them.
IAC, the problem was with my address showing up on the listinfo page. Is there any way to take it off there while still getting mails to me?
On 6/7/05, Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
And how does that help? I need to receive all mails that all administrators/moderators receive, but I must not do anything about them.
IAC, the problem was with my address showing up on the listinfo page. Is there any way to take it off there while still getting mails to me?
am not sure what you mean here by "not do anything about them" ??? i assume you are a moderator so if you want to be taken off this duty, only the admin (owner) can do that after which you wont get any bounces or requests mail.
On Mon, June 6, 2005 8:30 pm, Svaksh said:
i do think that having a clear policy on the lug-list web page is important to prevent ambiguity which is why some members are protesting. it should not be abused to serve as a free unsolicited advertising space.
List members may send their feedback regarding the website to me or webmaster@ilug-bom.org.in
Anurag
On 6/7/05, Anurag anurag@bsd.miki.eu.org wrote:
List members may send their feedback regarding the website to me or webmaster@ilug-bom.org.in
i am posting it to the general list since i believe each member should have the freedom to contribute and speakup freely. some suggestions for the policy list .....
1] name-calling, and /or flaming by other members should not be permitted. the policy should define this clearly and state and implement what action (with time duration) will be taken against any member if they persist or repeat. there should also be a policy on how to deal with members who overstep after the "watching period" has elapsed.
2] include a link to the policy/guidelines page for each outgoing message as a signature line.
3] if there is a change in rules it should be put forth to the whole community for their feedback.
4] seperate the general lists for as linux help-line, commercial, news , etc...
Sometime Today, S cobbled together some glyphs to say:
4] seperate the general lists for as linux help-line, commercial, news
we ran a poll on the list a couple of years ago, and the consensus was that no one wanted a split list. Our traffic is also extremely low to warrant multiple lists.
-
Anurag -
Arun Khan -
Asit Vadhavkar -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Linuxers Admin -
Nadiem -
Philip Tellis -
Rony Bill -
Svaksh