On Thursday 23 June 2005 21:40, Manoj Bohara wrote:
Dear Members, My name is Manoj Bohara. Friends i needed some information regarding linux OS courses .
Hi Manoj,
There are a few, most prominent being RH and Novell-Suse.
I am deeply intrested in linux system programming field.
The above courses have very little to do with programming for anything, let alone the linux kernel. They're aligned towards system administration. Google to understand the various "flavours" of programming.
Also i needed guidance on how should i go about it .
Reading books on systems, oses and programming is one method. Other methods could be story listening and pavlovian conditioning. The last method is in wide spread use as it produces code of a unique quality known as sphagetti. Most "programmers" know this learning and programming environment as Visual xyz, running under an os known as windows. Rumours say windows and associated apps was written by microserfs conditioned to click icons at a furious pace, which by magic produces sphagetti code.
necessary C/C++ in depth to learn such Linux subjects .
One other method, in addition to the first, used widely in writing libre software is reading the source code. Both methods are highily recommended. Besides producing code of a very high quality, it is known to produce immunity to pavlovian conditioning and actually winds up teaching the reader to write code.
Thanks in anticipation
Oh you are welcome ;-)).
rgds jtd
On Fri, 2005-06-24 at 10:02, sherlock@vsnl.com wrote:
Reading books on systems, oses and programming is one method. Other methods could be story listening and pavlovian conditioning. The last method is in wide spread use as it produces code of a unique quality known as sphagetti. Most "programmers" know this learning and programming environment as Visual xyz, running under an os known as windows. Rumours say windows and associated apps was written by microserfs conditioned to click icons at a furious pace, which by magic produces sphagetti code.
necessary C/C++ in depth to learn such Linux subjects .
One other method, in addition to the first, used widely in writing libre software is reading the source code. Both methods are highily recommended. Besides producing code of a very high quality, it is known to produce immunity to pavlovian conditioning and actually winds up teaching the reader to write code.
I second that. You've hit the nail on the head! I couldn't agree with you more. Visual this and Visual that cannot be considered "languages", atleast IMHO.
As a popular quote goes, I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, Vi and Perl. Thank you.
Nothing thrills me more than writing pure, clean code on a black and white console.
Regards, NMK. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft: You've got questions. We've got a dancing paperclip.
--- "Nadeem M. Khan" nadeem.m.khan@gmail.com wrote:
I second that. You've hit the nail on the head! I couldn't agree with you more. Visual this and Visual that cannot be considered "languages", atleast IMHO.
As a popular quote goes, I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, Vi and Perl. Thank you.
Nothing thrills me more than writing pure, clean code on a black and white console.
With no offense intended (and without any intention to trigger an IDE war): I wonder if you've worked with Object Oriented platforms such as Java or C++ where one has to work with thousands of classes. I myself have been a notepad programmer once, but I'm addicted to the performance boosts that an IDE provides me with.
I'm sure that COM, CORBA and Gnome developers would know what I'm talking about. I've not much clue about KDE, though I've read that D-BUS is a good architecture.
Automatic code generation today has come a long way from dumb code generation of the past. Also, I wonder if many Visual Basic critics have ever really seen Object Oriented COM programming in Visual Basic 6. I'll post some thoughts on this in a separate mail.
My point: I feel that a skilled text console based programmer would benefit enormously from the performance boosts that a graphical IDE would offer.
I happen to be a developer for the Eclipse platform, and intend to make Eclipse platform development my career. The next time I visit Mumbai and my visit co-incides with a LUG meet, I'd been happy to show case the Eclipse IDE. I understand that there was some demo recently, but don't know more.
Regards, NMK.
-- Sriram
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On Fri, 2005-06-24 at 20:57, Sriram N wrote:
--- "Nadeem M. Khan" nadeem.m.khan@gmail.com wrote:
I second that. You've hit the nail on the head! I couldn't agree with you more. Visual this and Visual that cannot be considered "languages", atleast IMHO.
As a popular quote goes, I'd crawl over an acre of 'Visual This++' and 'Integrated Development That' to get to gcc, Emacs, Vi and Perl. Thank you.
Nothing thrills me more than writing pure, clean code on a black and white console.
With no offense intended
None taken.
(and without any intention to trigger an IDE war): I wonder if you've worked with Object Oriented platforms such as Java or C++ where one has to work with thousands of classes.
Umm..no. I not a cpp or java junkie yet. I'm just out of college and am dabbling in C, shell scripting and Perl. Maybe my point of view would change once I venture into OOP.
BTW, could anyone suggest a nice book for GTK programming with C? I'm fascinated by GUI applications like Gyach which are written in C/GTK and would love to develop something like that.
Regards, NMK. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- To segfault is human; to bluescreen moronic.
BTW, could anyone suggest a nice book for GTK programming with C? I'm fascinated by GUI applications like Gyach which are written in C/GTK and would love to develop something like that.
Dear Nadeem,
The standard GTK+ tutorial that's available on the official site in HTML version is pretty good.
However if you venture out, I believe SAMs "GTK+ in 21 days" is a decent book for a beginner. I am not too sure about the name. :)
Take care, Paul Alapatt
Sometime on Jun 24, NMK cobbled together some glyphs to say:
BTW, could anyone suggest a nice book for GTK programming with C? I'm
Rather limited, but can get you started: http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/
BTW, could anyone suggest a nice book for GTK programming with C? I'm fascinated by GUI applications like Gyach which are written in C/GTK and would love to develop something like that.
You can try a book by no strach press called something in lines of "GNOME progamming". Or you could try searching Amazon, their reviews are generally authoritative.
Regards,
ah
BTW, could anyone suggest a nice book for GTK programming with C? I'm fascinated by GUI applications like Gyach which are written in C/GTK and would love to develop something like that.
Regards, NMK.
The Officical GNOME 2 Developer's Guide by Matthias Warkus No Starch Press
Regards,
Komal
Sometime Today, SN cobbled together some glyphs to say:
war): I wonder if you've worked with Object Oriented platforms such as Java or C++ where one has to work with thousands of classes. I myself
If you have thousands of classes in a single app, redesign it to have looser coupling, and then separate things into shared libraries.
have been a notepad programmer once, but I'm addicted to the performance boosts that an IDE provides me with.
I'm sure that COM, CORBA and Gnome developers would know what I'm talking about.
Still, gvim for me :)
generation of the past. Also, I wonder if many Visual Basic critics have ever really seen Object Oriented COM programming in Visual Basic
My crib with VB is merely that it recurses badly. Other than that, I loved it when I was a teenager :P
My point: I feel that a skilled text console based programmer would benefit enormously from the performance boosts that a graphical IDE would offer.
I might use a graphical IDE if: - it is as light as gvim - it does not require me to ever touch the mouse or use menus (ie, keyboard access for everything) - it provides regex based pattern searching
I've never actually used a graphical IDE on unix systems. The last IDE I used was MS Visual Interdev (I think), and I liked it except for some of the above features that it didn't support. Autocomplete was cool, and I can do that in vim too. Searching multiple files... can do. Publish to a server via rcp/ftp/scp - damn... vim can do that too. Heh, so is vim an IDE? Well, it doesn't do drag and drop GUIs, so I guess not. :)
Ciao.
--- Philip Tellis philip.tellis@gmx.net wrote:
Sometime Today, SN cobbled together some glyphs to say:
war): I wonder if you've worked with Object Oriented platforms such as Java or C++ where one has to work with thousands of classes. I myself
If you have thousands of classes in a single app, redesign it to have looser coupling, and then separate things into shared libraries.
Ack. I'm a frameworks developer, so I agree with this. It so happens with some of the projects I work on, that I need to be able to browse hundreds of classes within 30-45 minutes. Which is why I appreciate the class browsing facility of en IDE such as Eclipse.
generation of the past. Also, I wonder if many Visual Basic critics have ever really seen Object Oriented COM programming in Visual Basic
My crib with VB is merely that it recurses badly. Other than that, I loved it when I was a teenager :P
Ack. I've started preparing an Object Oriented Programming Course with Visual Basic 6.0 for the Nashik student community. I think I'll find reviewers on the ILUG list as well :)
My point: I feel that a skilled text console based programmer would benefit enormously from the performance boosts that a graphical IDE would offer.
I might use a graphical IDE if:
- it is as light as gvim
- it does not require me to ever touch the mouse or use menus (ie, keyboard access for everything)
- it provides regex based pattern searching
:) That list answers, to some extent, the question "What does a console mode programmer want ?" :)
I've never actually used a graphical IDE on unix systems. The last IDE I used was MS Visual Interdev (I think), and I liked it except for some of the above features that it didn't support. Autocomplete was cool, and I can do that in vim too. Searching multiple files... can do. Publish to a server via rcp/ftp/scp - damn... vim can do that too. Heh, so is vim an IDE? Well, it doesn't do drag and drop GUIs, so I guess not. :)
Ack. Till date, I've only used vi to edit the /etc/passwd file, or some startup scripts, to even to jot down a few maintenance related thoughts. I've never really cared to explore vi more, until now.
My thanks to you for the vim info, and to Amol Hatwar for the emacs info. I'm definitely going to explore these two at least, when I return to office tomorrow.
Ciao.
-- Sriram
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My point: I feel that a skilled text console based programmer would benefit enormously from the performance boosts that a graphical IDE would offer.
I happen to be a developer for the Eclipse platform, and intend to make Eclipse platform development my career. The next time I visit Mumbai and my visit co-incides with a LUG meet, I'd been happy to show case the Eclipse IDE. I understand that there was some demo recently, but don't know more.
Don't want to start a war here... but just for the point, what Eclipse does with 200 MB emacs does with 20.
One of my good friends at IBM did try introducing me to Eclipse... that was version 1.0... and I was like rolling on the floor laughing. Newer versions "have" shown promise, but it fundamentally still remains bloatware.
Wonder if anyone has given talks on emacs. On how emacs can be used to: - Edit files - Run shell commands - Read mail - Extended itself via LISP code - Play tetris (when the boss ain't looking)
They don't call emacs the one true program for nothing :).
Regards,
ah
--- Amol Hatwar amol@hatwar.org wrote:
Don't want to start a war here... but just for the point, what Eclipse does with 200 MB emacs does with 20.
Indeed. However, Eclipse the Rich Client Platform is what's really interesting.
One of my good friends at IBM did try introducing me to Eclipse... that was version 1.0... and I was like rolling on the floor laughing. Newer versions "have" shown promise, but it fundamentally still remains bloatware.
Eww.. I'm not sure what demo you saw. I've been a heavy user of IBM's Visual Age for Java and Smalltalk, and Visual Modelling is something that perhaps no one else has attempted.
There are scores of features that powerful IDEs support, and I liked Visual Age enough to bear with it on my P166MMX/128 MB Ram box.
Eclipse is today way beyond an IDE. You should see some of the apps that are possible with the platform and the frameworks.
I'd love to show off the Eclipse platform someday at a LUG meet when I'm in Mumbai.
Wonder if anyone has given talks on emacs. On how emacs can be used to:
- Edit files
- Run shell commands
- Read mail
- Extended itself via LISP code
- Play tetris (when the boss ain't looking)
They don't call emacs the one true program for nothing :).
A number of my friends have told me about emacs, but I haven't even seen it yet. I'll definitely give it a try, now that I'm venturing forth into the Linux world.
Regards,
Thanks for the response, and for piquing my curiosity about emacs.
ah
-- Sriram
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On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 06:56:02 +0530, "Amol Hatwar" amol@hatwar.org said:
Wonder if anyone has given talks on emacs. On how emacs can be used to:
- Edit files
- Run shell commands
- Read mail
- Extended itself via LISP code
- Play tetris (when the boss ain't looking)
They don't call emacs the one true program for nothing :).
I read this on someone's signature somewhere. Emacs is a good Operating System, but Unix has more programs...
Anurag
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Amol Hatwar -
Anurag -
Komal -
Nadeem M. Khan -
Paul Alapatt -
Philip Tellis -
sherlock＠vsnl.com -
Sriram N