Hi Bhaskar

A very interesting point put up by you but somewhere between the lines you are conflicting yourself.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 02:31:55 -0800 (PST), Bhaskar Ghose thegnuer@yahoo.de wrote:

I don't understand why everybody here is such a big fan of Mono where there is another project DotGNU which also aims at implementing the .Net for GNU/Linux on a plethora of other arch plus other OSes too in a way being 100% portable. The DotGNU project is managed by the FSF itself with RMS in the steering committee. Now here a lot of people may ask why there are two projects with the same goal ...

Free Software is all about freedom ... freedom of choice. Based on the same argument one can spark a debate abt gnome, kde, xfce etc

the thing is that the DotGNU people earlier have tried to merge the two projects together but all they got were verbal volleys from our very favourite Miguel de Icaza. The main problem at the moment is that the Mono guys (read Novell) doesn't want to have Mono under a Free Software license and they also recently changed their library licensing from LGPL to MIT's X11 license to make it more unrestrictive.

is there anything wrong about that ? should all software be only GPL / LGPL ? Is MIT X11 non free software like other commercial license. is MIT license taking away your code from you without your consent ?

They also plan to sell Mono to companies under proprietary licenses if they want to. Talking about technical issues, DotGNU is faster than Mono as Mono is self hsoting (written in C# itself) and Mono also has a very weird approach towards implementing the Windows.Forms thingy ... they have done it using Wine whereas DotGNU only needs X to run Windows.Forms What Mono seems to me at the moment is that it's just a C# development environment for GNU/Linux and doesn't intend to be 100% compatible with MS .Net ... they are trying to push GTk# instead of Windows.Forms ... who'll use GTk# if Windows.Forms works perfectly ? As far as DotGNU is concerned, GTk# or any free software libs can be easily made to work with DotGNU's Portable .Net.

I have personally not used dotgnu but it ships with sus

The fact that Gopal V, one of the major contributors to the DotGNU project ported the Portable .Net to the Encore Simputer in 3 hours flat on Linux Bangalore/2004 this time bears testimony of the portability issue. While I don't intend to demean Mono in any way, I dislike their attitude towards the Freedom aspect in general and the DotGNU project in particular. (Rhys Weatherley and others have relicensed DotGNU code to Mono under their MIT's X11 license but the reverse has not happened till date). The DotGNU project needs our help and it's time we got our facts right and decided whom we should support. More info on http://www.dotgnu.org Regards, Bhaskar Ghose

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Hello,

is there anything wrong about that ? should all software be only GPL / LGPL ? Is MIT X11 non free software like other commercial license. is MIT license taking away your code from you without your consent ?

Well, the MIT license surely does provide us with all the freedom, but that's not the only thing what a free software license should do. It must also protect our rights at the same time. A program released under the MIT license can be sublicensed into any proprietary license and thus put inside non-free softwares too. This is not what ideally a free software should allow. A software that is born free must make sure that it remains free throughout its life cycle otherwise it's just a waste. More knowledgeable people on the list, please correct me if I am wrong. And for the same reason, we should support the DotGNU project because it protects our rights and with Mono, we never know when the code written by you is sold to a company under a proprietary license and one day, may be you'd need to buy back your own code from them. Just my personal opinion. Regards, -bg-

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I had similar problems in a Knoppix installation. I don't know anything about SUSE but maybe you can try this. Use vi or anything else for following. 1. To enable non-root login in text mode file: /etc/pam.d/login -> comment out the line "auth requisite pam_nologin.so" Now for GUI 2. To enable gui login for root file: /etc/inittab -> append following at end of file "x:5:respawn:/usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon" This is for KDE. Check the path and that switch may not ne needed. 3. To enable non-root gui login file: /etc/pam.d/kdm ->comment out the line "auth required pam_nologin.so"

On Fri, 2004-12-10 at 21:58 +0530, <<---Yogesh--->> wrote:

hi guys,

i m using suse linux 9.1.... it was working finely but now i cannt login in gui .......

can you login to console? then login to the console and rename your .xinitrc to old.xinitrc

See if it works

regards

Mifthas haris

i get login screen i put valid id and password then it goes in and again logs out and i again come back to login screen.....

i tried to login as root same things happening again please guide me

thank you, yog

ouch i seem to have pressed send before completing :o

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 02:31:55 -0800 (PST), Bhaskar Ghose thegnuer@yahoo.de wrote:

Now here a lot of people may ask why there are two projects with the same goal ... the thing is that the DotGNU people earlier have tried to merge the two projects together but all they got were verbal volleys from our very favourite Miguel de Icaza.

thegnuer@yahoo.de wrote:

I don't understand why everybody here is such a big fan of Mono where there is another project DotGNU which also aims at implementing the .Net for GNU/Linux on a plethora of other arch plus other OSes too in a way being 100% portable. The DotGNU project is managed by the FSF itself with RMS in the steering committee. Now here a lot of people may ask why there are two projects with the same goal ...

Free Software is all about freedom ... freedom of choice. Based on the same argument one can spark a debate abt gnome, kde, xfce etc

The main problem at the moment is that the Mono guys (read Novell) doesn't want to have Mono under a Free Software license and they also recently changed their library licensing from LGPL to MIT's X11 license to make it more unrestrictive. They also plan to sell Mono to companies under proprietary licenses if

is there anything wrong about that ? should all software be only GPL / LGPL ? Is MIT X11 non free software like other commercial license. is MIT license taking away your code from you without your consent ?

they want to. Talking about technical issues, DotGNU is faster than Mono as Mono is self hsoting (written in C# itself) and Mono also has a

great ! miguel and his team are very open to new ideas and making mono better ... why dont u point this out to them on the mono list ?

very weird approach towards implementing the Windows.Forms thingy ... they have done it using Wine whereas DotGNU only needs X to run Windows.Forms What Mono seems to me at the moment is that it's just a C# development environment for GNU/Linux and doesn't intend to be 100% compatible with MS .Net

i suggest you better go through the mono roadmap and please tell the group about how you have mislead them http://www.mono-project.com/about/mono-roadmap.html

... they are trying to push GTk# instead of Windows.Forms ... who'll use GTk# if Windows.Forms works perfectly ? As far as DotGNU is concerned, GTk# or any free software libs can be easily made to work with DotGNU's Portable .Net.

though i m not a .net/ mono/ dotgnu geek but the little that i know i m sure there is nothing terribly wrong abt windows.form implementation in mono. still if you think so a better place to shout is the mono list where ppl will might better appreciate your views

While I don't intend to demean Mono in any way, I dislike their attitude towards the Freedom aspect in general and the DotGNU project

novells (a major contributor to mono ) suse ships with dotgnu compiler as well as mono. i dont see any attitude problem

in particular. (Rhys Weatherley and others have relicensed DotGNU code to Mono under their MIT's X11 license but the reverse has not happened till date). The DotGNU project needs our help and it's time we got our facts right and decided whom we should support.

not at all a valid argument. it is perfectly ok to make money and have a good lifestyle. something tells me that you are still in college . looks like you havent had to pay salaries for your employees or worry abt monthly bills .

It is a fact and we have to accept it ... GPL was never businessman friendly and thats why other free s/w licenses have come up .

i m more curious to learn about dotgnu. i will be happy if you can talk abt it in the jan meet. talk abt dotgnu rather than comparing or demeaning any other project.

hope you care to change your attitude towards free s/w projects rather than trying to polarise the community

Harsh

http://ebackend.com/blog

More info on http://www.dotgnu.org Regards, Bhaskar Ghose