Hi all,
Nandan Nilekani is to start the process of issuing every Indian citizen an identity card. But are the platform/readers and so on based on open source standards, such that you or I can verify that it doesn't have flaws or hidden backdoors which can be misused?
I couldn't find anything on Google. Anyone has any ideas?
Thanks, Nikhil
On Sat, 2009-06-27 at 17:58 +0530, Nikhil Marathe wrote:
Hi all,
Nandan Nilekani is to start the process of issuing every Indian citizen an identity card.
hmm, so Infi is starting a new business on a large scale? nice way to solve the resession problem by doing money minting like this.
But are the platform/readers and so on based on open source standards, such that you or I can verify that it doesn't have flaws or hidden backdoors which can be misused?
The issue is not open source.
Even if they use it, they can still make the entire process closed and proprietory. Don't forget that infi *only* means business. And what ever they do under "corporate Social Responsibilities " is some thing like the old Hindi phrase "nauso chuhe kha ke billi hagh ko chali ".
happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Nikhil Marathensm.nikhil@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
Nandan Nilekani is to start the process of issuing every Indian citizen an identity card. But are the platform/readers and so on based on open source standards, such that you or I can verify that it doesn't have flaws or hidden backdoors which can be misused?
I couldn't find anything on Google. Anyone has any ideas?
Thanks, Nikhil
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Roshankubunturos@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Nikhil Marathe wrote:
Nandan Nilekani is to start the process of issuing every Indian citizen an identity card.
A very ambitious project and one that rather would have more of IT coming into governance, hopefully not 'bound' to Microsoft Internet Explorer. :P
But are the platform/readers and so on based on open source standards, such that you or I can verify that it doesn't have flaws or hidden backdoors which can be misused?
I couldn't find anything on Google. Anyone has any ideas?
Two ways to think about it. One: If it has to do more business, earn more money for stakeholders, get more "so-called" cheap labour, then it'll go the Microsoft Way! The three IT biggies have Microsoft everywhere! Don't they? XP runs irrespective of the needs and usage of the person using the computer. Perhaps, 'volume-licensing-costs' helps. ;)
Two: If the costs incurred have to be less, have some amount of "voluntary" developers work on relatively lower costs, use Open Source Software (free software :P, note the "f" ) and make 1 out of 2,00,000 people happy, it will be rather "open" software not bounded to a OS / browser.
Just an opinion! I would love to see more opinions and/or comments on this! I'm waiting for more ideas to pour in ;) -- Roshan Baladhanvi
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Krishnakantkrmane@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2009-06-27 at 17:58 +0530, Nikhil Marathe wrote:
Hi all,
Nandan Nilekani is to start the process of issuing every Indian citizen an identity card.
hmm, so Infi is starting a new business on a large scale? nice way to solve the resession problem by doing money minting like this.
But are the platform/readers and so on based on open source standards, such that you or I can verify that it doesn't have flaws or hidden backdoors which can be misused?
The issue is not open source.
Even if they use it, they can still make the entire process closed and proprietory. Don't forget that infi *only* means business. And what ever they do under "corporate Social Responsibilities " is some thing like the old Hindi phrase "nauso chuhe kha ke billi hagh ko chali ".
happy hacking. Krishnakant.
Krishnakant:This is not being done by Infy,rather Nandan Nilekani has resigned from Infy and taken up responsibilities in government.
BTW,nice to know I'm not the only one who's concerned about the potential implications of the database et al being buggy Microsoft software.I was wondering if I was becoming paranoid.
IMO,the main issue is whether the database holding the details of name,address,fingerprints etc is fully secure.Apparently after everything is said and done,NIC will take over administration of the database.Considering that they can't even build websites compatible with multiple browsers,and reports of Chinese cracking Defence,Home,Intelligence agencies websites,emails et al are very regular,I wonder what would be the fate if a terrorist organization would crack this database and create an artificial ID and wreak havoc.
I think we need a national conversation in the FOSS space on this,consequently I'm forwarding this to Pune LUG too.
Regards, Easwar Registered Linux user #442065
Easwar,
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Easwar Hariharanmeindian523@gmail.com wrote:
Krishnakant:This is not being done by Infy,rather Nandan Nilekani has resigned from Infy and taken up responsibilities in government.
BTW,nice to know I'm not the only one who's concerned about the potential implications of the database et al being buggy Microsoft software.I was wondering if I was becoming paranoid.
IMO,the main issue is whether the database holding the details of name,address,fingerprints etc is fully secure.Apparently after everything is said and done,NIC will take over administration of the database.Considering that they can't even build websites compatible with multiple browsers,and reports of Chinese cracking Defence,Home,Intelligence agencies websites,emails et al are very regular,I wonder what would be the fate if a terrorist organization would crack this database and create an artificial ID and wreak havoc.
I think we need a national conversation in the FOSS space on this,consequently I'm forwarding this to Pune LUG too.
I have put together a blog post that may interest you.
http://dineshah.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/citizen-identification-system/
I don't think any Indian LUG has enough muscle or clout to make an iota of change policy decision.
Remember Indian LUGs are not Pirate Party of Sweden. :-)
Regards, Easwar Registered Linux user #442065
With regards,
2009/6/28 Dinesh Shah (દિનેશ શાહ/दिनेश शाह) dineshah@gmail.com:
Easwar,
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Easwar Hariharanmeindian523@gmail.com wrote:
Krishnakant:This is not being done by Infy,rather Nandan Nilekani has resigned from Infy and taken up responsibilities in government.
BTW,nice to know I'm not the only one who's concerned about the potential implications of the database et al being buggy Microsoft software.I was wondering if I was becoming paranoid.
IMO,the main issue is whether the database holding the details of name,address,fingerprints etc is fully secure.Apparently after everything is said and done,NIC will take over administration of the database.Considering that they can't even build websites compatible with multiple browsers,and reports of Chinese cracking Defence,Home,Intelligence agencies websites,emails et al are very regular,I wonder what would be the fate if a terrorist organization would crack this database and create an artificial ID and wreak havoc.
I think we need a national conversation in the FOSS space on this,consequently I'm forwarding this to Pune LUG too.
I have put together a blog post that may interest you.
http://dineshah.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/citizen-identification-system/
I don't think any Indian LUG has enough muscle or clout to make an iota of change policy decision.
I didn't say a single Indian LUG.I meant to involve people who DO have clout,which is possible when the discussion reaches the maximum number of people. :)
Remember Indian LUGs are not Pirate Party of Sweden. :-)
Regards, Easwar Registered Linux user #442065
Regards, Easwar Registered Linux user #442065
I don't think the scale of this operation will allow them to go with M$. Or open source(do we have any database battle tested for such an operation). It is IBM with it's DB2 which may provide the backend. Just guessing.
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Easwar Hariharan meindian523@gmail.comwrote:
2009/6/28 Dinesh Shah (દિનેશ શાહ/दिनेश शाह) dineshah@gmail.com:
Easwar,
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Easwar Hariharanmeindian523@gmail.com
wrote:
Krishnakant:This is not being done by Infy,rather Nandan Nilekani has resigned from Infy and taken up responsibilities in government.
BTW,nice to know I'm not the only one who's concerned about the potential implications of the database et al being buggy Microsoft software.I was wondering if I was becoming paranoid.
IMO,the main issue is whether the database holding the details of name,address,fingerprints etc is fully secure.Apparently after everything is said and done,NIC will take over administration of the database.Considering that they can't even build websites compatible with multiple browsers,and reports of Chinese cracking Defence,Home,Intelligence agencies websites,emails et al are very regular,I wonder what would be the fate if a terrorist organization would crack this database and create an artificial ID and wreak havoc.
I think we need a national conversation in the FOSS space on this,consequently I'm forwarding this to Pune LUG too.
I have put together a blog post that may interest you.
http://dineshah.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/citizen-identification-system/
I don't think any Indian LUG has enough muscle or clout to make an iota of change policy decision.
I didn't say a single Indian LUG.I meant to involve people who DO have clout,which is possible when the discussion reaches the maximum number of people. :)
Remember Indian LUGs are not Pirate Party of Sweden. :-)
Regards, Easwar Registered Linux user #442065
Regards, Easwar Registered Linux user #442065 -- http://mm.glug-bom.org/mailman/listinfo/linuxers
On Sun, 2009-06-28 at 14:47 +0530, Easwar Hariharan wrote:
2009/6/28 Dinesh Shah (દિનેશ શાહ/दिनेश शाह) dineshah@gmail.com:
Easwar,
On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Easwar Hariharanmeindian523@gmail.com wrote:
Krishnakant:This is not being done by Infy,rather Nandan Nilekani has resigned from Infy and taken up responsibilities in government.
Sorry my missreading.
BTW,nice to know I'm not the only one who's concerned about the potential implications of the database et al being buggy Microsoft software.I was wondering if I was becoming paranoid.
Yes indeed we are not alone, although some members on this list might find people like you and me as total morons, but some are smart enough to ignore me. :)
IMO,the main issue is whether the database holding the details of name,address,fingerprints etc is fully secure.Apparently after everything is said and done,NIC will take over administration of the database.Considering that they can't even build websites compatible with multiple browsers,and reports of Chinese cracking Defence,Home,Intelligence agencies websites,emails et al are very regular,I wonder what would be the fate if a terrorist organization would crack this database and create an artificial ID and wreak havoc.
Yes, with the technologies coming from the campus like M$ it is a hunting heaven for thos kinds of terrorists activities. And add to it, those organisations who make such technologies know this very well. But they are not unsupporting such potential terrorist possibilities. You are absolutely right about this, but don't start it again, like me you will also get advice about "business rivalry " and what not. Afterall I at least make sence to some people I am happy to know that.
I think we need a national conversation in the FOSS space on this,consequently I'm forwarding this to Pune LUG too.
I have put together a blog post that may interest you.
Yes, afterall all lists and all list members are not talking shops who will just jump and rant those who bring fundamentally big issues online.
http://dineshah.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/citizen-identification-system/
I don't think any Indian LUG has enough muscle or clout to make an iota of change policy decision.
Well they do have provided the right people trigger right things at the right time.
happy hacking. Krishnakant.
On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Nikhil Marathe wrote:
Nandan Nilekani is to start the process of issuing every Indian citizen an identity card.
A very ambitious project and one that rather would have more of IT coming into governance, hopefully not 'bound' to Microsoft Internet Explorer. :P
But are the platform/readers and so on based on open source standards, such that you or I can verify that it doesn't have flaws or hidden backdoors which can be misused?
I couldn't find anything on Google. Anyone has any ideas?
Two ways to think about it. One: If it has to do more business, earn more money for stakeholders, get more "so-called" cheap labour, then it'll go the Microsoft Way! The three IT biggies have Microsoft everywhere! Don't they? XP runs irrespective of the needs and usage of the person using the computer. Perhaps, 'volume-licensing-costs' helps. ;)
Two: If the costs incurred have to be less, have some amount of "voluntary" developers work on relatively lower costs, use Open Source Software (free software :P, note the "f" ) and make 1 out of 2,00,000 people happy, it will be rather "open" software not bounded to a OS / browser.
Just an opinion! I would love to see more opinions and/or comments on this! I'm waiting for more ideas to pour in ;) -- Roshan Baladhanvi
2009/6/27 Nikhil Marathe nsm.nikhil@gmail.com:
Hi all,
Nandan Nilekani is to start the process of issuing every Indian citizen an identity card. But are the platform/readers and so on based on open source standards, such that you or I can verify that it doesn't have flaws or hidden backdoors which can be misused?
Are we missing the real picture here? This EFF article discussed issues of a National ID card as they planned in the US.
http://w2.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/nationalidsystem.html
Also RMS wrote about it,
"A South African woman is in difficulties because she cannot get a national ID card. It requires a fingerprint, but she has no fingers.
To require citizens to give the government their fingerprints for ordinary life activities is unjust even if they do have fingers. National ID cards should be abolished everywhere. "
http://stallman.org/archives/2008-may-aug.html#07%20May%202008%20%28National...
To get an idea of what is possible when every movement of yours is tracked, read this http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/17/scroogled-cclicensed.html
I would like to see more debates on the loss of privacy of the people and more state surveilance.
I couldn't find anything on Google. Anyone has any ideas?
Thanks, Nikhil
- Praveen
On Sunday 28 June 2009, Praveen A wrote:
2009/6/27 Nikhil Marathe nsm.nikhil@gmail.com:
Hi all,
Nandan Nilekani is to start the process of issuing every Indian citizen an identity card. But are the platform/readers and so on based on open source standards, such that you or I can verify that it doesn't have flaws or hidden backdoors which can be misused?
Are we missing the real picture here? This EFF article discussed issues of a National ID card as they planned in the US.
there was an earlier thread on this theme on this list.
One does not require a national id for any of the touted purposes, including everyone's favourite dog - security. There are multiple vulnerabilities inherent in the system, even without the technology. The costs involved in trying to plug leakages - the present avowed purpose of the id - is trivial using simple traditional methods. It is more about political will to implement reforms in all layers of governance, primarily opening up government info to the public without filing stupid forms.
Rest assured a national id can and will be used politically. Putting up a "pretty face" in the form of Nandini Nilenkani is devilish genius. The focus has neatly shifted from why to how.
-
Dinesh Shah (દિનેશ શાહ/दिनेश शाह) -
Easwar Hariharan -
jtd -
Krishnakant -
Nikhil Marathe -
Piyush Ranjan -
Praveen A -
Roshan