hello every one. relax and just chil out with the following real joke that took place with me on 15th. at a school where I was advocating gnu/linux over m$ with one of the "naukars of MR bil dada". I was at a function for my falisitation from my own school in dadar. the guest of honour was some one from microsoft since they donated 100 computers with windows of captivity to the school. as usual I was explaining the authorities at my school why they should not teach windows to young students and do bad sanskars on them. actually one of the dignitories MR. Nitin Shah was also an associate of redhat linux. so I had one person to speek for me as well. the ms guy started to show me down by saying you un organised geeks don't even know what Information Technology means to people. and u can only develop academic toys for college students who want to know what is an OS like. your system can't offer any thing except a toy box. I told him "sir, there was a hindi film called divar just few years back, I just transfered one of its famous dylogs into IT" MR. Bil Gaits: "mere pas word hain, excel hain, access hain, power point hain, SQL server hain, tumhre pas kya hain bolo kya hain tumhare pas!" I say "mere pas freedom hain". this just came out sponteneously and out of the box. the entire staff was in throws of laughter. and it was then that they asked me what did I say that even some one from MS can't answer. the rest is not history but will be future. enjoy. Krishnakant.
MR. Bil Gaits:
"mere pas word hain, excel hain, access hain, power point hain, SQL server hain, tumhre pas kya hain bolo kya hain tumhare pas!" I say "mere pas freedom hain". this just came out sponteneously and out of the box. the entire staff was in throws of laughter. and it was then that they asked me what did I say that even some one from MS can't answer. the rest is not history but will be future. enjoy. Krishnakant.
Krishna This seriously happened in that meeting ? I mean its cool but just want to know whether it really happened.
Krishna This seriously happened in that meeting ? I mean its cool but just want to know whether it really happened.
yes indeed. actually although a bit elder to me that man was also an x student of my school. and I told this to him when he started arguing during tea time when we all were sitting in the conference room with the seneor staff. I just wanted to make the situation a bit coordial and so was pulling leggs of our teachers etc. that time this guy came in my way. so I took that opportunity to tont him. Krishnakant.
Hi Krishankant,
On 9/16/06, krishnakant Mane researchbase@gmail.com wrote:
I told him "sir, there was a hindi film called divar just few years back, I just transfered one of its famous dylogs into IT" MR. Bil Gaits: "mere pas word hain, excel hain, access hain, power point hain, SQL server hain, tumhre pas kya hain bolo kya hain tumhare pas!" I say "mere pas freedom hain".
LOL... I would say bravo. :-D
enjoy. Krishnakant.
With regards, --- --Dinesh Shah :-)
well, actually I was already preparing to fire at him when I came to know he was from M$ for two things. firstly I never leave a chance to pull the legs of people supporting ms. and secondly I wanted a very easy and jolly way of telling my school staff how good and sociable gnu/linux is. so while sitting on the stage as one of the guest of honor I was thinking of the idea since this was not my first confrontation with microsoft guys. never the less he was asking me in the end what I think should ms do to get at power with gnu/linux. I told him it is very simple, release your source code. however Dr. Nagarjuna pointed out yesterday that I just told him the half truth. I should have told him, "just release the source code to the community and we will make windows virus free within no time". sorry, Dr. Nagarjuna, I will do it on my next such encounters with "naukars of bil gaits". Krishnakant.
On Saturday 16 September 2006 19:31, krishnakant Mane wrote:
with me on 15th. at a school where I was advocating gnu/linux over m$ with one of the "naukars of MR bil dada".
should not teach windows to young students and do bad sanskars on them. actually one of the dignitories MR. Nitin Shah was also an associate of redhat linux.
Umm...Krishnakant, I'm not playing the devils advocate but one should always have a balanced opinion. Yours seems quite skewed. You can always advocate GNU/Linux without showing windows in a bad light. Windows, as an OS isn't all that bad. What are its strong points are to be acknowledged and incorporated into GNU/Linux.
the ms guy started to show me down by saying you un organised geeks don't even know what Information Technology means to people. and u can only develop academic toys for college students who want to know what is an OS like. your system can't offer any thing except a toy box.
Haha....so unguided missiles are toys? routers are toys? Oh not to mention asterisk which is replacing CISCO's heavy duty VoIP boxes are a toy? The OS running 70% of the web's infrastructure are toys? Haha. That in itself is a joke :P
BTW you cracked a very good joke Krishnakant :) Good presence of mind ;)
On 18/09/06 01:39 +0000, Dinesh Joshi wrote: <snip>
Windows, as an OS isn't all that bad. What are its strong points are to be acknowledged and incorporated into GNU/Linux.
Hmmm, let see:
Active Directory as a concept. Still way too complex in Unix. Other than the standards breakage from MS, a good idea.
Applications (particularly those dealing with closed formats -- AutoCAD, Office). Open standards for such things would be nice, but at the moment backwards compatibility would appear to be more important. Requiring that all document formats be properly documented and released to the public for unrestricted distribution would be the nicest thing the government could do.
Hardware support. Broken by lack of manufacturer support, particularly for cheap hardware.
the ms guy started to show me down by saying you un organised geeks don't even know what Information Technology means to people. and u can only develop academic toys for college students who want to know what is an OS like. your system can't offer any thing except a toy box.
Haha....so unguided missiles are toys? routers are toys? Oh not to mention asterisk which is replacing CISCO's heavy duty VoIP boxes are a toy? The OS running 70% of the web's infrastructure are toys? Haha.
Linux does dominate the public webserver market *yay for cheap webhosting). Internal websites tend to be on other operating systems though. Asterisk isn't exactly replacing Cisco in the enterprise market, though Skype is doing things to scare everyone else. Most non toy routers run IOS or JunOS (not that Linux _can't_, it just doesn't have the hardware support). Linux is primarily replacing Unix, but it faces that nasty problem of Windows compatibility.
All that it takes is that Linux users start requiring that Windows users stay compatible with them instead of the other way round. Stop using MS office formats, and you break Microsft's dominance. Don't even bother about IE compatibility, but write standards compliant HTML and CSS. If IE can't handle it, sucks.
If you aren't prepared to pay the price for it, don't complain. FOSS isn't driven by non-paying users (pay in time, money, documentation, support costs for some application(s) or the other).
Put up money for the OS and apps, and require that they be under OSI compliant licenses.
Devdas Bhagat
indeed I totally agree that there should be a positive comparison between windows and gnu/linux. but that is all. I agree that there is nothing like flash or autocad in gnu/linux and for me, there is no good screen reader alternative. having said that I also used gnu/linux extencively and im waiting for the orca screen reader to be released. once that is done, I think windows will eventually vanish out of my house and office. talking about getting schools to use linux, well that's the way to go. today the main reason why there is all this problem of gnu/linux is not this and gnu/linux can't do that is because there are less gnu/linux users on the desktop. this can only change if students are thought gnu/linux right from their early age of learning computers. there should be a huge generation using gnu/linux so much so that due to its usability, new softwares will start to sproute. imagine a photographer telling me "I have only learned gnu/linux, so while you develop that xyz software for my customised needs, make sure it runns on gnu/linux". that should happen very often. by the way I think there are very few situation where hardware support is not present in today's linux kernel. the days of heavy incompatibility are by far gone. infact when the gentelman from M$ called linux as a toy, that is what really irritated me and even I thought "this man is even worst than an illetrate person and foolish than the sardars from their jokes". as Mr. Dinesh rightly pointed it out, calling linux a toy itself is a joke. I mean, how could yahoo, google, nasa etc could run on a toy? bottom line is that I am not saying don't see the good points of windows. rather I will say take a demo of windows and catch its good points. of course don't make linux talk like "c: and d:" that's stupid. but for example I demonstrated the jaws screen reader on windows during the 16th. meet and I think people like Anurag were more than impressed. but I did not stop there. I have put forth a plan to Dr. Nagarjuna about having a similar screen reader which unlike gnopernicus will become the tool of regular blind people and not programmers and scientists or computer experts. thanking you and regards to all. Krishnakant Mane.
On 18/09/06 09:34 +0530, krishnakant Mane wrote:
indeed I totally agree that there should be a positive comparison between windows and gnu/linux. but that is all. I agree that there is nothing like flash or autocad in gnu/linux and for me, there is no good screen reader alternative.
There is flash, there are CAD tools, just that they don't scale up to the level of AutoCAD/Katia.
having said that I also used gnu/linux extencively and im waiting for the orca screen reader to be released. once that is done, I think windows will eventually vanish out of my house and office.
I don't know your requirements for a GUI, but I do know of at least one totally blind server admin who exclusively uses the console and is happy with it (Deedra Waters).
talking about getting schools to use linux, well that's the way to go. today the main reason why there is all this problem of gnu/linux is not this and gnu/linux can't do that is because there are less gnu/linux users on the desktop. this can only change if students are
Personally, I would rather see Linux on the corporate desktop. And on government desktops. Once you have those in place, the rest of the world will follow.
thought gnu/linux right from their early age of learning computers. there should be a huge generation using gnu/linux so much so that due to its usability, new softwares will start to sproute. imagine a photographer telling me "I have only learned gnu/linux, so while you develop that xyz software for my customised needs, make sure it runns on gnu/linux".
Speaking of which, http://nixcartel.org/~devdas/photos/ladakh-photos/ Digital photos post-processed with ufraw and ImageMagick (ufraw can't do a good jpeg dump directly, so I had to route it via TIFF).
Devdas Bhagat
that should happen very often. by the way I think there are very few situation where hardware support is not present in today's linux kernel. the days of heavy incompatibility are by far gone. infact when the gentelman from M$
Winmodems, USB DSL modems, 3D video cards. It breaks _just_ enough that people don't like it.
Devdas Bhagat
On Monday 18 September 2006 03:32, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
Most non toy routers run IOS or JunOS (not that Linux
That apart EIGRP is the default protocol on the routers and is patented. IOS is a mangled version of the BSDs. In a previous era when mem was a constraint it would have been useful. Today a 1GB usb would allow a full blown distro to reside on a router.
_can't_, it just doesn't have the hardware support).
??. U can use a run of the mill x86 box. The useable bandwidth is 25mbps on the PCI bus. So with suitable interface cards that would make a decent router. Not to mention all the other goodies that u could addon. U would excuse the power consumption though.
On 18/09/06 11:11 +0530, jtd wrote:
On Monday 18 September 2006 03:32, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
Most non toy routers run IOS or JunOS (not that Linux
That apart EIGRP is the default protocol on the routers and is
Only Cisco shops use EIGRP internally. Most people use OSPF or ISIS. And the public Internet runs on BGP.
patented. IOS is a mangled version of the BSDs. In a previous era
JunOS is FreeBSD + drivers.
when mem was a constraint it would have been useful. Today a 1GB usb would allow a full blown distro to reside on a router.
_can't_, it just doesn't have the hardware support).
??. U can use a run of the mill x86 box. The useable bandwidth is 25mbps on the PCI bus. So with suitable interface cards that would
25 mbps shared over everything _is_ a toy router. Think DS3, OC3 or better. And then all your packets have to go to the CPU. Linux is a good CPE router, but it definitely isn't there for anything beyond that.
The PC architecture simply isn't suitable for pushing large numbers of small packets around. Not the fault of Linux.
make a decent router. Not to mention all the other goodies that u could addon. U would excuse the power consumption though.
A decent low end router (at which point you can put in an arm chip and get really low power consumption.)
Devdas Bhagat
On Monday 18 September 2006 11:56, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On 18/09/06 11:11 +0530, jtd wrote:
On Monday 18 September 2006 03:32, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
Most non toy routers run IOS or JunOS (not that Linux
That apart EIGRP is the default protocol on the routers and is
Only Cisco shops use EIGRP internally. Most people use OSPF or ISIS. And the public Internet runs on BGP.
patented. IOS is a mangled version of the BSDs. In a previous era
JunOS is FreeBSD + drivers.
when mem was a constraint it would have been useful. Today a 1GB usb would allow a full blown distro to reside on a router.
_can't_, it just doesn't have the hardware support).
??. U can use a run of the mill x86 box. The useable bandwidth is 25mbps on the PCI bus. So with suitable interface cards that would
25 mbps shared over everything _is_ a toy router. Think DS3, OC3 or better. And then all your packets have to go to the CPU. Linux is a good CPE router, but it definitely isn't there for anything beyond that.
But that is what makes the bulk markets. In which case one would have to go up to PCIE. Honestly tho i havent even seen the numbers, availability or costs as yet.
The PC architecture simply isn't suitable for pushing large numbers of small packets around. Not the fault of Linux.
make a decent router. Not to mention all the other goodies that u could addon. U would excuse the power consumption though.
A decent low end router (at which point you can put in an arm chip and get really low power consumption.)
The idea is to be able to use COTS hardware available anywhere. ARM or other archs are not widespread or cost effective here as yet.
On 18/09/06 13:14 +0530, jtd wrote: <snip>
But that is what makes the bulk markets. In which case one would have to go up to PCIE. Honestly tho i havent even seen the numbers, availability or costs as yet.
Pssst: there are plenty of systems out there running Linux, but not on the PC architecture.
And bulk markets mean very little in the networking market. The money is in enterprise and in being able to connect to almost anything in the telecom world.
And ARM is plenty popular. What do you think most consumer grade equipment runs on?
Devdas Bhagat
On Monday 18 September 2006 13:47, Devdas Bhagat wrote:
On 18/09/06 13:14 +0530, jtd wrote:
<snip>
But that is what makes the bulk markets. In which case one would have to go up to PCIE. Honestly tho i havent even seen the numbers, availability or costs as yet.
And ARM is plenty popular. What do you think most consumer grade equipment runs on?
MIPS. Particularly for connectivity and video stuff. Arm seems to have fallen way behind in this seg. Mainly cause bus io and reg to reg is faaast on mips. ARM seems to be in the power miser market - pda, cellphones. What is the scene on 68k ?
--- jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
JTD, you went back in time. :)
Regards,
Rony.
___________________________________________________________ All New Yahoo! Mail Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you. http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
On Monday 18 September 2006 22:25, Rony Bill wrote:
--- jtd jtd@mtnl.net.in wrote:
JTD, you went back in time. :)
YIKES!!!. No doubt mail client was haywire. Just changed the mobo.
-
Devdas Bhagat -
Dinesh Joshi -
Dinesh Shah -
Harshal Vaidya -
jtd -
krishnakant Mane -
Rony Bill