Should we block non-text messages on this list? State your opinion.
Philip
On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 04:49:40PM +0530, Philip S Tellis wrote:
Next LUG meet: 11 Oct 2003 around 4 pm - VJTI Mech Dept
Should we block non-text messages on this list? State your opinion.
Philip
Yes! We should block HTML mail but after giving couple of warnings.
yes! they look horrible when they apper in daily diggest --Sachin Rase
Hi,
I think we should leave it to the users to be responsible and not send HTML mail.
Clifford
q u a s i wrote:
Next LUG meet: 11 Oct 2003 around 4 pm - VJTI Mech Dept
On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Philip S. Tellis spake thusly:
Next LUG meet: 11 Oct 2003 around 4 pm - VJTI Mech Dept
Should we block non-text messages on this list? State your opinion.
we should!!
Philip
Hi,
Maybe youre right. Plain text it is but please inform the senders as to why their purty HTML mails were blocked :-) . We should welcome one and all to this list especially newbies and educate them to be a proper netizen (keep a shorter intro message when somebody joins the list). I know its difficult to deal with the kind of people who ask where the 'any key' is ;-) but we should still try to help. By scaring people away we are not helping Linux in any way.
Clifford
Philip S Tellis wrote:
That's what it's been this far, and people have shown an amazing ability to be irresponsible.
YES, HTML does increases the SIZE of the mail.
also with new vuln. cropping up in IE and outlook and other equivalent email clients ,it's looks like a better alternative.
-regs Harshul -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GIT d-(--) s:- a-- C++@ UL P+ L++ E+ W++@ N++ o? K- w O? M? V? PS+ PE++ Y? PGP t+ 5? X R tv+ b++ DI+ D G++ e++>+++ h!@ r! !y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Harshul AT sintelli DOT com Copyright C 2002-2003 Sintelli Ltd. http://www.sintelli.com
-----Original Message----- From: linuxers-bounces@mm.ilug-bom.org.in [mailto:linuxers-bounces@mm.ilug-bom.org.in]On Behalf Of Philip S Tellis Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 11:20 AM To: Linux Users Subject: [ILUG-BOM] [Vote] blocking non-text messages
Next LUG meet: 11 Oct 2003 around 4 pm - VJTI Mech Dept ------------------------------------------------------- Should we block non-text messages on this list? State your opinion.
Philip
hii,
I think we shouldn't , that way we are resisting newer technologies , something that tech lovers should never do , someday if someone wants to post html format for unavoidable reasons , this forum will then be found lacking and technologically lagging , do we want to create an impression like that? .
I am of the opinion that we should allow HTML messages and as a sign I am composing this message in HTML
Regards neo the lurker
Philip S Tellis wrote:
Next LUG meet: 11 Oct 2003 around 4 pm - VJTI Mech Dept
Should we block non-text messages on this list? State your opinion.
Philip
Should we block non-text messages on this list? State your opinion.
In general, I'd have said "yes". But points raised by Nikhil Bhaskaran and Amish Mehta are very relevant.
1. If a new user joins the list and all his (urgent) posts bounce because he didn't switch off "Send mail in HTML" in his mail client, perhaps it's unnecessarily discouraging to him. Can our mail mgmt software at least bounce his mail back to him telling him precisely why it bounced? If yes, then I feel this class of problems can be taken care of.
2. Someone finds an interesting article in PDF/MS Word format, which he desperately wants to share with others on the Net. We shouldn't totally ban these; we should just ensure that they are a minority. Therefore, in legit situations with non-text attachments, can a list member write to the list admin and ask him to push the mail and attachments through as a special case? If yes, I am game for an only-text mail policy.
These were the only two reservations I have.
regards, Shuvam
On 27/09/03 13:22 +0530, Shuvam Misra wrote: <snip>
- If a new user joins the list and all his (urgent) posts bounce because he didn't switch off "Send mail in HTML" in his mail client,
So the subscription confirmation message can have the rules spelled out. You are expected to read that mail.
perhaps it's unnecessarily discouraging to him. Can our mail mgmt software at least bounce his mail back to him telling him precisely why it bounced? If yes, then I feel this class of problems can be taken care of.
Mailman can do that.
- Someone finds an interesting article in PDF/MS Word format, which he desperately wants to share with others on the Net. We shouldn't
So send a URL. Not hard, keeps it small and those who are really interested can follow the link while those who aren't interested can ignore it.
totally ban these; we should just ensure that they are a minority. Therefore, in legit situations with non-text attachments, can a list
If you need to send an attachment, send a URL instead.
Devdas Bhagat
- Someone finds an interesting article in PDF/MS Word format, which he desperately wants to share with others on the Net. We shouldn't
So send a URL. Not hard, keeps it small and those who are really interested can follow the link while those who aren't interested can ignore it.
totally ban these; we should just ensure that they are a minority. Therefore, in legit situations with non-text attachments, can a listIf you need to send an attachment, send a URL instead.
This is a rather trivial solution to the problem; I wouldn't have raised this question at all if all the documents we pass around are available at publicly accessible URLs. I was referring to documents which are not on the Web.
What do you suggest we do then?
Shuvam
On Saturday 27 Sep 2003 8:48 pm, Shuvam Misra wrote:
If you need to send an attachment, send a URL instead.
This is a rather trivial solution to the problem; I wouldn't have raised this question at all if all the documents we pass around are available at publicly accessible URLs. I was referring to documents which are not on the Web.
What do you suggest we do then?
Put those documents on the web !! Get yourself a free account at geocities/tripod and put your documents there. Your documents will then be available for eternity ... or for whatever time your account is active :P
There are people (...though in minority) who search the archives ... do you know how html messages look in archives ? take a look: http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/search/linuxers
Kapil Karekar
p.s. Yes !! only plain text messages please ...
On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:19:27PM +0000, Kapil Karekar wrote:
Next LUG meet: 11 Oct 2003 around 4 pm - VJTI Mech Dept
On Saturday 27 Sep 2003 8:48 pm, Shuvam Misra wrote:
If you need to send an attachment, send a URL instead.
This is a rather trivial solution to the problem; I wouldn't have raised this question at all if all the documents we pass around are available at publicly accessible URLs. I was referring to documents which are not on the Web.
What do you suggest we do then?
Put those documents on the web !! Get yourself a free account at geocities/tripod and put your documents there. Your documents will then be available for eternity ... or for whatever time your account is active :P
If you wish to share a document not encoded in plain text, and think should go to the list, then simple thing to do is to open theat file in an aaplication that created it, and save as text and then send/attach to the mail to the list. I am suggesting this since not everyone out there has a web page to host documents.
Nagarjuna
Put those documents on the web !! Get yourself a free account at geocities/tripod and put your documents there. Your documents will then be available for eternity ... or for whatever time your account is active :P
If you wish to share a document not encoded in plain text, and think should go to the list, then simple thing to do is to open theat file in an aaplication that created it, and save as text and then send/attach to the mail to the list. I am suggesting this since not everyone out there has a web page to host documents.
Will usually lose all formatting. Therefore, won't work with spreadsheets or PS/PDF documents. Actually ultra-simple flowing-text PDF documents will work, but not if they have math/graphics/diagrams. And have you tried reading spreadsheets saved as text? Try deciphering those looong rows of ASCII text, comma separated. A bigger pain than HTML any day. :)
Shuvam
This is a rather trivial solution to the problem; I wouldn't have raised this question at all if all the documents we pass around are available at publicly accessible URLs. I was referring to documents which are not on the Web.
What do you suggest we do then?
Put those documents on the web !! Get yourself a free account at geocities/tripod and put your documents there. Your documents will then be available for eternity ... or for whatever time your account is active :P
This is more trouble than I would be willing to take just to let some members of my mailing list see an interesting document I've found. But if the rest of you think this is the way to go, I'm fine with it. I'll just never make such documents available to the list, that's all. No big deal.
There are people (...though in minority) who search the archives ... do you know how html messages look in archives ? take a look: http://mm.ilug-bom.org.in/mailman/search/linuxers
I looked, and I can see those dirty HTML tags. Bloody irritating.
I'm going a bit off-topic here, but perhaps the mail archiving software is the problem here? I have seen archives maintained by Hypermail, and I haven't seen any such problems in its handling MIME encapsulated messages. In fact, Hypermail does an excellent job with opaque attachments (e.g. Word docs or audio files or whatever) too; it just gives you a link using which you can download the attachment.
Similarly, I have heard a lot of comments during this discussion about the difficulty of using HTML messages using plain-text mail clients like Pine. While this is a bit of a problem sometimes (HTML with frames), I usually find my Pine client (I use Pine exclusively, nothing else, and this is the stock version bundled with SuSE 8.1) displays HTML just fine, without actually launching any "helper app" or asking me to jump through any hoops. So, is HTML content really such a problem even today with Pine?
I know both these comments are a bit off-topic, but I thought I'd ask anyway. :)
Shuvam
On Monday 29 Sep 2003 6:01 am, Shuvam Misra wrote:
This is more trouble than I would be willing to take just to let some members of my mailing list see an interesting document I've found. But if the rest of you think this is the way to go, I'm fine with it. I'll just never make such documents available to the list, that's all. No big deal.
It was never my intention to turn you off from sending information on the list. you are a very active member of this group and I appreciate your contributions :) We are all here to share knowledge.
We should atleast try to get mailman remove html tags while archiving.
Kapil Karekar
On Monday 29 Sep 2003 6:01 am, Shuvam Misra wrote:
This is more trouble than I would be willing to take just to let some members of my mailing list see an interesting document I've found. But if the rest of you think this is the way to go, I'm fine with it. I'll just never make such documents available to the list, that's all. No big deal.
It was never my intention to turn you off from sending information on the list. you are a very active member of this group and I appreciate your contributions :) We are all here to share knowledge.
Hey, no hard feelings. :) I know that if I really have super-duper critical info to send to you guys, no mailing list software will stop anyone... I am sure I email you directly. And if it is indeed something that important, you won't mind the fact that it doesn't come through the list. So, honestly, no big deal. :)
We should atleast try to get mailman remove html tags while archiving.
Yes, on the archiving front, I don't know which program does the archiving for this list. From whatever we've studied, Mailman does not have any archiver built-in. You can use something called Pipermail, a Python program, for this purpose, but Pipermail is no longer maintained. Therefore, we've fallen back on Hypermail. It seems to be working beautifully with MIME. The current archive for this mailing list doesn't even handle MIME, it seems. You can see all the MIME separator strings in the messages. This is too primitive to be accepted, I feel.
Any way I can help, let me know.
Shuvam
Any way I can help, let me know.
Instructions on how to fix archiving would be welcome.
The only solution I have for this is setting up Hypermail. My colleagues in Starcom can set up Hypermail for you, if you are running the mailing list on a Unix/Linux server and can give us SSH access. On one or two occasions when we will need something done as supervisor, we'll ask you to do it for us.
Let me know if this is interesting; we'll do it for the LUG.
regards, Shuvam
On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 04:49:40PM +0530, Philip S Tellis wrote:
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:49:40 +0530 (IST) From: Philip S Tellis philip@ncst.ernet.in To: Linux Users linuxers@mm.ilug-bom.org.in X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Subject: [Vote] blocking non-text messages
Should we block non-text messages on this list? State your opinion.
+1
I pay for my time on the internet. HTML mails -- No thanks!
Philip
Cheers Gautam
No. Why should we block non-text messages. Praveen.
Philip S Tellis philip@ncst.ernet.in wrote: Next LUG meet: 11 Oct 2003 around 4 pm - VJTI Mech Dept ------------------------------------------------------- Should we block non-text messages on this list? State your opinion.
Philip
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Bhargav Bhatt -
Clifford D'Mello -
Devdas Bhagat -
Gautam Mani -
Harshul Nayak (ealcatraz) -
J. T. D'souza -
Kapil Karekar -
Nachiketa Sadhu -
Nagarjuna G. -
Nikhil bhaskaran -
Philip S Tellis -
praveen shinde -
q u a s i -
Rajendra Prasad Murakonda -
Rakesh Tiwari -
Ravindra Jaju -
Sachin Rase -
Shuvam Misra -
Vinayakam Murugan